Myki - articles and discussion

[ozbob]

PTUA Media release

http://www.ptua.org.au/2011/07/13/myki-must-work-for-users/

Myki must work for users; must provide single-use option
July 13th, 2011 (Media releases)

The Public Transport Users Association (PTUA) has welcomed an end to the uncertainty over Myki, but criticised the dumping of single-use tickets for new and occasional public transport users.

"Finally, there is an answer – Myki will be staying", said PTUA President Daniel Bowen. "But the apparent move to run the system only with reusable Myki cards, with no single-use tickets available, means a significant barrier to people who do not regularly use public transport – the very people we need to entice out of their cars."

The state government's plan is to remove vending machines from trams, and will be "eliminating to the extent possible the introduction of disposable short-term cards" [1]. Mr Bowen said this would mean that no single use tickets at all would be available once Metcard is scrapped.

Mr Bowen said it made sense to cut the use of short-term tickets [2] (which are currently in use on regional town buses), because of their estimated cost of 35 cents per card, but it was critical that an alternative be provided.

"If occasional users, whether they be tourists or locals, cannot buy a ticket on board, it will discourage them from using public transport at all. They will either involuntarily fare-evade, or choose to drive instead.

"It is ridiculous to tell people they can't take a trip on a tram, train or bus without first investing in a $10 card.

"Ideally as many people as possible will have re-usable Myki cards, to cut transaction costs and loading times, particularly on buses, but it is completely unrealistic to assume that absolutely everybody will have a card."

Mr Bowen said that the government should adapt the Myki equipment to sell and print single-use tickets on paper, using the existing hardware currently used to print topup receipts.

"This would provide a cost-effective option for those who rarely use public transport. Without such an option, the system will have an uphill battle trying to attract new users."

Other changes

Mr Bowen said that apart from single-use tickets, the government should make a number of other changes to the Myki system:

    cut the price of Myki Passes (periodicals) in line with other cities around the world[3], to encourage these fares, which result in reduced transaction costs and times, and in most cases do not require touch-off on every trip[4];
    cut the price of Myki Money fares in regional cities, where currently the discount from single fares is only about 10% [5];
    add functionality so that eligible Myki Pass users can receive operator performance compensation automatically, rather than have to apply for it; and reform fare zones to remove anomalies such as two-zone fares for relatively short trips such as Box Hill to Camberwell, and to locations such as major hospitals at Box Hill and Clayton.

Measures to reduce touch-off times and cut delays should include:

    better educating users on when they do not need to touch-off (for instance, on trams if travelling within zone 1);
    ensure that touch times are more consistently fast, allowing passengers to touch their cards without breaking stride; and
    modify Myki reader sounds to distinguish between touch-on and touch-off sounds, so users can confidently and quickly touch their cards more quickly on standalone readers without having to look at the display.

Other software changes needed to improve the system include:

    reviewing all system prompts to ensure they are as clear as possible;
    ensuring blocked cards (caused by problems such as auto-topup failing due to credit card expiry) do not have to be sent in to be unblocked; and
    resolving issues with multiple RFID cards (such as a Myki card and a PayPass credit card) confusing readers, which would allow more users to touch their Myki cards from within wallets.

Mr Bowen said the government should also consider refunds for Myki cards handed back, which would assist tourists, particularly if short term tickets were not to be offered, and should run another free offer for more users to get cards.

"It looks like Myki is here to stay. The challenge now for government is to make it work: not just to cut the costs to taxpayers, but also to ensure it works for passengers – be they regulars or occasional users of public transport", concluded Mr Bowen.

