Sector 2 (Stage 2) Timetable reviews

[BrizCommuter]

I'm not sure what you mean by reverse,

Changing direction of travel! Reversing or turnback are the most commonly used railway terms for this, certainly in "metro system" speak.

Thanks for the info on the variable reversing location on the Cleveland Line.

[longboi]

I'm not sure what you mean by reverse,

Changing direction of travel! Reversing or turnback are the most commonly used railway terms for this, certainly in "metro system" speak.

Thanks for the info on the variable reversing location on the Cleveland Line.

I'll look at the track diagrams but essentially there are designated turnback stations and locations.
They require certain signalling, depend on the location of crossovers and have to take in other operational issues (i.e. blocking train paths).

[techblitz]

North-West News 05.02.14

[STB]

I'm not sure what you mean by reverse,

Changing direction of travel! Reversing or turnback are the most commonly used railway terms for this, certainly in "metro system" speak.

Thanks for the info on the variable reversing location on the Cleveland Line.

I'll look at the track diagrams but essentially there are designated turnback stations and locations.
They require certain signalling, depend on the location of crossovers and have to take in other operational issues (i.e. blocking train paths).

That's correct.  Certain stations are allocated for turnbacks.

[ozbob]

Managed to squeeze in a rail trip Buranda - Park Road today.  Observed a few Cannon Hill trains, all carrying good pax loads for off peak.

Caught a 29 bus from Park Road to the 'Gabba, I was the only pax.  Still quiet until uni starts I guess.

[bagbuffy]

I've noticed that the BCC have upgraded the 29, Scanias and Volvo B12's are now servicing the route. I would imagine if the 29 can gain at least 5 Pax per service the council might start running Artics along the route.

[aldonius]

The 29 could do with a couple of Artics in the AM peak UQ-bound between :40 and :50...

Don't think that Lakes stop E is really long enough for them though!

[James]

The 29 could do with a couple of Artics in the AM peak UQ-bound between :40 and :50...

Don't think that Lakes stop E is really long enough for them though!

I think all the routes going to/from UQ could do with some artics come the 3rd of March! It is shocking that BCC can't get itself together and start putting some HCVs on the 412/402 Uni peak runnings.

I don't see why the 29 operates out of semester though, the current peak routes to UQ are far from overcrowded really. You could even argue there is no reason to operate it out of peak.

[aldonius]

UQ outbound peak ramps up earlier than school peak, so they'd only really stop running 9:30 to 1:30 anyway. Also, the capacity is somewhat needed in the 20 minutes before class start (uni-bound) and after class finish (outbound). It might be possible to cover it in the middle of the day if all the 66's were artics, but probably not.

[BrizCommuter]

Caught a 29 bus from Park Road to the 'Gabba, I was the only pax.  Still quiet until uni starts I guess.

BrizCommuter caught the 29 around lunch time last year whilst on the way to lecturing at UQ, and it was still empty. Still it's useful for the high frequency 1 stop hop from Park Rd to PAH.

[James]

UQ outbound peak ramps up earlier than school peak, so they'd only really stop running 9:30 to 1:30 anyway. Also, the capacity is somewhat needed in the 20 minutes before class start (uni-bound) and after class finish (outbound). It might be possible to cover it in the middle of the day if all the 66's were artics, but probably not.

I would argue you could push that out to 9:10 to 2:50. Uni demand drops off a cliff immediately after class starts. I'm not that much of an expert on the UQ Lakes corridor, but I know the buses going to Indro are often far from full around the 2pm time. Admittedly in semester there is about 5 minute frequency, but there is that same frequency (if not more) along the UQ Lakes corridor (from the 66/139/169/209) at that time anyway, and a number of the buses are high-capacity anyway.

If there is a Park Road capacity issue, short run either a 66 or 169 from PAH/Buranda, or run one 29 trip (tack it on to the end of a 340) timed to leave just prior to a 66.

