Which routes should be operated by artics all day Mon-Fri

[somebody]

I think: 66, 130, 111.

150 would only make sense on the current route.  If it is split up, then it wouldn't be necessary.

200/201 could be considered also but these may have to come from Garden City (unless Carina can fit artics).

[SurfRail]

200/201 could be considered also but these may have to come from Garden City (unless Carina can fit artics).

As of Monday, 200s and 222s and some other runs are being operated by Garden City, meaning gas buses are now back as a fixture on Old Cleveland Road. 

Garden City only has 6 artics left, however the 60+ 14.5m Volvos based there actually have a higher carrying capacity and are being used already - but obviously not on every service.

[somebody]

Hmm, I'd much prefer the 14.5m buses as a passenger.  The artics are particularly annoying when you are only going a short distance without a middle door.

[somebody]

I'd wonder if the 14.5m buses could do the 200/201 routes?  I'm pretty sure they aren't a problem on the 111 or 66 routes of course, and I doubt a problem on the 130.

[Mr X]

Definitely 66, 111, 130, 140, 150, 160

[dwb]

Hmm, I'd much prefer the 14.5m buses as a passenger.  The artics are particularly annoying when you are only going a short distance without a middle door.

+1

Personally I hate the artics due to their internal layout and doors. If they had an extra door, and on at least one side only 1 seat not two with extra aisle space, perhaps I'd like them more.

[somebody]

Do you think TransLink are considering splitting the 150?

Not that I am aware of.

[Golliwog]

109 needs it. And usually is already, but you do get the occasional normal bus.

[somebody]

109 needs it. And usually is already, but you do get the occasional normal bus.

I use the 109 quite often, although after 9am, and I don't think I've ever had to stand except in the PM peak.

What is really needed is greater train frequency in the counter peak.

Definitely 66, 111, 130, 140, 150, 160

Not so sure about the 160.  That carries few pax O/B whenever I've seen it, perhaps I/B in the AM peak.

[Mr X]

It could be merged with the 111 to form an artic-operated BUZ?

[O_128]

444?

[somebody]

444?

No.  The KGSBS stop won't fit artics, and you would probably know my opinion that the 444 shouldn't use KGSBS at all.

[Golliwog]

444?

No.  The KGSBS stop won't fit artics, and you would probably know my opinion that the 444 shouldn't use KGSBS at all.

...so if the KGSBS won't fit artics, and you don't think the 444 should be in KGSBS, why no artic for the 444?

[somebody]

444?

No.  The KGSBS stop won't fit artics, and you would probably know my opinion that the 444 shouldn't use KGSBS at all.

...so if the KGSBS won't fit artics, and you don't think the 444 should be in KGSBS, why no artic for the 444?

It wouldn't fit in QSBS B either without fouling the stop behind.

Good question though.

[Jonno]

Sounds like a world-class system to me

[Arnz]

Most Toowong drivers (if any at all) are not trained to drive artics either.  Unless if 444s started being operated by G or W, don't expect to see artics on the 444 anytime soon.

[somebody]

444?

No.  The KGSBS stop won't fit artics, and you would probably know my opinion that the 444 shouldn't use KGSBS at all.

...so if the KGSBS won't fit artics, and you don't think the 444 should be in KGSBS, why no artic for the 444?

It wouldn't fit in QSBS B either without fouling the stop behind.

Good question though.

Further to this, even if you used street stops (or perhaps different stops in QSBS) for the 444 to allow artics, I say that the route doesn't need a capacity upgrade.  The problem is that all the other routes which do the same route to Indooroopilly are ignored O/B due to the ridiculous city stop locations.  Similarly the 88 is ignored I/B due to not serving Indooroopilly interchange.

[Golliwog]

Further to this, even if you used street stops (or perhaps different stops in QSBS) for the 444 to allow artics, I say that the route doesn't need a capacity upgrade.  The problem is that all the other routes which do the same route to Indooroopilly are ignored O/B due to the ridiculous city stop locations.  Similarly the 88 is ignored I/B due to not serving Indooroopilly interchange.

Fair point. I'd agree that there is plenty of available capacity in the other routes, so something for give them a better common stop/adjacent stops would be good. Would having them all serve stops on Adelaide St outside KGSBS work, and allow you to keep 444 in KGSBS? You can't wait for both, but they're close enough that you can make a choice when you get to KGS.