* * *

[1] State government: Fixing myki to get Victoria's transport ticketing system back on track
www.premier.vic.gov.au/media-centre/media-releases/1195-fixing-myki-to-get-victorias-transport-ticketing-system-back-on-track-.html

[2] Short term tickets are used on regional town buses. They are a single-use cardboard ticket with a Myki-compatible chip inside them www.flickr.com/photos/ptua/4113274839/

[3] A PTUA study in February found that Melbourne's monthly ticket prices are among the highest in the world, in comparison with daily fares. www.ptua.org.au/2011/02/21/monthly-tickets-expensive/

[4] Myki Pass holders do not need to touch-off when travelling in zones covered by their Pass.
www.myki.com.au/default.aspx?ArticleID=186#9

[5] For example, Ballarat or Geelong single zone 2-hour ticket concession $1.00, Myki Money equivalent 90 cents.
www.metlinkmelbourne.com.au/fares-tickets/regional-town-bus-ticketing/myki-on-regional-town-buses/#4

[dwb]

resolving issues with multiple RFID cards (such as a Myki card and a PayPass credit card) confusing readers, which would allow more users to touch their Myki cards from within wallets.

Yeah that's likely!

Presumably they don't want paper options for the same reason we don't in SEQ - it makes closing stations with gates complicated.

The single use tickets in Rio are 'eaten' by the validator (ie gate) on the metro, so they are constantly recycled, however they have VERY STRONG gate protection and hence no onboard ticket verification required.

I don't see why they can't (both down there and up here) install vending machines that give refunds for returned short term use cards??

[colinw]

I don't see why they can't (both down there and up here) install vending machines that give refunds for returned short term use cards??

Don't want to pay for the software upgrades most likely.

I agree that a single use card system, with recycling of retained cards, is the most logical way to go. Would require a lot of work at station gates, etc.

Incidentally, I have a vending machine card from one of our offices that appears to be based on the same RFID technology as Go Card.  The card entitles employees to a certain number of free coffees, teas or hot chocolates from machines spread around several of our sites.  When visiting those sites I have determined that it will read & reject my Go Card, and I have also accidentally swiped the vending machine card on a Go Card machine and received an 'invalid card number' message (or something like that).

On the other hand the proximity card that opens our doors in Brisbane office doesn't interfere with Go Card at all.

[dwb]

I don't see why they can't (both down there and up here) install vending machines that give refunds for returned short term use cards??

Don't want to pay for the software upgrades most likely.

I agree that a single use card system, with recycling of retained cards, is the most logical way to go. Would require a lot of work at station gates, etc.

Incidentally, I have a vending machine card from one of our offices that appears to be based on the same RFID technology as Go Card.  The card entitles employees to a certain number of free coffees, teas or hot chocolates from machines spread around several of our sites.  When visiting those sites I have determined that it will read & reject my Go Card, and I have also accidentally swiped the vending machine card on a Go Card machine and received an 'invalid card number' message (or something like that).

On the other hand the proximity card that opens our doors in Brisbane office doesn't interfere with Go Card at all.

Retained by who? customer??

Just for clarity, I'm not suggesting Translink should move towards full gating nor no proof of purchase for travel required... the one in Seoul let you keep the card (presumably to show upon request) the one in Rio didn't (closed metro system).

[colinw]

Sorry, was unclear.

What I meant was retained by the system either via gates at fully gated stations, or via manual return elsewhere.

Actually, thinking about it I'm not sure there is a good solution available to this problem other than either retaining paper tickets or giving up on the concept of an up front deposit on Go Cards.

[dwb]

Sorry, was unclear.

What I meant was retained by the system either via gates at fully gated stations, or via manual return elsewhere.

Actually, thinking about it I'm not sure there is a good solution available to this problem other than either retaining paper tickets or giving up on the concept of an up front deposit on Go Cards.

Those are two very different systems.

There's no way with our huge multimodal and open system we will move to a system whereby you don't have to carry proof of fare payment, that is a given.

That however doesn't mean we can't have short term go cards that are more or less the same as normal go cards that let you buy, charge up, recharge and then return for refund. The returned cards could be cycled many times over. It would probably be useful to colour them differently (all would be adults) because the cards will be recycled and normal go card users might not like getting a "dirty" card from the machine. It could be possible to even charge different fares, perhaps flat bus fares, but that would seem to be complicating things unnecessarily. iE the big change in Melbourne would simply be a policy one - make the cards refundable!

