BUZ 385 - A bus stop at Caxton Please!

[#Metro]

Just an issue with BUZ 385- if you catch that bus and you want to go to Caxton St Restaurants the 1st bus stop isn't until after Suncorp Stadium which means a loooong walk!
So if there could be an earlier stop so that people could actually get off where the restaurants are, that would be great! I think there already is one such stop but the BUZ does not
stop there??

[Golliwog]

I think I know the stop you talk about. How far is the walk to Caxton St from Roma St? Isn't that part of why they built that pedestrian bridge across the train line?

[somebody]

It's only a 10 minute walk from Roma St.  Not sure if I support this one.  375, 379, 380, 381 can all be used heading towards Caxton St, but only 375 is useful away from it.

This is where an all stops BUZ 375 (Bardon side) comes in.  Perhaps a different brand for all stops, although it's already been done with the 199.

The other point is that all 4 of those routes when heading westbound should enter the busway at Turbot St to serve Roma St station.  Obviously that wouldn't apply if the 375 is broken up as the Bardon side would need to serve KGSBS.  With the 350/352 change done recently, a precedent has finally been set which should allow that.

[AnonymouslyBad]

I'm all for it in this particular case. Caxton St is a significant destination, but it has the problem of being "walkable" from a number of places but not walkable enough from any of them. It's a solid 10 minutes in any direction to reach decent public transport.

Even by BUZ standards, it's quite a distance from Roma St to Paddington so an extra stop in between would be okay I think.

[Golliwog]

But the problem with Caxton St is it's only 3 lanes wide until just before Hale St isn't it?

[SurfRail]

But the problem with Caxton St is it's only 3 lanes wide until just before Hale St isn't it?

There is an outbound stop near Harry's "Fine" Foods isn't there?  You could always use that, and add in an inbound stop on the bus lane without indenting, because large volumes of people would not be using it in the inbound peak when congestion would prevent that being feasible.

[somebody]

But the problem with Caxton St is it's only 3 lanes wide until just before Hale St isn't it?

There is an outbound stop near Harry's "Fine" Foods isn't there?  You could always use that, and add in an inbound stop on the bus lane without indenting, because large volumes of people would not be using it in the inbound peak when congestion would prevent that being feasible.

If you wanted to get off there on a 379/380/381 you would have to get stroppy with the driver.  Not sure about the 375.  They always sail past it even after the bell has been pressed. "Windmill Pizza" is the stop name.  I find it not worth an argument to save a 100m walk.

[dwb]

Just an issue with BUZ 385- if you catch that bus and you want to go to Caxton St Restaurants the 1st bus stop isn't until after Suncorp Stadium which means a loooong walk!
So if there could be an earlier stop so that people could actually get off where the restaurants are, that would be great! I think there already is one such stop but the BUZ does not
stop there??

I strongly disagree with this suggestion, the walk from Roma Street to Caxton is not bad, particularly in the cool of night which is presumably the time most people go to Caxton St. There are other options if you want to go to Roma St, for example the 375.

If any bus improvement in this area is suggested, it should be an inbound bus lane on Caxton St between and Hale St and Petrie St to improve reliability and travel times for 385, 374/5, 382/3 to increase efficiency of operation.

Ed. this would require removing the left parking lane on Caxton St.

[Golliwog]

Just an issue with BUZ 385- if you catch that bus and you want to go to Caxton St Restaurants the 1st bus stop isn't until after Suncorp Stadium which means a loooong walk!
So if there could be an earlier stop so that people could actually get off where the restaurants are, that would be great! I think there already is one such stop but the BUZ does not
stop there??

I strongly disagree with this suggestion, the walk from Roma Street to Caxton is not bad, particularly in the cool of night which is presumably the time most people go to Caxton St. There are other options if you want to go to Roma St, for example the 375.

If any bus improvement in this area is suggested, it should be an inbound bus lane on Caxton St between and Hale St and Petrie St to improve reliability and travel times for 385, 374/5, 382/3 to increase efficiency of operation.

Ed. this would require removing the left parking lane on Caxton St.

I support this. It kind of fits in with the whole "Transitways" thing in Connecting SEQ as well.

[somebody]

I support this. It kind of fits in with the whole "Transitways" thing in Connecting SEQ as well.

Which do you support:  The suggestion, or the strong disagreement?

[#Metro]

I'd like to see a bus stop there. Not everyone wants to backtrack from Suncorp Stadium or Roma street up stairs or hills.

