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Sector 2 (Stage 2) Timetable reviews

Started by ozbob, July 14, 2011, 15:04:10 PM

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Arnz

The spare ICE are better used on extra beyond Nambour runs. (Gympie North and/or Cooroy), and are not suited for suburban services for reasons listed previously on the forum.  To further add, the ICEs are the least reliable of the units in the fleet.

The other alternative is to extend the 9:43am ICE NBR to CAB shuttle to Roma Street, break sectorisation and run it express Caboolture to Bowen Hills stopping Northgate arriving RST at 11:05am.   This would mean replacing the IMUs currently on the 11:30am RST to NBR and 1:43pm NBR to RST with ICEs, as well as the 4:00pm RST to NBR.

The current 3:23pm CAB to NBR ICE shuttle would start from Roma Street at 2:30pm, operated by the same 3-car IMU that operated the 11:43am NBR to RST service arriving RST at 2:07pm.

Whilst replacing the 4:00pm RST to NBR with a ICE would allow it to run express Bowen Hills - Northgate - Caboolture, at the same time this allows the PM SFC to NBR (Springfield to Nambour, departing 4:18pm from Roma Street) to be restored to a 6-car IMU and to stop all stations to Northgate,   

However, my rollingstock timetable changes suggestion would mean costing the suburbans a early PM peak train path as the ICE breaks sectorization per operational requirements on the outbound.  As well as it doesn't allow contingency plans for replacement by another IMU should the ICE break down (due to toilet requirements).  The IMUs are already stretched as it is, that hybrid IMU/SMU units are the norm on the GC line.
Rgds,
Arnz

Unless stated otherwise, Opinions stated in my posts are those of my own view only.

DayboroStation

Quote from: freman on January 23, 2014, 08:47:31 AM
Quote from: Arnz on January 22, 2014, 13:46:55 PM
Not sure if this would change your mind, but the next Caboolture express is at 4:24pm, a 6 minute wait tops and a 6-car unit (stopping all stations to Northgate, running express Northgate to Petrie then all stations Petrie to Caboolture). 

Quote from: DayboroStation on January 22, 2014, 15:27:01 PM
The next Caboolture express (without having to change and wait at Roma Street) leaves Toowong at 4:41, but this is often switched to a Petrie all-stations train if it is any more than 3 minutes late by the time it leaves Milton Station. Not the ideal, but at least another option to consider.

Yes, these trains exist... but it still amounts to me paying more for less, I get home later using those, 20-30 minutes doesn't seem like much but I'm already out of my house working or travelling to work for 12 hours a day, I'm not willing to sacrifice more time. I spent weeks negotiating the 30 minute lunch times that let me go home at 4pm. it's a 50 km trip it shouldn't take an hour and 10 minutes.

Ideally I'd find a way to shave 15 minutes out of my work day and catch the 3:56... but that's not going to happen.

We're pretty much confirmed, we're carpooling, it's definitely cheaper (little Suzuki), and much more convenient.

Unfortunately the 3:56 now terminates at Petrie, so that would be no good either, unless you changed and waited at Roma Street for the next Caboolture express!

Derwan

The original plan was to have 38 3-car "New Generation Rollingstock" trains by October 2013.  If this had happened, we wouldn't be having the issues with 3-car services.

http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=2559.msg21375#msg21375
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ozbob

Well, they still have 6 sx cars left.  The Ippy could have one  inbound and outbound sx DEL train for the peaks.  That would free up some electrics ...  oh wait ... they flogged off their DELs, Ok then, steam!  :P :o 8) :bna:  :lo
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ozbob

^1620 plus the SX cars could easily do it!  Bring.  it.  on.    :clp: :bna:
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Derwan

Quote from: ozbob on January 23, 2014, 11:19:39 AM
^1620 plus the SX cars could easily do it!  Bring.  it.  on.    :clp: :bna:

I remember when I first came to Brisbane for uni (1991).  I was living in Cleveland at the time.  They were still running a diesel service to Thorneside in the early afternoon peak.  I used to love catching this service.  It was a novelty - even though I simply had to wait for the next service at Thorneside anyway..... but that meant that I got to watch the turnback procedure using the Y.

School kids also loved this service as they could get away with smoking on the train!
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ozbob



Oxley DEL + SX set c. 1996 (I think)... ditto I used to wait and catch this service because it was the fastest trip to town, could open the windows on a warm day.  Marvellous.
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petey3801

Just regarding the ICE and using more of them... That would require that more of them are actually available for service, which at any one time, most aren't. There are times when the only ICE unit in working order is the one on the Gympie train, and even then, has a few faults.

