POLL: Most burning issues for SEQ PT - try 2

[HappyTrainGuy]

In London, in the late 1800s, they figured heavy rail was good for inner city movement too! Guess what they built?

And look what happened in the UK in the mid 1900s. Its a balancing act.

[somebody]

Sorry Simon but I, and I would think many others would also agree, fail to comprehend why you are so chuffed with 23 persons voting in your straw poll over 24 hours.  
Over that period of time well over 5000 people would have visited the site and with in excess of 500 members in RBoT only 23 have considered this straw poll sufficently significant to vote.  No doubt the relevance of the alternatives presented in the poll is reflected in this response.

Could it be because it proves a point which I (and others) have been trying to make for a long time?

[Stillwater]

I vote for everyone to take a Bex and have a good lie-down.

[Fares_Fair]

Congratulations on the 25 pollsters Simon,  

I may disagree with what you say at times, but well done on the numbers.

I managed only 21 with my 'controversial' how many Sunshine Coast members there are in RBoT.

Kind regards,
Fares_Fair.

PS How do I remove 5 votes ?   

[ozbob]

This poll has 25 voters as well --> http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=6262.msg61937#top

The most burning issues poll simply reflects what we have been pushing for some time, improvements in off peak frequency, infrastructure issues and fares.  What members think here though is clearly not always reflective of what the wider public view is, just an observation, and confirmed elsewhere.

RAIL Back On Track was set up by me to advocate for all.  This is clearly stated here. We are a commuter based group not an expert group. If you are not happy with that I suggest you form an 'expert' group and challenge the public consensus. I have raised toilet issues before and will probably do so in the future. For some this is a major issue, as much as frequency issues are for some here. Fares is also an important issue with members here as well as the public particularly.  The Government sees it that way as well as that is the constant feedback they receive, hence the Minister indicating that  the PTAG will consider options for fare improvements.

The wild card in policy is public opinion particularly on the political processes. There will always be a changing effect of those processes, and we see it in its simplest form as the 'pork barrel' to major policy failings such as infrastructure deficits.

The message from this poll is that of the choices listed off peak frequency is the most important issue for some and is poor generally on our network, a point we have made for years and will continue to do so.

A compromise position might be possible but some folks cannot see that.  So nothing happens ...

[ozbob]

Time you all took a reality check.  We are not going to get 15 minutes to everywhere for many many years unless there are some dramatic changes.  This was made very clear the other night at the combined CRG.

It is frustrating, surely Richlands could be extended to Petrie to provide a similar overlap as to Darra?  You would think so, but then the usual counter arguments are rolled out, this train path that train path and so forth.  What line carries the most tonnage?   Yes you got it, the Ippy ...

Personally I would rather see 3 trains per hour in two years say, rather than no changes for 10 years or longer.  4 trains per hour will still be achieved, but the community has the benefit of the increased frequency till that occurs.

Ed:   http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=3083.msg61945#msg61945  more bad news.

[Gazza]

Re the 5 things QR mentioned as being important, bear in mind those 5 concerns are what existing users think. I'm guessing this poll is more the top 5 things TL and DoTMR/DoI should care about.

As you said, the top 5 excludes everything TL is responsible for, such as fares, so that will naturally exclude many other important things though.

[Fares_Fair]

This poll has 25 voters as well --> http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=6262.msg61937#top

The most burning issues poll simply reflects what we have been pushing for some time, improvements in off peak frequency, infrastructure issues and fares.  What members think here though is clearly not always reflective of what the wider public view is, just an observation, and confirmed elsewhere.

RAIL Back On Track was set up by me to advocate for all.  This is clearly stated here. We are a commuter based group not an expert group. If you are not happy with that I suggest you form an 'expert' group and challenge the public consensus. I have raised toilet issues before and will probably do so in the future. For some this is a major issue, as much as frequency issues are for some here. Fares is also an important issue with members here as well as the public particularly.  The Government sees it that way as well as that is the constant feedback they receive, hence the Minister indicating that  the PTAG will consider options for fare improvements.

The wild card in policy is public opinion particularly on the political processes. There will always be a changing effect of those processes, and we see it in its simplest form as the 'pork barrel' to major policy failings such as infrastructure deficits.