[dwb]

the big change in Melbourne would simply be a policy one - make the cards refundable!

Sorry, the machine would also have to be programmed to zero out the balance and the history on the card so that the next person to use the card doesn't see someone else's history. Other than that though I really can't see what else would need to be different... they probably wouldn't be able to be used online though (one card number in the db multiple times?!)

[colinw]

What you are suggesting seems like the simplest way forward - basically what I referred to as "manual return".  Given the readers & gates in place, any kind of automated retention would be a major retooling of the system, and of no use on the buses & ferries anyway.

[ozbob]

From the Melbourne Age click here!

China visitors could rescue tickets

China visitors could rescue tickets
Clay Lucas and Andrew Heasley
July 14, 2011

CHINESE tourists could be the saviour of single-use public transport tickets in Melbourne.

Yesterday The Age reported the government was planning to withdraw single-use tickets when myki replaces Metcard in 2013, leaving visitors to Melbourne and occasional train, tram or bus users unable to travel unless they bought one of the $10 smartcards.

Transport Ticketing Authority head Bernie Carolan said that from January 2013, ''all passengers will require a long-life myki card to travel on public transport''.

Asked yesterday if there would be further consideration of retaining a short-term, single-use ticket instead of only myki cards, Mr Carolan confirmed the plan to offer only reusable myki smartcards.

But Tourism Minister Louise Asher opened the door to keeping short-term tickets in Melbourne, partly as a consequence of the government's push to increase Chinese tourism.

Speaking at the launch of Jetstar's new Beijing service yesterday, Ms Asher said withdrawing short-term, single-use tickets in Melbourne was ''part of the negotiations within government''.

''The shorter-term tickets are something that's on the negotiating table,'' she said.

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/china-visitors-could-rescue-tickets-20110713-1hdye.html

[Gazza]

If the price of the ticket media is the problem, then why not say break up the price, and advertise it..Make it so the ticket price is identical to a myki trip, but advertise a 35-40c surcharge for the fact its a disposable RFID card on top of this. Then the burden is shifted from the agency to the user.

[ozbob]

Herald Sun  --> Commuters doubt they are being charged correct myki fares

[ozbob]

From the Herald Sun click here!

Taxis next for troubled smartcard myki

Taxis next for troubled smartcard myki

    Ashley Gardiner
    From: Herald Sun
    August 03, 2011 12:00AM

TAXI passengers could be paying their fares with the myki smartcard under a proposal by transport officials.

The plan has been raised in a high-level submission to the taxi inquiry headed by Allan Fels.

The Transport Ticketing Authority said systems like myki could be used to pay for short trips.

In taxis, the card could be used at the start of a journey to touch on, checking for sufficient funds.

At the end of a trip, the passenger would touch off, and the total fare would be deducted from the account.

Department of Transport chiefs want Professor Fels to tackle Cabcharge's grip on the taxi industry.

"The inquiry should be free to consider market-based solutions or public transport ticketing solutions," the department said.

"(These) avoid penalising users who choose to pay taxi fares electronically."

It is the first time the idea has been raised since plans to extend myki's use beyond public transport fares were shelved in 2007.

Victorian Taxi Association executive officer David Samuel said the structure of myki, where customers had to keep their accounts in credit, would be a problem.

"It would be hard to see it really working in the current scenario," Mr Samuel said.

The public's perception of myki, which was introduced years late and has been dogged by glitches, could also be a major stumbling block.

Public Transport Users Association president Daniel Bowen said myki needed to do its main job properly first.

"Myki needs to be fully and reliably working on trams, trains and buses before it's widened to pay for other products and services," he said.

The Transport Department submission said the 10 per cent surcharge on Eftpos levied by Cabcharge could be discouraging people from using taxis.

The surcharge in other countries was between 2-5 per cent.

