Article: Train passengers willing to pay extra to secure a seat ...

[ozbob]

From the Courier Mail click here!

Train passengers willing to pay extra to secure a seat, reduce waiting time, report finds

Train passengers willing to pay extra to secure a seat, reduce waiting time, report finds

    by Robyn Ironside
    From: The Courier-Mail
    July 18, 2011 12:00AM

COMMUTERS would be prepared to pay up to $4 extra to get a seat on a train and as much as $5.80 to avoid a five-minute delay.

A report released today by the Tourism and Transport Forum has found time really is money to passengers, with every extra minute of unexpected waiting time worth $1.15.

But of most value to commuters was securing a seat in peak periods, with the research finding it was worth $3.97 to passengers to not have to stand.

The Improving Your Commute report recommended public transport providers take advantage of commuters' willingness to pay for better service by trialling a "premium carriage" on trains.

Premium passengers would be guaranteed a seat but would also have access to drinks, free newspapers and wi-fi.

The report also raised the possibility of making the carriages child and student-free.

The TTF's John Lee said it was clear people "were prepared to pay a bit more for a discernible difference in service" but a Brisbane-based commuter group labelled the idea unworkable.

Robert Dow, of public transport advocacy group Back on Track, said southeast Queensland simply did not have the rail infrastructure to support premium carriages.

"Already (trains) are struggling just to meet commuter demand," Mr Dow said.

"To further restrict capacity by classifying some carriages as premium would mean others were even more congested."

Other report recommendations to lift customer service on public transport included quiet carriages, an integrated ticketing system, free wi-fi and memory timetables.

Mr Lee acknowledged that Queensland Rail had "led the country" in the adoption of quiet carriages, wi-fi was being trialled and Translink's go card was also a positive innovation.

"Not only does Queensland get boasting rights for the State of Origin, it would appear you get boasting rights for public transport in terms of innovation," he said.

The Minister for Transport, Annastacia Palaszczuk, said no other state did public transport better than Queensland.

"We can always do more though which is why we'll continue to provide more services through the biggest transport infrastructure projects in the country," Ms Palaszczuk said.

Mr Dow said Queensland Rail had focused on customer service in an effort to make up for "poor frequency".

"The real problem on our network is frequency but they can't do a lot to change that because of the lack of infrastructure," he said. "Until we get cross-river rail done, we're pretty much stuck."

Reliability and frequency were identified as the most important elements of public transport to commuters, followed by access to services, interchange and overcrowding.

[ozbob]

The TTF web site is http://www.ttf.org.au/default.aspx

Hopefully this report will be available in due course.  For the record I did comment that once 9 car super expresses were running post CRR (Sunshine and Gold Coast) premium carriages may be a option.  I understand that despite the figures reported commuters have actually raised fares as a major issue.  Also the report confirms I understand that frequency and reliability is a major issue, as we all have noted many many times ...

[ozbob]

The Melbourne context,  V/Line already does have a 'premium' seating option, first class ..

From the Herald Sun click here!

Public transport commuters back premium service idea

Public transport commuters back premium service idea

   Nick Leys
   From: Herald Sun
   July 18, 2011 12:00AM

COMMUTERS are prepared to pay more for improved conditions on public transport, including access to a premium service.

Public transport passengers are willing to pay as much as $4 on top of standard daily travel costs to avoid an over-crowded carriage, while most would pay an extra 25 per cent for a premium service to guarantee seats and access to newspapers and wi-fi.

Asked how much more they would be willing to pay to avoid service delays, commuters said they would pay $1.15 for every minute, and an extra 66 cents a minute extra to avoid being late.

Only 18 per cent said they would pay an extra amount for a child-free carriage, while just 15 per cent said they would pay to sit in a "quiet" carriage where passengers refrain from loud conversations and musical devices.

The results of the customer survey will be published today by peak national body the Tourism and Transport Forum (TTF).