[somebody]

Further to this, even if you used street stops (or perhaps different stops in QSBS) for the 444 to allow artics, I say that the route doesn't need a capacity upgrade.  The problem is that all the other routes which do the same route to Indooroopilly are ignored O/B due to the ridiculous city stop locations.  Similarly the 88 is ignored I/B due to not serving Indooroopilly interchange.

Fair point. I'd agree that there is plenty of available capacity in the other routes, so something for give them a better common stop/adjacent stops would be good. Would having them all serve stops on Adelaide St outside KGSBS work, and allow you to keep 444 in KGSBS? You can't wait for both, but they're close enough that you can make a choice when you get to KGS.

I don't think that would be enough.

[Golliwog]

Further to this, even if you used street stops (or perhaps different stops in QSBS) for the 444 to allow artics, I say that the route doesn't need a capacity upgrade.  The problem is that all the other routes which do the same route to Indooroopilly are ignored O/B due to the ridiculous city stop locations.  Similarly the 88 is ignored I/B due to not serving Indooroopilly interchange.

Fair point. I'd agree that there is plenty of available capacity in the other routes, so something for give them a better common stop/adjacent stops would be good. Would having them all serve stops on Adelaide St outside KGSBS work, and allow you to keep 444 in KGSBS? You can't wait for both, but they're close enough that you can make a choice when you get to KGS.

I don't think that would be enough.

But would it be better than the current set up?

[somebody]

But would it be better than the current set up?

I guess, but it would still be needless mediocrity.

[Mr X]

If Indooroopilly was a proper integrated TOD then we wouldn't need artics on the 444! Trains would run every 5-10 mins and people would be seemlessly transfered between nodes in ONE interchange.

[somebody]

If Indooroopilly was a proper integrated TOD then we wouldn't need artics on the 444! Trains would run every 5-10 mins and people would be seemlessly transfered between nodes in ONE interchange.

The point you are missing is that even if such infrastructure was built there would be no upgrade to the service level.

[Mr X]

The point you are missing is that even if such infrastructure was built there would be no upgrade to the service level.

If such an upgrade happened people would be able to move from bus -> train easily, rather than this wishy washy "walk down the hill" set up we have currently. THEN the buses can be terminated. You'd agree not every bus from Kenmore should go to the CBD, yes?

[somebody]

The point you are missing is that even if such infrastructure was built there would be no upgrade to the service level.

If such an upgrade happened people would be able to move from bus -> train easily, rather than this wishy washy "walk down the hill" set up we have currently.

So what?  There would be no service improvement.

You'd agree not every bus from Kenmore should go to the CBD, yes?

Well, some might go to UQ.  Unless there is no worse than a 8/hour service I cannot support an interchange idea.

[Mr X]

Well, some might go to UQ.  Unless there is no worse than a 8/hour service I cannot support an interchange idea.

That's the point. Terminate these buses at Indooroopilly to interchange to a TRAIN to the city. = less buses stick in congestion on Coro Drive. Retain 412 and 444 to keep the bus connectivity to areas not near the train.

Do the same at Garden City and Griffith University for the 130/140/150 and swap these people onto high frequency high capacity vehicles (or trains/metro) into the CBD. None of this "every bus to the city via South Bank" business.

[somebody]

Well, some might go to UQ.  Unless there is no worse than a 8/hour service I cannot support an interchange idea.

That's the point. Terminate these buses at Indooroopilly to interchange to a TRAIN to the city. = less buses stick in congestion on Coro Drive. Retain 412 and 444 to keep the bus connectivity to areas not near the train.

Do the same at Garden City and Griffith University for the 130/140/150 and swap these people onto high frequency high capacity vehicles (or trains/metro) into the CBD. None of this "every bus to the city via South Bank" business.

No, you are missing my point.  Even on this corridor there would be not enough demand from all the buses to require an increase in frequency.  Same on Mains Rd.  There is no such corridor.

Thinking that an increase in patronage would cause an increase in frequency is completely missing the political realities.

Until there is a political policy to attempt to grow train patronage, there will be no improvement in frequencies.

Forced interchange is just barking up the wrong tree.

EDIT: Let me put it another way: How many people do you think are carried by the 4xx beyond Indooroopilly?  And how much empty space do you think is carried on the current trains?