The message from this poll is that of the choices listed off peak frequency is the most important issue for some and is poor generally on our network, a point we have made for years and will continue to do so.

A compromise position might be possible but some folks cannot see that.  So nothing happens ...

Congratulations on the 25 pollsters ozbob,   

Well done on the numbers.
I guess that makes me 3rd place ?

Regards,
Fares_fair.

[ozbob]

Re the 5 things QR mentioned as being important, bear in mind those 5 concerns are what existing users think. I'm guessing this poll is more the top 5 things TL and DoTMR/DoI should care about.

Yes, understand but its not implicit.  But when you have departments building stations such as Beerburrum and Elimbah without toilets, then retrospectively adding them indicates that something is amiss.  They need to start listening and not assuming, and then modifying the outcomes as practical in line with feedback.  

[ozbob]

Congratulations on the 25 pollsters ozbob

Thanks but congratulations is not needed, it is just another reflection of an issue that is important.  I take the view that one issue is not necessarily more important than other, they are all component pieces of improvements.  Some things are more achievable than others though.

The infrastructure and resource improvements remain the cornerstone of progress.

[somebody]

RAIL Back On Track was set up by me to advocate for all.  This is clearly stated here. We are a commuter based group not an expert group. If you are not happy with that I suggest you form an 'expert' group

I for one have no plans to do that!  I don't think I could have your persistence to put in this degree of effort over this many years, with still a long haul to achieve even 15 minute frequencies on the major lines.

Although I'm not sure what you are trying to say here.

We are not going to get 15 minutes to everywhere for many many years unless there are some dramatic changes.  This was made very clear the other night at the combined CRG.

It's a shame I wasn't there.  That is incredibly disappointing.

It is frustrating, surely Richlands could be extended to Petrie to provide a similar overlap as to Darra?  You would think so, but then the usual counter arguments are rolled out, this train path that train path and so forth.  What line carries the most tonnage?   Yes you got it, the Ippy ...

If 15 minute frequency is unachievable to Petrie, then what will they do when Kippa-Ring comes on stream?

[ozbob]

I for one have no plans to do that!  I don't think I could have your persistence to put in this degree of effort over this many years, with still a long haul to achieve even 15 minute frequencies on the major lines.

Just reminding that all issues are worth highlighting from time to time, even if we do tend concentrate on frequency and so forth ..

[ozbob]

If 15 minute frequency is unachievable to Petrie, then what will they do when Kippa-Ring comes on stream?

Yes, worrying.  I would have thought ramping up to Petrie with Richlands  <-> Petrie would be a good lead in for extension to Kippa Ring.

And even more worrying is that it is still not clear that the junction at Petrie will be a fly over as opposed to flat ...  oh my ...  I hope commonsense prevails here although some times when I look at the work between Corinda and Darra my eyes glaze over ... 

[somebody]

I'd have to say, that with policies which are becoming more and more clear, that I do not think that Brisbane will be a very fun place to live in 10 years.  I'm still reeling about that ridiculous move by the council to require developers to include car parking in the CBD.  We need less parking in the CBD, not more!  If people continue to move here there will be more cars on the road, more traffic congestion, and no money to build any more roads (unless the Feds feel like p1$$ing some money against a wall).  Not to mention higher fuel prices (which is likely to be an ethanol or methanol and petrol blend).

I vote for everyone to take a Bex and have a good lie-down.

Maybe.

[ozbob]

Another important issue for me is infrastructure planning - getting it right.  No need to revisit some of the classic botches of late, but it saddens me greatly to see the poor compromises made to save money and then turn out a project way under budget, with a less than optimal result. Bizarre ...

[ozbob]

I'd have to say, that with policies which are becoming more and more clear, that I do not think that Brisbane will be a very fun place to live in 10 years.  I'm still reeling about that ridiculous move by the council to require developers to include car parking in the CBD.  We need less parking in the CBD, not more!  If people continue to move here there will be more cars on the road, more traffic congestion, and no money to build any more roads (unless the Feds feel like p1$$ing some money against a wall).  Not to mention higher fuel prices (which is likely to be an ethanol or methanol and petrol blend).