Its report Improving Your Commute has found that implementing metro-style services that run every five to 15 minutes instead of to a set timetable, and the publication of performance benchmarks by transport operators, are among several options to encourage increased usage of train, bus, tram and ferry services.

The TTF says the results indicate operators should act on commuter willingness to pay extra for a better service and trial initiatives such as a premium service that would encourage more usage and increase revenue.

TTF chief executive John Lee said the report made clear commuter concerns about timetables and reliability, and how these factors influenced their usage of public service.

"The report makes a series of recommendations to help improve the customer experience and perception of public transport by removing uncertainty around the journey and giving customers a sense of control," he said.

"Potential improvements include trialling 'quiet carriages', which are proving popular on Queensland services, while wi-fi access at interchanges and on transport services can help customers use their travel time more productively, transforming the perception of commuting as lost time."

"In addition, smartcards reduce customer uncertainty about ticketing and help with demand management and scheduling."

Mr Lee said congestion in the major cities was costing Australia $13.5 billion a year.

"It is vital to our mobility that public transport carries an increasing proportion of the nation's passenger transport task," he said.

The survey spoke to more than 2000 commuters in Melbourne, Sydney, Brisbane and Adelaide.

[ozbob]

The Sydney context ...

From The Daily Telegraph click here!

Peak-hour revolution to fix Sydney and the NSW transport system

    Rhys Haynes Transport Reporter
    From: The Daily Telegraph
    July 18, 2011 12:00AM

SYDNEY'S complex and unreliable public transport timetables should be scrapped and replaced by frequent peak-period bus, train and ferry services, according to a report released today.

A major investment in upgrading technology for commuters to provide real-time information should also be a priority for Sydney's transport system, according to a research report by the Tourism Transport Forum (TTF).

The TTF report also features several radical ideas, including giving train passengers the option of paying more for so-called "premium carriages", which guarantee a seat, refreshments and services like newspapers.

Another proposal is the introduction of quiet carriages on peak services, which would ban school children and loud talking on phones.

The report was prepared by PricewaterhouseCoopers and included a national survey and interviews with public transport operators, on behalf of more than 200 of Australia's biggest tourism and transport corporations.

It will be sent to the state government to offer short-term affordable solutions to fix commuter and congestion problems. It claims the government should replace timetabled services to improve customer perceptions of reliability and frequency.

The popularity of Sydney's Metrobuses - frequent services running without a timetable - have paved the way for an overhaul of all forms of public transport, according to TTF chief executive John Lee.

"If you have enough of trains or buses turning up at regular intervals, more people will just turn up knowing another one will be there soon," Mr Lee said.

Unreliability, overcrowding and having to interchange between services are key reasons people avoid using public transport, according to the report titled Lifting Customer Service in Public Transport.

"Customers have an aversion to the uncertainty that occurs when services are unreliable," the report found.

"(They) would also prefer to avoid the delays associated with waiting for services to arrive."

Improving technology with texts and apps would be simple and greatly improve certainty when it comes to services, it found.

"Real-time information means providing customers with information about specific services direct to their current location.

"Providing this information to customers gives them greater control in managing their travel and reduces the risks and uncertainty associated with service delays."

The report said the premium carriage concept "is likely to hold greater appeal to longer distance travellers".

Other ideas include:

    PUBLIC benchmarking of performance;
    IMPROVEMENTS to transport interchanges, and;
    FREE Wi-Fi on buses, trains, trams and ferries.

Transport Minister Gladys Berejiklian said the state's transport agencies were all being overhauled.

"The O'Farrell government has already announced the new integrated transport authority Transport for NSW will have a customer service division solely dedicated to improving customer service," she said. "Improving the timeliness and quality of information provided to commuters is a priority and the department is examining ways to make best use of GPS and real-time technology."

Transport for NSW will also be responsible for coordinating public transport timetables, she said.

[#Metro]

The Minister for Transport, Annastacia Palaszczuk, said no other state did public transport better than Queensland.

