Overcrowding Shocker : never in 12 Years ...

[Stillwater]

In many respects, this single train, its absence from earlier draft timetables, its shifting closer to 5pm in others and the endless, endless and copious submissions about this service was the pivotal issue and symbol of the Sunshine Coast Line timetable discussions.  Translink and QR were told, ad infinitum about what would happen.  And it has come to pass.  Their response to date? Text people asking them to catch another train.  And this for a critical group of customers for whom catching services timed at sparse intervals to arrive home at a reasonable hour was so vital to their family life.  They made that known, some went 'on strike' over it.  QR needs to be both responsive and reasonable when looking at solutions.

[Fares_Fair]

QR response received today (and quickly to their credit).
But it is all bad news, no mention of doing anything other than watching and hoping passengers will vaporise as the weeks go by.

There is exceedingly growing discontent on the Sunshine Coast, fuelled by the Ministers very public statements not being actioned.
Her credibility is unfortunately destroyed over the promised 6 and 12 month ticket action, (or any other ticket sytem in lieu) in time for the state budget routine.
No explanation for her inability to follow through on her word.

Dear Mr (name removed)


Thank you for contacting Queensland Rail with your customer feedback.  Our Service Planning area has supplied the following response to be passed on to you.

Service planning have been monitoring this service since the implementation of the new timetable on the 06 June 2011.  We have observed the service is heavily loaded. We will continue to monitor this service as this could settle down as their will be a settling in period with the new timetable.

As customers become familiar with the new timetable it is possible that the sporadic spikes in loading on services will balance out.

We thank you for taking the time to contact us with your customer feedback and ask for your patience in this time of change


Kind regards


Apparently we are going to settle down (obviously on the floor of the carriage, cause there ain't no seats).
I am incensed by the so-called 'sporadic' spikes (a complete misnomer as they range from 50 - 75 standees each night) hardly sporadic, more like continual.

Regards,
Fares_Fair.

[Golliwog]

But to be fair, changing the timetable based on 1 weeks worth of load data would be like watching Gympie Rd for 1 particularly bad week and saying "Holy crap guys, lets add an extra lane, this last week has been busy".

That said, I would agree that from the way you describe it, something probably needs to be done.

[ozbob]

FF Queensland Rail are  looking at options.  Patience ...

[Fares_Fair]

Hello ozbob,

I am trying, really I am.
The answer I received above from QR made no such chance for reprieve as I read it.
Hence my clear (and IMHO justified) frustration.

It would be much better if QR gave us some kind of hope for improvement, but they haven't to me.
Thank you for your assurance, I know it carries much 'weight'.

Regards,
Fares_Fair.

[somebody]

Is there a reason why they are holding out against adding the Caboolture service 6 minutes earlier?  Rolling stock availability?

It is clear that the loadings violate their own standards.

[BrizCommuter]

I guess they will be cranky if they have to print a whole heap of new timetables 

It wouldn't be the first time that has happened!

[Arnz]

Is there a reason why they are holding out against adding the Caboolture service 6 minutes earlier?  Rolling stock availability?

It is clear that the loadings violate their own standards.

Or leaving 6 mins later for that matter (5:24pm from Roma Street, leaves 5:28pm from Central)

[somebody]

Is there a reason why they are holding out against adding the Caboolture service 6 minutes earlier?  Rolling stock availability?

It is clear that the loadings violate their own standards.

Or leaving 6 mins later for that matter (5:24pm from Roma Street, leaves 5:28pm from Central)

The earlier service is the one which would reduce the overcrowding on the 17:22.  A later service would be significantly less effective.

[Stillwater]

Caught the 5.22pm this afternoon the check out the situation.  Interestingly, there were 4 counters monitoring the ebb and flow of passengers all the way through to Nambour, where all four got off and compared notes.  This was not a one-off exercise, I understand from a brief conversation with one of the counters, so it is clear that QR is being true to its word and is very actively monitoring the situation, not just using that line as a bit of throwaway spin.