I vote for everyone to take a Bex and have a good lie-down.

Maybe.

Yep +1

[Stillwater]

With you there, Ozbob.   

[O_128]

If 15 minute frequency is unachievable to Petrie, then what will they do when Kippa-Ring comes on stream?

Yes, worrying.  I would have thought ramping up to Petrie with Richlands  <-> Petrie would be a good lead in for extension to Kippa Ring.

And even more worrying is that it is still not clear that the junction at Petrie will be a fly over as opposed to flat ...  oh my ...  I hope commonsense prevails here although some times when I look at the work between Corinda and Darra my eyes glaze over ... 

1. this is brisbane, common sense never prevails I wuld say about 85% it will be a flat junction.
2. Why no 15min to petrie?

[Gazza]

As Simon says, I'm not sure if it would be productive to go making separate 'expert' groups, what is needed is a single strong voice to advocate for PT in  Qld.

But the thing is, where do you draw the line in listening to the community versus doing what is better, eg. Here are some notable examples.

-When CRR was still going, at the time people from places such as Kippa Ring, Browns Plains etc complained that it wasn't fair "Inner city" people were being favoured for new infrastructure ahead of them. Do we listen to those members of the 'community', and do suburban extensions they want before the core is ready for it, or do we listen to the experts and get the core sorted first?

-If bus operators eventually come to their senses, and move to a trunk and feeder system, do we listen to the 'community' who complain about having to interchange, or do we listen to the experts that understand that this type of network allows better frequency more efficiently.

-I remember at a CRG someone complaining Corinda was going to lose its expresses, and there would be less trains overall, so crowding would increase. Do we listen to the 'community', and make the express trains even slower (They only save 8-9mins as it is!) and succumb to "express to my stationitis", or do we listen to the experts and adopt the new operating model as proposed (and is now in place).

-When people ask for more car parking, and suggest things like building car parks close in at places like Indooroopilly (Which will still only cater to a fraction of people that use the station daily), do we listen to the 'community' and keep spending $$$, knocking down houses and using up inner city land, or do we do the expert thing, and provide feeder buses?

But Bob, I'm just very interested in where we draw the line, and where we say "We understand, but this would work better instead".

[SurfRail]

And even more worrying is that it is still not clear that the junction at Petrie will be a fly over as opposed to flat ...  oh my ...  I hope commonsense prevails here although some times when I look at the work between Corinda and Darra my eyes glaze over ... 

The MBRL information released to date shows 4 platforms at Petrie, so it should be the same as Richlands and Northgate in that sense.  I fully expect it will be up-down-up-down, which is not ideal but better than 3 platforms - at least there would be no need for flat crosses to the north of the station.

What is not clear is the situation to the south of Petrie, as that is being dealt with outside the design of the new line itself for the time being.  Without further funding, you will be feeding an up-down-up-down arrangement into an up-up-down or up-down-down.

I would prefer that any set-up used allows for what I expect will ultimately need to be 4 tracks as far as Strathpine (or further in if Trouts Road Rail does not happen before the traffic volumes make the Strathpine-Northgate 3 track arrangement impossible to use reliably), without there being too much of a wasted investment.

But, things being as they are, we will probably end up with something identical to Richlands without the benefit of a flyover for off-peak consolidation onto 2 platforms.

[Golliwog]

Another important issue for me is infrastructure planning - getting it right.  No need to revisit some of the classic botches of late, but it saddens me greatly to see the poor compromises made to save money and then turn out a project way under budget, with a less than optimal result. Bizarre ...

+1. The budget is really stretched quite thin, so the attempts to cut costs are understandable. But need to be done by someone in the know. $1 cut from ammenities is not the same as $1 cut from overhead power supply.

[colinw]

The purpose of heavy rail is for long-distance passenger and freight movements.

In London, in the late 1800s, they figured heavy rail was good for inner city movement too! Guess what they built?

Have to agree with Gazza there.

Rail is good at long distance passenger and freight movements.

Rail is also very good at MASS TRANSPORT of people, even over short distances.  There are many short haul metro systems around the world that manage to carry more passengers than CityTrain on each individual double track line.