I think the honorable minister really needs to be given a ticket to Perth quicksmart! We have the 2nd worst train system in the country, and down the bottom internationally along with Adelaide and Auckland IMHO.

[ozbob]

It is little wonder that the polls have Labor now underground, way beneath the cellar.  Part of the reason is the constant public disengagment from reality as you point out TT.

A better response IMO, would be " ... excellent that Queensland Rail has been recognised for their customer service intiatives, but we acknowledge more needs to be done for improving frequency and reliability. Cross River Rail is an essential part of that ..."

And it is interesting that a lot of drivers for customer service have been supported by the Queensland Rail Community Reference Group process carried out for a number of years now.  Our constant calls to have TransLink embark on similiar activities for the bus regions are just ignored.

[#Metro]

t is little wonder that the polls have Labor now underground, way beneath the cellar.  Part of the reason is the constant public disengagment from reality as you point out TT.

A better response IMO, would be " ... excellent that Queensland Rail has been recognised for their customer service intiatives, but we acknowledge more needs to be done for improving frequency and reliability. Cross River Rail is an essential part of that ..."

And it is interesting that a lot of drivers for customer service have been supported by the Queensland Rail Community Reference Group process carried out for a number of years now.  Our constant calls to have TransLink embark on similiar activities for the bus regions are just ignored.

Yes. I think it is a compensation effect as QR may not hold the $$$ card- fix up everything else except for frequency. (No, sorry, peak timetable re-arrangements don't count). We need radical surgery on the rail timetable and I think radical rail timetable emergency surgery plus core frequent networks should both become election issues. How a 140+ train network serving four cities (170 000 passenger trips/day) and multiple lines can almost be outdone by ONE ~10 station busway (150 000 passenger trips/day) should be ringing alarm bells left right and centre!

And its not because "the rail system is designed for long trips"-- its not. Almost half the stations on the QR network are within the Brisbane City Council area! 80 stations- that's 4 times more train stations than busway stations within the City of Brisbane! 4 times! Running buses to train stations would create the same feeder effect that we see when buses run from suburbs straight into the busways.

Queensland Rail can tell you in 5 languages-- that your train is STILL 30 minutes away! C'mon, it's not 1988 anymore!!!

[#Metro]

Decent.Rail.Frequency.NOW

[ozbob]

CM poll 8.45am here!

Would you pay extra to guarantee a seat on public transport?

    Yes 18.58% (167 votes)
     No 81.42% (732 votes)

Total votes: 899

[ozbob]

Report is going up on the TTF site now --> http://www.ttf.org.au/default.aspx

Direct download from here --> http://www.ttf.org.au/Content/improvingcommute0711.aspx

[#Metro]

Interchange – customers will typically seek to avoid interchange during a journey. This is largely because interchange can involve the risk of delay and uncertainty for customers; and

and later on expands on this.

The barrier to interchange isn't so much the act of transferring, it is the uncertainty and waiting time
involved. If you deal with uncertainty directly and improve legibility (proper maps, live apps, PIDs and
frequent connections) then you can have a good system.

So there are two types of interchange

Good interchange
Bad interchange

A direct route bus that appears at random times or "sometimes" terminates somewhere different depending on the time of day
is probably going to suffer similar problems as a interchange service which doesn't connect properly or gives passengers too
much uncertainty over when their connection will arrive.

[ozbob]

Interesting stat is that the average number of trips by frequent users is 7.3 trips per week (page 11).  I think this is important as it supports lowering the frequent user discount on go card from the present 10 journeys to 8 or 9.  No real revenue implications but may actually drive increased patronage overall with a higher fare box return (as discussed here!)

The international fare comparison (page 23) is for single journey only (doesn't say if paper or go card in the case of Brisbane), and doesn't take into account the other ticketing initiatives such as daily capping etc.  (See http://www.schooliesfornerds.com/2011/06/train-travel-fare-comparison-four-australian-cities-vs-three-international-cities/ for how this changes things a little ... )

[justanotheruser]

fancy suggesting premium carriages for sydney as well!!! The trains which are eight carriages long and double decker are generally jam packed now. Where would you find the room for a premium carriage??? In off-peak it won't be an issue most of the time if at all.


