Overcrowding Shocker : never in 12 Years ...

[Stillwater]

FF, we know that the building industry has slumped on the Sunshine Coast and I hear that many of the SC tradies have found work fixing people's flood-affected homes in Brisbane and Ipswich.  Would you say these early-morning train services are carrying tradie types to jobs in Brisbane/Ipswich and would they be adding to the crowding on trains heading home to the coast?

[Arnz]

I would think most of those tradies will be driving down the Bruce Highway and adding to traffic (depending on how much equipment they have to carry).

[Fares_Fair]

Hello SW, I would say no, there are very few tradie types on the 6:14am Nambour (6:42am L'boro) train. I would think that most have to drive or may be leaving earlier than CBD pax. There are a few coming home but not noticeably significant in numbers.Regards, Fares_Fair

[ozbob]

Sunshine Coast Daily --> Workers blast 'sardine tin' train

There are some context errors, 'Jeff Addison, a Sunshine Coast-based advocate for the organisation, said a new service shaped as the likely option."

Jeff Addison is a Sunshine Coast based advocate, I spoke to the Sunshine Coast daily a couple of days ago and said we are working towards a possible solution.  Good to see TransLink have acknowledged the issue.

[Fares_Fair]

Hello ozbob,

Below is exactly what I sent the Sunshine Coast Daily yesterday, it is unchanged - verbatim.

Jeffrey Addison, a Sunshine Coast commuter advocate and member of Rail-Back on Track said;
"It gives me great pleasure to announce that Queensland Rail are currently preparing proposals for a fix to the 5:20pm Nambour Crusher train."
"Various options are being considered by the Chief Operations Officer (COO) of Queensland Rail, Mr Kevin Wright." he said.

In an early morning meeting held on Wednesday 22 June, Robert Dow of Rail–Back on Track, also presented solutions for consideration.
One of Mr Dow's options is an entirely new service to ease the pressure.
Mr Addison agrees that a new service is what is required to alleviate the heavy overcrowding.

Mr Wright said "A new service would cost in the order of $15 million."
Mr Addison said "A new service would hopefully allow room for growth in patronage, with the Sunshine Coast population set to boom by 60% over the next 20 years."

Queensland Rail staff need to work through the proposals, including rostering duties, train crews, rolling-stock and so on and present them to TRANSLink.
Kevin Wright, Chief Operations Officer of QR confirmed "there WILL be a fix to this service"

Mr Addison's response was pure joy,
"I'm absolutely elated that both QR and TRANSLink are working together and will resolve the heavy over-crowding of the 5:20 Nambour service"
"I cannot wait to tell 'my people'" he said.

Mr Addison said "It is proposed to be implemented possibly as soon as the week after next, but we will have to wait and see."
"There is much work for QR to do in assessing all the options that were put on the table." he stated.

Mr Addison, in summing up his thoughts, said "There is a light at the end of the tunnel, and this time it is a train!"

Regards,
Fares_Fair.

[Stillwater]

It is interesting to see the comments to the SC Daily story -- important that QR and Translink get the pulse of the general travelling public, not just RailBOT.  A Mr Jeff Addison was quoted on ABC (Sunshine) Coast radio news this morning.  The crowded train and its potential fix was the lead news item at 7am, also separate interview with Mr Addison after early AM program.

The sleeping elephant in all of this is what happens when more people want to use rail from the SC, because clearly people do despite the fares and the frequency/connectivity issues.  The SC population is growing.  More importantly, however, so is the freight task.  More and more passenger and freight trains are going to come into conflict on those short passing loops up the line.

[Stillwater]

Those posts on the SC Daily site are interesting because of where those people live (Mt Mellum -- halfway to the top of the Blackall Range; Maroochydore, Pelican Waters and Forest Glen - between Nambour and Buderim).  Assuming all travel by train, and that is a fair assumption given their comments, these people would have to drive a car or catch a bus to their nearest Nambour Line station to access a train.  For all, that would require approximately a 15-minute drive and 20-30 minutes in a bus, assuming there was a clean connection to the train.

[Fares_Fair]

Courier-Mail
Thursday 23 June, 2011
by Robyn Ironside, p21.

Extra train considered for northern line.
Headline incorrect according to TRANSLink.

EDIT: Line struck out. I agree with Simon's interpretation below.

[somebody]

The TL spokesman didn't say that they aren't considering an extra service, just that no decision has been made.