[Zoiks]

That is very good on behalf of QR. They are obviously are taking notice. No doubt this data would be passed onto Translink to say if we had funding for this train, this is the likely outcome.

How about less whinging and attacking QR and more constructive criticism and complements for the effort they are putting in.

[somebody]

Went down to Central just after 5pm yesterday, and I can support Fares_Fair's assertion that this service is abnormally overcrowded.  Saw a Manly train (at Roma St), Cleveland express, Ferny Grove express, Shorncliffe express, a few Ipswich/Richlands/Petrie trains, and none had the loads near this train on leaving Central.  Unfortunately I didn't see the Ferny Grove all stopper.

Assuming there are no more trains available, I think the solution which would meet the least resistance would be to move the 5:06pm CAB train to 5:12pm, ex-Roma St.  I would still cringe at that train serving Albion and Wooloowin (a Doomben train departs 5:09pm), and I'm not particularly happy about the 17:18 serving Dakabin and Narangba, but that's the way it is likely to stay.

[wbj]

Went down to Central just after 5pm yesterday, and I can support Fares_Fair's assertion that this service is abnormally overcrowded.  Saw a Manly train (at Roma St), Cleveland express, Ferny Grove express, Shorncliffe express, a few Ipswich/Richlands/Petrie trains, and none had the loads near this train on leaving Central.  Unfortunately I didn't see the Ferny Grove all stopper.

A substantial number of people board the Ipswich trains at Roma Street at that time so the trains leaving Roma Street are very overcrowded.  Significantly fewer people board the Caboolture trains at the Valley.

[somebody]

A substantial number of people board the Ipswich trains at Roma Street

Not to mention at Milton.

Still, it is 20mins Central-Darra, and that picks up the busiest and second busiest stations on the line.  There is a chance of "equalisation" at Darra which meets the service standard, but if not, it is likely by Goodna or Redbank.  Perhaps users of these services could tell us?

[Fares_Fair]

The 5:22pm service on Friday 17 June was significantly lighter (but still crowded) than it has been for the last 2 weeks.
I counted just 40 standees (in lieu of the regular 50-70).
'Equalisation' occurred at Dakabin (first time that far south).

Having said that, I received a report (same day) from the 4:30pm ex-Roma St to Sunshine Coast service.
It was so heavily crowded that commuters could not board at Fortitude Valley, according to the SMS I received.
This confirms my assertions that commuters are looking for alternative services home, either 2 trains earlier (the 4:00 and 4:30pm ex-Roma St)
or the 1 train later (5:47pm ex-Roma St) - and getting the same result, heavy overcrowding.

I observed a QR counter on the 3rd carriage of our service.

Regards,
Fares_Fair.

[Stillwater]

Yes the 4.30pm Sunshine Coast service ex Roma Street was chockers on Friday night.  Following the new timetable and increased fares, there is evidence of car pooling and women not wanting to catch trains where the person next to them (inadvertently it must be stressed) is bumping their breasts on crowded services.  Because of their work arrangements, some don't have the option of catching earlier or later trains, particularly with services spaced further apart than trains to other destinations.

[somebody]

The fact remains that something needs to be done about the 17:22 service in particular.

It would not be accepted in CityRail:  All interurbans generally have seating capacity or a few standees, in spite of this being the massively loss making part of CityRail.  Not sure about V/Line - I'm unclear about how they define 100% capacity.  I suppose a Perth comparison would be best done relative to Mandurah?  I can't easily find these stats, but I've never heard that overcrowding is that severe a problem for Transperth.

[ozbob]

The 5:22pm service on Friday 17 June was significantly lighter (but still crowded) than it has been for the last 2 weeks.
I counted just 40 standees (in lieu of the regular 50-70).
'Equalisation' occurred at Dakabin (first time that far south).

