Wynnum Road BUZ- Your thoughts

[#Metro]

Which BUZ along Wynnum Road?

Make sure you say why so that some detail about how you came to your decision is recorded.
Poll will run for 2 days.

Please specify if you choose 'other'.

[Mr X]

Where does this BUZ245 go?

[#Metro]

http://s998.photobucket.com/albums/af104/tramtrain/?action=view&current=BUZ245.jpg&sort=ascending
http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=5684.0

[SurfRail]

Step 1 - delete the 215, 216 and 221.
Step 2 - get the soon to commence 213 operating as the 215/216 replacement.
Step 3 - make the following changes to Route 214 and 220

- Route 214 is renumbered to some appropriate route number (maybe even re-use 215, it is the same route as before just with the end chopped off) and operates along its current route.
- Route 220 is routed via Kangaroo Point and Wynnum Road, then current route to Manly/Wondall Road.  It then goes as follows:  Wondall Road, Randall Rd and Plaza St to Wynnum Plaza, then existing route to Wynnum Central Station.  Possible extension towards Manly instead of terminating at Pandanus Beach.  CBD terminus to be determined.

I think it should be feasible to have 6 eastern BUZ routes oriented on the CBD
- some combination of the 200 and 222 (with the Carindale Heights extension but going via Buranda)
- what appears to be the routing of the upcoming 205
- the existing 210 but terminating at Carindale
- the 214 as above
- the 220 as above
- the 231. 

You will also have the 590 and the potential for a further cross-town route inwards of the GCL orbital and its descendants once it is canned.  I am thinking between the Bulimba area and Coopers Plains station via QEII Hospital, the GU campuses, Logan Road, Holland Road, Boundary Road, Camp Hill, Skyline Drive, Morningside Station, Thynne Road and Bulimba Ferry.

[O_128]

Much prefer the 245, the 227 gets caught in so much traffic through the city and valley in peak hour and take up to 30 min just to get over the storey bridge, much prefer a via woolongabba and terminating at manly station due to more services and better interchange.

[#Metro]

I think the sticker was should it serve Wynnum plaza or not.
Unless there are bus lanes on the Story Bridge, no. If it goes over TSB then probably not a good idea IMHO.

We might have to cut and paste bits of various routes to get a compromise.

[somebody]

Must have missed this topic.  I definitely see the need to serve Wynnum Plaza - dual action.  I don't know why you see the need to add yet another route to Brisbane's PT.

Much prefer the 245, the 227 gets caught in so much traffic through the city and valley in peak hour and take up to 30 min just to get over the storey bridge, much prefer a via woolongabba and terminating at manly station due to more services and better interchange.

I think the solution to this would be to use the Ivory St tunnel rather than go via the Valley.  Valley-Manly Rd trips can be done involving a transfer e.g. train to Morningside or bus from Valley to Adelaide St (vice versa in the AM).

Step 1 - delete the 215, 216 and 221.
Step 2 - get the soon to commence 213 operating as the 215/216 replacement.
Step 3 - make the following changes to Route 214 and 220

I'd delete the 216 and 213, and add the Belmont peak service on to the 211 by just extending along Meadowlands Rd.  Is there any reason a peak only route needs to run to a shopping centre?  That also has the benefit of giving a decent peak service to Meadowlands Rd rather than the 204 and 206, neither of which are particularly direct.

[Fattious]

Placing express stops at morningside central and Morningside shops for 216 and 221 would alleviate heavy loadings on the peak 227. It also provides some express options for the Morningside and cannon hill section of wynnum road.

[somebody]

Placing express stops at morningside central and Morningside shops for 216 and 221 would alleviate heavy loadings on the peak 227. It also provides some express options for the Morningside and cannon hill section of wynnum road.

I think Mowbray Park ferry would also make sense.

[Bulimba30A]

My thoughts on the Wynnum Rd corridor have already been posted on here somewhere.

At the risk of repeating myself, I think a one BUZ solution is not the ideal option here, but rather a frequent corridor made up of 2, 3 or possibly 4 routes (without losing the all stops 227).  You absolutely need to service both Manly Rd and Wondall Rd as those are the farthest from the train and my preference would also be for Belmont Rd to be covered as well.

Apart from peak hour, Wynnum Rd/Story Bridge is the much faster, direct route into the City.  And even in peak hour, I'd still prefer to go via Story Bridge as it is usually moving somewhat as the alternate is quite windy and you are approaching the City from the opposite directioon.  I agree that Wynnum Rd services should use Story Bridge via Ivory St, while leaving the 227 to cover the Valley.  That should speed things up.