In Victoria, all taxis must have a Cabcharge Eftpos terminal to process fares subsidised by the Government.

"Cabcharge ... exercises a high degree of control over key elements of the Victorian taxi industry," the department said.

Cabcharge did not respond to a request for comment from the Herald Sun.

Ticketing authority chief Bernie Carolan said much work would be needed if myki were to operate in taxis.

"Systems like myki have the capability to be used for other applications, such as a payment method for small purchases," he said.

"The priority at the moment is to get myki operating as a ticketing system for public transport.

"If myki were to be introduced as a payment method for taxis, a significant amount of work would be required to come up with a suitable solution."

[dwb]

From the Herald Sun click here!

Taxis next for troubled smartcard myki

Taxis next for troubled smartcard myki

    Ashley Gardiner
    From: Herald Sun
    August 03, 2011 12:00AM

TAXI passengers could be paying their fares with the myki smartcard under a proposal by transport officials.

The plan has been raised in a high-level submission to the taxi inquiry headed by Allan Fels.

The Transport Ticketing Authority said systems like myki could be used to pay for short trips.

In taxis, the card could be used at the start of a journey to touch on, checking for sufficient funds.

At the end of a trip, the passenger would touch off, and the total fare would be deducted from the account.

...

Same could be done here, quicker and more easily and successfully!

[dwb]

Well I'm off to Melbourne today with my card that I got at the very launch, will be my first use of the system - let's see how it all goes!

One thing that appears better than Go card is that it hasn't refunded me my top up despite me not touching on since being issued the card!

[ozbob]

Enjoy Dwb!!  I am off to Melbourne late next week myself, myki loaded and ready to go!

[ozbob]

From the Melbourne Age click here!

$15m myki cards set to be pulped

$15m myki cards set to be pulped
Clay Lucas
September 5, 2011

FIFTY million paper myki cards in storage will never be used, after the Baillieu government decision to dump all short-term tickets when the Metcard system is shut down.

The government has confirmed it owns the single-use paper tickets, which are on hundreds of pallets in warehouses in Altona and Rowville.

The tickets - designed as single-use myki fares for people who did not have a permanent plastic smartcard, and did not want to spend $10 buying one - have a microchip. Each ticket cost taxpayers 31¢, or about $15 million in total.

In June Premier Ted Baillieu - acting on advice in a report by consultants Deloitte that has been kept secret - said short-term tickets would be eliminated when Metcard was switched off. Myki and Metcard are now both valid for travel in Melbourne.

But at the end of next year permanent plastic myki cards, now used for a quarter of public transport trips in Melbourne, will become the only valid public transport ticket.

By following Deloitte's recommendation, the government's Transport Ticketing Authority has been left holding the 50 million tickets.

It had continued to stockpile the tickets until mid-2010, in preparation for Metcard to be switched off.

Some of the tickets - perhaps 200,000 of them a month according to an industry source - can be used aboard buses in six regional Victorian towns where myki is valid.

But the government plans to abolish short-term tickets even in these towns at the same time Metcard is switched off. It is likely the 50 million tickets in storage will ultimately be pulped.

Abolishing all single-use public transport tickets when myki replaces Metcard will leave tourists and occasional train, tram or bus users unable to travel unless they have a non-refundable $10 smartcard.

Melbourne will be one of the world's only cities where visitors and occasional users cannot buy a short-term ticket.

However, the decision to dump short-term tickets will help the government reduce myki's complexity and cut its operating cost.

''The decision to not have short-term tickets as part of the myki system is estimated to save in the order of $30 million dollars,'' Transport Ticketing Authority chief executive Bernie Carolan said.

The decision to scrap single-use tickets has also upended plans for myki vending machines on trams. This has left close to 500 vending machines, bought around 2008, also in storage, still in their crates.

Mr Carolan said the government was investigating whether the vending machines could now instead be installed at railway stations, on tram ''superstops'', or at busy bus interchanges.