Regarding the Doomben line, I think upgrading it and extending to Hamilton North Shore is a no-brainer. That probably means it won't happen, because in Queensland we have LESS THAN NO BRAIN when it comes to planning & implementing public transport, particularly with the current administration which appears to have simply given up and put the whole rail system in the "too hard basket".

My reasons for stating upgrade & extension of Doomben is a no-brainer are:

1. The line traverses a relatively dense inner suburban environment that formerly supported an intensive tram service.  A lot of Clayfield, etc., has seen old Queenslanders knocked down and units built.  Many of these people use rail, but ignore Clayfield/Hendra in favour of Eagle Jct / Wooloowin due to the poor service frequency & run down facilities on the Doomben line.

2. There will soon be major trip generators along the line. A planned development at Doomben that could be a TOD, and a mixed residential/commercial development at Hamilton Northshore that will provide a much larger patronage base than say the Yeerongpilly TOD.

3. The Australia Trade Coast development is bringing a lot of employment in the area, which could easily be served by buses connecting from Doomben, and maybe even a rail service down the old Pinkenba line.  It often irqs me that we don't still run trains to the end of the wires at Eagle Farm given the presence of the TAFE and numerous employers (including an branch office of my own company that used to be reachable by rail).

4. Despite the slightly indirect route, Doomben to the CBD is quite a bit faster by rail than by bus, and that is with some quite low speed limits on the branch which could probably be increased with an upgrade.

5.  A full time Doomben service at reasonable frequency would serve Albion & Wooloowin well, allowing Caboolture trains to express past on the mains.  I would propose that all services running by the mains (Cab, Nambour, Kippa-Ring) run express, those on the suburbans (Shorncliffe, Doomben, Airport) serve all stations.  (Yes I know about the Airtrain contract, but the fact is the running time of an Airtrain service to Eagle Jct is the same as an all stations train, so why not stop 'em?)

6. The line is a logical extension of the Cleveland line services that wastefully terminate at Bowen Hills.  We could give Doomben an equivalent offpeak service to any other Brisbane line NOW if we wanted to, and patronage would pick up to comparable levels fairly quickly.

7. Kingsford Smith Drive + current traffic densites and bad public transport. Now add in 10,000+ residents and a major riverside boutique commercial development at Hamilton. Need I say any more?

8. A suburban line within 10km of a city centre with an HOURLY service?  Who are we kidding if we think that is sustainable?

9. If we don't fix the Doomben line, what future does it have?  I predict it will be closed within 10 years, the next to follow Tennyson, if we do not. (It already was closed from 1993 to 1998, and should be considered to be on "life support").

10. Any alternative to fixing the Doomben line is going to involve a lot more expense.  There are already suggestions of eventually taking a metro to Hamilton.

IMHO if you don't support fixing & extending the Doomben line, then you are effectively supporting its closure and giving up on rail into that entire sector of Brisbane along the northern side of the river.

[Fares_Fair]

I vote for everyone to take a Bex and have a good lie-down.

We're showing our age now.
Bex, a strong compound analgesic in the form of "A.P.C." or aspirin-phenacetin-caffeine tablets or powder.
Bex powders were the housewife's drug of choice in the 1950s and 1960s until they were shown to be highly addictive and responsible for causing kidney disease when taken in large doses. (source Wikipedia)

That leaves aspirin as the next best alternative ...

Regards,
Fares_Fair.

[Stillwater]

Actually, a Bex (or a Vincents) and a good lie-down were my grandmother's preferred afternoon pick-me-up. 

[ozbob]

Quite right phenacetin crystalises out in the kidneys and did cause a lot of damage.  Phenacetin was removed from the preparation.

Asprin is not without some issues too, can be a gastro-intestinal lining irritant for example.

The line was a cup of tea, a bex and a good lie down.  These days a cup of hot chocolate is as good as anything .. in fact I find the vending machines on the platforms at Central make a good cup of hot chocolate ...  

[somebody]

10. Any alternative to fixing the Doomben line is going to involve a lot more expense.  There are already suggestions of eventually taking a metro to Hamilton.