[wbj]

In contrast to the 5.22 Nambour train, I caught the 5.10 Caboolture train tonight.  As it left Central it had about 75% seats occupied.  The couple of people standing didn't need to.  I noticed a couple of other Dakabin bound passengers who previously used the 5.22 were on this train.  Absolute luxury in peak period.  Obviously it is too early to accommodate a substantial portion of those city workers on standard hours.

[Arnz]

In contrast to the 5.22 Nambour train, I caught the 5.10 Caboolture train tonight.  As it left Central it had about 75% seats occupied.  The couple of people standing didn't need to.  I noticed a couple of other Dakabin bound passengers who previously used the 5.22 were on this train.  Absolute luxury in peak period.  Obviously it is too early to accommodate a substantial portion of those city workers on standard hours.

Backing up my and other commuter's observations of the 5:10pm service, it's one of the major arguments towards moving the 5:10pm to 5:16pm (6 mins later), with the "extra" train being a Petrie service to remove ("root out") standees off the 5:19pm to Petrie and 5:22pm to Nambour.

[wbj]

Backing up my and other commuter's observations of the 5:10pm service, it's one of the major arguments towards moving the 5:10pm to 5:16pm (6 mins later), with the "extra" train being a Petrie service to remove ("root out") standees off the 5:19pm to Petrie and 5:22pm to Nambour.

The only standees on the 5.22 pm to Nambour who would move to the proposed 5.19 Petrie are those going to Albion-Northgate or Petrie.  There are relatively few of those as there are still significant numbers of standees after Petrie. 

[Arnz]

Backing up my and other commuter's observations of the 5:10pm service, it's one of the major arguments towards moving the 5:10pm to 5:16pm (6 mins later), with the "extra" train being a Petrie service to remove ("root out") standees off the 5:19pm to Petrie and 5:22pm to Nambour.

The only standees on the 5.22 pm to Nambour who would move to the proposed 5.19 Petrie are those going to Albion-Northgate or Petrie.  There are relatively few of those as there are still significant numbers of standees after Petrie.  

The 5:19pm to Petrie is a existing service.  That service is also overcrowded as well as the 5:22pm to Nambour.

The proposed Petrie service is either the 5:13pm (before the retimed 5:16pm to Caboolture) or the 5:25pm (directly after the Nambour service).

The retimed 5:16pm to Caboolture + the proposed Petrie service would open more options to remove standees off the overcrowded 5:19pm Petrie and 5:22pm Nambour services. E.g Kill 2 crows with one stone.

[Fares_Fair]

Thank you Arnz,

The 5:20pm tonight was packed again. 60 standing and 85 seated.
I noticed a counter in the 3rd carriage towards the end of our trip, and asked her to verify our counting and she confirmed it as 'spot on', unquote.
Equalisation occurred at Morayfield at 6:20pm. 58 minutes standing.

In your professional opinion, and considering that the 5:19pm Petrie train is chockers also.
I can see absolutely no way that anything other than a new service would suffice.
Further, I believe that this new service will be virtually at capacity (as these 2 services are equal to 4 train loads of pax anyway) with no room for any growth in patronage.

The room for growth would only include standees from here on in, at the start of a new timetable. That speaks volumes.

Do you agree with my assessment ?
If not, then please feel free to tell me.

Kind regards,
Fares_Fair.

[somebody]

The 5:19pm to Petrie is a existing service.  That service is also overcrowded as well as the 5:22pm to Nambour.

Having a service at 5:16pm would pick up people heading to stations up to Northgate, so would ease the loads on this service also.

[Fares_Fair]

Continued from previous post for data addition purposes only.

Monday 6 June, 2011 - Equalisation at Caboolture - n/a - n/a

Wednesday 8 June, 2011 - Equalisation at Burpengary - n/a - n/a

Monday 13 June, 2011 - QUEENS BIRTHDAY PUBLIC HOLIDAY
Tuesday 14 June, 2011 - Equalisation at Burpengary - 6:14pm - 52 minutes standing
Wednesday 15 June, 2011 - Equalisation at Burpengary - 6:09pm - 47 minutes standing
Thursday 16 June, 2011 - Equalisation at Burpengary - 6:10pm - 48 minutes standing
Friday 17 June, 2011 - Equalisation at Dakabin - n/a - n/a (Reported that 4:30pm train a sardine can)

Monday 20 June, 2011 - Equalisation at Burpengary - 6:16pm - 54 minutes standing
Tuesday 21 June, 2011 - Equalisation at Dakabin - 6:00pm - 38 minutes standing
Wednesday 22 June, 2011 - Equalisation at Morayfield - 6:20pm - 58 minutes standing
Thursday 23 June, 2011 - Equalisation at Caboolture - 6:16pm - 54 minutes standing
Friday 24 June, 2011 - Equalisation at Petrie - 5:57pm - 37 minutes standing (Reported that 4:30pm train a sardine can again, as per last Friday)

Monday 27 June, 2011 - Equalisation at Burpengary - 6:11pm - 49 minutes standing  (Public School Holidays for 2 Weeks begin today)
Tuesday 28 June, 2011 - Equalisation at ................ - ..:......pm - ...... minutes standing


Regards,
Fares_Fair.

