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The Sunshine Coast Case : Rail duplication Beerburrum to Nambour

Started by Fares_Fair, August 31, 2011, 22:23:31 PM

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Arnz

Quote from: Fares_Fair on January 16, 2016, 17:44:03 PM
A son has scored a job at Cooroy.
The first train of the day northbound in the morning departs Nambour at 11:26am!

So unfortunately, he must take to the highway on the car-centric Sunshine Coast.

#publictransport
#2tracks

More services required north of Nambour if we truly wish to encourage PT use.
Wonder how many others are in the same boat?

What about the 631 Bus to Noosaville via Yandina, Eumundi and Cooroy?

First bus leaves Nambour at 7:15am Weekdays and 7:10am on Weekends, arriving Cooroy at 7:56am Weekdays and 7:51am Weekends respectively.
Rgds,
Arnz

Unless stated otherwise, Opinions stated in my posts are those of my own view only.

Fares_Fair

Quote from: Arnz on January 16, 2016, 18:06:48 PM
Quote from: Fares_Fair on January 16, 2016, 17:44:03 PM
A son has scored a job at Cooroy.
The first train of the day northbound in the morning departs Nambour at 11:26am!

So unfortunately, he must take to the highway on the car-centric Sunshine Coast.

#publictransport
#2tracks

More services required north of Nambour if we truly wish to encourage PT use.
Wonder how many others are in the same boat?

What about the 631 Bus to Noosaville via Yandina, Eumundi and Cooroy?

First bus leaves Nambour at 7:15am Weekdays and 7:10am on Weekends, arriving Cooroy at 7:56am Weekdays and 7:51am Weekends respectively.

Thank you Arnz,
Appreciated.
He'd have to drive to Landsborough (but that's going backwards) or Nambour.
We did look into that but the times didn't suit his working hours of 8am and too far to walk from bus stop.
He's out along Lake MacDonald Drive
Regards,
Fares_Fair


ozbob

Sunday Mail 24th January 2016 page 28

Gridlocked.  We hear you

Half baked projects, have long term consequences ...
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Stillwater

Let us not forget that the majority of the SCL duplication to Nambour falls with the Fairfax electorate of Mr Clive Palmer, who will be contesting his seat again this year according to media reports.  In a bid to win the seat, maybe one or other of the major political parties will pledge to put money towards the duplication based on the freight task the line performs.  The deal could be that the feds pay for the track augmentation and the state pays for the railway station infrastructure. 

Could it be that the state government is preparing a North Coast Line Action Plan with a view to mounting the case for federal investment in a railway line that forms part of the National Transportation Network (the network of transport infrastructure that attracts federal funding) but which has not received any dollars since the network was proclaimed?  The federal money is being spent on the Bruce Highway instead.


verbatim9

Clive Palmer has done nothing for PT in this state. I don't think he would even sponsor a bus stop bench.

Fares_Fair

Concur, it is all but certain that Clive will be gone from Fairfax at the next election.
He has done nothing for his (my) electorate.

He won Fairfax by just 53 votes.

He has peeved off all the people at the former Hyatt Regency Coolum (now Palmer Resort) and is still in standoffs with time-share tenants.

He has peeved off the community in general with his treatment of his Nickel Refinery workers, 237 made redundant and likely to lose their redundancy entitlements to boot.

He 'donated' some $21 million from the Nickel Refinery to his political party over the past 5 or so years, the most recent donation of some $290k being paid out as recently as 31 December 2015 (though the actual date may well have been earlier).

Reports claim he is one of the least attending politicians to QT etc. in the Australian Parliament.

I think that Clive will receive some of his own medicine (singing bye bye) come the next election.
Those who live by the sword...


I approached Clive Palmer and all candidates at their candidate question time that was opened to the public.
I asked all the candidates about their stance on Sunshine Coast rail duplication.

After he gave what he thought was an answer (it was just a lot of waffle and didn't actually address the question), I approached him at the end of the session and his 2 big burly bodyguards as they were leaving, and said "excuse me, but you didn't actually answer my question." He then proceeded to reiterate the non-answer that was previously given.
I felt the spit hit my face - he was that close.


Finally, he has done nothing to put forward rail duplication at a federal level for his Fairfax constituents (and I am one of them).