[techblitz]

Mr shuttleworth responds

Nwest news 12.02.14

[BrizCommuter]

Mr shuttleworth responds

Nwest news 12.02.14

Mr Shuttleworth, a near 50% increase in carriages is somewhat irrelevant if passengers cannot/choose not to board some of those carriages. Trains that are so full that passengers are avoiding the service/being discouraged from using that service is not acceptable on a new timetable, and discourages public transport use. So much for trying to reduce traffic congestion on Samford Rd. What could have been an amazing timetable for the Ferny Grove Line continues to be a big disappointment for some users.

Waiting 45secs for the next train in London may be acceptable, but waiting 7-8 minutes in Brisbane for the next train is unacceptable.

Loads seem to be stable this week, with some standing space left, but 10 passengers (5 at Newmarket and 5 at Windsor) were observed to not board the 07:10am from FG morning.

Anyway, BrizCommuter will wait until the universities are back before his next whinging blog post.

[somebody]

Meh.

I said it would be thus.

Sent from my GT-S6102 using Tapatalk 2

[Derwan]

Anyway, BrizCommuter will wait until the universities are back before his next whinging blog post.

No amount of whinging is going to increase the number of trains available. I'm not sure what you hope to achieve, other than highlighting the inaction of the current and previous governments in securing rolling stock. Either way you're stuck with what you've got.

[BrizCommuter]

Anyway, BrizCommuter will wait until the universities are back before his next whinging blog post.

No amount of whinging is going to increase the number of trains available. I'm not sure what you hope to achieve, other than highlighting the inaction of the current and previous governments in securing rolling stock. Either way you're stuck with what you've got.

There is still the possibility of rolling stock re-allocation between services.

[Arnz]

Anyway, BrizCommuter will wait until the universities are back before his next whinging blog post.

No amount of whinging is going to increase the number of trains available. I'm not sure what you hope to achieve, other than highlighting the inaction of the current and previous governments in securing rolling stock. Either way you're stuck with what you've got.

There is still the possibility of rolling stock re-allocation between services.

Without robbing other lines of units?  Less busier services may be paired with busier lines, so it's a knock-on affect.

[BrizCommuter]

Anyway, BrizCommuter will wait until the universities are back before his next whinging blog post.

No amount of whinging is going to increase the number of trains available. I'm not sure what you hope to achieve, other than highlighting the inaction of the current and previous governments in securing rolling stock. Either way you're stuck with what you've got.

There is still the possibility of rolling stock re-allocation between services.

Without robbing other lines of units?  Less busier services may be paired with busier lines, so it's a knock-on affect.

That's the problem, which BrizCommuter has already commented on in his blog
http://brizcommuter.blogspot.com.au/2014/01/the-lack-of-trains-problem.html
For example - it is very frustrating seeing empty Airport trains in the pm peak, but they then form politically sensitive Gold Coast Line trains.

[petey3801]

At this stage, i'll be working the infamous 7:10am 3-car train from Ferny Grove on Monday. Will be an interesting sight!

[BrizCommuter]

At this stage, i'll be working the infamous 7:10am 3-car train from Ferny Grove on Monday. Will be an interesting sight!

Hopefully the Monday won't be too bad compared to Tue-Thu.

[BrizCommuter]

Car 3 of the 7:10am from Ferny Grove had an estimated 80 standing pax at Windsor this morning. A few passengers didn't board.

Car 3 of the 5:26pm from Central to Ferny Grove also had an estimated 80 standing pax at Central. Door hopping (more like running) observed at Central. Couldn't see if pax were left behind at Fortitude Valley or Bowen Hills due to the number of passengers standing blocking the view.

Seems things are getting worse, not better. 

[techblitz]

North-west News 19.02.14

[BrizCommuter]

North-west News 19.02.14

Another person with "I want an express to my stationitis".

[petey3801]

Noticing that displays at Park Road are listing Northgate trains as Virginia trains... Are they actually continuing to Virginia or is it just a glitch?

