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Author Topic: Should Bulimba get a BUZ and which road? Thynne, Riding or Hawthorne Rds?  (Read 8502 times)

Offline #Metro

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Discuss.
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achiruel

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I'd probably go for Thynne Rd, and make it travel via Shafston Ave/Story Bridge.

I know it's a bit longer but it has interchange with Morningside Station

Hawthorne Rd is closer to the CityCat so has some kind of public transport access, although I realise it's a different corridor.  There is also the 232 although it could do with a boost in frequency/expansion of hours (at least the part up to Oxford St) to say every 15 minutes peak and 30 minutes off-peak 6am-9pm 7 days a week.  And yes I realise it's a bit windy, but I think it's designed that way to serve Hawthorne CityCat terminal, once it gets on to Hawthorne Rd is straightens up again.

Another option for the Bulimba area is to cut all buses back to Morningside Station and run a bi-directional loop via Riding & Thynne Rds with interchange to trains or a much-improved Wynnum Rd service via Shafston Ave to the city.  This would allow buses to be far more frequent in the loop area without increasing resource running them to/from the city.  Of course this would require expansion of train/Wynnum Rd bus frequency esp. during peak hours.

But yes something definitely needs to be done about bus frequency in Bulimba/Balmoral/Hawthorne region.

Offline O_128

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I'd go for riding road due to the large amount of shops and oxford st. We can always do bidirectional loop, loop A, Riding Road then Thyne, terminate at morningside and loop b thyme road then Riding road. Bit complicated though.
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Offline SurfRail

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Riding Road, no question.  More central, which means more walk-up patronage, and more activity happening along the street.

Basic plan of my proposed route would be City (preferably not just the Cultural Centre/Adelaide Strett - perhaps Parliament/Eagle Street?),  Ivory Street, Story Bridge, follow Shafston/Wynnum as far as Morningside station, then up Thynne Road, left into Monmouth St, then up Riding Road and Oxford Street.  Terminate at Bulimba Ferry.

I would be inclined to replace the 231/232/235/236 with this BUZ service, and with 2 services, both originating at Morningside Station and terminating at Apollo Road ferry.

Following Jarrett Walker's (and Transperth's) philosophy on loop services, rather than this being 2 "360 degree" unidirectional loops you would have 2 "180 degree" bidirectional routes which just happen to change route number at Apollo Road, which is basically what happens now on weekends anyway as I understand it.  This is easier to follow.

Exact routes I couldn't claim to know what is best, but one would basically be for Thynne Rd and the eastern half of the area, with the other for Hawthorne Rd and the western half. 

Interchange should be designed around same-stop connections between the 230 and the western route at Bulimba Ferry, between the 230 and the eastern route  near the Oxford/Riding roundabout and between all 3 routes at Morningside.  Morningside allows you to transfer to trains in either direction, Stanley Rd services, Wynnum Rd services, services via the Story Bridge and services via the Gabba all in one hit.
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Offline O_128

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My issue with the story bridge is if you have ridden the 227 outbound it is a nightmare, It goes along Elizabeth st, eagle st then instead of going onto the bridge does a stupid loop through the valley for one bus stop which wastes 10 minutes, inbound from my stop its an 8-12 min outbound its 12-20
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somebody

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My issue with the story bridge is if you have ridden the 227 outbound it is a nightmare, It goes along Elizabeth st, eagle st then instead of going onto the bridge does a stupid loop through the valley for one bus stop which wastes 10 minutes, inbound from my stop its an 8-12 min outbound its 12-20
Which is why SurfRail said to use Ivory St.  I agree.  Just because the Storey Bridge is near the Valley, doesn't mean that Storey Bridge routes need to serve the Valley.  I have the same problem with P231/P236 I/B using Ann St when Adelaide St would be better for most people.  The remainder can interchange for a very frequent service to the Valley.

Riding Road, no question.  More central, which means more walk-up patronage, and more activity happening along the street.
Not sure that this is as clear cut as you appear to think.  If there was to be one route, then yes I would agree.  However, once you start to think that there should be two routes, second on Thynne Rd, I tend to think that Riding Rd should be avoided entirely.  Hawthorne Rd is more direct and would be more convenient for everyone on its west or north from Oxford St, with only a few people finding Riding Rd more convenient if there is a convenient route on Thynne Rd.