I can only hope that whoever carries the mantle of Fairfax from the next election will pursue federal assistance for this most-needed project.
Regards,
Fares_Fair


#Metro

Negative people... have a problem for every solution. Posts are commentary and are not necessarily endorsed by RAIL Back on Track or its members.

Fares_Fair

He is obviously an astute businessman.. and he should stick to that (some say he still does, hence so little parliamentary attendance).

The Nickel Refinery woes are as a result of a downturn in the international markets for nickel, but the stripping of cash from the company to aid his political interests wasn't good business if you want to be a politician.

He also lives at the Gold Coast, as many journalists found out this week when camped outside his home and received unlawful stalking notices from lawyers.
He doesn't even reside in Fairfax.
Regards,
Fares_Fair


Stillwater

I wrote to Clive once about the SCL and received a form reply that it seems is sent to anyone who raises an issue with him, whether it be a pension matter or a pothole that needs filling.  I threw Clive's letter away.  From memory, it read something along the lines of: "Thank you for raising your concerns with me about issues that are vital to the electorate of Fairfax.  I am working hard to improve the lives of my constituents and all Australians.  Your concerns are important to me and I will seek to address them in my efforts as your Parliamentary representative."  The letter had a photocopied signature.  I got the impression that the office junior opens the morning mail and fires off the standard reply, without Mr Palmer being aware of the content, or caring about the content of incoming mail.

achiruel

Regarding funding, I think an equitable split would be Feds 80%/State 20% for the line itself, and the State to fund building of stations. I'm not sure if SCRC has any budget allocated for PT infrastructure, maybe they could tip in a few dollars too? Although tbh I'd rather see Council partly fund CAMCOS and the Sunshine Coast rapid transit in whatever form that takes.

Stillwater


One wonders whether the North Coast Line Action Plan, the existence of which was denied originally, will provide information that will be heeded, or will it be ignored, just like earlier studies, such as the Smooth Running Study, the Straight Track Study and the Land Freight External Cost Study.  They are more than a decade old.

There is a lot of churn when it comes to studies of the inadequacies of the Sunshine Coast Line and North Coast Line.

Acknowledgement is due to Dr Philip Laird for this synopsis:

Straight Track Study
The 'Straight Track Study' was completed for Queensland Transport and gives estimates of the additional freight train operating costs, track maintenance costs and external costs that result from track imposed speed constraints at locations with tight radius of curvature for a standard freight train moving between Landsborough and Townsville. Operating costs for slowing down freight trains are calculated using parameters from an earlier Smooth Running Study completed for Queensland Transport.

The main costs are those of the additional time taken by the crew, locomotives, and wagons, the cost of braking to reduce speed and the cost of the extra fuel needed for the train to regain speed. The cumulative effects of the speed constraints on a 100 km/h standard freight train between Landsborough and Townsville were found to be approximately $2600 per haul. Estimates of extra track maintenance costs from speed restrictions and estimates for increased maintenance costs on sections of track with tight radius curves were also derived from the Smooth Running Study. These costs were estimated as approximately $200 for each standard freight train trip between Landsborough and Townsville. For each tonne of line haul freight a more competitive rail operator could attract, external land freight transport costs would reduce by approximately $16 per tonne.

Dr Laird uses the calculations in the Smooth Running Study and the Land Freight External Cost Study to justify investment in the North Coast Line.

See summary in Appendices A and B to this paper.

http://atrf.info/papers/2004/2004_Laird_Michell.pdf

ozbob

The Sunshine Coast Daily --> Rail plan yet to be prioritised

Quote
THE Landsborough to Beerburrum rail duplication project was just three steps into an eight-step State Labor Government evaluation that would see it unlikely to be built in the lifetime of those reading this article according to Noosa MP Glen Elmes.

Mr Elmes said the project had been chosen unanimously by all Coast LNP members of parliament and candidates ahead of the last state election as the No.1 infrastructure priority.

He said $530 million had been allocated under the LNP's Strong Choices asset sale program rejected by voters.

Mr Elmes said while the LNP had a strategy to fund the project and the will to build it, the ALP had no plan other than pushing it further and further "out into the never, never".