EDIT: Equalisations added in advance - up to Friday 24 June, 2011 - Data for same as occurs.
EDIT: Data updated 22.06.11
EDIT: Data updated 26.06.11
EDIT: Data updated 27.06.11

[Arnz]

In your professional opinion, and considering that the 5:19pm Petrie train is chockers also.
I can see absolutely no way that anything other than a new service would suffice.
Further, I believe that this new service will be virtually at capacity (as these 2 services are equal to 4 train loads of pax anyway) with no room for any growth in patronage.

The room for growth would only include standees from here on in, at the start of a new timetable. That speaks volumes.

Do you agree with my assessment ?
If not, then please feel free to tell me.

Kind regards,
Fares_Fair.

Hi FF,

I do agree that the extra service (to Petrie, Caboolture or whichever solution QR decides to take) will likely to be at capacity on the first day of the implementation.  I'm a bit more worried on how QR is going to spread the standees out between services (advertising is definitely required for the extra service and retimed services).

Fortunately there is a 9 min gap between the 5:22pm Nambour and the 5:31pm to Petrie.  Assuming that 3 min head ways are used, the 9 min gap enables 2 extra trains (1 Caboolture and 1 Petrie). 

The question is how long will it be before calls for extra services on the Northern lines, and whether the State Government/TransLink are willing to fund them.

Regards,

[Fares_Fair]

Hello Arnz,

Thank you.
We are all hoping for a good outcome.

As an aside, I received a credible report that the Hon. Annastacia Palaszczuk MP, Minister for Transport and Multicultural Affairs
visited Caboolture Station on Thursday 23 June, 2011, boarded the 5:20pm (Carriage 4) ex-Central service and disembarked 2 stations later at Beerburrum.
If only I'd known ...

I wonder why ?
There are no passenger loading problems north of Caboolture, with 'equalisation' most often occurring at Burpengary or beyond (9 out of 12 times)

Regards,
Fares_Fair.

EDIT: Data Updated

[Stillwater]

This Minister is to be commended for taking a personal interest in this matter.  Remember, she also observed this train from the Central Station end, so saw the level of crowding there.  But getting off at Beerburrum ... maybe she didn't want to venture into the badlands of the single track.   

[somebody]

I wonder why ?

Probably advised to observe the loadings there by Translink.

[Fares_Fair]

anyway, I have a train to crush, er I mean catch ...

Regards,
Fares_Fair.

[Golliwog]

Better than her trying to get on at Central and not being able to do much. By getting on at Caboolture, she would have had a chance to tlak to some of those who really need to use that service, those getting off between CBD and Caboolture have a choice of many other services (such as the one the minister probably caught to get there).

[ozbob]

http://www.scottemerson.com.au/media-releases/

Opposition Statement

LNP throws down gauntlet to Transport Minister

Wednesday, 22 June 2011 11:37

A State Opposition visit to Central Station during peak hour has proved Labor's $26 million train timetable tweak has still not eased worsening congestion and delays.

LNP Shadow Transport Minister Scott Emerson said it had been two weeks since Transport Minister Annastacia Palaszczuk stood on platform 6 at Central Station vowing to fix Labor's disastrous timetable and yet nothing had changed.

"I stood on platform 6 at Central Station yesterday afternoon and saw yet again the frustration of commuters on the 5:22pm train service to Nambour," Mr Emerson said.

"I heard commuters complain of unacceptable overcrowding and unjustified Labor price hikes that have already gone up 20 per cent last year, 15 per cent this year, and are set to increase 15 per cent each year until 2014.

"It is two weeks since I challenged Minister Palaszczuk to actually experience this train journey for herself.　 Yet she still hasn't.

"If Minister Palaszczuk did use rail travel, she would know it is not the 'world class transport system' she claimed it to be.

"The Bligh Government is clearly totally out of touch with south-east Queensland commuters and Labor needs to fix the problem now.