ICE have suffered from horrible reliability since they were removed from the Rockhampton runs, simply because they weren't built as all stations trains. They were built for long distance, tilt train style runs and even the Gympie run is more stations, closer together, than is optimal for the ICE. IMO the Gympie run really should run express Bowen Hills to Nambour stopping at Caboolture and Landsborough, but that would require another train to fill the gap at the other stations, which QR doesn't have, so that won't happen. Either way, the ICE are not the solution to the current rollingstock shortage. There are also only a smaller number of crews who are qualified to work them.
All opinions stated are my own and do not reflect those held by my employer.

ozbob

One day, during the Ekka 1995 I think it was I  went to the model railway shop at Nundah (The Turntable was there then).

How is this for variety?

Oxley to Corinda - DEL + SX

Corinda to Yeerongpilly - 2000 Class Rail Motor

Yeerongpilly to Roma St - 39 Electric loco + SX

Roma St to Brunswick St (now Fortitude Valley) Steam +SX ( I think it was the DD17) - Ekka steam looper

Brunswick St to Nundah - EMU ...
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freman

#729
Replying to correct myself....


3:56 Caboolture all stations is now Petrie all stations.
4:11 Caboolture express (stopping Petrie-Caboolture) is now Nambor express.
Anyone going from Petrie to Caboolture is now screwed


Rang the minister for transport, his liason said we're moving away from one seat trips... sure unless you live before petrie or after caboolture.

cartoonbirdhaus

Quote from: Derwan on January 23, 2014, 11:31:58 AMI got to watch the turnback procedure using the Y.

Actually, it's spelled "wye"—although it obviously forms a Y shape!  :hg

Quote from: Derwan on January 23, 2014, 11:31:58 AMSchool kids also loved this service as they could get away with smoking on the train!

Indeed, it was legal to smoke on the diesel/loco-hauled trains until March 1990. I got to ride them to work experience (at the state govt. titles office) in April-May that year, and there certainly was novelty value, even without the option to smoke in either of the end carriages.

Quote from: ozbob on January 23, 2014, 14:11:49 PM
One day, during the Ekka 1995 ... Corinda to Yeerongpilly - 2000 Class Rail Motor

I thought they'd retired the 2000 Class by then, only to end up using one for that very purpose from Jan. '97 to Jan. 2000?
@cartoonbirdhaus.bsky.social

ozbob

Maybe have been 97, cant quite recall the year.  But the RM was definitely the go. 
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ozbob

#732
The rail motor that used to run between Yeerongpilly and Corinda.

The lass in the striped clothes is my daughter Elizabeth, she loved riding around on the rail motors ..  :P









Photographs R Dow circa 1995

Elizabeth was born in 85, she looks about 10-12 years, so probably 97 ...
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#Metro

What locomotion were these? Diesel or electric? I can't see a pantograph
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ozbob

Quote from: Lapdog Transit on January 23, 2014, 17:54:34 PM
What locomotion were these? Diesel or electric? I can't see a pantograph

Rail Motor  LD -- diesel engine this class, although some of the earlier rail motors were petrol.
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ozbob

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Stillwater

Mary Valley Heritage Railway has a rail motor in working order for those with a nostalgia kick.

ozbob

This is a picture of a ' Red Fred ' rail motor at Mackay 1954.  Has a small train to pull out to Eton, wagon and trailer.  This was 45HP petrol.

Photograph taken by my Grandfather.

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ozbob

Peak OTP yesterday
http://www.queenslandrail.com.au/RailServices/City/Pages/PeakOn-TimeResults.aspx

City Network Line   AM Peak Customer Impact   AM Peak Contractual   PM Peak Customer Impact   PM Peak Contractual   Combined Peaks Customer Impact   Combined Peaks Contractual
   

                        Date: Wednesday, 22/01/2014
          All lines   98.66 %   99.33 %   84.17 %   99.28 %   91.67 %   99.31 %
          Beenleigh   100.00 %   100.00 %   71.43 %   100.00 %   86.21 %   100.00 %
          Caboolture   100.00 %   100.00 %   100.00 %   100.00 %   100.00 %   100.00 %
          Cleveland   94.74 %   94.74 %   75.00 %   100.00 %   85.71 %   97.14 %
          Doomben   100.00 %   100.00 %   83.33 %   100.00 %   91.67 %   100.00 %
          Ferny Grove   100.00 %   100.00 %   82.35 %   100.00 %   91.67 %   100.00 %
          Ipswich   100.00 %   100.00 %   100.00 %   100.00 %   100.00 %   100.00 %
          Shorncliffe   100.00 %   100.00 %   75.00 %   100.00 %   86.96 %   100.00 %
          Springfield   100.00 %   100.00 %   92.31 %   100.00 %   96.30 %   100.00 %
          Gold Coast   91.67 %   100.00 %   57.14 %   92.86 %   73.08 %   96.15 %
          Sunshine Coast   100.00 %   100.00 %   100.00 %   100.00 %   100.00 %   100.00 %
          Rosewood   100.00 %   100.00 %   100.00 %   100.00 %   100.00 %   100.00 %
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techblitz