News of the stockpiled tickets and vending machines comes as the Transport Ticketing Authority's chairwoman resigned.

Former Department of Human Services secretary Patricia Faulkner, appointed last March, will leave the authority's board this month.

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/15m-myki-cards-set-to-be-pulped-20110904-1jsf3.html

There are some lessons to be learnt from Brisbane here, oh dear ...

[ozbob]

The blog at the Melbourne Age is in overdrive on this article .. lol

[Gazza]

So if the disposable Myki cards cost 31c each, then why not just put a 31c surcharge on all short term tickets, and advertise this fact?
That's a fair compromise surely?

[ozbob]

So if the disposable Myki cards cost 31c each, then why not just put a 31c surcharge on all short term tickets, and advertise this fact?
That's a fair compromise surely?

Yes, some places put a refundable deposit on them. Others just factor the cost into the pricing.  More than covers the small cost.

[O_128]

So if the disposable Myki cards cost 31c each, then why not just put a 31c surcharge on all short term tickets, and advertise this fact?
That's a fair compromise surely?

Yes, some places put a refundable deposit on them. Others just factor the cost into the pricing.  More than covers the small cost.

Does it matter, People create something out of nothing, 5 pound deposit for an oyster in london! who cares, And I kept mine as a souvenir

[ozbob]

Twitter

ptua PTUA
Here's a pic of one of the #Myki Short Term Tickets being talked about today http://t.co/5JC9Fen - now all to be pulped
12 minutes ago

[ozbob]

Daniel Bowen Blog --> My old Myki Short Term Ticket still works

[Gazza]

and also that almost 500 vending machines originally intended for trams are likely to be re-deployed onto tram and bus stops and interchanges.

LOVE this idea!

[ozbob]

Twitter

danielbowen Daniel Bowen
Govt does not oppose @GregMLC's motion to release Deloitte #Myki http://t.co/UC1VTOD
5 hours ago

[ozbob]

Meld Magazine --> Beware second-hand myki cards

[ozbob]

Twitter

aussiewongm Marcus Wong

Ever wondered what is inside a short term #myki? http://t.co/hwi9vCS
8 hours ago

[Derwan]

From http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/technology/technology-news/website-watchdog-finds-myki-smartcard-failing-at-maths-20110912-1k633.html

Website watchdog finds myki smartcard failing at maths

A FREE website set up to help people check the accuracy of charges to their Victorian myki card has found hundreds of public transport travellers paying too much.

The MykiLeaks website was created by a Monash University software engineering student to help travellers keep track of charges to their smartcard.

Users upload their myki statement to the website, which automatically deduces whether an error has occurred.

Users can then use the information to claim reimbursement from the government.

The website went live last December and about 2000 people have had their statements checked.

The site's founder, Jonathan Mullins, said 15 per cent of the statements showed an overcharge.

Combined, the errors amounted to overcharging of just $1700, indicating where there was an issue it was generally minor.

The most extreme example saw one person charged $18.12 for a day's travel in zone one on Melbourne's tram system - meant to cost $6.04 using myki.

Other examples of overcharging that the website found were travellers:
■Paying more than the $3 daily cap on weekends.
■Paying more than the weekday daily cap of $10.20.
■Paying a zone one fare when travelling only in zone two.

''The results of the data submitted to MykiLeaks indicate that the issue of overcharging is yet to be resolved,'' Mr Mullins said.

And people who were clearly overcharged by the system were not having their account automatically rectified, he said. ''Customers must apply for reimbursement by contacting the myki customer service line or submitting an online request,'' he said.

Instead, the Transport Ticketing Authority and the consortium behind myki, Kamco, should be auditing customer statements and rectifying them without public transport passengers having to complain.

Bernie Carolan, chief executive of the government's ticketing authority, has previously warned myki users against giving their personal information to the website.

Yesterday Mr Carolan said that, because the government did not have access to what the website had found, he could not confirm the website's claims.