Sent from my C6603 using Tapatalk

They're running empty from Northgate to Virginia (and sometimes Zillmere) to turnback. Unfortunately most of the station PIDs are showing Virginia instead of Northgate. The 4 City stations are showing Northgate though.

[James]

North-west News 19.02.14

Confusing was probably not the best use of the world. The more apt term is 'reduces the overall line capacity'. But goodness, its only an extra 6 minutes, and no time saving to anybody not catching the express (and a huge gap in the timetable to those at intermediate stations).

James does not understand why pax can not simply catch a slightly earlier or slightly later train. They are coming every 7 minutes - get to work 7 minutes earlier and leave 7 minutes earlier. I also don't see what is so difficult about getting the 5:11pm train either. Unless you're in the Riverside precinct, it's not too difficult to make that 5:11pm train. Yes, ideally we'd have a 6-car 5:18pm train, but I digress.

If we really want more services - would it be possible to make the two Bowen Hills-starting GC trains 3-car units and send those saved 6-cars to make up a 5:18pm Ferny Grove service? That might be a bit foamy/unrealistic though.

[BrizCommuter]

North-west News 19.02.14

Confusing was probably not the best use of the world. The more apt term is 'reduces the overall line capacity'. But goodness, its only an extra 6 minutes, and no time saving to anybody not catching the express (and a huge gap in the timetable to those at intermediate stations).

James does not understand why pax can not simply catch a slightly earlier or slightly later train. They are coming every 7 minutes - get to work 7 minutes earlier and leave 7 minutes earlier. I also don't see what is so difficult about getting the 5:11pm train either. Unless you're in the Riverside precinct, it's not too difficult to make that 5:11pm train. Yes, ideally we'd have a 6-car 5:18pm train, but I digress.

If we really want more services - would it be possible to make the two Bowen Hills-starting GC trains 3-car units and send those saved 6-cars to make up a 5:18pm Ferny Grove service? That might be a bit foamy/unrealistic though.

It would be too politically sensitive to take the away Gold Coast Line's commuters handbag seats a month into a new timetable.

Anyway, another BrizCommuter post:
http://brizcommuter.blogspot.com.au/2014/02/train-etiquette-super-simple-stuff.html

[James]

It would be too politically sensitive to take the away Gold Coast Line's commuters handbag seats a month into a new timetable.

Anyway, another BrizCommuter post:
http://brizcommuter.blogspot.com.au/2014/02/train-etiquette-super-simple-stuff.html

I think the larger question is whether all those seats are actually being used. If the service can operate with 3 cars and no standees past Beenleigh, I don't see why its an issue. The services in the middle of the 15 minute cycle are naturally just the most lightly loaded services anyway. I think the service departing Central at 4:37pm would probably be the best one to target.

Remember, while Gold Coast is politically sensitive, the Ferny Grove line runs through a certain Premier's electorate. The other issue with coasties is they are resource intensive. One return run of a Gold Coast train (assuming they could return empty to form another service) takes up to 3 hours to complete - that is around 5-6 return trips on the Ferny Grove line. Just taking away one 3-car unit from the GC line could help out the network significantly for minimal capacity cost.

Alternatively the government could recommend Whinger of Gold Coast seeks to either work on the Gold Coast or live closer to their place of work.

[BrizCommuter]

It would be too politically sensitive to take the away Gold Coast Line's commuters handbag seats a month into a new timetable.

Anyway, another BrizCommuter post:
http://brizcommuter.blogspot.com.au/2014/02/train-etiquette-super-simple-stuff.html

I think the larger question is whether all those seats are actually being used. If the service can operate with 3 cars and no standees past Beenleigh, I don't see why its an issue. The services in the middle of the 15 minute cycle are naturally just the most lightly loaded services anyway. I think the service departing Central at 4:37pm would probably be the best one to target.

Remember, while Gold Coast is politically sensitive, the Ferny Grove line runs through a certain Premier's electorate. The other issue with coasties is they are resource intensive. One return run of a Gold Coast train (assuming they could return empty to form another service) takes up to 3 hours to complete - that is around 5-6 return trips on the Ferny Grove line. Just taking away one 3-car unit from the GC line could help out the network significantly for minimal capacity cost.