Seem as QR requires me to read the newspaper I have since saturday and articles are showing a bias towards Newman and showing pictures of Bligh looking run down and tired which were taken during the natural disaters earlier this year so people will see that and be subconciously swayed to vote LNP. So that is the death for sure now.



off-topic- Can anyone explain why QR decided not to put notices up at Ipswich station advertising trackwork? When asked their response was "We put ads in the paper"

[justanotheruser]

It is little wonder that the polls have Labor now underground, way beneath the cellar.  Part of the reason is the constant public disengagment from reality as you point out TT.

A better response IMO, would be " ... excellent that Queensland Rail has been recognised for their customer service intiatives, but we acknowledge more needs to be done for improving frequency and reliability. Cross River Rail is an essential part of that ..."

And it is interesting that a lot of drivers for customer service have been supported by the Queensland Rail Community Reference Group process carried out for a number of years now.  Our constant calls to have TransLink embark on similiar activities for the bus regions are just ignored.

Are you just talkingh about private bus companies here? If not why did BT stop similar exercise? They used to setup in a suburb usually outside a supermarket and hive you a free coffee and asj you to fill out a feedback form (not set questions yay!) and discuss with you.

[ozbob]

Are you just talkingh about private bus companies here?

Bus regions, analagous in some ways to the different lines.  Not operator specific at all in a general sense, although some regions may only have one operator.

I suspect BT stopped doing the local consults because TransLink came into being ...

[ozbob]

The 'premium' carriage stuff is actually not quite inline with the feedback re fares in their report in a general sense.  I do understand in part what I think what they are getting at, more at the long haul. V/Line has some first class seating on some services (See --> http://www.vline.com.au/fares-and-tickets/tickets/firstclass.html ).  Simply designating a carriage on subs as a premium is never going to fly IMHO.

If and when 9 car expresses were running in from Sunshine Coast and Gold Coast post CRR, the notion of a premium carriage could possibly be entertained.  This is just another name for first class in effect.

[BrizCommuter]

http://brizcommuter.blogspot.com/2011/07/train-passengers-willing-to-pay-extra.html
BrizCommuter is looking forward to sipping champagne and eating a gourmet cooked breakfast in the Ferny Grove Line's first class carriage. 

[Fares_Fair]

http://brizcommuter.blogspot.com/2011/07/train-passengers-willing-to-pay-extra.html
BrizCommuter is looking forward to sipping champagne and eating a gourmet cooked breakfast in the Ferny Grove Line's first class carriage.  

Wouldn't it just be finished cooking as you arrived at your destination ?  
whereas on the Sunshine Coast line .. it could get well and truly burnt !

'Clink' of champagne glasses.

Regards,
Fares_Fair.

[HappyTrainGuy]

The NCL already has the premium service express train. The Tilts 

[ozbob]

Now, a steam powered rail motor would be sure to attract a few, a buffet breakfast, complete with a choice of National broadsheets enroute on the morning commute mandatory of course!



Seriously though, there is some worthwhile information in the report by TTF, even if the 'premium carriages' is not resonating well with the masses ..

The CM blog is not very complimentary to the idea at all ..

[#Metro]

Check out the comments on the CM Blog.
You can't run, You can't hide. PERTH EXISTS.

Anderson of Brisbane Posted at 11:34 PM July 17, 2011
What a stupid waste of time. These non-experts should simply copy what big cities do such as in Tokyo - there they have a sensible seating design in trains to accommodate more people, instead of the totally useless way they do it in Brisbane which takes up space, makes people try o sit knee to knee in all sorts of contortions etc. We should do what works and is prove elsewhere. Take note QR!
Comment 1 of 106

Michael Garcia of Oxend Posted at 1:23 AM Today
Why can`t we look at WA transperth rail its fast, follows a straight highways its the best rail service I have ever taken no need to pay extra
Comment 3 of 106

Frank of Nundah Posted at 7:26 AM Today
"The Minister for Transport, Annastacia Palaszczuk, said no other state did public transport better than Queensland." You would have to be kidding,try Vic & W.A. for starters.
Comment 21 of 106

^^^ World class busways, worst class railways...