"How long do Queenslanders have to wait for this tired, lazy 20 year old Labor Government to get train travel right?

"I challenge Minister Palaszczuk yet again to catch this train and see for herself that thousands of frustrated commuters are not the ones who are wrong about our rail system.

"Only an LNP Government will save Queenslanders money and deliver more by getting action on the basics and cutting waste," Mr Emerson said.

[Stillwater]

More cheap shot politics, sadly.  It is a well-known tactic in politics, when you know for certain that the government of the day is going to do something constructive, to call on the government to fix a problem.  That way you can pretend that your postering was a catalyst for action.  Thus, a politician will visit a senior citizens' centre the week before a budget is handed down and garner publicity by calling on the government to increase the old age pension.  The politician may even say: "I challenge the Minister to try and survive on the old age pension for a week." before hopping in his/her car for the trip home to the mansion, there to enjoy a steak meal washed down with a good red.

And, so we have Mr Emerson perched on Central railway station, shaking his fist in mock anger at the QR gods above, calling on the transport minister to 'fix the problem'.  Of course QR have said they would and Mr Emerson would have known this when he staged his act for the media.  He may not have known that the Minister has seen the problem for herself, both at Central and at Caboolture.  When QR takes action on the 5.22pm overcrowding, it won't be due in any way to the antics of Mr Emerson.

There is no substantial words in what the shadow Minister is saying, apart from 'elect an LNP government and we will make things better'.  No alternative policy; not even a hint of how the LNP might go about the process of devising one.  Mr Emerson could have taken a punt and selected one of the alternatives put in this forward by Arnz and said something along these lines: 'the LNP believes the best course of action is blah blah and in government we would implement that solution.'

The Labor government has taken the Sunshine Coast for granted, breaking several promises about building infrastructure that would address the woes on the Sunshine Coast Line.  It will not lose any electoral skin, as all seats on the Sunshine Coast are held by the LNP or an Independent.  Now, we have evidence that the LNP leader, Campbell Newman, is also of the view that he can take the Sunshine Coast electorates for granted.  A week after Sunshine Coast MPs declared their No.1 priority was the Sunshine Coast University Hospital, Mr Newman announced that he would raid the government funding for the hospital, thereby jeopardising its start date (already delayed by the government) to ease the cost burden of impending water and electricity costs throughout Queensland.

This was followed by the bizarre spectacle of Andrew Powell, the Member for Glass House, stating in his local press this bit of wonky wisdom: "The (Sunshine Coast) rail network (upgrade) needs to be brought forward, not necessarily funded.'  The reason why the government has shoved off the upgrade to the never-never while still remaining 'fully committed' to funding it is because it can't work out how to pay for the $3 billion cost.  There are other, more pressing projects that need to be funded to bring about network-wide benefits, it could be argued.

The question for Mr Powell and Mr Emerson is how can you 'bring forward' a project without funding it?  Isn't that what this forum has been pointing out is the flawed logic of the Connecting SEQ 2031 document?

Mr Powell wants the illusion of 'bringing forward' the Sunshine Coast Line duplication without taking the hard decisions about the funding.  That's irresponsible.  Worst still, his call shows that he is lobbying within his own party over this issue.  Mr Newman is not listening because he wants to jeopardise the financial deal for the Coast MPs No.1 priority project, the new hospital, knowing that his party's representatives on the Coast have a sufficient voter buffer should a portion of electors switch sides at the next election.  In other words, Mr Newman has counted the Sunshine Coast electorates as being in the bag while he chases seats with much lower margins.  And he is willing to bet the Sunshine Coast University Hospital in pursuit of that goal.  Mr Powell is left mouthing nonsense such as wanting to bring forward a large construction project without thinking about how it would be financed.

The people of the Sunshine Coast also been left wondering about Maroochydore MP, Fiona Simpson's plan last election for light rail, not heavy rail for the CAMCOS corridor.

All of this shows that the LNP is thinking and speaking from the top of the head.  It continues to play the politics and is not prepared to do the hard yards of defining a policy that would indicate it is an alternative government worthy of the people's consideration.  No more cheap tricks please - from both sides of politics.

[BrizCommuter]

Fortunately there is a 9 min gap between the 5:22pm Nambour and the 5:31pm to Petrie.  Assuming that 3 min head ways are used, the 9 min gap enables 2 extra trains (1 Caboolture and 1 Petrie). 

An Ekka loop train needs to run at some point in this gap.

