POLL: Most burning issues for SEQ PT - try 2

[ozbob]

Thanks FF, no worries. We just have to keep explaining the real position.  Part of the problem is not us per se, but the failure of the authorities to adequately explain.  Also in some cases, individuals will not see reason from an entrenched position no matter how balanced a counter view point is.

[mufreight]

-When people ask for more car parking, and suggest things like building car parks close in at places like Indooroopilly (Which will still only cater to a fraction of people that use the station daily), do we listen to the 'community' and keep spending $$$, knocking down houses and using up inner city land, or do we do the expert thing, and provide feeder buses?

The evidence speaks for itself, we are it seems a lone voice for feeder buses (and station buses), I think we have been strident for that.  In fact I rate the failure to incorporate a bus exchange at Indooroopilly rail as part of the upgrade as one of the major transport failings of the recent era, and have said so TranLink, Government and specialist advisers.
 

Seems that the Translink/Queensland Transport concept of feeder buses is that currently in use on the SCL, catch a bus from Nambour to Caboolture where it feeds a train, sometimes.
The RBoT concept differs slightly, feeder service from say River Hills to Darra that actually co-ordinates with the rail service and runs a bit more than 7am to 5.30pm

[somebody]

The RBoT concept differs slightly, feeder service from say River Hills to Darra that actually co-ordinates with the rail service and runs a bit more than 7am to 5.30pm

And yet, interestingly, feeder buses at Inala/Forest Lake aren't supported: http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=6189.0

[ozbob]

The RBoT concept differs slightly, feeder service from say River Hills to Darra that actually co-ordinates with the rail service and runs a bit more than 7am to 5.30pm

And yet, interestingly, feeder buses at Inala/Forest Lake aren't supported: http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=6189.0

The buses are doing something else than just feeding in that context, that is a service along Ipswich road.

[ozbob]

Local feeder buses, station buses, are essential as park n' rides become swamped.  No point in knocking down yet more houses and so forth.  Some locations park n' rides are needed, but a combination of solutions is increasingly needed.
The other dimension is that as the population ages, better local transport options will be needed.  FlexiLink is limited, there are only so many taxis and so forth.

[somebody]

The RBoT concept differs slightly, feeder service from say River Hills to Darra that actually co-ordinates with the rail service and runs a bit more than 7am to 5.30pm

And yet, interestingly, feeder buses at Inala/Forest Lake aren't supported: http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=6189.0

The buses are doing something else than just feeding in that context, that is a service along Ipswich road.

I disagree.  There is one stop south of the junction with Beaudesert Rd* and that is adjacent to Moorooka Railway station.  The Ipswich Rd service could have been provided by Moorooka Railway station and the Beaudesert Rd buses: 110, 115, 117, 124, 125.

Perhaps I didn't really make that point in the OP.  No one raised it though.

* not counting Clifton Hill O/B which is immediately after the junction

[ozbob]

I would think that one poll on a possible buz 100 which is a useful communication bus route means that we don't support feeder or interchange.  Far from it.  There are many situations where buses make connections that rail cannot, route 100 is an example of that. The fact the folks think buzzing it is worthwhile is just a reflection of its local utility.  The feeders into Richlands generally are working well, particularly the 465 which I have had a lot of feedback on.

[somebody]

FWIW, I don't think I said that "we don't support interchange", just that it wasn't supported in this instance.

I'd question whether there is much value in the 100's destinations south of the Gabba other than PAH though.  Reaching PAH could be done via the 104.

EDIT: I'll have to also add that the 100 doesn't allow a connection to Indooroopilly, which is IMO a major failing - this is the major shopping for the west.

The 465 is interesting.  The recent timetable change saw all the short workings to Forest Lake chopped out, so perhaps those that like it are those from Heathwood which previously had almost no PT other than the 118 and 534.

[somebody]

Time you all took a reality check.  We are not going to get 15 minutes to everywhere for many many years unless there are some dramatic changes.  This was made very clear the other night at the combined CRG.