Malcolm of Beattie st Posted at 7:45 AM Today
Wait till they start charging for parking, they'll make a fortune!!!!
Comment 28 of 106

Solutions:

* Run more frequent off peak trains. WHY has this been so hard to get done?!
* Fix up the seating on suburban rollingstock. Get rid of some seats. Yes, I know everyone wants THEIR seat, but less seats = more capacity. During the off peak there will be a seat for everyone anyway as demand is much lower.
* Charge for parking where carparks are full and overflowing. This generates revenue which can be fed into local feeder station buses, and feeder services to shopping centres.
* For the love of heaven, PLEASE STOP with the WE ARE #1 chestbeating. Do you really think the voters don't know that the rail system has no clothes? Our rail system SUCKS!!!

[Fares_Fair]

Now, a steam powered rail motor would be sure to attract a few, a buffet breakfast, complete with a choice of National broadsheets enroute on the morning commute mandatory of course!



Seriously though, there is some worthwhile information in the report by TTF, even if the 'premium carriages' is not resonating well with the masses ..

The CM blog is not very complimentary to the idea at all ..

After reading through much of the blog, that's an understatement !
It receives a resounding no because everyone knows the current service levels are not coping at peak.
Nor can they until the infrastructure is improved.


Regards,
Fares_Fair.

[Arnz]

A lot of bloggers in that article need to get a grip on things (and many don't have a clue  ).. "I've PAID to get a SEAT, not stand" and one person saying "CRR is not required, modernising the trains and using the Tennyson line to fix capacity"     .. dear oh dear.. 

[Gazza]

I'm at work so don't have time, but could we whip out a press release that shows how Perth does PT better than SEQ.....not just on the train frequency, but on a wide variety of metrics like train travel speed, number of high frequency routes, feeder buses,mode share, cost recovery, yes, fares too.
Anastacia has shat me off with that little line and the media needs to put her and her department in its place.

[#Metro]

Hahaha! Do it! We can "release" our own report directly comparing Perth to Brisbane.
The systems, when you remove the long distance routes like Sunshine Coast Line, are directly comparable (as much as this makes people wince in pain and run for the safety of denial).

[ozbob]

The feedback has been very direct already.  I think our position is very clear.  Radio 4BC is doing a session on it later this afternoon, around 3.20pm or so, no need for a release as such.

[ozbob]

[Interesting observation, this thread has had the fastest rising hit counter for a thread on this board ever ...  ]

[#Metro]

http://www.transperth.wa.gov.au/
Go to Train Timetables and weep Brisbane!

15 minute trains, double the frequency to everywhere in a city SMALLER than Brisbane!
And that's not only on the "new" lines either- the old lines have high frequency as well!

The Queensland Government is only too happy to talk up busways because it distracts from
what we KNOW is the TERRIBLE "world's worst practice" service the train system is.
Mandurah 70km away in la la land gets more train frequency than Ipswich which is just 38 km away and has major centres of density along it (Toowong/Indooroopilly)!

[ozbob]

CM Poll  2.03pm here!

Would you pay extra to guarantee a seat on public transport?

    Yes 20.31% (424 votes)
     No 79.69% (1664 votes)

Total votes: 2088

[Gazza]

The feedback has been very direct already.  I think our position is very clear.  Radio 4BC is doing a session on it later this afternoon, around 3.20pm or so, no need for a release as such.

I know, but not everyone listens to talkback. I reckon it's worth riding off this public discontent. Tramtrain, I know their rail service gets the limelight, but there are plenty of other things about Perth that deserve mentioning too.

[ozbob]

Yeah, we will see how the day unfolds ... 