He said rail duplication would take freight pressure off the Bruce Hwy.

However Mr Elmes said the Palaszczuk Government had no infrastructure plan for the state but was increasing the level of debt.

"Page 60 of the ALP policy platform called it a priority program at the end of 2014," he said.

"I've had three questions on notice about it and each time it gets pushed further out."

The State Government says the project's preliminary evaluation was approved and it would go forward for business case development and prioritised against other projects across Queensland.

In response to questions from Mr Elmes, Infrastructure Minister Jackie Trad said if the work received a favourable assessment, the State Government would seek federal funding.

Building Queensland would lead the development but the project would remain under the control of Transport and Main Roads.

A business case is expected to be completed by the end of this year.
Half baked projects, have long term consequences ...
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Stillwater

^^Mr Elmes is playing the politics around the SCL, not looking to solutions.  The most worrying words of the SCD report are contained in the last sentence: "A business case is expected to be completed by the end of the year."  That shows the snail's pace at which this project is proceeding.  Once the business case is finished by the end of 2016, the next phase involves comparing it against other projects throughout Queensland, and not just transport infrastructure projects, maybe even stadiums.  If all goes to plan, a funding application will be made to the feds (that is the intended financier) early in 2017, allowing for a possibility of a start on construction in 2017-18.  At the fastest rate at which government's work, a decision on whether to proceed is two years away, construction end probably four years beyond that.  So July 2020 the best possible scheduled date for a ribbon-cutting ceremony ... or it could be beyond our lifetimes, as Mr Elmes says.

Meanwhile, we are left wondering what is contained in the North Coast Line Action Plan.  The crucial word in the name is "action", but there is a dearth of that when it comes to the Sunshine Coast and its hopes for track duplication.

Stillwater

Interesting stuff .....

http://www.ranbury.com.au/work/north-coast-line-capacity-improvement-project

wonder what Ranbury found?

And even more curious ... http://www.rtbu.org.au/urgent_investment_needed_to_keep_north_coast_line_viable

Would the local media be interested in this? 

RTBU full report: https://d3n8a8pro7vhmx.cloudfront.net/rtbu/pages/134/attachments/original/1449723020/RTBU_QLD_State_Infrastructure_Plan_Feedback_V2.pdf?1449723020

Words from the report:

The level of investment in the North Coast Line is dwarfed by the investment in the Bruce Highway from both the State and Federal governments. Given that the North Coast Line and the Bruce Highway effectively compete for freight transport, the focus on upgrading road infrastructure will have a significant impact on the freight market for this corridor – with the inevitable loss of market share for rail. Further loss of market share threatens to undermine the viability of rail services on the North Coast Line.

Should these services become unviable, there will be a further modal shift to road transport, and a further need for road upgrades and maintenance expenditure.

Furthermore, a complete dependence on road transport along this corridor will leave Queenslanders with greater exposure to potential external shocks in petrol prices or supply.

RTBU rail operations members are involved in the movement of over 40 north bound general rail freight trains from SEQ to North Queensland costal centres with the 2 above rail operators (Aurizon and Pacific National Queensland).

On the basis that each of these trains can carry up to 100 Twenty Foot Equivalent containers (TEUs) there are approximately 200,000 loaded containers "north bound" intermodal (TEU container) movements a year on the NCL originating in SEQ. Generally TEU container movements are in both directions, so the total movements would almost be double, due to the repositioning of empty containers back to SEQ for reloading in SEQ or used for back loading generally of produce from the North Queensland. This equates to approximately 400,000 TEU movements per year, or 1,100 TEU's per day on a 24 hour basis.

The implications of the existing rail based SEQ – North Queensland intermodal freight movements shifting on to the road network would be significant. Transferring 400,000 TEU movements per year to road would require an additional 370 B-Doubles movements (assuming there is 3 TEU's per B-Double truck) per day, which would be 15 B-Doubles an hour or about a B-Double every 4 minutes on the Bruce Highway (one in either direction every 8 minutes). In reality, however, the extra trucks would not be evenly distributed over a 24 hour cycle, so the concentration of additional trucks would be considerably greater that this estimate. The consequences would be more and more trucks on the road networks in the inner urban areas around ports, industrial, logistics and warehousing precincts. The existing road network simply wouldn't be able to accommodate the additional transport task without creating a significant deterioration of transit time and reliability.



ozbob

Sunshine Coast Daily --> Track spokesman won't bail on Sunshine Coast rail

Quote
THE Fat Controller would've thrown the towel in years ago.