It is frustrating, surely Richlands could be extended to Petrie to provide a similar overlap as to Darra?  You would think so, but then the usual counter arguments are rolled out, this train path that train path and so forth.

Maybe privatisation, Melbourne style, may be the answer.

[Stillwater]

Not in a Labor state where the government relies on union support.  I know it is a bit different to other privatisations recently, but handing over to private enterprise another Queensland asset that people regard as 'theirs' would be political suicide in the cirrent electoral climate.

What's wrong with going after 20min frequency as a stepping stone to 15min frequency?  While still maintaining 15 minute frequency as the ultimate goal.

[somebody]

Not in a Labor state where the government relies on union support.  I know it is a bit different to other privatisations recently, but handing over to private enterprise another Queensland asset that people regard as 'theirs' would be political suicide in the cirrent electoral climate.

Not likely to be a labour state for much longer!

What's wrong with going after 20min frequency as a stepping stone to 15min frequency?  While still maintaining 15 minute frequency as the ultimate goal.

The major problem with this is that it doesn't work well on the current infrastructure.  20 minute Gold Coast+20 minute Beenleigh isn't achievable.  It also doesn't work well for the Cleveland line.  It's probably OK for the other lines, but then you cannot easily to to a tiered service later, particularly on the Ipswich line.  If we went to 6tph on the Ipswich line, I'd much rather 4tph Richlands + 2tph IPS express.

[somebody]

Time you all took a reality check.  We are not going to get 15 minutes to everywhere for many many years unless there are some dramatic changes.  This was made very clear the other night at the combined CRG.

It is frustrating, surely Richlands could be extended to Petrie to provide a similar overlap as to Darra?  You would think so, but then the usual counter arguments are rolled out, this train path that train path and so forth.

Were the counter peak services raised at the CRG?  Was there similar ducking and weaving to the notion of upgrading that?

[ozbob]

Time you all took a reality check.  We are not going to get 15 minutes to everywhere for many many years unless there are some dramatic changes.  This was made very clear the other night at the combined CRG.

It is frustrating, surely Richlands could be extended to Petrie to provide a similar overlap as to Darra?  You would think so, but then the usual counter arguments are rolled out, this train path that train path and so forth.

Were the counter peak services raised at the CRG?  Was there similar ducking and weaving to the notion of upgrading that?

Can't recall, don't think it was explicity but all in the general frequency basket case.

[ozbob]

Not in a Labor state where the government relies on union support.  I know it is a bit different to other privatisations recently, but handing over to private enterprise another Queensland asset that people regard as 'theirs' would be political suicide in the cirrent electoral climate.

What's wrong with going after 20min frequency as a stepping stone to 15min frequency?  While still maintaining 15 minute frequency as the ultimate goal.

Nothing, much prefer that to the present mess.  If 20 minutes is not achievable then how can 15 minute?  LOL

[ozbob]

The people on the Iswich line past Darra would be very grateful for three trains an hour, as would people on the Caboolture line no doubt.  I know I would.  As explained previously a 20 minute Richlands minute frequency combined with a 20 minute frequency out of Ipswich would allow around the clock express Darra to town.  The only down side is a drop in off peak frequency from 15 minute to 20 minute Oxley to Milton (except the stations stopped at by express) instead of the present 15 minute.  Alternatively just run them as all stoppers means 10 minute frequency Darra to town.

[somebody]

The people on the Iswich line past Darra would be very grateful for three trains an hour, as would people on the Caboolture line no doubt.  I know I would.  As explained previously a 20 minute Richlands minute frequency combined with a 20 minute frequency out of Ipswich would allow around the clock express Darra to town.  The only down side is a drop in off peak frequency from 15 minute to 20 minute Oxley to Milton (except the stations stopped at by express) instead of the present 15 minute.  Alternatively just run them as all stoppers means 10 minute frequency Darra to town.

That's right, I remember that now.  I'd be surprised if it happened that way, but you never know.  It means that the stations not served by the express are to receive a downgrade, which I would consider unlikely, especially in near an election.