''If a customer is concerned they have paid more for their fare than required, they should contact the myki call centre on 13 69 54,'' Mr Carolan said.

[ozbob]

From the Herald Sun click here!

Taxpayers hit with more myki costs

Taxpayers hit with more myki costs

    Greg Thom
    From: Herald Sun
    September 15, 2011 12:00AM

SCRAPPING short-term tickets on Melbourne public transport and myki readers on trams will cost taxpayers more than $27 million.

The Transport Ticketing Authority's annual report confirms it will write off its stocks of single trip tickets, valued at $14.6 million.

Regional buses will offer the tickets for another year.

The TTA has also taken a $12.8 million hit from excluding myki readers from trams.

Efforts to determine how much could be saved by returning the surplus machines have been "inconclusive".

Many will be used at train stations, tram platform stops and bus interchanges.

TTA chief Bernie Carolan said while the decisions caused financial pain, scrapping short-term tickets would save $30 million over the life of the contract.

The report also revealed:

THE number of myki "touch-ons" comprised 25 per cent of ticket validations this financial year, up from 6 per cent in 2009-10.

MORE than 1.3 million mykis have been issued.

COMMUTERS processed more than $96 million through myki machines in 2010-11, well down on the $545 million on Metcards.

Topping up mykis at a machine (as opposed to online) was the most popular option for users, accounting for 78 per cent of transactions.

[dwb]

THE number of myki "touch-ons" comprised 25 per cent of ticket validations this financial year, up from 6 per cent in 2009-10.

Ha, that may be so, but who actually validates their monthly metcard on trams? The number of ticket validations would be nothing close to the number of trips. People buy a monthly metcard, validate it once then just get on and off as many trams as they like for that month. Might strictly speaking be outside the T&Cs but it is entirely understandable and from my perspective reasonable, even if it means their patronage data is way off!

If some bureaucrat never noticed that over crowding and metcard validations didn't line up that's their fault.

[ozbob]

From the Melbourne Age click here!

Myki users slugged with 12 months of charges

Myki users slugged with 12 months of charges
Maris Beck and Reid Sexton
September 28, 2011

THOUSANDS of public transport users have been hit with belated bills from myki, which failed to properly debit users' bank accounts since at least September last year.

A Transport Ticketing Authority spokesman said myki had failed to collect between $100,000 and $140,000 from about 2400 users. Users may be unaware of the problem because their myki accounts were credited even though their bank accounts were not charged.

Ben Haywood, a Fairfax employee, was told he owed $1040 in top-ups dating back to last September. Myki said it would credit 20 per cent back to his myki account as a ''gesture of goodwill'' once he had paid.
Advertisement: Story continues below

Mr Haywood said he had asked if he could pay in instalments but was refused. ''It's not easy to find $1000 at any given time for anybody. It's inconvenient for me, but it could be crippling for other people.

''I haven't done anything wrong, but I feel like I've got this penalty.''

It was reported earlier this month that a free website set up to help people check the accuracy of charges to their myki card found hundreds of public transport users - about 15 per cent of people reviewed - were being charged too much.

Myki's ''courtesy email'' says that the delayed transactions would be acted on over the coming weeks. ''There is nothing you need to do, however as a reminder, to avoid your myki being temporarily suspended please make sure sufficient funds are available in your nominated bank account by 17 October 2011,'' it says.

Mr Haywood received a further email from myki at 9.30 last night saying: ''l can understand it would have been alarming to receive the information in this way. I want to assure you that we will not attempt to recover any money from your account until we discuss this in more detail with you.''

Public Transport Users Association president Daniel Bowen said users should seek advice before paying and said myki should offer instalments.

The government did not respond by deadline.

Meanwhile, Melburnians appear unwilling to have the existing Metcard ticketing system replaced with myki smartcards - but it will be forced upon them in just over a year.

The paper Metcard tickets are rated by rail and bus passengers as the best aspect of the public transport network while tram users rate it second.