Alternatively the government could recommend Whinger of Gold Coast seeks to either work on the Gold Coast or live closer to their place of work.

From BrizCommuter's observations converting some of the evening peak Gold Coast Line services to 3-car would result in at least a few standees (i.e. more than 50% of seats are taken in 6-car unit). This for re-distribution of trains, it is a case of standees on Gold Coast Line vs full trains on Ferny Grove Line.

[BrizCommuter]

07:10am from Ferny Grove left behind 12 passengers at Windsor this morning.

[#Metro]

Is there room for more capacity in a 2-hour peak on the inner QR lines (i.e. Ipswich, FG, Cleveland etc)? I notice that during the busiest hour in the am peak there is about 8000 pphd worth of capacity which seems rather low (busway is about 12 000 - 18 000 pphd of supplied capacity).

[ozbob]

How to you get 8000?  That is only 8 trains, a lot more than that ...

[ozbob]

Ipswich line alone peak AM through Central has 15,000 7-8am ...

[ozbob]

Yes a few slots still available am peak ..  these will eventually be filled when train fleet expanded ..  confirmed at QR CRG as well.

Some example gaps in present timetable  between 7-8am.

At Central  7.05 -7.17,  7.20-7.29, 7.35-7.41 am.
                       ^3              ^2           ^1

Further 6000 possible, which gives 21,000 for Ipswich line at Central for the hour ..

[techblitz]

3 car 5.47 ex central to cleveland all stopper....fully sardine packed (including aisles) by southbank...passengers struggle to board till coorparoo.

[BrizCommuter]

3 car 5.47 ex central to cleveland all stopper....fully sardine packed (including aisles) by southbank...passengers struggle to board till coorparoo.

Is that a regular occurrence? I have seen a few comments on QR's Facebook page about Cleveland Line crowding around this time.

If there any other consistently overcrowded services post sector 2 timetables, please post them here!

[petey3801]

3 car 5.47 ex central to cleveland all stopper....fully sardine packed (including aisles) by southbank...passengers struggle to board till coorparoo.

Is that a regular occurrence? I have seen a few comments on QR's Facebook page about Cleveland Line crowding around this time.

If there any other consistently overcrowded services post sector 2 timetables, please post them here!

Yes, regular occurrence any time I have seen it since the new timetable.

[#Metro]

Ferny Grove Line Timetable
http://translink.com.au/sites/default/files/assets/timetables/140120-ferny-grove.pdf

Trains between 7 am and 8 am (busiest hour):
7:02am, 7:10am, 7:17am, 7:25am, 7:32am, 7:40am, 7:47am, 7:55am

= 8 trains x 1000 pax = 8000 pphd.

Can I have official / rigorous confirmation of the ability for extra capacity on the Ferny Grove Line in peak please? Will be important for determining if mass buses feeding Enoggera is possible.

[BrizCommuter]

Ferny Grove Line Timetable
http://translink.com.au/sites/default/files/assets/timetables/140120-ferny-grove.pdf

Trains between 7 am and 8 am (busiest hour):
7:02am, 7:10am, 7:17am, 7:25am, 7:32am, 7:40am, 7:47am, 7:55am

= 8 trains x 1000 pax = 8000 pphd.

Can I have official / rigorous confirmation of the ability for extra capacity on the Ferny Grove Line in peak please? Will be important for determining if mass buses feeding Enoggera is possible.

There is available space on all trains apart from the 07:10am and 7:25am inbound, so don't feed your fantasy bus into those services.

[#Metro]

^ Both these services are 3 car units, so making these 6-car trains would solve that problem.

[BrizCommuter]

^ Both these services are 3 car units, so making these 6-car trains would solve that problem.

That's the problem though!

Observations this morning were on the 06:55am ex-Ferny Grove. This 3-car unit has got much busier since the students have returned, but has a comfortable standing load, and has room to spare.