Sector 2 (Stage 2) Timetable reviews

[Fares_Fair]

The current Translink Services Contract (TSC) expires on 30 June 2013.
It's a 5 year plan.
I would hope that with less than 12 months to go until the 2013-18 TSC, priorities are being discussed and made now.

[kazzac]

Hopefully, the sector two timetable review will remove the 22 minute gap between services for Banoon, Salisbury, Rocklea & Moorooka in the middle of the AM peak & the 23 minute gap to these stations as well as Dutton Park, Fairfield & Yeronga in the middle of the PM peak.

These stations should have no worse than a 12 minute frequency in peak times.

Yes I know about that ,ATM there"s a 35 minute gap between i/b services on Beenleigh/Ferny Grove line 3pm-4pm,one day last week I was able to catch an i/b Ferny Grove service at Salisbury only because it was 2 minutes late, [departs 3.35 pm]most days I have no hope of catching this service.Next one [from Salisbury] 4.08pm!

[BrizCommuter]

Be a while between drinks for this stage 2 review.

Might be interesting to see if anything major comes of the Translink/QR meeting mentioned at the CRG. Doubt anything big being mentioned publicly, but might be able to query it at the next CRG.

BrizCommuter is now placing bets on Monday 24th June 2013.
You heard it here first!

[SurfRail]

There seems to be a lot more probity and openness with these contracts interstate (eg the basic standards to be met by contractors and for bus operators in particular the vehicle standards).

[ozbob]

Where are you sector 2?

[ozbob]

Transport and Multicultural Affairs
The Honourable Annastacia Palaszczuk
14/07/2011

Further rail timetable reviews looming

Following the successful implementation of new timetables for the Ipswich and Caboolture rail lines further timetable reviews for other lines will start later this year, Transport Minister Annastacia Palaszczuk announced today.

Queensland Rail and TransLink will again rely on public input to deliver better train services for the Cleveland, Beenleigh, Gold Coast, Doomben, Ferny Grove and Shorncliffe lines.

Ms Palaszczuk said work on Stage 2 of the train timetable was underway with customers to have input from November this year.

"Stage 1 delivered more seats and greater reliability on the Caboolture, North Coast and Ipswich/Rosewood lines and I want to see that level of service afforded to all South East Queensland train passengers," Ms Palaszczuk said.

"We have shown we are serious about working with customers through feedback, consultation and information sessions.

"We received more than 2000 pieces of valuable feedback from members of the public during the first stage and we will be looking for that same level of feedback for Stage 2.

"This review will allow Queensland Rail to maximise our investment in the 64 new three-car trains, which are rolling off the production line at a rate of one per month.

"Currently, there's an average of 180,000 passenger journeys on the Queensland Rail network every day, so we need to make sure that those passengers get to where they need to go in the best and most efficient way possible."

Stage 1 of the new timetable recast started on June 6 - the largest improvement of rail services in more than 15 years - delivering more than 150,000 weekly train seats to the Caboolture, Ipswich, Rosewood, Richlands and North Coast lines.

"For the most part the biggest timetable change in 15 years has gone extremely well," she said.

"It's quite an achievement given more than 870 rail services and approximately 15,000 bus services operate across South East Queensland on a daily basis."

"When the Queensland Government launched the new Queensland Rail on July 1 last year, we promised a renewed focus on meeting timetables, reliability and customer service," Ms Palaszczuk said.

"We will continue to deliver improvement for passengers and remain focused on building a world class public transport system for South East Queensland."

==============================================================

[#Metro]

What?! Due almost a year ago!

Talk about late running!

[Stillwater]

We had a 'world clarse' public transport system under Labor, now a 'passenger-focussed' one under the LNP.  Sense the difference?

[somebody]

What?! Due almost a year ago!

Talk about late running!

It doesn't say that at all.  It gives no guidance about how long the review will take that I can see.

With the incompetence delivering the phase 1 timetable, blowing out by over a year IIRC, I am not surprised.

[Derwan]

They won't happen until April next year - once the Sandgate Station upgrade is complete.

[somebody]

They won't happen until April next year - once the Sandgate Station upgrade is complete.

I suspect even that is optimistic.

[ozbob]

Welcome!  Thanks for sharing your timetable suggestions.  Looks promising ..

Others will comment in time.

Cheers!

[somebody]

Trains can't arrive on Central platforms 1 and 2 at the same time.

Gold Coast trains are slower.

I applaud 15 minute Shorncliffe trains.