This is the killer argument IMO.  Without significant PT upgrades, there will need to be significant upgrades to Kingsford Smith Drive, and these cannot be done cheaply.  I don't know what is with the metro silliness - that's something we need like a hole in the head.

I like the suggestion of the Eagle Farm extension.  Is there a reason the line terminates at Doomben?  I presume someone would say that Eagle Farm station isn't up to scratch?

[ozbob]

Regarding the Doomben line, I think upgrading it and extending to Hamilton North Shore is a no-brainer. That probably means it won't happen, because in Queensland we have LESS THAN NO BRAIN when it comes to planning & implementing public transport, particularly with the current administration which appears to have simply given up and put the whole rail system in the "too hard basket".

My reasons for stating upgrade & extension of Doomben is a no-brainer are:

1. The line traverses a relatively dense inner suburban environment that formerly supported an intensive tram service.  A lot of Clayfield, etc., has seen old Queenslanders knocked down and units built.  Many of these people use rail, but ignore Clayfield/Hendra in favour of Eagle Jct / Wooloowin due to the poor service frequency & run down facilities on the Doomben line.

2. There will soon be major trip generators along the line. A planned development at Doomben that could be a TOD, and a mixed residential/commercial development at Hamilton Northshore that will provide a much larger patronage base than say the Yeerongpilly TOD.

3. The Australia Trade Coast development is bringing a lot of employment in the area, which could easily be served by buses connecting from Doomben, and maybe even a rail service down the old Pinkenba line.  It often irqs me that we don't still run trains to the end of the wires at Eagle Farm given the presence of the TAFE and numerous employers (including an branch office of my own company that used to be reachable by rail).

4. Despite the slightly indirect route, Doomben to the CBD is quite a bit faster by rail than by bus, and that is with some quite low speed limits on the branch which could probably be increased with an upgrade.

5.  A full time Doomben service at reasonable frequency would serve Albion & Wooloowin well, allowing Caboolture trains to express past on the mains.  I would propose that all services running by the mains (Cab, Nambour, Kippa-Ring) run express, those on the suburbans (Shorncliffe, Doomben, Airport) serve all stations.  (Yes I know about the Airtrain contract, but the fact is the running time of an Airtrain service to Eagle Jct is the same as an all stations train, so why not stop 'em?)

6. The line is a logical extension of the Cleveland line services that wastefully terminate at Bowen Hills.  We could give Doomben an equivalent offpeak service to any other Brisbane line NOW if we wanted to, and patronage would pick up to comparable levels fairly quickly.

7. Kingsford Smith Drive + current traffic densites and bad public transport. Now add in 10,000+ residents and a major riverside boutique commercial development at Hamilton. Need I say any more?

8. A suburban line within 10km of a city centre with an HOURLY service?  Who are we kidding if we think that is sustainable?

9. If we don't fix the Doomben line, what future does it have?  I predict it will be closed within 10 years, the next to follow Tennyson, if we do not. (It already was closed from 1993 to 1998, and should be considered to be on "life support").

10. Any alternative to fixing the Doomben line is going to involve a lot more expense.  There are already suggestions of eventually taking a metro to Hamilton.

IMHO if you don't support fixing & extending the Doomben line, then you are effectively supporting its closure and giving up on rail into that entire sector of Brisbane along the northern side of the river.

Nice summary Colin.  Added to this thread --> NorthShore / Doomben Line

[Fares_Fair]

Quite right phenacetin crystalises out in the kidneys and did cause a lot of damage.  Phenacetin was removed from the preparation.

Asprin is not without some issues too, can be a gastro-intestinal lining irritant for example.

The line was a cup of tea, a bex and a good lie down.  These days a cup of hot chocolate is as good as anything .. in fact I find the vending machines on the platforms at Central make a good cup of hot chocolate ...  

Maybe we should all do that sometime, meet at Central for a cuppa chocolate or coffee or whatever.
It was nice to meet and have a chat with Gazza,
Also good to catch up briefly with mufreight, ozbob and stillwater at the CRG on Wednesday night.
Having a name to a face tends to temper our responses here IMHO.  
We are all human and we all surely appreciate what ozbob has done for public transport.

Regards,
Fares_Fair.