Thomas and his mates probably would've taken the single-line into the sunset too.

The North Coast Rail Line duplication, or lack thereof, remains on-track to keep going for a while yet but it won't stop Sunshine Coast Rail Back on Track spokesman Jeff Addison fighting for change.

A meeting with new Transport Minister Stirling Hinchliffe this week left Mr Addison buoyed at his willingness to listen, although he was far from convinced it would result in real action.

"It was good to open a dialogue," Mr Addison said.

Mr Addison again expressed his concerns over current plans which would see rail duplication from Beerburrum to Landsborough, but not the "most critical point of congestion" from Nambour to the south, although upgrades to that section have been mooted.

Those duplication plans hinge on whether a business case being developed by Building Queensland was approved and funded, with 2017 expected to be the earliest a decision on the business case could be made.

If that wasn't technical enough, it's also been made clear there are two separate issues affecting rail services on the Sunshine Coast.

From Nambour to Cairns the track is known as the North Coast Line, which is subject to a North Coast Action Plan currently being developed by the Department of Transport and Main Roads.

That Action Plan would look to leverage findings from the North Coast Line Capacity Improvement Study, the results of which state there is no "do nothing" approach if rail was to have a future in that corridor.

Right to Information documents obtained by the Daily indicated there had been no briefing notes, memos, emails or correspondence sent to or received from then-Transport Minister Jackie Trad's office by the Department of Transport and Main Roads between February 14 and November 11 last year.

Despite this, the North Coast Line and Beerburrum to Nambour rail upgrade projects featured third on the Draft State Infrastructure Plan's updates to the 2013 Infrastructure Priority List released in October, 2015.

A Department spokesman said DTMR "understands the importance of the North Coast rail line as a key freight and passenger rail corridor or Queensland" and explained they were currently developing a more detailed plan.

Mr Addison said despite the technical nature of the issues, he was encouraged by the meeting last week and noted Mr Hinchliffe seemed interested in the issues, but added he felt the State Government was still hesitant to address the problem.

Member for Glass House Andrew Powell said he believed duplication of the line from Beerburrum to Nambour as well as improved freight services north of Nambour both had to be prioritised for the region, to solve current traffic and transport congestion issues.
Half baked projects, have long term consequences ...
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Stillwater

These words from the Infrastructure Queensland website:

The business case for the Beerburrum to Nambour Rail Upgrade Project is investigating the duplication of the North Coast Line between Beerburrum and Landsborough on an improved alignment, and additional upgrades to the existing infrastructure between Landsborough and Nambour.

This section of the North Coast Line is approximately 40 kilometres in length and currently consists of a single bi-directional line, with passing loops at stations only.

The North Coast Line forms part of the rail corridor that falls within the Australian Government's National Land Transport Network. It facilitates transport for Citytrain and travel train services, as well as freight being transported to central and northern Queensland.

The project was included in the Queensland Government's recent submission to Infrastructure Australia for the Infrastructure Priority List.  Building Queensland, with the involvement of the Department of Transport and Main Roads, is leading the development of the business case for consideration by government.

The business case will be presented to government for consideration before an expected decision in 2017.

If approved and funded, the project will proceed to procurement.

Here is what we can take from the words:

The government position is no longer to duplicate to Nambour into the foreseeable future, probably 20 years.  It is duplication to Landsborough and 'enhancements' beyond that.  And those 'enhancements' will be to existing infrastructure, which suggests longer crossing loops.  Approval of the project, upon completion of the business case, does not necessarily mean that construction will happen.  'Project approval' and 'financial approval' are separate things.  The finance will come from the Federal Government, not the Queensland Government.


ozbob

Transport will get a lot worse before it gets any better sadly.

Not sure if the present Government will actually survive to 2017.  Which will mean start all over again, and again.

What happened to the hover craft ?    :P :o
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Stillwater

Today's SCD quotes Stirling Hinchliffe as saying the SCL duplication is "one of the top infrastructure projects the Palaszczuk Government has earmarked for federal government funding."