[dwb]

I'd like to see a bus stop there. Not everyone wants to backtrack from Suncorp Stadium or Roma street up stairs or hills.

There is an elevator.

The negatives implications of your suggestion to add a further stop so close between two stops on the 385 outweigh the positive.

As Simon has already identified drivers (and quietly, passengers too) look at you with daggers if you get off the windmill stop (cos its normally one lazy passenger who displaced another passenger and then slowed the whole bus down by 60-90 seconds).  For the whole 2 years (or whatever close to that it's partner stop just before entering busway at skew st was closed, there wasn't much of an issue either. There would be few inbound passengers and any outbound passengers (who should really be walkers) would to a large extent be taking away seats from those living furhter out (including Paddington itself all the way to the gap would be displaced) and delaying the service. As identified there are already 374/5 and I believe other Musgrave Rd bound routes that stop on Petrie Tce. 385 BUZ should remain predominantly a limited stops service here.

[AnonymouslyBad]

Caxton St is a significant precinct, which means it should be serviced by BUZ. The "core frequent network" is supposed to help people get convenient access to destinations, not just be a commuter service that's a bit faster. That's the whole point of having a visible, legible network of high-frequency buses.

It would mean the spacing is a little less than usual, but varying stop locations to be most convenient to the key destinations is standard practice. Even on busways. South Bank is entirely walkable from Cultural Centre or Mater Hill, but would anybody ever suggest closing South Bank station? Or even having the high frequency routes skip it? Of course not, it's ludicrous. I know South Bank is a larger trip generator, but - "walkable" does not mean "convenient", and the average commuter's expectations for a destination on the city fringe vs. local stops out in the suburbs are not the same.

I think I'd be less supportive of a stop on Caxton St if it were actually a nice walk to Roma St, it's not that far on a map but IMO it's not an attractive prospect at all. If it were, people would be routinely catching public transport and making that walk, but judging by the amount of parking and taxis - nobody does.

[somebody]

I still think this task is much better performed by a 375 at BUZ frequency.

[Golliwog]

I support this. It kind of fits in with the whole "Transitways" thing in Connecting SEQ as well.

Which do you support:  The suggestion, or the strong disagreement?

The suggestion of the bus lane bit. Maybe the disagreement as well, though I've never done either option so can't really comment.

[dwb]

I still think this task is much better performed by a 375 at BUZ frequency.

I'd love a 375 BUZ Simon, but it would seem a little bit of overkill/supply when I believe others are worse off.

I'd rather see 374 retasked, but you well know my opinion on that one!

Besides, at it's highest frequency the 375 is already every 10mins (of course not on weekends!)

[dwb]

Caxton St is a significant precinct, which means it should be serviced by BUZ. The "core frequent network" is supposed to help people get convenient access to destinations, not just be a commuter service that's a bit faster. That's the whole point of having a visible, legible network of high-frequency buses.

It would mean the spacing is a little less than usual, but varying stop locations to be most convenient to the key destinations is standard practice. Even on busways. South Bank is entirely walkable from Cultural Centre or Mater Hill, but would anybody ever suggest closing South Bank station? Or even having the high frequency routes skip it? Of course not, it's ludicrous. I know South Bank is a larger trip generator, but - "walkable" does not mean "convenient", and the average commuter's expectations for a destination on the city fringe vs. local stops out in the suburbs are not the same.

I think I'd be less supportive of a stop on Caxton St if it were actually a nice walk to Roma St, it's not that far on a map but IMO it's not an attractive prospect at all. If it were, people would be routinely catching public transport and making that walk, but judging by the amount of parking and taxis - nobody does.

Having lived in Paddington quite a few people do actually walk it, and from much further than Barracks (for example well past Paddo Hotel), it's about a 35-40min walk to Queen St.... really not that far!

We should be concentrating on making walkable destinations walkable, not destroying the efficiency of our bus network to cater to walk trips!

WRT to "destinations", I fully agree, there should be better services... but this would not the be the first "destination" I'd add if I were to add another stop on 385 route.

Also, it'd be zone 1, so you'd likely exacerbate issues at the zone boundary which I don't think is a good idea.

[#Metro]

I challenge people to get out of Roma Street busway and a) either walk through Roma Street Parklands in the dead of night or b) walk out of Roma Street station, up Roma Street, up the funny big stairwell they have there, through the barracks and then on to Caxton. or c) Get the bus all the way to Suncorp Stadium and then backtrack.