[techblitz]

25 to 30 flights (domestic & international) arrive before 7.30am on sunday mornings.Yet up until 9am passengers heading from northgate to caboolture have to deal with PATHETIC hourly frequency.

here are the what i consider inadequate caboolture bound options for passengers connecting @ eagle junction on your typcial sunday morning

Heres what current sunday workers and arriving travellers have to put up with from eagle junction

7.19am to caboolture
8.16am to nambour
8.19am to caboolture
9.19am to caboolture

[BrizCommuter]

Most cities do not have a overnight train service. Frequent service during peaks, daytime, and early-mid evenings needs to be a far higher priority.

[HappyTrainGuy]

Most cities do not have a overnight train service. Frequent service during peaks, daytime, and early-mid evenings needs to be a far higher priority.

Not to mention several night services have already been removed from timetables over the years due to lack of patronage.

[somebody]

Now the Gold Coast trains need to overtake the Kuraby trains.

I think Kuraby 4tph is a stretch too far on current infrastructure.

[SurfRail]

I gather than 4 tph Kuraby (with every second train continuing to Beenleigh) and 2tph Gold Coast express is entirely possible in the off-peak in both directions with some timetable adjustments.  Anything more than that (eg outer Beenleigh expresses, or running more services south of Kuraby at all) and you hit problems.

[somebody]

Still requires slowing down the Gold Coast trains in one direction.

[ClintonL94]

Still requires slowing down the Gold Coast trains in one direction.

Have a look at the proposed timetable I created a while ago which clearing shows the gold coast trains do not get slowed down:

http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=6837.msg70795#msg70795

[SurfRail]

@hongsetoufaren - could you please explain your proposed arrangements at Kuraby?  I'm not 100% sure they would work (at least withou some modification to existing set-up).

[somebody]

Still requires slowing down the Gold Coast trains in one direction.

Have a look at the proposed timetable I created a while ago which clearing shows the gold coast trains do not get slowed down:

http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=6837.msg70795#msg70795

To remind everyone, you were saying:

Pattern:

    Ferny Grove Express: All stops Beenleigh - Kuraby. Express to Kuraby - Yeerongpilly than all stops to CBD and Ferny Grove
    Brisbane Airport: All stops Varsity Lakes - Beenleigh. Express to Park Road stopping only at Loganlea and Coopers Plains. All stops Park Road - Bowen Hills then EXP to Eagle Junction, continuing to Airport.
    Ferny Grove All Stops: All stops Kuraby - Ferny Grove.

Completely plausible.

There is no improvement for Moorooka-Fruitgrove, but there is improvement (faster) for Kuraby-Holmview and more frequent for Dutton Park-Yeerongpilly.

[Set in train]

Far too many stops for express services south of Central. Trains stop Roma St, Sth Bris, Sth Bank and Park Rd.

Going north, express trains only stop at the Valley and Bowen Hills.

If it's good enough for northern lines to only stop at two stations after Central, then thought needs to be put into which two out of the four southern stations the Gold Coast expresses should stop at. Far too much choice, far too much time wasted. Disembarking can be consolidated to two out of four stations easily.

[Derwan]

Going north, express trains only stop at the Valley and Bowen Hills.

Not any more. All trains on the Caboolture Line stop all stations to Northgate. The only exception is the Gympielander as ICE can't stop at some stations.

You can expect the same on the Shorncliffe Line in the sector 2 review. Not sure about the Airtrain though.

[Gazza]

Far too many stops for express services south of Central. Trains stop Roma St, Sth Bris, Sth Bank and Park Rd.

Going north, express trains only stop at the Valley and Bowen Hills.

If it's good enough for northern lines to only stop at two stations after Central, then thought needs to be put into which two out of the four southern stations the Gold Coast expresses should stop at. Far too much choice, far too much time wasted. Disembarking can be consolidated to two out of four stations easily.

Have you considered trains stop in that pattern because urban development is skewed in that direction? Doesn't sound like you've considered that at all.
What's north of Bowen Hills? (2 stops) Nothing....A few Car Dealers in Newstead, and a lot of Queenslanders.
What's south of South Brisbane? (2 stops)....UQ, Tafe, Southbank, 2 Big Hospitals (PA and Mater, with new Childrens Hospital soon to open)


-It's Central by name only, not by location in the city. And its not about that tired Northside versus Southside debate.
Also, people travel to inner Brisbane for many reasons, we can't just be biased towards office workers using Central.

-The important stations are Roma St (Untouchable), South Brisbane (Very busy, has a mini CBD), Southbank (Very Large TAFE, Southbank precinct) and Park Road (Connection to Cleveland line, connection to busway and UQ...UQ is the largest trip generator outside CBD)

-Roma St and South Brisbane are the obvious ones to keep. Under your logic we then eliminate South Bank and Park Rd....Sorry people heading to UQ, looks like you have some extra time on your journey now! Also increases cultural center congestion as people switch to buses to backtrack (To southbank too, if a train isn't coming) Cleveland line passengers get crapped on too.