#Metro

^^ They have been saying that for years. How much is the Queensland Government in % contributing?

(tumbleweeds)
Negative people... have a problem for every solution. Posts are commentary and are not necessarily endorsed by RAIL Back on Track or its members.

Fares_Fair

Quote from: LD Transit on February 14, 2016, 15:42:10 PM
There has been some progress.

GC LRT extension was approved, for example.

It just shows how deeply dependant on the Federal Government the QLD Government has become, for both funding and planning

direction.

I still don't get why the Federal Government has an interest in Townsville Stadium.

It doesn't and shouldn't.
It's entirely a matter for the State Government - but they have no funding strategy to build anything.

Well, that said, their strategy is to ask the Federal Government to fund everything.
They are using money from the existing transport budget to build the $163 million Gold Coast rail duplication.
The State Govt have offered up $100 million towards the Townsville Stadium. I'm unaware of what that total cost may be.

Perversely, and that is not a typo, they have offered nothing as yet towards the Sunshine Coast rail duplication.
It is a legitimate Federal/State funding circumstance as it's a shared freight artery to Cairns.

An artery that the most recent report says is at risk of a future due to 'severe under-capitalisation' and the comparatively massive ($8 billion) of funding upgrades to the Bruce Highway while the NCL rail freight line is under-capitalised (funded).

Further in their effort to kill off rail freight they are reducing the design speed of the track from the current 160km/h (as built for Caboolture - Beerburrum) back to a measly 100 km/h. The Bruce Highway is 110 km/h.
So much for competition.



Everything else (rail transport infrastructure) is reliant upon federal funding.




Regards,
Fares_Fair


Arnz

Quote from: Fares_Fair on February 14, 2016, 16:44:31 PM
Further in their effort to kill off rail freight they are reducing the design speed of the track from the current 160km/h (as built for Caboolture - Beerburrum) back to a measly 100 km/h. The Bruce Highway is 110 km/h.

That's news to me (or everyone here). 

The 160km/h speed is intended for the tilts, not the Interurban passenger services (which are limited to 130km/h (IMU160s) or 140km/h (IMU100/120) anyway) or the freight locos/loco hauled Traveltrain services (which to my knowledge are capped at 100km/h anyway).
Rgds,
Arnz

Unless stated otherwise, Opinions stated in my posts are those of my own view only.

Fares_Fair

Quote from: Arnz on February 14, 2016, 17:18:51 PM
Quote from: Fares_Fair on February 14, 2016, 16:44:31 PM
Further in their effort to kill off rail freight they are reducing the design speed of the track from the current 160km/h (as built for Caboolture - Beerburrum) back to a measly 100 km/h. The Bruce Highway is 110 km/h.

That's news to me (or everyone here). 

The 160km/h speed is intended for the tilts, not the Interurban passenger services (which are limited to 130km/h (IMU160s) or 140km/h (IMU100/120) anyway) or the freight locos/loco hauled Traveltrain services (which to my knowledge are capped at 100km/h anyway).


It's in the North Coast Line Capacity Improvement Study - Final Report produced by Ranbury for TRANSLink - Dept of Transport and Main Roads, p137.
Section 28.3 SEQCI Conclusions and Comments
28.3.1
"Any duplication would likely include re-alignment to at least a 100kph standard, if not to a previously designed 160kph standard."


My posts here are more relevant to the Sunshine Coast Line forum, apologies ozbob.
Happy for them to be relocated under the appropriate thread: viz The Sunshine Coast Case : Rail duplication Beerburrum to Nambour

Thank you ozbob!
Regards,
Fares_Fair


#Metro

Fares_Fare, there was a image of a report you posted on twitter (I think), completed 2015. Do you have a link to the entire contents of that report in electronic form??

I would be interested in reading it.

Negative people... have a problem for every solution. Posts are commentary and are not necessarily endorsed by RAIL Back on Track or its members.

Fares_Fair

Quote from: LD Transit on February 14, 2016, 17:34:18 PM
Fares_Fare, there was a image of a report you posted on twitter (I think), completed 2015. Do you have a link to the entire contents of that report in electronic form??