Offline Jonno

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Riding Road BUZ plus bus lane on Wynumn Road and Sharfton Ave, etc.

Offline O_128

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My issue with the story bridge is if you have ridden the 227 outbound it is a nightmare, It goes along Elizabeth st, eagle st then instead of going onto the bridge does a stupid loop through the valley for one bus stop which wastes 10 minutes, inbound from my stop its an 8-12 min outbound its 12-20
Which is why SurfRail said to use Ivory St.  I agree.  Just because the Storey Bridge is near the Valley, doesn't mean that Storey Bridge routes need to serve the Valley.  I have the same problem with P231/P236 I/B using Ann St when Adelaide St would be better for most people.  The remainder can interchange for a very frequent service to the Valley.

Riding Road, no question.  More central, which means more walk-up patronage, and more activity happening along the street.
Not sure that this is as clear cut as you appear to think.  If there was to be one route, then yes I would agree.  However, once you start to think that there should be two routes, second on Thynne Rd, I tend to think that Riding Rd should be avoided entirely.  Hawthorne Rd is more direct and would be more convenient for everyone on its west or north from Oxford St, with only a few people finding Riding Rd more convenient if there is a convenient route on Thynne Rd.


Better yet you can walk to the valley, I agree with about the riding v thynne road, give hawthorne road and thynne BUZ routes then reroute the 232 down riding road
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Offline Bulimba30A

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I have been thinking about this for quite a while.

I think the area can only support one BUZ.  If that premise is accepted then I think that it should go down Riding Road as that is more central and route it via Story Bridge/Ivory St.  HOWEVER, while not making it a BUZ, increase the frequency of 235 so it is never less than 30 min frequency and keep it heading to City via East Brisbane and Southbank.  The current 230/235 services provide an important service to/from Mowbray Tce East Brisbane area and from experience is well patronised in this area.  It would not be politically easy to drop the frequency in East Brisbane so would have to think about that some more.  While on a map Riding Rd might look like it could service the whole area, there are some serious hills between Riding Rd and Thynne Rd which would make a walk pretty intense.

I think an interchange point at Norman Park Ferry would work well (which would also be a Cityxpress stop for Wynnum Rd services as previously suggested).

I cannot support a loop service if it means travelling backwards before heading in the right direction.  No rational person would choose to go all the way to the Apollo Rd terminus before heading in the right direction. I have done this a few times and have been the only person left on the bus at Apollo Rd each time.  I simply think it would not be patronised in that way.

I agree that Morningside station could be better utilised.  However, if you try and get a route to do everything, it ends up not achieving anything well, which is why I think the BUZ should not detour via the station.  I think a separate cross-town route (aka Bulimba to Carindale) would be much better to achieve that goal.  Besides, what Stanley Rd bus uses Morningside station now?  Even Richmond Rd buses are quite a hike from the station when you look at the stop placement.  A cross town route would serve all those connections well.

Offline #Metro

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Re: Should Bulimba get a BUZ and which road? Thynne, Riding or Hawthorne Rds?
« Reply #9 on: November 11, 2011, 09:23:17 PM »
So this week I caught the 230 Thynne Road and 235 Bulimba services.

There are lots of units and shops and restaurants, I can't really see how this area is any much different to West End at Orleigh Street with the CityGlider and BUZ 199. Some of the stops are a bit close together on the section after we get off Wynnum Road, and there seems to be a lot of counter-CBD traffic in the afternoon (i.e. a lot of traffic heading towards the CBD). I'm not sure why this is and I suspect that the Gateway or tradecoast has something to do with it.

I'm a bit confused at why there is a 232 Cannon Hill service (Who wants to go to Cannon Hill from Bulimba?) and a pre-paid express bus (personally I think these pre-paid routes should be folded now that most people are on go-card anyway and we are probably never ever going to have 100% card ticketing simply because we can't put a ticket machine at each and every bus stop or have tickets sold 24/7 everywhere).

