A fee for park n' ride?

[ozbob]

Park n' rides cost.  Do you think there should be a fee for use?

[SurfRail]

Absolutely.

Payment via go card only.

[somebody]

I voted yes, but I would go further and say that such things should be provided only by the private sector, on commercial terms.  Perhaps the public sector can assist with land acquisition only.

The NWRL is apparently happening this way, but I would say that Sydney is far more advanced than Brisbane in matters of town planning.

[albiwan]

If there are no transport alternatives such as feeder buses, fees are inappropriate at this stage and politically untenable.

[colinw]

Absolutely.

Payment via go card only.

How would you enforce it?  Pay & Display with Go Card payment?

I voted yes by the way, it really steams me up every time I see press releases touting the latest multi-million dollar carpark which provides parking spaces that cost $20K each or more.

[Golliwog]

They would need to work on the feeder buses before they started charging though.

[somebody]

They would need to work on the feeder buses before they started charging though.

Not really.  Start charging and see the popular support for feeder buses increase massively.

[#Metro]

If you use it, you should pay for it.
End of story.

Walk. Ride a bicycle. Drive and pay.
No need to link it to something else more difficult in an attempt to stall the process..

[Golliwog]

They would need to work on the feeder buses before they started charging though.

Not really.  Start charging and see the popular support for feeder buses increase massively.

I drive because my feeder bus stops running around 5pm. So I should have to pay to park at the train station because of this?

[somebody]

They would need to work on the feeder buses before they started charging though.

Not really.  Start charging and see the popular support for feeder buses increase massively.

I drive because my feeder bus stops running around 5pm. So I should have to pay to park at the train station because of this?

Basically, yes.

What you are saying is that you can't choose where you live.

[SurfRail]

They would need to work on the feeder buses before they started charging though.

Not really.  Start charging and see the popular support for feeder buses increase massively.

I'm going to disagree there.  It does need to be supply driven, and charging end users for park'n'ride politically won't survive without good alternatives.

I keep hearing from my friends up at Caboolture Bus Lines how their loadings are improving considerably since their additional services were added (notwithstanding the scheduling/rostering isn't too brilliant) - there is clearly demand and support for better bus connections even now.

Where is the equivalent of the annual BT fleet expansion for the private operators?

[Golliwog]

What you are saying is that you can't choose where you live.

No, but what I'm saying is people have moved to where they are currently to take advantage of rail and park n' ride arrangements as they existed. To dump an extra charge on without providing some form of compensation is a bit rich.

[somebody]

What you are saying is that you can't choose where you live.

No, but what I'm saying is people have moved to where they are currently to take advantage of rail and park n' ride arrangements as they existed. To dump an extra charge on without providing some form of compensation is a bit rich.

To some degree that is fair.  I'm more thinking about new park 'n' rides.

[Stillwater]

The 'arrangements' of which you speak are NOT available.  The shopping centre management company provides the carparks so people can shop in the centre.  If that car space occupied by a bus commuter is hogged all day, people otherwise attracted to Chermside because of the 'convenient shopper parking' are not going to go there and are not going to shop their either.  The paid parking arrangement is a means of rooting out of the carpark all those all-day parkers who leave their car there and travel to the city via bus.

I don't know why Translink does not explore options for having buses run by churches and sporting fields, where the carparks lie idle during the week.  BCC control many of the sporting venues.  Maybe feeder buses could run from these places to Chermside.

[SurfRail]

Making the Great Circle line work as something other than a daytrip for pensioners would probably help as well!

[BrizCommuter]

If you charge for station car parking, some commuters will just drive all the way to work instead. Do RBoT readers really want to add to road congestion?

[achiruel]

I selected other.  I believe any fee charged should be demand-based, not a fixed fee.  e.g. Park Rd has a small carpark which fills early in the day, whereas other stations such as Kingston has a quite large car park and there are  empty spaces available most days.

Park Rd parking might be worth $10 whereas Kingston might only be worth $2.  Also consider the possibility for people to just park in adjacent streets, the surrounding streets would then need to have parking regulations implemented and enforced.