[dwb]

I challenge people to get out of Roma Street busway and a) either walk through Roma Street Parklands in the dead of night or b) walk out of Roma Street station, up Roma Street, up the funny big stairwell they have there, through the barracks and then on to Caxton. or c) Get the bus all the way to Suncorp Stadium and then backtrack.

Unless I ride my bike or a citycycle this is exactly what I do. The topography is not that bad. There are some bad road crossings/ped priority missing... for example outbound left side slip lane Upper Roma St/Petrie Tce and on the right side outbound the drivewayS for the transit centre, or the almost constant green left turn at Castlemaine St off Caxton/Given Tce (due to Go Between Bridge!), however there are many places in Brisbane that I can think of that are much much worse to walk!

[Mr X]

Trying to cross Stanley St East, East Brisbane at peak hour = death wish

[somebody]

I'd love a 375 BUZ Simon, but it would seem a little bit of overkill/supply when I believe others are worse off.

I'd rather see 374 retasked, but you well know my opinion on that one!

Besides, at it's highest frequency the 375 is already every 10mins (of course not on weekends!)

Re: overkill, I don't think so at all.  It already runs every 15 minutes weekday daytimes and 10 minutes in peak.  Just add a few evening and weekend trips and you will see a patronage increase on weekends.  Also get rid of the awful Herschel St route.  It sucks, and prevents it from having common city stops with the 385.  I guess that means it needs to be broken up, but those are the breaks.

Re: highest frequency, Indeed.  The peak service and the daytime weekday service is already at the BUZ level.

I challenge people to get out of Roma Street busway and a) either walk through Roma Street Parklands in the dead of night or b) walk out of Roma Street station, up Roma Street, up the funny big stairwell they have there, through the barracks and then on to Caxton. or c) Get the bus all the way to Suncorp Stadium and then backtrack.

I also have done these things, even in the rain.

Trying to cross Stanley St East, East Brisbane at peak hour = death wish

That's a bit of a random comment in this thread isn't it?  Did you post it to the wrong thread?

[dwb]

Re: overkill, I don't think so at all.  It already runs every 15 minutes weekday daytimes and 10 minutes in peak.  Just add a few evening and weekend trips and you will see a patronage increase on weekends.  Also get rid of the awful Herschel St route.  It sucks, and prevents it from having common city stops with the 385.  I guess that means it needs to be broken up, but those are the breaks.

Re: highest frequency, Indeed.  The peak service and the daytime weekday service is already at the BUZ level.

To be honest I hadn't realised this, I'd always sort of had in my mind it was half hourly or hourly (as that is when I try to catch it!). I still really think the route needs to go to the Valley and shouldn't terminate at City... if you took it to/from Valley, then I could live with it being broken up into two... well really the 376 already exists, you could probably just boost that.

To reiterate, terminating in the city would be a mistake from my perspective, I catch it a lot for recreational purposes across town and I know others do to.

Perhaps it could exit busway at Turbot St and use Turbot St to the valley (or alternatively go through KGS and turn left into William left into Elizabeth, and then come back via Ann St, or perhaps even Charlotte (with stops at Eagle St).... could probably do something similar with 382/3 too.

Trying to cross Stanley St East, East Brisbane at peak hour = death wish

That's a bit of a random comment in this thread isn't it?  Did you post it to the wrong thread?

I think that was just an example of poor walkability.

[Mr X]

That's a bit of a random comment in this thread isn't it?  Did you post it to the wrong thread?

It was in response to dwb's comment "however there are many places in Brisbane that I can think of that are much much worse to walk!" 

[AnonymouslyBad]

I still think this task is much better performed by a 375 at BUZ frequency.

Agreed. This would be fine, I'm just not sure what the prospect of it ever happening is. The 375 would need to become truly BUZ frequency, i.e. including nights and weekends, but without actually becoming a BUZ. Funding a massive frequency boost probably isn't as attractive without the opportunity to slap a triumphant BUZ label all over it. But if that were to happen, I'd be all for it. As long as Caxton gets high frequency service.

[somebody]

I still think this task is much better performed by a 375 at BUZ frequency.

Agreed. This would be fine, I'm just not sure what the prospect of it ever happening is. The 375 would need to become truly BUZ frequency, i.e. including nights and weekends, but without actually becoming a BUZ. Funding a massive frequency boost probably isn't as attractive without the opportunity to slap a triumphant BUZ label all over it. But if that were to happen, I'd be all for it. As long as Caxton gets high frequency service.