In any case, I think 2 BUZ services are warranted. Riding and Thynne Roads are far enough apart from each other by foot and also these routes are both far enough from the ferry as well. The whole place tonight was full of cars and lots of activity from the restaurants and cinemas. Much like how West End has 2 BUZ routes, as does new farm.... bulimba and balmoral should be there with that level of service too.
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STB

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Re: Should Bulimba get a BUZ and which road? Thynne, Riding or Hawthorne Rds?
« Reply #10 on: November 11, 2011, 09:43:29 PM »
So this week I caught the 230 Thynne Road and 235 Bulimba services.

There are lots of units and shops and restaurants, I can't really see how this area is any much different to West End at Orleigh Street with the CityGlider and BUZ 199. Some of the stops are a bit close together on the section after we get off Wynnum Road, and there seems to be a lot of counter-CBD traffic in the afternoon (i.e. a lot of traffic heading towards the CBD). I'm not sure why this is and I suspect that the Gateway or tradecoast has something to do with it.

I'm a bit confused at why there is a 232 Cannon Hill service (Who wants to go to Cannon Hill from Bulimba?) and a pre-paid express bus (personally I think these pre-paid routes should be folded now that most people are on go-card anyway and we are probably never ever going to have 100% card ticketing simply because we can't put a ticket machine at each and every bus stop or have tickets sold 24/7 everywhere).

In any case, I think 2 BUZ services are warranted. Riding and Thynne Roads are far enough apart from each other by foot and also these routes are both far enough from the ferry as well. The whole place tonight was full of cars and lots of activity from the restaurants and cinemas. Much like how West End has 2 BUZ routes, as does new farm.... bulimba and balmoral should be there with that level of service too.

I remember talking to the 'Grandfather' of the modern BT network (I used to work with him) that we have nowadays about the 232 and he said that local residents fought tooth and nail to keep the 232 so the oldies could maintain access to the shops and the city, even though BT/BCC were keen on removing the 232 at the time (circa 97/98).

By the way, his thoughts on the network out there as I did ask that question before I left (he was working on the pre paid city rockets at the time), was that a high frequency two way loop feeding into Morningside station was the option he thought was best at the time.

Offline #Metro

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Re: Should Bulimba get a BUZ and which road? Thynne, Riding or Hawthorne Rds?
« Reply #11 on: November 11, 2011, 10:06:21 PM »
I think it is fair that the 232 be abolished in exchange for a BUZ or two.
Two way loop to Morningside won't work-- the connecting train frequency is half hourly.
So it's not frequent enough to be called 'high frequency'.
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STB

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Re: Should Bulimba get a BUZ and which road? Thynne, Riding or Hawthorne Rds?
« Reply #12 on: November 11, 2011, 10:13:24 PM »
I think it is fair that the 232 be abolished in exchange for a BUZ or two.
Two way loop to Morningside won't work-- the connecting train frequency is half hourly.
So it's not frequent enough to be called 'high frequency'.


I get that, but when the trains are upgraded to run every 15mins...?  Or, what about during peak hour with the 231/236?

Offline #Metro

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Re: Should Bulimba get a BUZ and which road? Thynne, Riding or Hawthorne Rds?
« Reply #13 on: November 11, 2011, 10:46:51 PM »
BUZification should not be contingent on rail upgrade. Sure if/when Cleveland line gets amped up, but until that happens the BUZ can proceed directly anyway. There isn't a need to wait and it can always be reviewed again later.

I'm not sure what you mean by during peak hour. BUZ turns up and go at all hours of the day and evening...
« Last Edit: November 11, 2011, 10:54:58 PM by tramtrain »
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Offline Otto

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Re: Should Bulimba get a BUZ and which road? Thynne, Riding or Hawthorne Rds?
« Reply #14 on: November 11, 2011, 11:02:39 PM »
Just a suggestion I posted ( in the wrong place )  ;D

How about we go back in time when the route went from Bulimba to Toombul . I would envisage this BUZ would be similar to the 199 serving all stops.
The route I would suggest , Apollo Ferry, Byron, McConnell, Bulimba st, Oxford, Riding, Dutton, Hawthorne, Wynnum, Then via 230 to Cultural Cent, Then via 300 to Lancaster, Kitchener,  Zillman, Junction, Sandgate to Toombul.

Of course, it would be cheaper to just combine the current 230 and 300 routes and BUZ it rather than add a new route.