[HappyTrainGuy]

I'm saying no to the majority. Yes if the bus stop/interchange is at major shopping centres like Westfield at Chermside (You couldn't call the Aspley Hypermarket a couple minutes away a major shopping centre? always giant portions of space available at midday) and No to train stations that already/will provide park and rides.

Why should I have to pay for a parking spot near a bus stop or train station when I might aswell pay a couple dollars extra to park in the city (Taking in bus/train fares), use my business/buildings free parking or just park in a side street near work or near the stop/station. The major draw card for park and ride facilities for me (And I'm sure there are others out there) was the free parking and just walking a few metres to the train or bus. Shouldn't the fares that we pay now go towards providing this rather than adding it on as an extra?

[Derwan]

The closer you are to the city, the closer the stations are together and the denser the population is.  The further out you go, the more difficult it is to adequately provide feeder buses for everyone - particularly beyond the end of the line where people have no choice but to drive at least part of the distance even if a feeder bus is operating for nearby residents.

Perhaps any set fee should be based on the zone.  For example:

Zone 2: $3.00
Zone 3: $2.50
Zone 4: $2.00
Zone 5: $1.50
Zone 6: $1.00

Higher zones would be free.  (This is just an example without analysing the availability of feeder buses, etc)

[somebody]

Shouldn't the fares that we pay now go towards providing this rather than adding it on as an extra?

NO.  That would suck up almost the entire fare revenue for the effected pax, and in some cases exceed the fare revenue.

If you charge for station car parking, some commuters will just drive all the way to work instead. Do RBoT readers really want to add to road congestion?

If you put up the fares you achieve the same result.  If we have a fixed subsidy %, then spending the available funds on parking really is money poorly spent.  Parking only becomes value for money if someone else pays, and the resistance to charging for it bears this out.

[Golliwog]

I would be in favour of working around segment by segment to improve the feeder buses and as you go, then implementing the park n' ride fee. EG: Improve buses along the FG line from FG to Mitchelton, and impose parking fees at FG, Grovely and Mitchelton. Keperra and Oxford Park have parking too but Keperra has maybe a dozen parking spots total and Oxford Park is angle parking down the street and also isn't that many. Then next go for stations Gaythorne to Newmarket or something and work your way along.

[HappyTrainGuy]

So basically a parking toll. Yay! Another toll 

[somebody]

So basically a parking toll. Yay! Another toll 

[HappyTrainGuy]

What would you call it? 3 bucks to drive through a tunnel and 3 bucks just to park your car. For someone that works Monday-Friday for 40 weeks a year had to fork out an extra $600 on top of their fare which is still increasing what do you think they would call it?

[Golliwog]

Its a tough issue. While I think people should find ways to get to stations other than driving, putting a price on parking is going to be unpopular. It might have to be enough to stop increasing parking space in favour of improving bus services to stations, as well as providing facilities for those who wish to ride. I'm intrigued to see what happens with Ferny Grove once two bike lockers as well as showers and change rooms are installed as per the current plan. Do any other train stations how showers?

[Jonno]

It will come as no surprise that I voted other as I do not support parking at stations. You know my stance is to replace them with vibrant, active and safe plazas as the centre of a TOD with feeder/cross town bus routes. 

As soon as paid parking is introduced the temptation to expand as it is income generating grows and we end up with unsafe, dark and ugly multi-level car parking.  No way !!

[#Metro]

What would you call it? 3 bucks to drive through a tunnel and 3 bucks just to park your car. For someone that works Monday-Friday for 40 weeks a year had to fork out an extra $600 on top of their fare which is still increasing what do you think they would call it?

Just because someone doesn't like paying IS NOT a good enough reason. By extension, I could say I don't like paying for anything and that everything should be free. Of course that is not going to work. If people want the benefit, they should pay for it. Simple.

[ButFli]

Absolutely.

Payment via go card only.

How would you enforce it?  Pay & Display with Go Card payment?

Boom gate that can only be opened with a Go card?

[HappyTrainGuy]

Just because someone doesn't like paying IS NOT a good enough reason. By extension, I could say I don't like paying for anything and that everything should be free. Of course that is not going to work. If people want the benefit, they should pay for it. Simple.