-Is your idea even practical? On the inner sections of the network, can we even have express trains without having trains riding reds?
The section where you propose to remove stops is where all lines have converged.

I don't really like your idea at all, sorry 

[BrizCommuter]

Far too many stops for express services south of Central. Trains stop Roma St, Sth Bris, Sth Bank and Park Rd.

Going north, express trains only stop at the Valley and Bowen Hills.

If it's good enough for northern lines to only stop at two stations after Central, then thought needs to be put into which two out of the four southern stations the Gold Coast expresses should stop at. Far too much choice, far too much time wasted. Disembarking can be consolidated to two out of four stations easily.

South Brisbane, South Bank, and Roma Street are all inner city stations, so all trains must stop. Park Road has connections to PA hospital and UQ, and Cleveland Line, so it makes sense to stop there as well. If anything, peak Gold Coast trains may have to stop at more stations when Merivale Bridge capacity reaches it's limit.

[Set in train]

South Brisbane, South Bank, and Roma Street are all inner city stations, so all trains must stop. Park Road has connections to PA hospital and UQ, and Cleveland Line, so it makes sense to stop there as well. If anything, peak Gold Coast trains may have to stop at more stations when Merivale Bridge capacity reaches it's limit.

All fair comments, playing devil's advocate there.

Don't think Gold Coast commuters would be happy at stopping at more stations when Merivale Bridge reaches capacity.

[Gazza]

SC commuters have had to cop extra stations, jussayin!

[BrizCommuter]

South Brisbane, South Bank, and Roma Street are all inner city stations, so all trains must stop. Park Road has connections to PA hospital and UQ, and Cleveland Line, so it makes sense to stop there as well. If anything, peak Gold Coast trains may have to stop at more stations when Merivale Bridge capacity reaches it's limit.

All fair comments, playing devil's advocate there.

Don't think Gold Coast commuters would be happy at stopping at more stations when Merivale Bridge reaches capacity.

I don't think Cleveland Line commuters will be happy about not being able to board trains, whilst Gold Coast trains are little more than half-full when the Merivale Bridge reaches capacity.

[HappyTrainGuy]

Interesting fact. Gold Coast trains used to run express Eagle Junction to Bowen Hills stopping all stations to South Brisbane running express to Beenleigh before stopping all stations to the Gold Coast.

[Set in train]

Cleveland is a more than a few dollars away to sort out to enable 4t/hr and Manly or Lota will be the terminus for years to come.

Good point. The 250 bus should be funded for quarter hourly services and forget about upgrading the train from Manly to Cleveland. Bus beats train for commute times generally anyway due to the circuitous nature of the Cleveland line and the Eastern Busway/transit/bus lane improvements on the corridor out to Capalaba will only improve this.

[somebody]

The 250 bus should be funded for quarter hourly services

I'd sooner extend the 270 into the CBD.

[Set in train]

The 250 bus should be funded for quarter hourly services

I'd sooner extend the 270 into the CBD.

We should chat about this in a more specific thread but the 270 terminating at Carindale is a painless move: 10 express buses an hour to transfer to makes it very easy.

It's a cross town route (Capalaba to Victoria Point) that should be encouraged by a move to half hourly services until 7pm.

[Derwan]

Apparently things are ramping up for the timetable review.  (I'll believe that when I see it.)

[BrizCommuter]

Apparently things are ramping up for the timetable review.  (I'll believe that when I see it.)

BrizCommuter has almost come to terms that we will never see it. Only 2 years late now!

[somebody]

Apparently things are ramping up for the timetable review.  (I'll believe that when I see it.)

BrizCommuter has almost come to terms that we will never see it. Only 2 years late now!

It's also not at all clear what they might be able to achieve with the review.  There is clearly a bit of stress with getting enough units to operate peak services.  NGR units will probably be here in 5 years or so.  Perhaps then the sector 2 review will be able to be implemented.

[BrizCommuter]

Apparently things are ramping up for the timetable review.  (I'll believe that when I see it.)

BrizCommuter has almost come to terms that we will never see it. Only 2 years late now!

It's also not at all clear what they might be able to achieve with the review.  There is clearly a bit of stress with getting enough units to operate peak services.  NGR units will probably be here in 5 years or so.  Perhaps then the sector 2 review will be able to be implemented.

There will probably be quite a few 3-car services for a long while!

[ozbob]

 

[ozbob]

 

Don't expect anything for sector 2 for 2013.   More failure ....

[somebody]

Don't expect anything for sector 2 for 2013.   More failure ....

I thought we'd already established that.  We need the Sandgate platform works to finish before implementation, and they won't be finished until late this year.