Having said that, I received a report (same day) from the 4:30pm ex-Roma St to Sunshine Coast service.
It was so heavily crowded that commuters could not board at Fortitude Valley, according to the SMS I received.
This confirms my assertions that commuters are looking for alternative services home, either 2 trains earlier (the 4:00 and 4:30pm ex-Roma St)
or the 1 train later (5:47pm ex-Roma St) - and getting the same result, heavy overcrowding.

I observed a QR counter on the 3rd carriage of our service.

Regards,
Fares_Fair.

Fridays are traditionally lighter loads generally FF.  I think the real tests will be mid week again.

Yes, I think it is time something was done. Two weeks is enough time to realise the issue.  Now action!

What particularly concerns me is the lack of any real reserve pax capacity.  The rhetoric by TransLink and Government is just bull ...

[ozbob]

Sent to all outlets:

19th June 2011

Re: Action time: SEQ: Major timetable changes phase one, a new beginning

Greetings,

It is obvious that something needs to be done concerning the heavy loads on the 5.22pm service from Central to Nambour.  There is simply no reserve pax capacity and it is not acceptable that interurban services are leaving Central with pax loads close to the design limits of trains, with the commensurate result of long standing (>> 20 minutes) for many pax.

Public transport commuters are despairing with the failure to fix this. Despite commitments by the authorities that the new timetables will be monitored and tweaked where necessary nothing has happened to resolve this issue.  Some citizens have already been forced to abandon public transport and add to the chaos on the roads.

There are a number of obvious solutions?  ( http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=6146.0 ) Why hasn't anything been done?

Best wishes
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org

[ozbob]

From Queensland Parliament Hansard   Adjournment

http://www.parliament.qld.gov.au/view/legislativeAssembly/Hansard/documents/2011.pdf/2011_06_16_DAILY.pdf

TransLink, Train Timetables

Mr POWELL (Glass House—LNP) (11.01 pm): Mr Speaker, I have to tell you that I am
disappointed that I have to stand up again in this House and speak on the plight of north coast rail
commuters. I am equally, if not more, disappointed to say to the Minister for Transport, on behalf of the
north coast rail commuters, 'We told you so. Why didn't you listen?'

Last Monday, 6 June, saw the implementation of the new north coast rail timetable. This is the
timetable that commuters from the coast have been begging and pleading with the minister to revise.
Their major concern with the reduction in the express service from Caboolture to Petrie was that five
more stops were being added to each and every service, adding between 10 and 15 extra minutes to
each trip. The services would undoubtedly become more crowded, too, given that passengers joining or
departing the services between Petrie and Caboolture would naturally opt for these express services
over their usual all-stops or limited-express service.

This is what the commuters were saying to the minister. This is what I have been saying to the
minister ever since the draft timetable was released in November last year. What has the minister been
saying to the commuters? 'We are creating more than 150,000 seats.' Well, not on the north coast line.
The minister has not created 150,000 more seats; she has created the Queensland version of the
Bombay Express. On the 5.20 pm Central to north coast service it is now not uncommon to have 70-odd
passengers seated and more than 70 passengers standing in the aisles in each and every carriage. And
they are standing for nearly an hour until the numbers equalise around Morayfield.

Yes, things may have improved slightly since that first horrid Monday but only because my
commuters—coast commuters—have made the decision to stay at work longer and wait for the next
service. The minister has penalised the longest commuters in the TransLink network, and rather than
acknowledge the negative feedback she has received she calls it 'constructive' and dismisses it. The
timetable needs to be amended. This cannot go on. I hate to say 'we told you so' but we did, and the
minister ignored what we were saying.

And while we are at it, as the shadow minister for transport has already addressed in this House,
the minister has also misled the commuters of Glass House, the coast and across the TransLink
network by saying on 17 March that the first task of the newly appointed Public Transport Advisory
Group, or PTAG, would be to look at six- and 12-month tickets and that the minister had spoken to the
Treasurer and was hoping to make an announcement as part of the budget. Well, the PTAG has been
appointed. There has been no discussion on periodical ticketing. The budget has been announced, and
there has been no consideration given to TransLink's most regular, patient and reliable customers. It is
slap in the face after slap in the face for coast commuters. And this tired, lazy Bligh Labor government
just does not care.