Just because some people live next to a buz/train route doesn't mean that those disadvantaged by sweet f a have to fork out extra just to be able to get to one. I happen to live within walking distance of a bus stop that goes to the city. Its excellent that the first service is after I'm supposed to be at work and its also excellent that the last service is before I finish work hence why driving a couple minutes to the railway station that has trains running past at 4.30am and with the last train leaving the city at midnight is the better option (I could catch a bus to the train station but the first one is at 8.30am... great bus services 15km from the city I must admit). I'm also a couple km from a buz route that doesn't go anywhere near without a long walk to my work.

Have a look at the fantastic services Murrumba Downs has and wonder why many still drive to Petrie Railway Station - http://translink.com.au/resources/travel-information/services-and-timetables/timetables/110606-675,676.pdf - Not to worry though, they should free up some parking spots at Petire once the Kippa Ring line gets built  

[somebody]

I don't think anyone is saying that feeder buses don't have room for improvement.

[HappyTrainGuy]

Just had a look at the journey planner and if I currently caught a bus it would take me 1h2m just to get to the station..... I think its quicker to take the 1.5km crawl there *facepalm*

[p858snake]

Absolutely.

Payment via go card only.

How would you enforce it?  Pay & Display with Go Card payment?

I voted yes by the way, it really steams me up every time I see press releases touting the latest multi-million dollar carpark which provides parking spaces that cost $20K each or more.

You could probably do half the parking as a "Secure park" type area which you need to swipe the go card to get into.


Also why did QR stop doing the secure parking areas at the larger stations hwere they would lock off certain areas of the park during the day and night?

[somebody]

Just had a look at the journey planner and if I currently caught a bus it would take me 1h2m just to get to the station..... I think its quicker to take the 1.5km crawl there *facepalm*

How is this.

[HappyTrainGuy]

My knowledge with busses isn't that wide but when the P bus takes over for peak it cuts out a large portion (And an interchange) where other busses run leaving the option to interchange with anything what so ever in both directions very limited and difficult in peak.

Adding busses going the opposite way isn't diserable aswell. It takes you to the station in the next zone over, takes 10-15 mins going past schools and drops you off in a side street 200m away from the station instead of at the bus/train interchange. If you were going to the city you might aswell just get the City bound bus that takes 50-55 mins rather than get on a bus for 10 mins and then jump on a train that does it in 35 mins.

[BribieG]

I live on Bribie and park at Morayfield, on a seniors go card it's a tad over $5 return to the Valley (I work 2 afternoon/evenings a week and travel offpeak, there are no buses to Bribie in the evening) if they introduced parking fees it would probably put my travel up 60 percent and for the added convenience I'd probably go back to driving in and parking at the subsidised parking at Chinatown. Sunday shifts, which I often do, there's heaps of free street parking anyway.

"if you use it then pay for it" = "user pays" = ok then let the fares reflect the true cost of running the system - anyone for a $50 round trip zones 1-8?  :conf. Seems to go right against the argument that public transport should be subsidised as it is a benefit to the whole economy, development and environment and not just another commercial profit driven service.

[Jonno]

...(1) if we include all indirect benefits from the public transport investment we would charge half the price of today and(2) if we did the same for the road investment it would cost you $100 dollars uf you drove. 

Don't complain about public transport subsidies until you understand road subsidies are far greater!! Who pays for the 40 billion in road trauma cost? Not your rego or fuel taxes!!

[BribieG]

I love public transport subsidies,  I was - like you - arguing against the user pays "economic rationalist" 1980s approach.

[SurfRail]

I think it has more to do with the fact that encouraging people to drive to public transport is an extremely ineffective way of stimulating patronage, and spending millions of dollars on parking spaces represents millions of dollars that should go into services.  If people want to park their lump of steel in an unprotected open space for 12 hours of the day, why should every other commuter have to pay for that by missing out on better frequency and feeder buses?

[dwb]

They would need to work on the feeder buses before they started charging though.

Why?

[dwb]

Park n' rides cost.  Do you think there should be a fee for use?

Absolutely. I do not believe it should be flat fee across the network across time. I think it should be variable based on location (higher demand higher cost) and on time spent there... eg day use should cost more than say under 3hrs.