[somebody]

Fortunately there is a 9 min gap between the 5:22pm Nambour and the 5:31pm to Petrie.  Assuming that 3 min head ways are used, the 9 min gap enables 2 extra trains (1 Caboolture and 1 Petrie). 

An Ekka loop train needs to run at some point in this gap.

Huh??  Do you mean there needs to be a gap to allow Ekka trains to run at that time of year?

[ozbob]

Depends on the final timings, Ekka services can be sloted as paths available.

Present arrivals on platform 6 Central are:

4.50 x 4.56  x 5.02 5.05 5.08 x x 5.17 5.20 x x 5.29 5.32 5.35 x x x 5.47 x x x 5.59 6.02 x x x x 6.17 pm  departures +2 minutes

x = slots for extras and Ekka services.  

(Getting the idea casual readers why Cross River Rail is needed? ... )

[somebody]

I could live with bus shuttles to Ekka.  It's only one week per year.  Is it school holidays?  If so, there should be spare buses from school runs.

[SurfRail]

I could live with bus shuttles to Ekka.  It's only one week per year.  Is it school holidays?  If so, there should be spare buses from school runs.

It's a rather brute force way of side-stepping the Ekka surcharge as well. 

[ozbob]

The tight period is from 5 to 5.30pm, and one can easily be fitted.  Don't forget there a quite a few direct services to the Ekka as well but they don't intefere with the peaks particularly, don't think the punters who chose to go by rail would be too impressed, either would RNA and other exhibitors.

Time to start focussing on the shoulders and off peaks.  I am starting to get very concerned with the constant failure to actually do anything really positive with fare structures or new intiatives.  They are still stuck in the failing paradigm.

[somebody]

The tight period is from 5 to 5.30pm, and one can easily be fitted.  Don't forget there a quite a few direct services to the Ekka as well but they don't intefere with the peaks particularly, don't think the punters who chose to go by rail would be too impressed, either would RNA and other exhibitors.

Time to start focussing on the shoulders and off peaks.  I am starting to get very concerned with the constant failure to actually do anything really positive with fare structures or new intiatives.  They are still stuck in the failing paradigm.

Really?  But wouldn't you agree that fares are the least of the failings of the current PT system?

Direct services to Ekka may not be possible if all the gaps in the IPS/CAB timetable are filled in such that both lines have a 3 minute frequency in peaks.

[Fares_Fair]

I could live with bus shuttles to Ekka.  It's only one week per year.  Is it school holidays?  If so, there should be spare buses from school runs.

It isn't school holidays, but it is a public holiday for Brisbane (and some coastal schools also) so your argument would still stand.

Regards,
Fares_Fair.

[somebody]

I could live with bus shuttles to Ekka.  It's only one week per year.  Is it school holidays?  If so, there should be spare buses from school runs.

It isn't school holidays, but it is a public holiday for Brisbane (and some coastal schools also) so your argument would still stand.

Regards,
Fares_Fair.

Ok, so you could only run the Ekka loop services on Ekka day and off peak on other days, once all the gaps in the timetable are filled in.

[O_128]

Ekka line will have to be closed during CRR construction anyway wont it. Unless they build the bowen hills to ekka station part first and run it as a shuttle.

[BrizCommuter]

Ekka line will have to be closed during CRR construction anyway wont it. Unless they build the bowen hills to ekka station part first and run it as a shuttle.

CRR will not serve Bowen Hills.

[mufreight]

Ekka line will have to be closed during CRR construction anyway wont it. Unless they build the bowen hills to ekka station part first and run it as a shuttle.

CRR will not serve Bowen Hills.

Ekka line will have to be closed during CRR construction anyway wont it. Unless they build the bowen hills to ekka station part first and run it as a shuttle.

The Exhibition loop will have to remain open while the CRR is constructed if only for the operation of freight services.
In fact with the proposed arangemrnt of the northern entrances to the CRR there is little conflict with the exhibition loop which it is understood will remain anyway.

[O_128]

thats dissapointing theres nor bowen hills connection though understandable I guess.

[somebody]

thats dissapointing theres nor bowen hills connection though understandable I guess.

It won't be very pretty for connections between CRR trains and the Ferny Grove line.

[SurfRail]

thats dissapointing theres nor bowen hills connection though understandable I guess.

It won't be very pretty for connections between CRR trains and the Ferny Grove line.

With a 15 minute or better basic frequency on both services, changing at Roma Street wouldn't be that much of a bother.

[somebody]

With a 15 minute or better basic frequency on both services, changing at Roma Street wouldn't be that much of a bother.

Does still mean doubling back though.  Perhaps not the end of the world.