[Fares_Fair]

Hi [Fares_Fair],

[Name removed] and I have given up catching the 5.22pm train we now catch the Gympie North (very packed also) which now makes a very late day for me, I walk in my house approx. 8.05pm each night. Once again we drove today hoping to make it home earlier but sometimes the traffic is crazy.

I thank you for all your hard work but the solution is just not going to happen, the Transport Minister just doesn't care about us poor commuters. 

Take care

Kind Regards
[name removed]

Thank you for the feedback.

Regards,
Fares_Fair.

[Fares_Fair]

Hi [Fares_fair]

There are a lot of people for for (sic) Justice who use the Caboolture/Nambour trains that aren't happy.

[Name removed] and I tried very hard to get TransLink to listen to us when they changed the Bribie Island Buses Timetable recently unfortunately all our hard work fell on deaf ears and we were told that we didn't know what we were talking about etc.  Needless to say after catching the bus for 11 years we are now driving to Caboolture Station.

Anyway hopefully you will get a better response/hearing from TransLink.

Kind Regards
[Name removed]

Thank you for the feedback.

Regards,
Fares_Fair.

[Fares_Fair]

From: do-not-reply
Sent: Friday, 17 June 2011 [time removed]
To: TransLink
Subject: Feedback form - response required

*** This person requires a response ***
Name   [Name removed]
Phone number   [number removed]
Email address   [email removed]

Sent from   Website
Comments   I catch the 5.20pm train from Central to Nambour each week day. Since the new timetable came into affect the train has been hell. Its overcrowded and I quite often I have to stand until past cabooluture, squished in like a sardine can. As if my trip back up to the sunshine coast wasn't already long enough, the train now leaves later, and adds in an additional 10 stations. I describe my daily commute as 'hell' thanks to the new timetable. There was no consideration given to the many sunshine coast who travel long distances on a daily basis. What is going to be done to correct thhis (sic) problem?

AND THE RESPONSE

Dear [Name removed],

Thank you for contacting the TransLink Transit Authority about the overcrowding on the Caboolture/Sunshine Coast services with the introduction of the new timetable.

I regret the concern that you have experienced however, to deliver customers across the entire Ipswich, Rosewood, Caboolture and Sunshine Coast areas more than 150 000 additional weekly seats, as well as improved consistency, reliability and an easier to understand timetable, TransLink was unable to continue to with the previous timetable structure.  Regrettably, some of our customers will experience either a reduction in services, or change in service times during the time they wish to travel however, the new timetable delivers a fairer distribution of services for customers across the whole region. We also understand that there will be a settling period as customers become accustomed to the changes. During this period, we do appreciate your patience.

TransLink and Queensland Rail undertook extensive consultation during November and December 2010 to give the community the opportunity to raise issues relating to the draft rail timetables.

TransLink and Queensland Rail acknowledge the valid concerns the community raised and have reviewed feedback received from 10 information sessions, 300 000 flyers handed out to commuters and 2000 pieces of correspondence received.

As with any changes made to the network, some customers may feel as though they are disadvantaged and although this is regrettable, TransLink has an obligation to provide services that benefit the greater community.

Your feedback has been forwarded to the appropriate department for their consideration in future reviews of the network in light of current service feedback.

Should you require further information, please visit the TTA website at http://www.translink.com.au/ . Alternatively, the TransLink Call Centre is available 24 hours a day, seven days a week on 13 12 30

Kind regards

[Name removed]
TransLink Customer Support

Thank you for the feedback.

Regards,
Fares_Fair.

[somebody]

In other words:
Question: "What is going to be done to correct this problem?"
Answer: "Nothing. Suck it up".