I would be interested in reading it.

Sure LD
Regards,
Fares_Fair


kram0

Quote from: Fares_Fair on February 14, 2016, 17:28:36 PM
Quote from: Arnz on February 14, 2016, 17:18:51 PM
Quote from: Fares_Fair on February 14, 2016, 16:44:31 PM
Further in their effort to kill off rail freight they are reducing the design speed of the track from the current 160km/h (as built for Caboolture - Beerburrum) back to a measly 100 km/h. The Bruce Highway is 110 km/h.

That's news to me (or everyone here). 

The 160km/h speed is intended for the tilts, not the Interurban passenger services (which are limited to 130km/h (IMU160s) or 140km/h (IMU100/120) anyway) or the freight locos/loco hauled Traveltrain services (which to my knowledge are capped at 100km/h anyway).


It's in the North Coast Line Capacity Improvement Study - Final Report produced by Ranbury for TRANSLink - Dept of Transport and Main Roads, p137.
Section 28.3 SEQCI Conclusions and Comments
28.3.1
"Any duplication would likely include re-alignment to at least a 100kph standard, if not to a previously designed 160kph standard."


My posts here are more relevant to the Sunshine Coast Line forum, apologies ozbob.
Happy for them to be relocated under the appropriate thread: viz The Sunshine Coast Case : Rail duplication Beerburrum to Nambour

Thank you ozbob!

While all governments have there faults, Anna2 has no clue or ideas at all. This is a real worry moving forward for QLD.

Arnz

I can understand why some are preparing themselves for the worst (eg the 100km/h minimum if not 160km/h), but I'm also worried if they don't use the proposed alignment beyond Beerburrum from back in the 2009 project.  Instead the so called 'NCL report' from the current state government either ends up recommending a 'new' half-arsed alignment which sticks to the 100km/h minimum in the report, or worse, just stick a track next to the existing alignment, which does nothing for top-end speed at all.
Rgds,
Arnz

Unless stated otherwise, Opinions stated in my posts are those of my own view only.

Fares_Fair

Quote from: Arnz on February 14, 2016, 17:57:42 PM
I can understand why some are preparing themselves for the worst (eg the 100km/h minimum if not 160km/h), but I'm also worried if they don't use the proposed alignment beyond Beerburrum from back in the 2009 project, instead either going for a 'new' half-arsed alignment which sticks to the 100km/h minimum in the report, or worse, just stick a track next to the existing alignment, which does nothing for top-end speed at all.

Agree Arnz,
Regarding the reduction in speeds, it is confirmed in Table 21.1 on p123 of the report, where all of the 'new' time savings are based upon a 100kph line speed.

It's extraordinary stuff, reducing costs everywhere to leave an uncompetitive freight line that is literally haemorrhaging to death right now by lack of improvements compared to the Bruce Highway.
Freight paths out of Brisbane have reduced by 43.6% from 2007 - 2013 (7 years) p155 of NCLCIS Ranbury Report.
Freight volumes have decreased by 20% in past 8 years.

Further the current so-called 10 Year Action Plan (Draft), ALL 6 PAGES OF IT, is not even due to START for another 10 years.. all this Govt does is delay critical infrastructure!
Regards,
Fares_Fair


Old Northern Road

The line only needs to be designed for 140-160km/h running as far as Beerwah. North of that it is primarily a freight line so no reason to design for any faster than 100km/h, particularly if it saves money

Fares_Fair

People of Sunshine Coast deserve the same level of services as the Gold Coast, and that's minimum rail duplication and realignment and regrading to Nambour.

100kph makes it speed uncompetitive compared to the 110kph Bruce Highway
(to be effective it needs to be faster than the highway if it is to survive, I recognise that the Highway is not 110kph all the way to Cairns)
Regards,
Fares_Fair


Arnz

Parts of the existing single line between Glasshouse and Landsborough are already designed for 160km/h running (Tilts only) and 120km/h (all MUs). 

Saying that any future alignments and running speed north of Landsborough are dependent on whether the state government are going to scrap CAMCOS (the new 'Redcliffe' line and 'Maglev Bus' joke), or delay it in the never never like the Redcliffe line.  If the smallest of chances (or a miracle happens  :fo:) that CAMCOS even gets up at all, then I can understand if future state governments lean towards keeping any future duplicated alignments north of Landsborough at 100km/h.