[Derwan]

Service Numbers – North  p20,
"The Caboolture and North Coast lines have the greatest forecast increase in patronage before 2026, whereas the Shorncliffe, Doomben and Airport lines are not expected to increase greatly."

I missed a brilliant opportunity at the CRG when Theo asked for feedback on the new timetables.  Had I been a quicker thinker, I would've said the following:

"I live at Boondall on the Shorncliffe Line.  The new timetable has given me even more incentive to drive to Northgate every day to catch a train."

I was really annoyed by a comment made by QR on their Facebook page. It was something like "The Shorncliffe Line has one of the lowest patronages."  This seems to be the reason pushed for not addressing infrastructure and frequency issues on the line.  But the patronage is low because of the dismal frequency - with a far better frequency available by driving a few minutes down the road.

For the record I don't drive to Northgate every day.  The delays getting onto Sandgate Rd in the afternoon peak counter any gains made by catching an earlier service.  However I DO drive to Northgate on weekends and whenever I'm staying in the city after work (e.g. for CRG's).  When driving to Northgate in the morning, I'm generally in a queue of vehicles doing the Sandgate Rd trip to Northgate Station.

[HappyTrainGuy]

I like the suggestion of the Eagle Farm extension.  Is there a reason the line terminates at Doomben?  I presume someone would say that Eagle Farm station isn't up to scratch?

Depends which Eagle Farm station your looking at. The one with the shack or the forgotten platform

There's nothing at Eagle Farm in an area where there isn't much benefit to bring a station up to code with frequent services. Since it would be a terminating station there has to be facilities for train crew. Money better spent on another station until its needed there.

Current Eagle Farm Railway Station


Old Eagle Farm Railway Station

[somebody]

ed by a comment made by QR on their Facebook page. It was something like "The Shorncliffe Line has one of the lowest patronages."  This seems to be the reason pushed for not addressing infrastructure and frequency issues on the line.  But the patronage is low because of the dismal frequency - with a far better frequency available by driving a few minutes down the road.

I must say I feel your pain here.  Based on the 2009 survey, the peak patronage for Bindha-Shorncliffe exceeds Ormeau-Robina, and yet the Gold Coast line is "one of the busiest lines", but they describe the Shorncliffe line thus!

[colinw]

I'd much rather it go to Hamilton than Eagle Farm, but threw out Eagle Farm as an option simply because the TAFE and a lot of businesses are there.

Given the choice of the two, I'd go with high frequency rail to Hamilton North Shore, with a network of connecting buses to Australia Trade Coast, Pinkenba and DFO.

[colinw]

ed by a comment made by QR on their Facebook page. It was something like "The Shorncliffe Line has one of the lowest patronages."  This seems to be the reason pushed for not addressing infrastructure and frequency issues on the line.  But the patronage is low because of the dismal frequency - with a far better frequency available by driving a few minutes down the road.

I must say I feel your pain here.  Based on the 2009 survey, the peak patronage for Bindha-Shorncliffe exceeds Ormeau-Robina, and yet the Gold Coast line is "one of the busiest lines", but they describe the Shorncliffe line thus!

Self fulfilling prophecies.

Step 1. Declare branch line to be "low patronage".
Step 2. Skimp on service provision.
Step 3. Patronage falls as a result of poor services
Step 4. Repeat from Step 1 until line closes.

Doomben line, Tennyson line both are following this pattern.  Shorncliffe I think will survive.  Tonsley in Adelaide and Carlingford in Sydney are similar.

[somebody]

Since it would be a terminating station there has to be facilities for train crew.

That would be a fair point.  The TAFE is still walkable from Doomben station, although I'd have to think those factories near Eagle Farm station could get some reverse peak patronage.  The problem is that this would be in a different direction to North Shore.

[colinw]

Split topic to remove off-topic SA response.

For the Tonsley line discussion -> http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=6302.0

[Emmie]

I'm with Derwan - or at least just down the road at Sandgate. Things have gone backwards since the new timetable.  No improvements, longer trips. No through trains to Toowong (or other stations to Corinda) is particularly infuriating. Sandgate to UQ now takes 2 changes, either at Central and Toowong, or Central and Park Rd.