[somebody]

Would terminating the 5:22 at Caboolture and extending the 5:10pm to Nambour be an improvement?

[ozbob]

The 5.22pm is the right time, it is just overloaded from the run in from Richlands.  If it started at Roma St I doubt there would be too many issues.

There are difficulties with train stabling etc. at Nambour (as for most of the network), but to allow for future growth etc.  they should bite the bullet and squeeze in another Nambour service, possibly extend the 5.10pm CAB ex Central to Nambour.

Another option is start the Nambour service from Roma St and start the 5.19pm Petrie from Richlands, simple swap.

It is clear though that something needs to be done.  And if they don't,  I think they should step aside and let others get on with it.

[somebody]

Don't think I agree with that.

If 17:22 is the correct time one solution would be to move the 17:10 train to 17:16, and reduce the number of Petrie-Morayfield passengers on the 17:22 service.

[Stillwater]

Maybe these words may be appropriate:

"When over 80 per cent of the responses to the public consultation phase in November and December 2010 came from travellers on the Sunshine Coast line, Translink didn't believe that this translated into forecast problems, including the issues you have raised.  But at least we did our best to listen.  The matter of the 5.22pm service, as raised by members of the public, was perhaps not fully understood by Translink staff.  Unfortunately, we regret that too.

"When we said that the timetable changes would result in more seats, greater convenience and faster travel times, we regret that you understood these were homogenous outcomes that would also apply to the Sunshine Coast Line.  This was a generalised statement."

Maybe Translink should hire for its call centre staff that character from the comedy show  Little Britain where customers seek helpful service, but are told constantly by the assistant: 'The computer says no.'  The computer says no, FF.  

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_pJ7Wt23Yk&feature=related

[ozbob]

I think this would work.

Start the present 5.19pm Petrie from Richlands but extend it to Caboolture?

The 5.22 Nambour should then start from Roma St.   Presently the 5.22pm has standing loads leaving Roma St from the run in from Richlands.

[Fares_Fair]

I can tell you that pressure is building, especially with TRANSLink's response posted today.

If there is no action on this - heads must roll !

If they want war, we will bring it to them.

Regards,
Fares_Fair.

[ozbob]

It is abysmal for sure FF.   Interurban services are different from suburbans, and it is reasonable to expect not so heavy loads IMHO.

When one looks at the deteriorated station signs (have been that way for years),  the botched infrastructure projects, the mediocre timetables, it is probably time that a new broom went through. 

[BrizCommuter]

I can tell you that pressure is building, especially with TRANSLink's response posted today.

If there is no action on this - heads must roll !

If they want war, we will bring it to them.

Regards,
Fares_Fair.

Whilst the loadings are unacceptable, it should be remembered that Sunshine Coast commuters wanted this train to be moved to a more convenient time. So the overcrowding is to some extent the result of the feedback from Sunshine Coast commuters. It is not rocket science that if the Nambour train was to be moved to a more convenient time, it will be much busier, as Caboolture Line commuters will also want to use the train! Given that this is the busiest part of the pm peak period, you cannot expect a gap in the timetables (increasing overcrowding and service gaps) for other rail users to allow a Sunshine Coast super-express to deliver you home on a train with empty seats at the height of the pm peak.

Also, as there is obvious lack of trains (again not really TransLink or QR's fault) at the moment, you cannot expect an instant additional service.

The only heads that should roll are the Queensland Government's for the lacking rail infrastructure. TransLink and QR have actually put a lot of effort into these new timetables to try and get the optimal balance of line capacity vs journey time.

[ozbob]

It is easy to fix.  I am sure Queensland Rail have modelled a number of solutions ...

[somebody]

I think this would work.

Start the present 5.19pm Petrie from Richlands but extend it to Caboolture?

The 5.22 Nambour should then start from Roma St.   Presently the 5.22pm has standing loads leaving Roma St from the run in from Richlands.