[#Metro]

I know, but not everyone listens to talkback. I reckon it's worth riding off this public discontent. Tramtrain, I know their rail service gets the limelight, but there are plenty of other things about Perth that deserve mentioning too.

High frequency on trains! * ROAR *

[Fares_Fair]

Hahaha! Do it! We can "release" our own report directly comparing Perth to Brisbane.
The systems, when you remove the long distance routes like Sunshine Coast Line, are directly comparable (as much as this makes people wince in pain and run for the safety of denial).

Are we that good    

Regards,
Fares_Fair.

[Gazza]

What he's getting is that Perth and Bris have reasonably similar systems in terms of reach, except in Qld we have a couple of longer lines to the coasts that dangle off each end.

[ozbob]

CM Poll 7.05am 19th July 2011 here!

Would you pay extra to guarantee a seat on public transport?

    Yes 18.72% (532 votes)
     No 81.28% (2310 votes)

Total votes: 2842

[dwb]

Solutions:

* Run more frequent off peak trains. WHY has this been so hard to get done?!
* Fix up the seating on suburban rollingstock. Get rid of some seats. Yes, I know everyone wants THEIR seat, but less seats = more capacity. During the off peak there will be a seat for everyone anyway as demand is much lower.
* Charge for parking where carparks are full and overflowing. This generates revenue which can be fed into local feeder station buses, and feeder services to shopping centres.
* For the love of heaven, PLEASE STOP with the WE ARE #1 chestbeating. Do you really think the voters don't know that the rail system has no clothes? Our rail system SUCKS!!!

Yes Yes Yes! +1

[BribieG]

I was watching one of those "relocation relocation" lifestyle shows - being  a Pom it's a nice nostalgia trip seeing old villages and houses etc. In this episode the young professional couple had to move a lot further out of London than their budget actually allowed so they switched to commuting by rail from somewhere in Essex IIRC.

"That's ok" said the lass, "I can go business class and assured of a seat and can catch up with work on the laptop on the way in....". BC looked very acceptable. In the USA they have club cars (there was a whole movie set in one) - commuters seem to be valued in other parts of the world, why does Brisbane only offer cattle class? Some sort of unwritten-mateship-of-the-fair-go classless society long-defunct idea maybe?

[Golliwog]

Because until there are significant capacity upgrades on the rail network, it's just not viable during peak. Yes you would possibly fill the carriage, but you would get complaints from people that no longer fit on their usual train and thus are either late, squished, or both.

[O_128]

A lot of bloggers in that article need to get a grip on things (and many don't have a clue  ).. "I've PAID to get a SEAT, not stand" and one person saying "CRR is not required, modernising the trains and using the Tennyson line to fix capacity"     .. dear oh dear.. 

Had this argument with my parents last night, after about an hour I finally managed to convince them that CRR is badly needed, Basically involved reading them the ICRCS and explaining headways lol.

[justanotheruser]

I was watching one of those "relocation relocation" lifestyle shows - being  a Pom it's a nice nostalgia trip seeing old villages and houses etc. In this episode the young professional couple had to move a lot further out of London than their budget actually allowed so they switched to commuting by rail from somewhere in Essex IIRC.

"That's ok" said the lass, "I can go business class and assured of a seat and can catch up with work on the laptop on the way in....". BC looked very acceptable. In the USA they have club cars (there was a whole movie set in one) - commuters seem to be valued in other parts of the world, why does Brisbane only offer cattle class? Some sort of unwritten-mateship-of-the-fair-go classless society long-defunct idea maybe?

I don't believe we have ever had cattle class here in Oz unlike the UK where it was open carriages and everyone stood. All that stuff sounds nice but at the end of the day ther is better stuff to be spending money on. Personally I don't believe trains should introduce free wi-fi. Why should I as a taxpayer pay for others to access the internet. Pay for it yourself as mobile internet is available now. What we can support is increased frequency across the entire network especially when some upgrade work is done.