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Offline SurfRail

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Re: Should Bulimba get a BUZ and which road? Thynne, Riding or Hawthorne Rds?
« Reply #15 on: November 12, 2011, 08:09:48 AM »
Just a suggestion I posted ( in the wrong place )  ;D

How about we go back in time when the route went from Bulimba to Toombul . I would envisage this BUZ would be similar to the 199 serving all stops.
The route I would suggest , Apollo Ferry, Byron, McConnell, Bulimba st, Oxford, Riding, Dutton, Hawthorne, Wynnum, Then via 230 to Cultural Cent, Then via 300 to Lancaster, Kitchener,  Zillman, Junction, Sandgate to Toombul.

Of course, it would be cheaper to just combine the current 230 and 300 routes and BUZ it rather than add a new route.

Maybe a 230 to 300 BUZ and a 235 to Hamilton Northshore and Doomben Station BUZ (in exchange for eliminating the 232).

TransLink have confirmed that they do want to do more through-routing, particular for busway services because it will make the CBD stop capacity less congested.
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Offline #Metro

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Re: Should Bulimba get a BUZ and which road? Thynne, Riding or Hawthorne Rds?
« Reply #16 on: November 12, 2011, 08:21:41 AM »
This actually isn't a bad idea- think of all those CC 300 series terminators that can now pop down the busway.
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somebody

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Re: Should Bulimba get a BUZ and which road? Thynne, Riding or Hawthorne Rds?
« Reply #17 on: November 12, 2011, 10:11:16 AM »
So no support for running via Story Bridge & Ivory St full time?  I think that's the way it should be done.

Offline Mr X

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Re: Should Bulimba get a BUZ and which road? Thynne, Riding or Hawthorne Rds?
« Reply #18 on: November 12, 2011, 11:08:57 AM »
I've never personally been a fan of having buses go via Ivory St and then run through Eagle Street and to Parliament. To me, it seems to blatantly skip a LOT of transfers to other services. That's just me, though.
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Offline O_128

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Re: Should Bulimba get a BUZ and which road? Thynne, Riding or Hawthorne Rds?
« Reply #19 on: November 12, 2011, 11:35:15 AM »
So no support for running via Story Bridge & Ivory St full time?  I think that's the way it should be done.

To many missed transfers, not to mention congestion is horrible in the mornings. Took me 40 min to get from morningside to city one morn
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Offline Mr X

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Re: Should Bulimba get a BUZ and which road? Thynne, Riding or Hawthorne Rds?
« Reply #20 on: November 12, 2011, 11:38:48 AM »
Congestion on the Story Bridge is horrible in the afternoons too, even inbound
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somebody

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Re: Should Bulimba get a BUZ and which road? Thynne, Riding or Hawthorne Rds?
« Reply #21 on: November 12, 2011, 11:48:47 AM »
I've never personally been a fan of having buses go via Ivory St and then run through Eagle Street and to Parliament. To me, it seems to blatantly skip a LOT of transfers to other services. That's just me, though.
When'd I say Eagle St or Parliament?

There needs to be an alternate cross town service to at least the Gabba - I'd extend the 29.

somebody

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Re: Should Bulimba get a BUZ and which road? Thynne, Riding or Hawthorne Rds?
« Reply #22 on: November 12, 2011, 11:54:42 AM »
Timetable has it much faster via Story Bridge than South Bank, but might not happen in reality, I guess.

Offline Mr X

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Re: Should Bulimba get a BUZ and which road? Thynne, Riding or Hawthorne Rds?
« Reply #23 on: November 12, 2011, 12:00:01 PM »
I've never personally been a fan of having buses go via Ivory St and then run through Eagle Street and to Parliament. To me, it seems to blatantly skip a LOT of transfers to other services. That's just me, though.
When'd I say Eagle St or Parliament?

There needs to be an alternate cross town service to at least the Gabba - I'd extend the 29.

I didn't say you said that  ??? Surfrail suggested it
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Offline #Metro

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Re: Should Bulimba get a BUZ and which road? Thynne, Riding or Hawthorne Rds?
« Reply #24 on: November 12, 2011, 12:43:35 PM »
Quote
Timetable has it much faster via Story Bridge than South Bank, but might not happen in reality, I guess.

How much faster?