If 20 minutes is not achievable then how can 15 minute?

It can't beyond Kuraby.  It's also very difficult beyond Manly.

[ozbob]

That's right, I remember that now.  I'd be surprised if it happened that way, but you never know.  It means that the stations not served by the express are to receive a downgrade, which I would consider unlikely, especially in near an election.

Some imaginative media releases by the mob at George St whirling top factory  should take care of that!   

[mufreight]

The people on the Iswich line past Darra would be very grateful for three trains an hour, as would people on the Caboolture line no doubt.  I know I would.  As explained previously a 20 minute Richlands minute frequency combined with a 20 minute frequency out of Ipswich would allow around the clock express Darra to town.  The only down side is a drop in off peak frequency from 15 minute to 20 minute Oxley to Milton (except the stations stopped at by express) instead of the present 15 minute.  Alternatively just run them as all stoppers means 10 minute frequency Darra to town.

It is doubtful that Ipswich commuters would be described as grateful with a 20 minute frequency, less unhappy would be a better description, rember that in November 2009 both the then Transport Minister Nothing Nolan and the Premier Blight both committed to a 15 minute off peak frequency for the Ipswich line to Ipswich, not as their spin doctors would now have people believe a 15 minute frequency on the Ipswich line to Darra which is effectively only an extension of the then existing 15 minute frequency that was in operation to Corinda.

[ozbob]

I share your pain mu.  But compared to the present service, 20 minutes would of course be a lot better.  I have lost any hope for 15 minute frequency west of Darra for some time unfortunately, so next best option.

[somebody]

rember that in November 2009 both the then Transport Minister Nothing Nolan and the Premier Blight both committed to a 15 minute off peak frequency for the Ipswich line to Ipswich,

Are you sure?  Do you have a link?  ExpressLink was incredibly short on details.

[ozbob]

I can't recall a direct committment, but that doesn't mean they didn't of course.

Here are some vague committments ..

http://www.cabinet.qld.gov.au/mms/StatementDisplaySingle.aspx?id=71319

Joint Statement:

Premier and Minister for the Arts
The Honourable Anna Bligh

Minister for Transport
The Honourable Rachel Nolan

Tuesday, August 31, 2010

No need for timetables with turn-up-and-go services

Timetables will be a thing of the past with 'turn-up-and-go' public transport services proposed under the State Government's plans to double the share of public transport in the next 20 years.

Premier Anna Bligh said the high-frequency, high-reliability services would operate along core rail and bus routes.

The plans are part of the government's Integrated Regional Transport Plan for South East Queensland, which will be released today.

Connecting SEQ 2031: An Integrated Regional Transport Plan for South East Queensland is a blueprint for transport development in SEQ over the next 20 years.

"We want to deliver faster and more reliable services to encourage more south east Queenslanders to ditch their cars and choose public transport," Ms Bligh said.

"We're proposing a level of service on the region's routes, that delivers short wait times and high reliability.

"In 2006, 15 per cent of South East Queenslanders lived within 800 metres of a high-frequency public transport service, with a frequency of 15 minutes or better.

"In 2031, that number will double, and we want to double public transport patronage along with it – from seven to 14 per cent of transport trips taken in the region.

"If you knew there would be a train or bus at least every 15 minutes, you could take a relaxed approach with the confidence you would reach your destination on time."

Transport Minister Rachel Nolan said the 'turn-up-and-go' network would provide:

    frequency of 15 minutes all day, (at least 6am to 9pm), seven days a week
    quality shelters and passenger information
    simplified high-frequency network map, with no need for a timetable.

"Rail commuters travelling to the city from Redbank, Strathpine, LoganLea, Ferny Grove, Manly and the Brisbane Airport would be the first to benefit from a staged roll-out of more frequent, higher capacity rail services, which will be named UrbanLink services," Ms Nolan said.