This is in contrast to the $1.35 billion myki smartcard system, with bus passengers rating it the worst part of catching a bus and train, and tram passengers rating it significantly lower than Metcard.

The findings are in Transport Department surveys of about 2100 public transport users conducted between April and June and obtained by The Age under freedom-of-information laws.

A cost blowout of at least $350 million and its delayed introduction by more than three years saw myki attacked by the Coalition when in opposition.

Bus passengers have embraced myki the least, rating their satisfaction with it a 6.2 out of 10 while scoring Metcard eight. Rail passengers gave myki 7.1 and Metcard 7.7 while tram passengers gave myki 7 and Metcard 7.5.

All passengers consistently rated system information and swiping problems with the cards as its biggest drawbacks.

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/myki-users-slugged-with-12-months-of-charges-20110927-1kvf7.html

[ozbob]

From the Melbourne Age click here!

Myki plan to delay repayment

Myki plan to delay repayment
Reid Sexton
September 29, 2011

PASSENGERS who use myki could get more time to pay back money if they are under-charged by the troubled system, under a proposal by Greens MP Greg Barber.

Mr Barber's plan follows emails to thousands of people this week who were told they must pay back money owed in less than a month.

The Transport Ticketing Authority emailed about 2400 public transport users on Tuesday, revealing that their myki accounts had been credited at least once without charges to their bank accounts.

The authority demanded that the money, which it estimated to range from $100,000 to $140,000, be in the bank accounts by October 17 or their cards would be suspended.

While that averages about $58 per passenger, Fairfax employee Ben Haywood was told he owed $1040. (Fairfax owns The Age.)

Mr Barber said it was unjust to undercharge passengers without their knowledge and then threaten their use of public transport if the money wasn't paid back almost immediately.

He said he would call for a vote in the upper house to refer the myki ticketing manual, which gives the authority power to demand payment, to Parliament's scrutiny of acts and regulations committee to see if it could be made fairer.

''I'm not getting into the issue of whether the money should or should not be paid,'' he said. ''But it's the threat of cutting you off because you suddenly owe them money, according to them, that seems to be ... unconscionable.''

Mr Barber will request the vote during Parliament's next sitting week next month.

The move would require the support of the Baillieu government, with the government yesterday declining to comment.

Meanwhile, a Department of Transport survey revealed Werribee line passengers were the most unhappy with the rail network in 2010-11, rating it just 5.8 out of 10.

The survey, obtained under freedom of information law, said this was likely the result of network-wide timetable changes that mean people boarding at an Altona Loop station must catch three trains to reach the City Loop and face longer waits.

The government has said the changes have improved over-crowding and punctuality. But Greens MP Colleen Hartland said the survey findings were not surprising.

''The Altona Loop recently suffered major cuts to its train service and a trip to the City Loop ... can take 80 minutes

''The Altona Loop should have [its] City Loop services returned and the single train track should be duplicated to allow for more frequent and reliable services.''

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/myki-plan-to-delay-repayment-20110928-1kxdx.html

[ozbob]

Queensland's Go Card vs #Myki  --> here!

[ozbob]

Queensland's Go Card vs #Myki  --> here!

Some great points.  With the TransLink journey planner if you click on the journey details (secondary link) costs are listed.  But it is not that obvious.

My own experience with myki is that the screens are a bit easier to read etc. than go, Melbourne gates are fast but response times bit slower on trams and buses than the go on buses.

[somebody]

Queensland's Go Card vs #Myki  --> here!

I think that this really shows the weakness of the refund system - even an experienced PT user is unaware that Go Card refunds can be done over the counter in cash.

Main weakness being the education about the refunds, in case it isn't obvious what I am saying.

[ozbob]

Yes Daniel has highlighted issues we have been raising for some time.  User education and improved conditions of use (coming apparently ...).

[ozbob]

From the Herald Sun click here!

