Should Bulimba get a BUZ and which road? Thynne, Riding or Hawthorne Rds?

[kazzac]

Riding Road should have a  230 BUZ or a Glider,and Thynne Rd have more 235 services nights/weekends, but I don't think TL will put 2 BUZ routes in this area.

[newbris]

I don't understand the calls for a Glider in Bulimba. Buz I absolutely get, but it seems too far away/isolated with little of interest on the way to be suited to a Glider...or am I missing the purpose of Gliders ?

[longboi]

I don't understand the calls for a Glider in Bulimba. Buz I absolutely get, but it seems too far away/isolated with little of interest on the way to be suited to a Glider...or am I missing the purpose of Gliders ?

I think the idea just sort of came about as opposition to the Maroon CityGlider when talks of the proposed route started to circulate.

A BUZ is just fine. And just on the subject...If the 230 were to become a BUZ, the 230/235 travelling along the same corridor through East Brisbane would no longer be necessary.
Perhaps continuing an increased frequency 235 along Vulture St East and Stanley St East, then via Bennetts Rd to continue along the current route could be investigated. It would certainly go a long way to fix East Brisbane which is currently a bit of an Inner-City PT black spot. 

[somebody]

I don't understand the calls for a Glider in Bulimba. Buz I absolutely get, but it seems too far away/isolated with little of interest on the way to be suited to a Glider...or am I missing the purpose of Gliders ?

I think there's little functional difference between the "Glider" and "BUZ".  It's just a way of highlighting the issue.

[minbrisbane]

The glider runs 24hrs over weekends, whilst not all BUZ have 'N' routes.  That's probably the biggest difference.

Personally; I think Riding Rd would be better suited to a BUZ.

[#Metro]

Brisbane's busiest route is 150, and whats so amazing on that route? Same with the blue glider. Bulimba is similar distance as tennerife and has good pt anchors, and high value for money and high patronage as per bus review.

[#Metro]

I think Bulimba does justify a CityGlider grade bus service down Riding Road. There's a lot of activity on Friday/Sat nights with movies and dining and all that. Riding Road doesn't need a glider, a BUZ would do.

Of course ANY improvement to span and frequency, given the current state, would be welcome, whatever it was called!

[Golliwog]

I think Bulimba does justify a CityGlider grade bus service down Riding Road. There's a lot of activity on Friday/Sat nights with movies and dining and all that. Riding Road doesn't need a glider, a BUZ would do.

But how much of that is between midnight and 5am?

[#Metro]

I think that in a large city, services should run 24 hours, 7 days per week along the main arterial routes within inner city high density areas and on main trunk lines such as busways. Half hourly within high density areas. Are roads open between 1am - 5 am?, you bet they are.

Will the bus fill up with people, no, but it is a coverage measure and also gives certainty.
Many of Melbourne's trams get excellent loads even at close to midnight. Take a ride on 412 very late at night, also good loads on that too.

It may take some time for the idea to catch on and it may be many years before Brisbane is ready to take this step, but if we are serious about allowing at least some people to ditch the car COMPLETELY, then there does need to be service ready. Incremental change may see first an extension of Friday/Sat services to much later hours. If people know that service will be available on any day not just Fri/Sat, I think they would use it.

Here's my list:

333 Chermside
444 Indooroopilly (short turn the service, don't go all the way to Moggill, not necessary).
111 Garden City (short turn)
222 Carindale
199 West End - New Farm
412 Toowong (short turn at Toowong, timed to meet 444)
385 Ashgrove (short turn at Ashgrove)
230 Bulimba


Toronto has something like this, the Blue Night Network. Covers the entire city, and runs every night, not just weekends.
http://www3.ttc.ca/images/fixedImages/TTC-bluenight.pdf

[#Metro]

Maybe this should be PT fact of the day...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Night_Network

1986 report  http://transit.toronto.on.ca/archives/reports/metro_all_night_transit_service_1986_full_report.pdf

2005 review http://transit.toronto.on.ca/archives/reports/review_of_overnight_services_january2005.pdf

The Blue Night network increased overnight transit
ridership, and improved the accessibility to overnight transit
for customers throughout Toronto.

In 1983, the previous
overnight network carried approximately 27,400 customertrips each week. In September 1987, the expanded network
carried approximately 40,400 customer-trips each week.

40 000 x 52 weeks = 2 million per year, significant...

The current
weekly overnight ridership of 52,100 is approximately 30 per
cent higher than the weekly overnight ridership in September
1987.

And the cost? About the same cost as Maroon CityGlider! LOL

The total annual fully-allocated operating cost of the overnight network is approximately $9.7-million.

[newbris]

Brisbane's busiest route is 150, and whats so amazing on that route? Same with the blue glider. Bulimba is similar distance as tennerife and has good pt anchors, and high value for money and high patronage as per bus review.

I can see the argument for a Buz service for Bulimba. Bulimba is 7.5km to town compared to Teneriffe being 2km. It would be great if everywhere could be an all night highly legible glider but given that is not the case currently I wouldn't put Bulimba next on the list for a glider. There is not much between it and the next major trip generator and it seems more like a one destination service, than a journey service. I'm no expert though.