"In the longer term these UrbanLink services will operate from Coomera to Coolangatta on the Gold Coast and Beerwah to Maroochydore on the Sunshine Coast.

"We're also looking at new trains that carry more passengers with wider doors to make it easier to get on and off."

Ms Nolan said buses would also play a significant role in the doubling of public transport patronage.

"Our busways have delivered huge benefits to commuters, with some parts carrying more than 12,400 passengers per hour one-way, while a typical motorway lane carries about 2000 people per hour," she said.

"Where busways aren't able to be built, we're looking at creating priority for buses at intersections such as through lights or dedicated bus queue jump lanes so they don't get held up in traffic and can keep commuters moving to their destinations."

Ms Nolan said the public transport targets reflected and reinforced outcomes of the Queensland Government's Growth Management Summit, held in March 2010.

[somebody]

15 minutes to Loganlea eh?  Must be assuming the quad to Banoon from the ICRCS.  Redbank is interesting also.  If going to Redbank, why not Ipswich? (rhetorical question)

I must say, that given the revelations in this thread, I wonder if we should focus on counter peak?  While not exactly leading the poll, something on that might actually be done!

[ozbob]

Remember Redbank is also presumed to have a triple from there to Darra as well  (despite structures being built in the corridor .. lol).

Counter peak is always worth highlighting from time to time.

[Stillwater]

15 min frequency Brisbane airport between 6am and 9pm?  (Note no timeframe, never a timeframe.) A whole team of genetic scientists must be at work isolating the wing genes of eagles and mixing them with pig DNA to celebrate this eventuality.

[somebody]

I'm with Derwan - or at least just down the road at Sandgate. Things have gone backwards since the new timetable.  No improvements, longer trips. No through trains to Toowong (or other stations to Corinda) is particularly infuriating. Sandgate to UQ now takes 2 changes, either at Central and Toowong, or Central and Park Rd.

I knew you'd like this change.  Checking the old timetable, the first 3 trains and the daytime trains continue past Roma St.  AM peak and evening trains terminated at Roma St.

Is it the loss of the early morning single change or the daytime one which is most annoying?

[BrizCommuter]

Going by the voting, looks like there will be 16 disappointed people this year!

[somebody]

Going by the voting, looks like there will be 16 disappointed people this year!

I think there might be 27 disappointed people.  <ducks>

[BrizCommuter]

Going by the voting, looks like there will be 16 disappointed people this year!

I think there might be 27 disappointed people.  <ducks>

Sadly true.

[Gazza]

I'm with Derwan - or at least just down the road at Sandgate. Things have gone backwards since the new timetable.  No improvements, longer trips. No through trains to Toowong (or other stations to Corinda) is particularly infuriating. Sandgate to UQ now takes 2 changes, either at Central and Toowong, or Central and Park Rd.

Could you train to Central, then a 109/412 from BCC HQ? Thats one change...

[Golliwog]

I'm with Derwan - or at least just down the road at Sandgate. Things have gone backwards since the new timetable.  No improvements, longer trips. No through trains to Toowong (or other stations to Corinda) is particularly infuriating. Sandgate to UQ now takes 2 changes, either at Central and Toowong, or Central and Park Rd.

Could you train to Central, then a 109/412 from BCC HQ? Thats one change...

I used to do that. It's not a hard walk and if you take the ANZAC square exit or go down the long escalator and through the arcade its not a long walk and theres only 2 sets of lights. But I do see what the problem is though. Changing at Park Rd or Toowong is much much simpler, and while I have no problems changing in the CBD I prefer not to.

[somebody]

I would have thought Adelaide St stop 16 to/from Central is a fairly significant walk - about 10 minutes.  Enough to make it not exactly a convenient interchange.

[Golliwog]

Possibly. I don't know, I never timed it as it never bothered me. It's an easy walk though. As a guess I'd hazard, 5-10minutes? If you go via the Edward and Adelaide St intersection, you can ignore the red don't walk man for part of the cycle when Adelaide St has green lights thanks to Edward St being one way.