I would say NO, NO and NO to canning the P216.  It gets good loads and is the only decent service out of Belmont at all!  The only thing I would change is there to be a stop at Morningside station, so if the traffic is banked up to there you can switch to the train.  Some drivers do it already but others blatently refuse even though you are stuck in traffic for a good 2 minutes right beside the stop.  For off-peak - a frequent all day 213 OR half hourly limited express/Cityxpress to the City via Wynnum Rd is what I'd support (ie, nothing via Seven Hills). 

The idea that the 211 should do this is, in my opinion, nothing short of ridiculous.  It would add a good 15-20 mins to the trip.  While Meadowlands/Stanley Rd is actually quite quick for cars when Wynnum Rd is congested, a car doesn't stop all stops and cars also use Ferguson Rd.

Also, for any limited express/cityxpress, it would make much more sense for there to be an express stop at Morningside station, not the shops.  That 200 metres or so between the railway bridge and Thynne has a lot of potential for a good connection point between Wynnum Rd and the train and it would work well for any cross-twon route (eg Bulimba - Carindale). 

[somebody]

The idea that the 211 should do this is, in my opinion, nothing short of ridiculous.  It would add a good 15-20 mins to the trip.  While Meadowlands/Stanley Rd is actually quite quick for cars when Wynnum Rd is congested, a car doesn't stop all stops and cars also use Ferguson Rd.

Is it that bad?  Getting to the bottom of Belmont would be faster on the 211 - timetable reckons 27 minutes to Creek/Stanley from City Hall so add another 5 minutes to Belmont Rd. As opposed to approx 40 minutes on P216 to Meadowlands Rd/Wright St.  Probably the break even would be on Castlerea St.  I'd think you could just walk from a Wynnum road service north of here.

I'm more thinking of a reasonable peak hour service to Meadowlands Rd though, and increasing frequency beyond there.

[somebody]

Apart from peak hour, Wynnum Rd/Story Bridge is the much faster, direct route into the City.  And even in peak hour, I'd still prefer to go via Story Bridge as it is usually moving somewhat as the alternate is quite windy and you are approaching the City from the opposite directioon.  I agree that Wynnum Rd services should use Story Bridge via Ivory St, while leaving the 227 to cover the Valley.  That should speed things up.

Do we have to have the 227 via Warner St O/B? It's an easy interchange to Adelaide St (except that the 227 uses Queen St), and still far faster than going via South Bank. Same for the 232.

[Fattious]

The 6:05pm outbound 227 on Thursday was full when departing Edward Street. We cruised past Eagle Street and Fortitude Valley unable to pick up pax. For those left on the footpath, the next service is an hour later.

The reason for being at capacity was due to the 232 that was scheduled 15 minutes prior running 15 minutes late. This resulted in the majority of the 232 passengers taking the 227 as the 232 had not arrived.

I also often observe that when concurrent 227 and 232 services at 4:50 and 5:20 are in operation, overcrowding does not occur, but if the 232 is late, the 227 becomes full.

The promised short run inbound 227 that was due to commence 6th June is supposed to be put into service in the next round of timetabling, which is either end of this month or next. Hopefully more significant enhancements will be put in place at the next release.

[Bulimba30A]

The idea that the 211 should do this is, in my opinion, nothing short of ridiculous.  It would add a good 15-20 mins to the trip.  While Meadowlands/Stanley Rd is actually quite quick for cars when Wynnum Rd is congested, a car doesn't stop all stops and cars also use Ferguson Rd.

Is it that bad?  Getting to the bottom of Belmont would be faster on the 211 - timetable reckons 27 minutes to Creek/Stanley from City Hall so add another 5 minutes to Belmont Rd. As opposed to approx 40 minutes on P216 to Meadowlands Rd/Wright St.  Probably the break even would be on Castlerea St.  I'd think you could just walk from a Wynnum road service north of here.

I'm more thinking of a reasonable peak hour service to Meadowlands Rd though, and increasing frequency beyond there.

I was more thinking the inbound run than the outbound run.  On the very rare occasions I finish work early enough to catch the last P216 in PM (say twice a year), it has arrived 10 mins early at Belmont Rd shops.