The blue glider is anchored at Teneriffe ferry for interchange and then passes through the Valley, City, Southbank, West End and then anchored at Hill End ferry for interchange again. It passes all sorts of bi-directional short and long trip generators.

The maroon glider is anchored at the Ashgrove supermarkets/cafes/shops for transfers from north west Brisbane buses and then passes:
- Bardon restaurant strip (oddly no direct stop - timing?),
- upper Latrobe antiques, boutiques and cafes,
- lower Latrobe cafes, restaurants and fashion,
- Given Tce shopping and Suncorp stadium,
- Caxton street pubs, nightclubs and restaurants,
- The Barracks complex with movies, restaurants and shopping
- Roma Street parklands and interchange
- The CBD
- Southbank
- Mater Hospital
- The Gabba
- Woolloongabba antique and restaurant strip
- Stones Corner strip
- Coorparoo junction interchange to south/east suburbs.

Seems a lot more glider-like  than the Bulimba route to my amateur eye ? I should declare that I live along the route so may not be totally impartial. While I broadly understand the criticisms of the maroon glider as duplication etc (if really not needed won't the existing services be redeployed?) I don't get the zero improvement to locals argument. Whether it should have been done or not it will make a huge difference to my ease of getting around the area. I will use it all the time.

I understand the calls for a BulimbaGlider may have just been in response to the Maroon glider, just surprised it got further than the forum...would have thought Buz would have been the public push....though I might be missing the point...

Let me be the target for all your maroon glider rage ...only kidding, go easy on me

[ozbob]

G'day Newbris.  All a means to an end, looks like 230 might be improved as a result of review etc.   

The Maroon CG will allow some further redeployment of services as well. 

[somebody]

Brisbane's busiest route is 150, and whats so amazing on that route? Same with the blue glider. Bulimba is similar distance as tennerife and has good pt anchors, and high value for money and high patronage as per bus review.

Last I checked, it was the 199.

[#Metro]

Route 230 also serves city, valley, southbank, and ferry terminals. The only thing at ashgrove is campbell newmans electorate office, which if I am correct, the bus terminates outside of.

As I made clearer earlier, improvements would be incremental towards an ultimate goal of a night network.

[newbris]

Route 230 also serves city, valley, southbank, and ferry terminals. The only thing at ashgrove is campbell newmans electorate office, which if I am correct, the bus terminates outside of.

As I made clearer earlier, improvements would be incremental towards an ultimate goal of a night network.

Yes, bulimba buz would arrive at city, sb, valley or whatever, just not much of interest along the way so probably not high on glider list at the moment...as you say eventual night service would be good.

I agree Ashgrove wouldn't rate a glider by itself, but I think it makes a good anchor/interchange to a route that has a lot of interest along it. Ashgrove connects the glider to all the residents on the north west routes that go through it. It also provides the major practical shopping in the local area with 3 full line supermarkets, 5 banks, 2 pubs, 10 cafe's, restaurants, take aways, gyms, dozens of business, 4 schools, 4 childcare centres, a TAFE college, Broncos club and 1 electoral office It certainly beats Hill End

[#Metro]

Sorry, but can't agree with you there at all. bulimba bus routes feature high patronage and high value for money despite dismal service which trumps your argument about 'interest'. With all the mega parking issues, there is plenty of interest. Just ask kazzac.

[newbris]

Sorry, but can't agree with you there at all. bulimba bus routes feature high patronage and high value for money despite dismal service which trumps your argument about 'interest'. With all the mega parking issues, there is plenty of interest. Just ask kazzac.

I agree with you. My argument is simply about the type of route. People want to go to Bulimba. A buz would do that. Gliders seem to be designed around many places of interest all along the route. Of course it would be great if they all could be gliders one day. Personally I take the citycat to bulimba...can't be beat

[SurfRail]

^ It would only need to run half-hourly.

The 700 passes through some fairly notable dead spots at night over the length of the run.  It manages.

[longboi]

Sorry, but can't agree with you there at all. bulimba bus routes feature high patronage and high value for money despite dismal service which trumps your argument about 'interest'. With all the mega parking issues, there is plenty of interest. Just ask kazzac.

To be fair, you have to remember that while 230 attracts a 'high patronage' and 'high value' rating, it does have a lower frequency. The same patronage when applied to a BUZ route wouldn't attract those same ratings. However that's not to say a high frequency service isn't warranted.

The Maroon CityGlider will free up buses currently used on 374s and sweeper 385s. It will also come in handy during events at Suncorp. Presently many people turn up to Cultural Centre expecting a shuttle but by CC most are full. Adelaide St shuttles are also already quite busy as it is. I'm not saying it's the right way to go, but there are some positives.

[#Metro]

To be fair, you have to remember that while 230 attracts a 'high patronage' and 'high value' rating, it does have a lower frequency. The same patronage when applied to a BUZ route wouldn't attract those same ratings. However that's not to say a high frequency service isn't warranted.