It is difficult to say which route should be BUZzed. One one hand you can get high speed, on the other hand you have connection opportunities at W'Gabba and Mater Hill to UQ and major centres. I won't make assumptions- i'd let TL decide in this case. It may be that one of the routes, say Riding Road gets BUZzed via Valley and then perhaps the Thynne Rd BUZ gets to go via W'Gabba or something like that.
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Offline Mr X

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Re: Should Bulimba get a BUZ and which road? Thynne, Riding or Hawthorne Rds?
« Reply #25 on: November 12, 2011, 12:54:23 PM »
I'll just say this- I used to go to school along the 230/235 route, near to where the 231 and 236 would leave as well, and every time I'd go for the 230/235 over the express just for the connections to the busway
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Offline ButFli

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Re: Should Bulimba get a BUZ and which road? Thynne, Riding or Hawthorne Rds?
« Reply #26 on: November 12, 2011, 01:48:41 PM »
Everyone suggesting Ivory Street knows that only works outbound, right?

somebody

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Re: Should Bulimba get a BUZ and which road? Thynne, Riding or Hawthorne Rds?
« Reply #27 on: November 12, 2011, 01:52:07 PM »
Everyone suggesting Ivory Street knows that only works outbound, right?
It's faster inbound also - just not the large difference which applies outbound.  Stop 210 isn't that convenient for serving the Valley anyway.

Offline SurfRail

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Re: Should Bulimba get a BUZ and which road? Thynne, Riding or Hawthorne Rds?
« Reply #28 on: November 12, 2011, 03:13:32 PM »
Everyone suggesting Ivory Street knows that only works outbound, right?

No material difference using Ann St inbound compared to Ivory St outbound. 

The big issue is getting to the bridge from the city, not the other way around.
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STB

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Re: Should Bulimba get a BUZ and which road? Thynne, Riding or Hawthorne Rds?
« Reply #29 on: November 12, 2011, 03:30:36 PM »
BUZification should not be contingent on rail upgrade. Sure if/when Cleveland line gets amped up, but until that happens the BUZ can proceed directly anyway. There isn't a need to wait and it can always be reviewed again later.

I'm not sure what you mean by during peak hour. BUZ turns up and go at all hours of the day and evening...

I wasn't talking about a BUZ, but replacing the 231/236 with a loop service to Morningside.  Mind you, this was a suggestion by that particular planner at the time when I asked the question.  It certainly wasn't me, I'm just repeating it!

Offline #Metro

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Re: Should Bulimba get a BUZ and which road? Thynne, Riding or Hawthorne Rds?
« Reply #30 on: November 12, 2011, 03:43:34 PM »
Quote
I wasn't talking about a BUZ, but replacing the 231/236 with a loop service to Morningside.  Mind you, this was a suggestion by that particular planner at the time when I asked the question.  It certainly wasn't me, I'm just repeating it!

Argh! My bad, I wasn't sure what the subject route was exactly. Thanks for the clarification.
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Re: Should Bulimba get a BUZ and which road? Thynne, Riding or Hawthorne Rds?
« Reply #31 on: November 12, 2011, 03:47:59 PM »
Everyone suggesting Ivory Street knows that only works outbound, right?

No material difference using Ann St inbound compared to Ivory St outbound. 

The big issue is getting to the bridge from the city, not the other way around.
But if you use Ivory St to reach the bridge, using Ann St the other way makes the service a bit less legible.  I could live with it though.

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Re: Should Bulimba get a BUZ and which road? Thynne, Riding or Hawthorne Rds?
« Reply #32 on: November 25, 2011, 08:18:34 AM »
I had another think about this, how does this idea sound?

1. Riding Rd BUZ via Story Bridge
2. Routes via Hawthorne Rd & Thynne Rd running every 30 minutes via the busway, coordinating to give a 15-minute frequency between cnr. Hawthorne & Wynnum Rds and 'Gabba Busway Station.
3. Ditch the 232 - it's really not that far to walk from along Lindsay St to Hawthorne Ferry terminal and from memory it's not particularly hilly in that area (been a couple of years since I've been there though, so correct me if I'm wrong).  Alternatively, you can stay on the bus a bit longer and catch the CityCat from Oxford St instead (with the added benefit of cross-river to Teneriffe and CityGlider/199 connections).
4. Cross-town route to Carindale from Oxford St CityCat via Riding Rd, Monmouth St (or Pashen St), Thynne Rd, Wynnum Rd (Morningside Station), Jack Flynn overpass, Waminda St, Agnew St, Oateson Skyline Dr, Stanley Rd, Creek Rd: http://g.co/maps/7v4e8

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Re: Should Bulimba get a BUZ and which road? Thynne, Riding or Hawthorne Rds?
« Reply #33 on: January 04, 2012, 06:22:38 AM »
From the Couriermail Quest click here!