#740
Good post briz
Extra passengers will be in the form of school kids and uni students....mainly from/to mitchelton/enoggera/fgrove stations..
Keep us updated!

BrizCommuter

Quote from: techblitz on January 23, 2014, 19:35:15 PM
Good post briz
Extra passengers will be in the form of school kids and uni students....mainly from/to mitchelton/enoggera/fgrove stations..
Keep us updated!

Most of the extra peak direction traffic will be from FG Line destinations to (mainly private) schools and universities via the CBD (notably UQ, QUT, Griffith, All Hallows, Somerville House, etc). Most of this traffic is around the times of the 07:10am and 07:25am ex-FG. Oh dear!

The latter train may also have peak direction traffic from further up the FG Line to Mitchelton and Enoggera (although traffic to Enoggera may be much less now due to the closure of Mt Maria Enoggera Campus).

Interestingly, the 07:10am has a relatively high number of boardings at Windsor.

Golliwog

I was on the 7:10 service this morning, some left behind at Windsor, though from my observation they could have got on if they tried. Guard made an announcement after leaving Windsor, basically repeating the general gist of the QR Facebook post about them being aware of crowding on the service and that they are continuing to monitor it and encouraging passengers to try the earlier or later service. He also encouraged passengers to contact Translink to voice their concerns (read out their phone number) as they take all issues seriously and pass it all on to QR.
There is no silver bullet... but there is silver buckshot.
Never argue with an idiot. They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Derwan

I don't think people are deliberately catching the services that are 3 cars.  That's just when they happen to turn up.  I could be different groups of people each day.

One of the good things about having a train every 7 or 8 minutes is not having to think about when you're turning up.  You don't have to know the times of the new timetable during that peak period.  Advising customers to consider catching one of the other services means that they have to go back to looking at the clock and getting ready by a certain time to catch a specific train.  This is unfortunate.

Over on the Shorncliffe Line, we're still having to check the time because we can't do better than a train every 15 minutes.  Of course patronage is nowhere near that of the FG line.  Perhaps some people should move over our way?  :)
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STB

#744
Just came back from the Gold Coast and have had a pinpoint precision run, it could not have gone any better!

Go Card data:
04:08 PM    Robina    05:17 PM    Park Road    $ 4.59    
05:19 PM    Park Road    05:55 PM    Birkdale

I caught the 5:09pm ex Central (ex Park Road 5:22pm), the last express of the day, and I was expecting it to be absoutely hammered, given that it's the last express and it's the first train that the 5pm finishers can get, and was also raised as a possible problem service, instead I actually managed to get one of the few seats remaining (there were some standees) - I sat in the 4th carriage.

The service ran spot on, it dropped about 1/4 of its load at Morningside (one of the busiest stations on the Cleveland line), leaving plenty of seating that I could see in the rear 3 carriages.  It ran perfectly on time, as you can see from the Go Card data (due at Birkdale at 5:56pm - arrived 1min early), and only had a brief stop on approach to Wynnum due to the Manly train in front, which I entirely expected to happen with the new timetable, despite what the Planners pitched, however the wait was only about 30 seconds, and it was a smooth ride into Manly with precision timing with the inbound train (we had to cross onto the inbound Manly platform 1 and managed it without any problems with the inbound train crossing in between Wynnum Central and Manly, which only had used that platform only moments earlier).  Everything that I could see ran to schedule, and I'm very happy to see that there will be plenty of seating when university starts up and the remaining lot of office workers return from holidays, assuming that this is pretty much the norm for this week.

This is also hinting to me that people are starting to adjust their start/finish times and spreading themselves across the various services (Buranda to Morningside being the inner city stations for the Cleveland line and being the most busiest other than the Manly to Cleveland section).

They couldn't get it more spot on if they tried, and that's saying something!  Seriously, it was like a work of art!  Well done QR!  Lets hope that it continues that way!