I think Meadowlands Rd would be better served by a full time Cityxpress route which runs around the estates around the bus depot which have no public transport (Fursden/Kate etc) before heading down Meadowlands and Stanley Rds (that is what I thought the P217 would have been good for but cest la vie).

[Bulimba30A]

Apart from peak hour, Wynnum Rd/Story Bridge is the much faster, direct route into the City.  And even in peak hour, I'd still prefer to go via Story Bridge as it is usually moving somewhat as the alternate is quite windy and you are approaching the City from the opposite directioon.  I agree that Wynnum Rd services should use Story Bridge via Ivory St, while leaving the 227 to cover the Valley.  That should speed things up.

Do we have to have the 227 via Warner St O/B? It's an easy interchange to Adelaide St (except that the 227 uses Queen St), and still far faster than going via South Bank. Same for the 232.

The issue with that is that it isn't a convenient transfer as 227 uses Edward and Elizabeth Sts and requires travelling backwards.  It would also be pretty frustrating travelling directly passed the entrance to the Story Bridge to transfer to the City to catch a bus which actually uses the Story Bridge.  I'd likely have a different comment is there were full time direct services from Valley direct to Shafston Ave and Gabba busway (with the latter perhaps just upping the 475 frequency between City and PA Hospital).

[somebody]

But I think the frustration of needing to run via Warner St for city outweighs the Valley pax.  You could also make it an Adelaide St route rather than an Edward St route and that would improve the quality of the interchange.  I/B it doesn't make as much difference.

BTW, there needs to be different Valley-Shaftston Av & Valley Main St routes to allow interchange.  Unless I'm mistaken.

[O_128]

But I think the frustration of needing to run via Warner St for city outweighs the Valley pax.  You could also make it an Adelaide St route rather than an Edward St route and that would improve the quality of the interchange.  I/B it doesn't make as much difference.

BTW, there needs to be different Valley-Shaftston Av & Valley Main St routes to allow interchange.  Unless I'm mistaken.

Interchange at adelaide st?, it takes 10 min sometimes to do the valley loop, its not worth it.

[somebody]

Sorry, that should have been "there needs to be different Valley-Shaftston Av & Valley Main St routes to allow interchange on the south side of the river"

[somebody]

I think Meadowlands Rd would be better served by a full time Cityxpress route which runs around the estates around the bus depot which have no public transport (Fursden/Kate etc) before heading down Meadowlands and Stanley Rds (that is what I thought the P217 would have been good for but cest la vie).

But what has made BUZ successful is being more or less direct.  Why use Fursden/Kate.  There is nothing on the north side.  At least running along Meadowlands there are potential users on either side.

[SurfRail]

The Belmont area routes are all shot, in my opinion.  There is no need to have so many variations between Carindale and Meadowlands Road.  Why can't everything just go up Bedivere Street and turn left or right onto Meadowlands Road as needed?  And for that matter, what is the point of the 204 going past the depot to the Clem Jones Centre?

[somebody]

And for that matter, what is the point of the 204 going past the depot to the Clem Jones Centre?

I'm not sure, but I assume at one time this idea made some sense.  Surely not just a way of turning around.

[somebody]

The Belmont area routes are all shot, in my opinion. 

Meant to say I think you may be right.  There's no need for the 213 if 215/216 are to continue so I'm guessing it's largely posturing to remove other routes.

[SurfRail]

The Belmont area routes are all shot, in my opinion. 

Meant to say I think you may be right.  There's no need for the 213 if 215/216 are to continue so I'm guessing it's largely posturing to remove other routes.

I wouldn't have an issue with either (a) the 213 feeding Carindale routes and no 215 or 216; or (b) revert to the previous position.  Maintaining both is stupid for several reasons.  The 216 and 213 stop on opposite sides of the road and they do not take the same route, for 2 of the bigger examples. 

Why is it so hard for them to keep the network simple?  They pick the most complicated way of doing things.  They are also inconsistent - why is the 213 a shuttle and not the 205?

I really don't know what level of logic they are operating on anymore.

[somebody]

I really don't know what level of logic they are operating on anymore.

Never seen them use much.

[Bulimba30A]

I think Meadowlands Rd would be better served by a full time Cityxpress route which runs around the estates around the bus depot which have no public transport (Fursden/Kate etc) before heading down Meadowlands and Stanley Rds (that is what I thought the P217 would have been good for but cest la vie).