[Gazza]

As Simon says, I'm not sure if it would be productive to go making separate 'expert' groups, what is needed is a single strong voice to advocate for PT in  Qld.

But the thing is, where do you draw the line in listening to the community versus doing what is better, eg. Here are some notable examples.

[Snip]

But Bob, I'm just very interested in where we draw the line, and where we say "We understand, but this would work better instead".

[ozbob]

Just give and take, there are obviously no hard rules, often it just comes to down judgement based on observations, feedback and conversations.

Education is part of the process, I have spent a lot of time explaining the rationale for timetable changes to punters.  Once they understand the basis of the changes they are generally more accepting.  A good example of this is the bypassing of Oxley and Corinda on the express pattern.

I have also attempted to explain the rationale for the Sunshine Coast line timetable to some as well.  Some understand, others just abuse me.  Such is life.

One of things that has dissappointed me greatly with the recent timetable changes has been the pathetic efforts by TransLink and Queensland Rail to publicly fully explain why certain things are being done as they are.  If this rationale had been made available on the web etc. I think they would have a much better result in terms of positive PR.  I hope they have learned this lesson and are more pro-active in phase 2.

Another good example of botched communication has been the failure to properly publicise the general 15 minute out of peak frequency Darra <-> Northgate as I highlighted at the recent CRG.  

[ozbob]

-When people ask for more car parking, and suggest things like building car parks close in at places like Indooroopilly (Which will still only cater to a fraction of people that use the station daily), do we listen to the 'community' and keep spending $$$, knocking down houses and using up inner city land, or do we do the expert thing, and provide feeder buses?

The evidence speaks for itself, we are it seems a lone voice for feeder buses (and station buses), I think we have been strident for that.  In fact I rate the failure to incorporate a bus exchange at Indooroopilly rail as part of the upgrade as one of the major transport failings of the recent era, and have said so to TransLink, Government and specialist advisers.

Obviously it is 'horses for courses', there are some issues where clearly the public interest is best served by opposing the 'group think', others it is not so defined.  That is why it does come to down to a consideration of a number of factors, including public opinion at times.  An advocacy group must be cognisant of that, but that does not necessarily mean that it is the absolute best position.  Compromise is very important in all these processes, and is a hallmark of all political processes.  

[Fares_Fair]

Just give and take, there are obviously no hard rules, often it just comes to down judgement based on observations, feedback and conservations.

Education is part of the process, I have spent a lot of time explaining the rationale for timetable changes to punters.  Once they understand the basis of the changes they are generally more accepting.  A good example of this is the bypassing of Oxley and Corinda on the express pattern.

I have also attempted to explain the rationale for the Sunshine Coast line timetable to some as well.  Some understand, others just abuse me.  Such is life.

One of things that has dissappointed me greatly with the recent timetable changes has been the pathetic efforts by TransLink and Queensland Rail to publicly fully explain why certain things are being done as they are.  If this rationale had been made available on the web etc. I think they would have a much better result in terms of positive PR.  I hope they have learned this lesson and are more pro-active in phase 2.

Another good example of botched communication has been the failure to properly publicise the general 15 minute out of peak frequency Darra <-> Northgate as I highlighted at the recent CRG.  

Hello ozbob,

I am extremely disappointed and saddened to hear that this has occurred. There can be no excuse for such poor behaviour.

You are spot on with the point about QR and TRANSLink explaining things, in my letters to both the CEO's of QR and TRANSLink I said that "an informed commuter is a happier commuter."
I explain to the many Sunshine Coast commuters I see that there just isn't the room on the line for the express services that we used to enjoy and that it would mean a reduction in services to areas closer to Brisbane. The reason, as we all know, is infrastructure.

As you and I have said, the crux of this entire issue is the neglect of INFRASTRUCTURE, clearly described for the Sunshine Coast at the Beerburrum bottleneck and NCL stabling facilities, and all the associated freight path issues to boot. The Ministerial briefing note I obtained says it all.

If there is anything I can do to prevent the abuse and what you have described, or to talk to commuters, I would be more than willing to do so.

Kind regards,
Fares_Fair.