No, that would break the clock face counter peak frequency on the Ipswich line.  It would also make the services even less homogenous than present.

If there is no action on this - heads must roll !

This is almost certain anyway.  The Sunshine Coast timetable is only one of the numerous issues.

Whilst the loadings are unacceptable, it should be remembered that Sunshine Coast commuters wanted this train to be moved to a more convenient time. So the overcrowding is to some extent the result of the feedback from Sunshine Coast commuters. It is not rocket science that if the Nambour train was to be moved to a more convenient time, it will be much busier, as Caboolture Line commuters will also want to use the train! Given that this is the busiest part of the pm peak period, you cannot expect a gap in the timetables (increasing overcrowding and service gaps) for other rail users to allow a Sunshine Coast super-express to deliver you home on a train with empty seats at the height of the pm peak.

Also, as there is obvious lack of trains (again not really TransLink or QR's fault) at the moment, you cannot expect an instant additional service.

The only heads that should roll are the Queensland Government's for the lacking rail infrastructure. TransLink and QR have actually put a lot of effort into these new timetables to try and get the optimal balance of line capacity vs journey time.

Err, no.

There is no issue with moving the 17:10 train to 17:16.  This train cannot return in time for an additional peak run.  I don't know who could possibly have a problem with such a move, other than the users of the service which is being retimed.  You could also add an additional service rather than retime the current service.

Also, I think the notion that there aren't enough trains for the PM peak beggars belief.  This is less intensively served than the AM, so do those additional trains used in the AM peak disappear through the day to return for the next day's AM peak.

[ozbob]

Yes, a number of ways of fixing.

I think the problem might be with the Department of Transport and Main Roads IMHO.

The Minister for Transport should direct TransLink to fix the issue IMHO, the Minister has the authority under the TTA legislation.

[Stillwater]

QR has to do the best with the resources it is allocated and using the infrastructure that the government is prepared to fund.  No-one is suggesting that SC commuters want an all-sit-down express service home, but it is packed.  The 5.22pm is now servicing more stations at the peak part of the day, so people who didn't catch the Nambour train before are doing so for convenience.  It is a bit brutal, but maybe make the 5.22pm express through Caboolture, thus eliminating the Caboolture passengers from the train.  They have other options, whereas the people of the Sunshine Coast don't without a considerable wait.

[somebody]

QR has to do the best with the resources it is allocated and using the infrastructure that the government is prepared to fund.  No-one is suggesting that SC commuters want an all-sit-down express service home, but it is packed.  The 5.22pm is now servicing more stations at the peak part of the day, so people who didn't catch the Nambour train before are doing so for convenience.  It is a bit brutal, but maybe make the 5.22pm express through Caboolture, thus eliminating the Caboolture passengers from the train.  They have other options, whereas the people of the Sunshine Coast don't without a considerable wait.

I would call that suggestion inferior to my suggestion of non stopping Dakabin and Narangba, with the 5:19 Petrie train extending to Narangba.

I don't think QR or TL would do either.

[ozbob]

Twitter

Robert_Dow
@AnnastaciaMP @QueenslandRail The 5.22 Nambour is causing a lot of concern, needs a fix ... --> http://t.co/pojZLB9

[ozbob]

Response:

Twitter

QueenslandRail

@robert_dow @AnnastaciaMP We have people out and about this week monitoring loading and unloading along the journey and examining options.
3 minutes ago

[Arnz]

I seriously doubt that theres little to no spare trains in the afternoon peak.  Surely fleet utilization is around 95% or thereabouts.

Putting in a Caboolture service at 5:16pm would knock about 200+ commuters off the 5:22pm, thus reducing standing loads.  

Though preferably, I'd prefer the 5:16pm to be the Nambour service, thus knocking 300-350+ Elimbah to Nambour commuters off the 5:22pm.  The only issue to moving the Nambour train 6 mins forward to 5:16pm is the positioning of the 6-car IMU + getting the extra crews.