Why can't it become a BUZ?  They need to solve the problem of a BUZ missing a street stop which another BUZ serves with the 333/330 when the 330 becomes a BUZ.

[dwb]

I still think this task is much better performed by a 375 at BUZ frequency.

Agreed. This would be fine, I'm just not sure what the prospect of it ever happening is. The 375 would need to become truly BUZ frequency, i.e. including nights and weekends, but without actually becoming a BUZ. Funding a massive frequency boost probably isn't as attractive without the opportunity to slap a triumphant BUZ label all over it. But if that were to happen, I'd be all for it. As long as Caxton gets high frequency service.

They serve different catchments, I agree with Simon, why can't it become a BUZ, much like 196/199.

[AnonymouslyBad]

196 and 199 are short, so they can get away with all stops. But that's not the norm for BUZ, nor should it be.

The 375 is a much longer route, isn't it? Or at least the times I've caught it it's seemed much longer, not to mention unreliable - though I haven't caught it often. But just putting a bus on every 15 minutes does not a BUZ make, not that there's anything wrong with putting a bus on every 15 minutes regardless!

If it's actually as short as the 196 that's fair enough. I also wouldn't put it past BT to just slap a BUZ label on anyway.

[somebody]

375 is about twice as long as the 199 - 20km vs 9km roughly.  But if it is BUZed, I would presume it would be broken up to get it into KGSBS, especially the Bardon side.  That's they way they roll isn't it?  I guess the reduction in frequency between the Valley and RBH is a real problem with putting the Stafford side into KGSBS.  Doesn't mean it wouldn't happen though.

[SurfRail]

375 is about twice as long as the 199 - 20km vs 9km roughly.  But if it is BUZed, I would presume it would be broken up to get it into KGSBS, especially the Bardon side.  That's they way they roll isn't it?  I guess the reduction in frequency between the Valley and RBH is a real problem with putting the Stafford side into KGSBS.  Doesn't mean it wouldn't happen though.

I'd be very surprised if we ended up with logical outcomes like 204 in the QSBS, 375 in KGS etc.  There's something in network planning precepts here (which you identify frequently) that says you can't mix all stops services with expresses at CBD bus facilities...

[somebody]

375 is about twice as long as the 199 - 20km vs 9km roughly.  But if it is BUZed, I would presume it would be broken up to get it into KGSBS, especially the Bardon side.  That's they way they roll isn't it?  I guess the reduction in frequency between the Valley and RBH is a real problem with putting the Stafford side into KGSBS.  Doesn't mean it wouldn't happen though.

I'd be very surprised if we ended up with logical outcomes like 204 in the QSBS, 375 in KGS etc.  There's something in network planning precepts here (which you identify frequently) that says you can't mix all stops services with expresses at CBD bus facilities...

There is also something against having "expresses" with BUZes.

The question is: what should our response be?  This attitude is just daft!

[AnonymouslyBad]

375 is about twice as long as the 199 - 20km vs 9km roughly.  But if it is BUZed, I would presume it would be broken up to get it into KGSBS, especially the Bardon side.  That's they way they roll isn't it?  I guess the reduction in frequency between the Valley and RBH is a real problem with putting the Stafford side into KGSBS.  Doesn't mean it wouldn't happen though.

IMO Adelaide St would be fine as it is still connects to KGSBS. Not sure if TL would see things the same way, but since the "all BUZes must service Cultural Centre" idea was abandoned it seems to have become a free for all (e.g. 412).

I don't think I'd like to see the 375 broken up, actually, unless the through route is beyond saving in terms of reliability.

[somebody]

375 is about twice as long as the 199 - 20km vs 9km roughly.  But if it is BUZed, I would presume it would be broken up to get it into KGSBS, especially the Bardon side.  That's they way they roll isn't it?  I guess the reduction in frequency between the Valley and RBH is a real problem with putting the Stafford side into KGSBS.  Doesn't mean it wouldn't happen though.

IMO Adelaide St would be fine as it is still connects to KGSBS. Not sure if TL would see things the same way, but since the "all BUZes must service Cultural Centre" idea was abandoned it seems to have become a free for all (e.g. 412).

I don't think I'd like to see the 375 broken up, actually, unless the through route is beyond saving in terms of reliability.

I disagree that Adelaide St is fine - it doesn't improve frequency for Paddington bound trips, which is something which should be done.  15 minute frequency is a bit weak for a trip of 2-3km.  Perhaps you would argue that they should walk.