Commuter hits mighty myki jackpot

Commuter hits mighty myki jackpot

    by: Stephen Drill
    From: Herald Sun
    October 08, 2011 12:00AM

A MYKI machine at Flinders St station turned a $4 top-up into almost $500,000 worth of public transport credit yesterday in another blow for the trouble-plagued system.

Steve Davidson, of Southbank, was so stunned when the change he inserted in the machine came up as $474,591.17, he took a picture of the display and posted it on Twitter.

"I couldn't believe it. I couldn't get through that amount if I spent every single day on the train for the rest of my life," he said.

"I just put about $4 worth of loose change in for a quick top-up and all of a sudden it came up on the display as $470k."

Mr Davidson, 31, said he topped up his card at a machine near the corner of Flinders and Elizabeth streets. But the lotto-sized dividend had disappeared from his myki card when he went to use it later.

Mr Davidson said he was concerned myki machines could not be trusted and some commuters might have been short-changed.

Victoria did not get value from a $1.4 billion system.

"No, not for all the delays to the system and now to find it doesn't work properly," Mr Davidson said.

Public Transport Users Association president Daniel Bowen said the myki system needed work.

"I'm surprised they haven't fixed such an obvious problem," he said.

"The majority of people certainly still prefer Metcard. The myki system needs to improve a lot before Metcards are phased out."

A spokesman for the Transport Ticketing Authority last night confirmed the myki machine error.

"The TTA is aware of an instance where a myki machine has shown a large, anomalous amount, which the screen display suggests has been inserted into the machine," he said.

"The amount is not real and is an onscreen display error triggered by an unusual series of customer actions, the combination of which is so unlikely as to make it highly improbable other users will be affected."

[Jonno]

So except for the fare structure and some readability (which we all know about) the system is not that bad. Not I don't catch buses much and their readers can be problematic.

[somebody]

So except for the fare structure and some readability (which we all know about) the system is not that bad. Not I don't catch buses much and their readers can be problematic.

I use buses a lot and say that there are few issues with them.  There is the odd occasion where the GPS doesn't recognise the stop, but this is easily corrected by the driver on the spot.

Only issue I have is that the fare levels are set far too high.

[ozbob]

From the Melbourne Age click here!

Hackers crack myki: cards to be scrapped

Hackers crack myki: cards to be scrapped
Dan Moss
October 12, 2011 - 12:47PM

More than 1.1 million myki cards will be phased out after hackers found a way to clone the tickets.

Myki manufacturer NXP has recommended users upgrade to the newer, 2008 swipecard, the MIFARE DESFire EV1.

The Transport Ticketing Authority has said it would replace myki with the more secure card, but has not said when, the Melbourne Weekly reports.

TTA financial reports state the authority has $22.8 million worth of tickets in stock — which could include metcards and single-use mykis — but this figure was written down this year to $8.1 million after the decision to scrap short-term myki tickets worth $14.1 million.

German engineering academics David Oswald and Christof Paar, both from Ruhr Universitat Bochum, have been studying how to hack into the card and claim their research forced NXP to discontinue the myki card. The scientists are studying the cards as part of their cryptography research.

Mr Oswald said the duo have been researching hacks for the newer EV1 card but "so far, we could not find any similar problem for this card".

TTA chief executive Bernie Carolan said the hacks did not force the authority to replace the cards.

He has assured the public "don't need to worry about the security of their myki card."

"There is no reason to assume any cards will become wasted or inoperable," he said.

Mr Carolan said transport users are safe because mykis hold limited information — only the card balance and the last 10 transactions. No personal information is held on the card.

But Mr Oswald said under certain circumstances a reprogrammed card can be used to gain a free ride on public transport.

He said cards can be cloned at home and the process took seven hours, but could be reduced to three or fewer with practise and better expertise. The cloning equipment costs about $3000.

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/technology/technology-news/hackers-crack-myki-cards-to-be-scrapped-20111012-1lk5p.html

[ozbob]

Cubic cards which include the Oyster Card and Go card are also vulnerable --> http://t.co/N5BQsVV9  hardly worth the effort though ..