:-t :clp:


Fares_Fair

40-50 is a crowd, but it's not overcrowded.
Heck, we even still get those numbers, albeit rarely now (for reasons that aren't understood) - and I do not raise it as an issue.
However it will be interesting to see what transpires once University classes get back into swing.

When the Sunshine Coast won its new 5:28pm service in July 2011, we had 65 and upwards of people standing and people were standing for an hour until Caboolture.
When the new train started it was neatly full from its very first day.

Having said that we did not have the other train options available that the Ferny grove line has and so I think Queensland Rail are justified in this case, in seeing how it pans out and how commuters make use of the other closely timed services.
Time will tell.
Regards,
Fares_Fair


BrizCommuter

Quote from: Fares_Fair on January 24, 2014, 20:24:37 PM
40-50 is a crowd, but it's not overcrowded.
Heck, we even still get those numbers, albeit rarely now (for reasons that aren't understood) - and I do not raise it as an issue.
However it will be interesting to see what transpires once University classes get back into swing.

Patronage typically increased by 40 passengers/car between now and mid-March on the old 07:04/6 from Ferny Grove and the closely following Mitchelton service.

Similar increases would probably result in the 07:10am leaving behind passengers at Wilston and Windsor.


SurfRail

I'm beginning to wonder if 75 NGR sets is going to be enough.  The EMUs are obsolescent so I can't see them being retained in the event the fare system is magically repaired or fuel goes up to $2.00+ on a permanent basis or we end up with 15 minute frequencies 7-days, so patronage spikes again.
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BrizCommuter

Quote from: SurfRail on January 24, 2014, 21:47:24 PM
I'm beginning to wonder if 75 NGR sets is going to be enough.

Nowhere near enough.

minbrisbane

Quote from: BrizCommuter on January 24, 2014, 21:53:27 PM
Quote from: SurfRail on January 24, 2014, 21:47:24 PM
I'm beginning to wonder if 75 NGR sets is going to be enough.

Nowhere near enough.

My thoughts too, we'd end with less stock than we have currently once all EMU are withdrawn.  I hope there is a plan.

HappyTrainGuy

#751
johninbrisbane. That's not correct. At no point will there be less rollingstock on the network... well only if the NGR are 6 car units :P The first stage was to build the new order of rollingstock and have them accepted but once it got to a fixed number stage two starts and as each new batch of units gets accepted the same amount of EMU units is withdrawn. Its a progressive phase out so it could more than likely coincide with a third stage to remove all the remaining EMUs once the network has been modified to accept the majority of rollingstock being replaced (either in the form of sectioning rollingstock to certain lines or station upgrades on lines with DOO). Basically once the initial order of 15 sets (for arguments sake and for 6 car units) has been accepted the EMU phase out begins so for every 3 new NGR units that now get accepted 6 EMUs get retired and taken out of service. As far as I know the EMU's will be phased out but there's no final confirmed phase out date due to the unknown of the NGR stock however that's not saying that there aren't estimated or planned phase out/stage dates.

STB

From what I've heard once the EMUs have been withdrawn, there will still be about 20 or so extra units available on the network. (87 3 car EMUs = 44 x 6 car EMUs, compared with 75 6 car NGR sets).

Golliwog

One way of addressing the 'overcrowding' (I don't think it's that bad and should sort itself out, but I think the real test will certainly be when uni/school goes back) is to look at the bus feeders. If you can call them that. They don't dump a huge number of passengers but for example I know that despite the .pdf timetable for the 399 saying the service that arrives at 7:22am connecting to the train that leaves FG at 7:32am, it usually arrives a little early (and even if it did arrive at 7:22 3 minutes is more than enough time to walk onto the platform) and the 10-20 passengers board the 7:25 3 car service. There's also a 398 that by the timetable arrives at 7:18am so passengers on that (not sure how many it typically has) also would end up on the 3 car service. The 362 will also feed into this service at Keperra, and that service also does the loop via Frasers Rd in Mitchelton and by the Translink online timetable stops at Blackwood St at 7:34am one minute before the same 3 car service is due at Mitchelton station so if the service runs faster than the timetable (I've never caught it that early so wouldn't be able to tell you how accurate it is) then again any passengers on that would end up on the same 3 car service.

There's a 397 that feeds the 7:10am 3 cars service at Mitchelton but unless a 367 or 397 run a few minutes early to FG, no other services feed that one.
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BrizCommuter

Quote from: STB on January 25, 2014, 10:28:11 AM
From what I've heard once the EMUs have been withdrawn, there will still be about 20 or so extra units available on the network. (87 3 car EMUs = 44 x 6 car EMUs, compared with 75 6 car NGR sets).