I'd be very surprised if we ended up with logical outcomes like 204 in the QSBS, 375 in KGS etc. 

My thinking was that if the Bardon side of the 375 became a BUZ, it would be allowed in KGSBS.

[SurfRail]

My thinking was that if the Bardon side of the 375 became a BUZ, it would be allowed in KGSBS.

I had heard scuttlebutt earlier in the year about the 300 or a Hamilton route being throughrouted to this area, but only in passing and not with any detail.

[somebody]

My thinking was that if the Bardon side of the 375 became a BUZ, it would be allowed in KGSBS.

I had heard scuttlebutt earlier in the year about the 300 or a Hamilton route being throughrouted to this area, but only in passing and not with any detail.

That would surprise me greatly.  Unless, perhaps the 475/6 is to be broken up and it would go to Rainworth rather than Bardon.

[dwb]

My thinking was that if the Bardon side of the 375 became a BUZ, it would be allowed in KGSBS.

I had heard scuttlebutt earlier in the year about the 300 or a Hamilton route being throughrouted to this area, but only in passing and not with any detail.

If you tied the 300 with the 374 I don't see why it couldn't work (run to roundabout at MacGregor Tce/Latrobe Tce)... still I really think something needs to happen with 375... whether it be BUZ, or whether it be INB, or whether it be BUZing 374 and running it through to Gabba I'm not really sure...

[techblitz]

I notice this bus service cuts back to 15 minute frequency from 8:20??

ridiculous!!

caught the 8:35 and by the time it was at paddington @ 8:55 bus was full with people having to hold onto the drivers seat & front gocard scanners.

Made a complaint to translink about it suggesting at least 10 minute frequency up till at least 9am.

It seems the little restriction of not being able to use the double/extended buses is now working against translink on this bus route and they are slowly running out of options (even with 5 minute frequency)  Whats next for the 385?

[#Metro]

Why does The Gap have rockets and pre-paid bus? Purpose?
It has 380, 381, 382, 383, 384, 385...

The pre-paid bus takes longer to get to the CBD because it does legacy routing via waterworks road/central station.
More routes to nominate for deadwood removal/review.

Between 8 and 9 am the frequency isn't an even interval of 5 minutes - there are gaps of about 10 minutes or so where the pre-paid bus comes along I suppose.

[SurfRail]

Why does The Gap have rockets and pre-paid bus? Purpose?
It has 380, 381, 382, 383, 384, 385...

So all the precious darlings can have an express bus to the city that drops them off at Riverside or Parliament depending on where their 9-5 is located.

The Gap should have 2 buses only - the 385, and the 380.  I'd even go so far as to suggest the 374 and 375 should be scrapped and the stops resequenced so you can just run a 385 every 5-10 min all day.  Do the same for the 380 so neither service needs to be an express.

Everything else can feed into these routes like the 362 does (except with the resources now available the feeders could actually run at respectable intervals).

Got to get rid of this single seat to everywhere crap, it drives you mad!

[#Metro]

I agree with SurfRail. There appears to be very excessive amounts of bus routes in Brisbane - and we know this, Toronto has waaaaaay fewer than we do. Half the network is composed of rockets, many are coverage routes, and only a fraction are all day high frequency.

The Gap should have 2 buses only - the 385, and the 380.  I'd even go so far as to suggest the 374 and 375 should be scrapped and the stops resequenced so you can just run a 385 every 5-10 min all day.  Do the same for the 380 so neither service needs to be an express.

Too many bus routes. Too complex.

379
380
381
382
383
384
385


MEME!!

[somebody]

Why does The Gap have rockets and pre-paid bus? Purpose?
It has 380, 381, 382, 383, 384, 385...

So all the precious darlings can have an express bus to the city that drops them off at Riverside or Parliament depending on where their 9-5 is located.

The Gap should have 2 buses only - the 385, and the 380.  I'd even go so far as to suggest the 374 and 375 should be scrapped and the stops resequenced so you can just run a 385 every 5-10 min all day.  Do the same for the 380 so neither service needs to be an express.

Everything else can feed into these routes like the 362 does (except with the resources now available the feeders could actually run at respectable intervals).

Got to get rid of this single seat to everywhere cr%p, it drives you mad!

What the?

What will serve Payne Rd?

I'd want to see loading stats, and broken down into I/B and O/B for the rockets.

374 I'm inclined to agree that it should go.