Bulimba needs more bus services says public transport advocate

Quote
Bulimba needs more bus services says public transport advocate

    by: Alex Strachan, South-East Advertiser
    From: Quest Newspapers
    January 03, 2012 3:56PM

PUBLIC transport advocate Rail Back on Track says Brisbane City Council should introduce a BUZ bus service to Bulimba to solve the area's parking problems.

Rail Back on Track spokesman Robert Dow said last year's Bulimba paid parking row could have been avoided if more bus routes serviced the area. He proposed a BUZ service to Bulimba and Balmoral through Thynne Rd and Riding Rd.

"It is surprising that a suburb like Bulimba, with the cinema and popular restaurant district, does not have a BUZ service," spokesman Robert Dow said. "Frequent bus services are good for people, good for business and good for development."

Lord Mayor Graham Quirk said while TransLink had the final say on bus routes, he would throw his weight behind any move to get more high-frequency bus services into the suburbs, particularly at busy shopping precincts.

"If the Government's going to raise bus fares 15 per cent every year until 2014 then the extra money they're generating needs to go back into suburban services," he said.
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Offline kazzac

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Either road[Riding or Thynne rd] would be OK for me. I live closer to Thynne Rd though but I can walk home from Riding rd in about 10 minutes,Ilive on M''side Balmoral border
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Either road[Riding or Thynne rd] would be OK for me. I live closer to Thynne Rd though but I can walk home from Riding rd in about 10 minutes,Ilive on M''side Balmoral border

Welcome kazzac!   Bulimba is an area of interest to us all.

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Offline kazzac

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I had another think about this, how does this idea sound?

1. Riding Rd BUZ via Story Bridge
2. Routes via Hawthorne Rd & Thynne Rd running every 30 minutes via the busway, coordinating to give a 15-minute frequency between cnr. Hawthorne & Wynnum Rds and 'Gabba Busway Station.
3. Ditch the 232 - it's really not that far to walk from along Lindsay St to Hawthorne Ferry terminal and from memory it's not particularly hilly in that area (been a couple of years since I've been there though, so correct me if I'm wrong).  Alternatively, you can stay on the bus a bit longer and catch the CityCat from Oxford St instead (with the added benefit of cross-river to Teneriffe and CityGlider/199 connections).
4. Cross-town route to Carindale from Oxford St CityCat via Riding Rd, Monmouth St (or Pashen St), Thynne Rd, Wynnum Rd (Morningside Station), Jack Flynn overpass, Waminda St, Agnew St, Oateson Skyline Dr, Stanley Rd, Creek Rd: http://g.co/maps/7v4e8

i like this idea ,should work,yes I agree that one of these routes  should continues to serve W'gabba,Mater Hill,etc
only an occasional PT user now!

Offline Gazza

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Re: Should Bulimba get a BUZ and which road? Thynne, Riding or Hawthorne Rds?
« Reply #37 on: February 09, 2013, 12:53:19 PM »
First Bulimba BUZ topic I found, but with the Via Storey Bridge versus Via South Bank, what is the reason for routing via Storey Bridge?

Both options are idential time wise....Is it just about giving Kangaroo Point a BUZ?

somebody

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Re: Should Bulimba get a BUZ and which road? Thynne, Riding or Hawthorne Rds?
« Reply #38 on: February 09, 2013, 02:54:02 PM »
I'm sure it's not about Kangaroo Point.

Probably traffic congestion has increased on the Story Bridge since it was implemented.

Offline SurfRail

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Re: Should Bulimba get a BUZ and which road? Thynne, Riding or Hawthorne Rds?
« Reply #39 on: February 10, 2013, 04:15:00 AM »
Less congestion for the Cultural Centre I suppose, especially if taken with upgrades to the 220 sending it the same way.
Ride the G:

 

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“You can't understand a city without using its public transportation system.” -- Erol Ozan