Saying that I do agree with FF, minimum realignment to Landsborough (if not Nambour) is required from both a passenger and freight perspective, especially if CAMCOS becomes the 'new Redcliffe line' and the 'Maglev Bus' joke. 

In my opinion, you'd probably see 20 'Maglev Buses to Caboolture' and another 10 'Maglev Buses to Doomben' operational before any form of CAMCOS beyond Beerwah even gets constructed  :fo:.  Would love to be proven wrong on the 'Maglev Bus' and 'CAMCOS' statements by this or any future state governments before I turn 50.
Rgds,
Arnz

Unless stated otherwise, Opinions stated in my posts are those of my own view only.

Stillwater

This theory assumes that $3.2 billion actually exists for duplication between Beerburrum and Nambour.  There isn't any money, but that doesn't get in the way of what appears to be some creative thinking -- duplicate to Landsborough only (at a cost of about $550m), then construct what are now being termed 'enhancements' to Nambour.  Mention of duplication to Nambour has disappeared from the government's websites and glossy brochures, replaced by reference to 'enhancements'.  A post by Arnz seems to confirm this.  That involves an operational speed reduction to 100 kph for the Landsborough-Nambour stretch, with parts of the current alignment (not the new) utilised for long passing loops. 

This, so the theory goes, frees up money from the $3.2 billion pool of imaginary dollars (about $2.5 billion) to spend on track improvements further north, in response to the NCLCIS findings.  The state government seems to have switched its thinking from duplication to Nambour to meet passenger rail demand to planning enhancements for the entire line to Townsville, presumably because that is the best way for presenting a case for federal funding assistance and stretching out the benefits for the entire NCL to Townsville, given that the feds have a rail freight focus. 

#Metro

Negative people... have a problem for every solution. Posts are commentary and are not necessarily endorsed by RAIL Back on Track or its members.

Old Northern Road

Quote from: Fares_Fair on February 14, 2016, 18:22:29 PM
People of Sunshine Coast deserve the same level of services as the Gold Coast, and that's minimum rail duplication and realignment and regrading to Nambour.

100kph makes it speed uncompetitive compared to the 110kph Bruce Highway
(to be effective it needs to be faster than the highway if it is to survive, I recognise that the Highway is not 110kph all the way to Cairns)
Duplicating and realigning the line to Nambour doesn't give the people of the Sunshine Coast the same level of services as the Gold Coast. Only CAMCOS will do that.

Arnz

Quote from: Old Northern Road on February 14, 2016, 18:43:34 PM
Quote from: Fares_Fair on February 14, 2016, 18:22:29 PM
People of Sunshine Coast deserve the same level of services as the Gold Coast, and that's minimum rail duplication and realignment and regrading to Nambour.

100kph makes it speed uncompetitive compared to the 110kph Bruce Highway
(to be effective it needs to be faster than the highway if it is to survive, I recognise that the Highway is not 110kph all the way to Cairns)
Duplicating and realigning the line to Nambour doesn't give the people of the Sunshine Coast the same level of services as the Gold Coast. Only CAMCOS will do that.

Problem is 'CAMCOS' is the new 'Redcliffe line' and the new butt of jokes, plus a likely lower BCR that is less likely to attract any sort of federal funding (being a proposed passenger only line).
Rgds,
Arnz

Unless stated otherwise, Opinions stated in my posts are those of my own view only.

Fares_Fair

Quote from: Stillwater on February 14, 2016, 18:38:16 PM
This theory assumes that $3.2 billion actually exists for duplication between Beerburrum and Nambour.  There isn't any money, but that doesn't get in the way of what appears to be some creative thinking -- duplicate to Landsborough only (at a cost of about $550m), then construct what are now being termed 'enhancements' to Nambour.  Duplication to Nambour has disappeared from the government's websites and glossy brochures.  A post by Arnz seems to confirm this.  That involves an operational speed reduction to 100 kph for the Landsborough-Nambour stretch, with parts of the current alignment (not the new) utilised for long passing loops. 