I would expect that the 20 NGR units will quite easily be used up on MBRL, enhancing current 3-car peak services to 6-cars, filling in the gaps on the existing peak timetables, and allowing for a more sustainable train availability %.

minbrisbane

Quote from: HappyTrainGuy on January 25, 2014, 08:56:34 AM
johninbrisbane. That's not correct. At no point will there be less rollingstock on the network... well only if the NGR are 6 car units :P The first stage was to build the new order of rollingstock and have them accepted but once it got to a fixed number stage two starts and as each new batch of units gets accepted the same amount of EMU units is withdrawn. Its a progressive phase out so it could more than likely coincide with a third stage to remove all the remaining EMUs once the network has been modified to accept the majority of rollingstock being replaced (either in the form of sectioning rollingstock to certain lines or station upgrades on lines with DOO). Basically once the initial order of 15 sets (for arguments sake and for 6 car units) has been accepted the EMU phase out begins so for every 3 new NGR units that now get accepted 6 EMUs get retired and taken out of service. As far as I know the EMU's will be phased out but there's no final confirmed phase out date due to the unknown of the NGR stock however that's not saying that there are estimated or planned phase out/stage dates.

Ah!  Of course - I'd completely messed up the numbers!

SurfRail

75 is only the current intention anyway - they will be retaining options for more I believe.  Clapham was notionally meant to be able to accommodate 72 trains, so there will be room for them when you include the additional room they will be creating (finishing Robina yard, possible sites at Ormeau and a few other places being investigated).

The Waratahs are being pumped out at an incredible rate now - I expect something similar will have to happen here.
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red dragin

As long as Bombardier don't have the issues they are having with the Adeliade trains. Only 5 3-car sets in about as many months, with re fits being done on the first three sets in Adeliade (floor issues I believe).

petey3801

After doing a few Beenleigh and Gold Coast runs over the past couple days, I must say, the situation at Beenleigh is an abomination, which leads to waaaaaaayy too much time in the Gold Coast timetable from Loganlea to Beenleigh. Also, the Gold Coast/Airport train cross at Coomera is very fragile as well. More details below:

Beenleigh station. When the Beenleigh all stopper arrives at Beenleigh, there is already a train in the middle road. So, the stopper waits on the platform (stopper arrives at about :11/:41). The Airport train is due to arrive at :11/:41, but can be a min or two late fairly easily. Once the Airport train departs, the Ferny Grove train in the middle road shunts on to the Down platform behind the Airport train. After it has arrived on the Down platform, the Beenleigh train gets the road in to the middle road (timetabled for :16/:46). Having the Beenleigh train wait on the platform also holds up the Gold Coast train behind it. However, the Gold Coast timetable has been padded to such an extent that it still arrives in to Beenleigh 1-2mins early (departure at :20/:50).

My first Gold Coast train this afternoon, after Edens Landing I traveled at no more than approx. 40km/h for around 1km due to persons in the corridor, some being vandals. I was also held outside Beenleigh on a red signal for approx 1min waiting for the Beenleigh train to go down the middle road (which in turn was waiting for the Ferny train to depart the middle road, which in turn was waiting for the Airport train to arrive/depart Beenleigh). I still pulled in to Beenleigh 1 1/2mins early. That's without even getting in to the extra time added further back along the line, particularly from Kuraby.

Also, with the new timetables, trains cross at Coomera. It is now normal for a GC bound train to approach a Red signal outside Coomera, waiting for the Airport/northbound train to arrive in to Coomera station.

Just a quick bit for inbound as well... both my runs today on the Airport trains: Waited time at Loganlea (approx 1min). Waited time at Park Road (approx 1-2min). Waited time at South Bank (approx 2min). Waited time at South Brisbane (approx. 1min). Waited time at Roma Street (2-3min). Waited time at Central (2-3min). Urgh. That's the big problem with "consistent journey times and departure times". Off-peak, loading/unloading doesn't take as long as peak, there are less trains etc. Departure times in peak aren't consistent to the same extent as off-peak anyway! Buut no, in off-peak, we have to sit around and take several minutes longer to complete the journey all because that's how long it takes to do it in peak. And that annoys the crap outta me!
All opinions stated are my own and do not reflect those held by my employer.

Old Northern Road

The Shorncliffe line seems really bad as well. I'm fairly sure that the last time I travelled on the Shorncliffe line (probably around 10 years ago) it took less than 30mins to get to Sandgate. Now it takes 35mins. Why does Northgate - Bindha take 3mins?

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