But what has made BUZ successful is being more or less direct.  Why use Fursden/Kate.  There is nothing on the north side.  At least running along Meadowlands there are potential users on either side.

Firstly I'm not advocating a BUZ. 

Secondly, the route I propose would still be direct for Meadowlands Rd commuters (as it would be clockwise on the inbound run) unless the route is extended to Carindale (which has some merit) in which case the outbound run would need to be clockwise.  In any event, I would still maintain that is better for Meadowlands Rd than the current situation.

Thirdly, have you seen the estates around there lately?  There have changed dramatically in the last 5 years with in all being townhouses/medium density living with even more being built.  In my opinion, there is no viable public transport option for these residents at the moment.

[Bulimba30A]

The Belmont area routes are all shot, in my opinion. 

Meant to say I think you may be right.  There's no need for the 213 if 215/216 are to continue so I'm guessing it's largely posturing to remove other routes.

I wouldn't have an issue with either (a) the 213 feeding Carindale routes and no 215 or 216; or (b) revert to the previous position.  Maintaining both is stupid for several reasons.  The 216 and 213 stop on opposite sides of the road and they do not take the same route, for 2 of the bigger examples. 

Why is it so hard for them to keep the network simple?  They pick the most complicated way of doing things.  They are also inconsistent - why is the 213 a shuttle and not the 205?

I really don't know what level of logic they are operating on anymore.

My solution is for:

* P216 to stay the same
* 215 to run direct down Wynnum Rd for half hour frequency OR for it to have reliable connections to a direct Wynnum Rd service at Cannon Hill
* 213 to start at Bognor St Tingalpa or Hardgrave Rd Manly West, not Cannon Hill (and would happily accept slightly reduced frequency due to dead heading)

Agree there is no point to having slightly different routes around Tingalpa/Meadowlands Rd.

[Bulimba30A]

The Belmont area routes are all shot, in my opinion.  There is no need to have so many variations between Carindale and Meadowlands Road.  Why can't everything just go up Bedivere Street and turn left or right onto Meadowlands Road as needed?  And for that matter, what is the point of the 204 going past the depot to the Clem Jones Centre?

My guess it was to deal with the loss of the 185.  Although, its a pretty terrible compromise as Clem Jones area had direct services to the City then (although I suppose none to Carindale) whereas now they have to do the loop via Carindale and Gallipoli Rd.  Its so circuitous as not to be a sensible option unless you are travelling to Carindale.

[SurfRail]

The Belmont area routes are all shot, in my opinion. 

Meant to say I think you may be right.  There's no need for the 213 if 215/216 are to continue so I'm guessing it's largely posturing to remove other routes.

I wouldn't have an issue with either (a) the 213 feeding Carindale routes and no 215 or 216; or (b) revert to the previous position.  Maintaining both is stupid for several reasons.  The 216 and 213 stop on opposite sides of the road and they do not take the same route, for 2 of the bigger examples. 

Why is it so hard for them to keep the network simple?  They pick the most complicated way of doing things.  They are also inconsistent - why is the 213 a shuttle and not the 205?

I really don't know what level of logic they are operating on anymore.

My solution is for:

* P216 to stay the same
* 215 to run direct down Wynnum Rd for half hour frequency OR for it to have reliable connections to a direct Wynnum Rd service at Cannon Hill
* 213 to start at Bognor St Tingalpa or Hardgrave Rd Manly West, not Cannon Hill (and would happily accept slightly reduced frequency due to dead heading)

Agree there is no point to having slightly different routes around Tingalpa/Meadowlands Rd.

Instead of running 213s, I think it would make more sense to run additional 225s.

216 is OK for peak, and the 215 would be an off-peak shuttle doing basically what the 213 does now.

I think the 220 or some other service would be your Wynnum Road BUZ and that 215s and other services would hub off that.

[somebody]

I agree with SurfRail.  I think asking for a full time Wynnum Rd route for Belmont is asking too much.

But back to Fursden/Kate.  If the bus goes down Meadowlands Rd, everyone still has a stop within 800m.  I think that is good enough.  The clockwise loop I/B means it can't serve serve Carindale, and I think that's a bit of a show stopper off peak.

[Fattious]

Translink has issued a new 227 timetable commencing 31st October to deliver the additional morning inbound 227 short run service that was promised but not delivered on 6th June.

This service has been dropped in what was a 19 minute gap between services departing Cash Park approaching Morningside rail overpass at 7:32AM.