This, so the theory goes, frees up money from the $3.2 billion pool of imaginary dollars (about $2.5 billion) to spend on track improvements further north, in response to the NCLCIS findings.  The state government seems to have switched its thinking from duplication to Nambour to meet passenger rail demand to planning enhancements for the entire line to Townsville, presumably because that is the best way for presenting a case for federal funding assistance and stretching out the benefits for the entire NCL to Townsville, given that the feds have a rail freight focus.

I note your point and understand the State Government position in doing so..  nothing (rail infrastructure) gets built in Queensland unless it gets federal funds. It's as stark as that.
The exception to this is the Gold Coast rail duplication from Coomera to Helensvale at a cost of $163 million, funded from within the existing TMR budget.
I wonder what projects have been dumped to assure this money?

The problem is that there is just no urgency to get it done.

The 6 page proposed NCL Action Plan (Draft) announced by Deputy Premier Jackie Trad in late October 2015, is a 10 year plan - true, but what she didn't say is that it is not due to start for at least another 10 years and requires ~$2.5 billion to improve the freight line through bridge works, rail duplications and alignments and passing loop extensions and a north side freight terminal at Beerburrum (for $160 million)

When the Gold Coast wanted Light rail, Annastacia can get Malcolm Turnbull up here to trumpet it.
When the Sunshine Coast needs something, it gets put into a prolonged business case - now no results due until mid-2017.

Regards,
Fares_Fair


#Metro


It is all just too slow. In Sweden, Germany or France, these lines would be served by high-speed trains (200-250km/hour).

It isn't competitive with the Bruce Hwy. Add in stops (slower) and passenger waiting time at platforms (30-60 minutes), and it just isn't competitive vs car.

PT needs to be first choice. Faster rail would do that. The current rail network isn't good for this task.
Negative people... have a problem for every solution. Posts are commentary and are not necessarily endorsed by RAIL Back on Track or its members.

#Metro

Get better trains, proper (standard gauge?) track and good speed.
I don't know is there is SG on the NCL but it would allow freight from interstate to go further.

SJ X2000 trains, description from another thread

Quote"X 2000 X2 or SJ 2000 a dear child has many names. It is certain a long history with the name of this train. Acceleration of the train is with 5 wagons 0-200 km / h approximately 3 min. and 41 sec. The train reached a speed of 276 km / h."




Pop. Gothenburg 500 000 approx.
Pop. Sunshine Coast 300 000 approx.
Negative people... have a problem for every solution. Posts are commentary and are not necessarily endorsed by RAIL Back on Track or its members.

Fares_Fair

No, the North Coast Line is narrow gauge 3' 6" (1067mm).


p11 NCLCIS by Ranbury dated February 2015


6. The SEQRFTS also identified that the current land-locked narrow gauge intermodal terminals at Acacia Ridge and Moolabin have limited expansion capacity for intrastate NCL freight, cannot readily be upgraded to directly handle longer trains, and could run out of capacity within 10 years if the forecast  demand was realised. A new intermodal terminal located on the northside of Brisbane, remote from most of the constraints of Citytrain scheduling and infrastructure maintenance closures (impacting availability within the Brisbane metro network), would be highly desirable, and outweigh the extra roadhaul leg from the currently located customer base. A purpose designed Northern Freight Terminal would have significant advantages for operation of the NCL and on the future competitiveness of rail, from a reliability and total transit time perspective. It could also provide a catalyst for the development of a logistics precinct with co-location of customer Distribution Centres, adding further to the competitiveness of rail on the NCL.
Regards,
Fares_Fair


#Metro

It's just too slow. 100 km/hour, 130 km/hour is not fast enough.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ICE_4_(Deutsche_Bahn)

QuoteThe K3 trains are to be for Germany, Austria and Switzerland, 12 of the K1 trains are to be operated into the Netherlands.[17]

On 5 March 2013, DB announced that it had approved a 12 car 250 km/h train configuration that would raise capacity over, and replace in the base order, the existing 10 car train - seating capacity would increase from 724 seats to 830 seats. The order was altered in expectation of growing ridership for DB's long distance services.[1]

Negative people... have a problem for every solution. Posts are commentary and are not necessarily endorsed by RAIL Back on Track or its members.

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