The Maroon CityGlider will free up buses currently used on 374s and sweeper 385s. It will also come in handy during events at Suncorp. Presently many people turn up to Cultural Centre expecting a shuttle but by CC most are full. Adelaide St shuttles are also already quite busy as it is. I'm not saying it's the right way to go, but there are some positives.

Disagree. Bus routes when upgraded to BUZ usually double their patronage at minimum and are pretty popular. But more to the point, I think nobody here disagrees that Bulimba should, at minimum have BUZ level service.

The only reason why one would have to scratch around for 'some positives' / crumbs of positivity is because overwhelmingly it is a negative. With $9 million, and in addition to cutting waste and recycling that into new services, could easily pay for residents of Bulimba, Centenary at least to join the Frequent Network. If game days were the concern, then that money could have just been spent during game days only on more buses.

I daresay there would be more benefit to the city if BCC simply threw $9 million dollars into the Brisbane River from the Story Bridge, at least that way residents of said suburbs downstream would get some benefit...

[somebody]

The Maroon CityGlider will free up buses currently used on 374s and sweeper 385s. It will also come in handy during events at Suncorp. Presently many people turn up to Cultural Centre expecting a shuttle but by CC most are full. Adelaide St shuttles are also already quite busy as it is. I'm not saying it's the right way to go, but there are some positives.

What are these?  All the I/B AM peak 385s in the timetable are full trips.

[SurfRail]

^ Sweepers by definition are not timetabled.

[kazzac]

Sorry, but can't agree with you there at all. bulimba bus routes feature high patronage and high value for money despite dismal service which trumps your argument about 'interest'. With all the mega parking issues, there is plenty of interest. Just ask kazzac.

I agree with you. My argument is simply about the type of route. People want to go to Bulimba. A buz would do that. Gliders seem to be designed around many places of interest all along the route. Of course it would be great if they all could be gliders one day. Personally I take the citycat to bulimba...can't be beat

if you live between Riding and Thynne Rds the City cat terminals  are about a 20 minute walk, maybe more, you wouldn't  want to be walking from there late at night ,thats why a 230 BUZ service is needed.

[newbris]

Sorry, but can't agree with you there at all. bulimba bus routes feature high patronage and high value for money despite dismal service which trumps your argument about 'interest'. With all the mega parking issues, there is plenty of interest. Just ask kazzac.

I agree with you. My argument is simply about the type of route. People want to go to Bulimba. A buz would do that. Gliders seem to be designed around many places of interest all along the route. Of course it would be great if they all could be gliders one day. Personally I take the citycat to bulimba...can't be beat

if you live between Riding and Thynne Rds the City cat terminals  are about a 20 minute walk, maybe more, you wouldn't  want to be walking from there late at night ,thats why a 230 BUZ service is needed.

Yes, I think everyone is on board with that...my comment was just that even when the buz arrives I will still take the cat to oxford street as it is so great...I'll leave the buz to the mid suburb commuters which is really where the issue is...us people coming from the city area to oxford st for social reasons usually wouldn't "need" the buz as the cats are great...

[longboi]

Disagree. Bus routes when upgraded to BUZ usually double their patronage at minimum and are pretty popular. But more to the point, I think nobody here disagrees that Bulimba should, at minimum have BUZ level service.

Sorry I should have explained myself better.

What I'm trying to say is that if the current patronage of the 230 was transplanted onto a current BUZ (e.g. 111), it would not attract the same high 'patronage' and 'value for money' ratings. This is due to the fact that there are less services (high value for money) so a greater number of people are concentrated onto less buses (high patronage). Outside of peak, the patronage can be hit and miss (sometimes completely full, sometimes 1/2 - 3/4).

However, should it be converted into a BUZ, I have no doubt that it would eventually build patronage similar to the 345.

[achiruel]

Would anyone find improving the frequency of the 230 useful as an interim measure, even if not to full BUZ standard?

e.g. on Saturdays it only runs every 45 minutes and Sundays every 90 (who the hell though up these stupid frequencies that connect to nothing consistently?!?!?!)

What if it moved to every 30 minutes on weekends, and fix the holes in the counter-peak service - 230s depart Balmoral and 2:55pm, 3:32pm, 4:18pm, 5:09pm, 5:46pm and 6:42pm giving service gaps of 37 minutes, 46 minutes, 51 minutes, 37 minutes and 58 minutes.

This is before it turns into a loop with the 235, which also needs to be gotten rid of urgently.

Is it worth campaigning for these types of incremental improvements now the Glider has been lost to the maroon stupidity or will this only delay the coming of the Bulimba BUZ?

[#Metro]

It would be faster to swim to the CBD

[Golliwog]

I think calling for any kind of improvement is a good idea. Some kind of improvement, even if it's not quite the standard we'd like is better than nothing. Another example (off-topic) for me is the 362 which I think could be run ever 30 minutes, however I'd be happy if they could make it clock-face hourly with one service either side of the current start and finish times.