3 Jun 2011: SEQ: Public transport timetable improvements welcome!

[ozbob]

Media release 3 June 2011

SEQ:  Public transport timetable improvements welcome!

RAIL Back On Track (http://backontrack.org) a web based community support group for rail and public transport and an advocate for public transport commuters has said that the implementation for the new train timetables for the Sunshine Coast, Caboolture, Ipswich, Rosewood and Richlands lines from the 6th June is a welcome development (1).

Robert Dow, Spokesman for RAIL Back On Track said:

"This is the first major re-structure of the train timetable for around fifteen years.  It is the beginning of a complete rewrite of timetables for the entire network.  Overall there is an increase in capacity, more peak services and some off peak service increases, and simplification of peak express stopping patterns."

"Some journey times have been marginally increased, but this is offset by the potential of improved reliability and more balanced passenger loading."

"With major timetable changes it is not possible to keep everyone happy.  Some suburban stations do have a slight reduction in peak frequency, and for the limited Tennyson rail services these have been replaced completely by bus (2). In a post Cross River Rail environment the restoration of passenger rail services to and through Tennyson we believe will occur.

"In the second phase of the timetable changes more needs to be done however for extending hours of operation of services, more counter peak services, and consideration for more services to broaden the peak times."

"One of the most significant gains is essentially around the clock 15 minute out of peak frequency between Darra and Northgate on the Western line and Northern Lines, and through services to and from Richlands and the CBD and connecting stations.  The additional daily rail service through to Gympie North is also a very welcome improvement (3)."

"Many bus routes have had timetable changes to keep connections with rail, and some have had major changes in terms of route structure.  Staff from TransLink and Queensland Rail have been engaging with the community and informing them of the changes.  All changes are documented on the TransLink web site (1). We suggest that intending passengers check out the new timetables which are available at railway stations and on the web."

"It is important that the momentum now established with this first round of timetable changes is maintained and carried on to all lines of the network.  Frequency and reliability of services are the most important determinants in driving patronage uptake."

"Well done TransLink, Queensland Rail and all the bus operators. This is a major change, and we look forward to Monday!"

References:

1. http://translink.com.au/travel-information/service-updates/change-is-coming

2. http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=6088.0

3. http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=5795.0

Contact:

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org

[ozbob]

Discussion thread --> http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=5739.0

[DayboroStation]

Today is the last day that passengers travelling from Lawnton-Toombul to/from the city will be able to catch an express service. This will add up to 6 minutes (AM peak) and 11 minutes (PM peak) to travel time from Monday (or over 1 hour per week extra in travel time in some instances). It is a sad day for many Caboolture line passengers.

[Zoiks]

Sadly not everyone can get express from their station

[SurfRail]

Today is the last day that passengers travelling from Lawnton-Toombul to/from the city will be able to catch an express service. This will add up to 6 minutes (AM peak) and 11 minutes (PM peak) to travel time from Monday (or over 1 hour per week extra in travel time in some instances). It is a sad day for many Caboolture line passengers.

Based on what I have seen, it probably won't add that much.  Many trains on the Ippy to Cab are unofficially running just over 3 minutes off scheduled times on a more-or-less permanent basis - still within the benchmark, but not exactly something to be tolerated.  The new timetable should be a lot more realistic than the one we are farewelling today.

[colinw]

Many Beenleigh Line travellers would welcome removal of express services because it would reduce their travel time by making a train servicing their station arrive up to 10 minutes earlier.  A boost in frequency is as good or better than an express run.

I want an express to my station is a sickness that must be cured.  If you live beyond Ipswich, Caboolture or Beenleigh, then a significant express run should be expected.  If you live closer than these boundaries then what you really want is a more frequent service to cut down the waiting time.

[somebody]

Many Beenleigh Line travellers would welcome removal of express services because it would reduce their travel time by making a train servicing their station arrive up to 10 minutes earlier.  A boost in frequency is as good or better than an express run.

I want an express to my station is a sickness that must be cured.  If you live beyond Ipswich, Caboolture or Beenleigh, then a significant express run should be expected.  If you live closer than these boundaries then what you really want is a more frequent service to cut down the waiting time.

I disagree.

All stopping to Northgate for the Caboolture/Petrie trains is a missed opportunity.  All peak trains beyond Kuraby, Redbank, Virginia and beyond and arguably beyond Manly should be express.  Otherwise you need more rollingstock for the service, which also becomes less attractive.

[colinw]

Maybe for the Caboolture line, but on the Beenleigh line expresses save 6 minutes at best, but result in a 22 minute gap in peak.   I just do not see the point of the 3 expresses that do run, all they result in is crappy peak frequency at a bunch of stations inbound from Sunnybank.

Guess we have to disagree.

[SurfRail]

All stopping to Northgate for the Caboolture/Petrie trains is a missed opportunity.  All peak trains beyond Kuraby, Redbank, Virginia and beyond and arguably beyond Manly should be express.  Otherwise you need more rollingstock for the service, which also becomes less attractive.

Can you really have meaningful expresses on the Cleveland line?  The current express patterns which offer virtually no time advantage over the next all stations are undoubtedly even more problematic because of the current ad hoc timetable, but how do you get around the inherent problems in there only being 2 tracks?  Perth manages, but with much shorter routes and complicated stopping patterns (one thing about their network I am not too keen on).

[#Metro]

As a rule of thumb, an express must save at least 10 minutes to be worth bothering.
If it doesn't do that, scrap it.

You know, some people love express from their station, well you know what, everyone else including me is stuck at the platform watching the train whizz past and then have to wait for the next one because 'that train stops at all stations except the one I want'.

I would support 2 tier operation on Cleveland line but the problem there is the single track section and requirement for precision cross.

[#Metro]

Many Beenleigh Line travellers would welcome removal of express services because it would reduce their travel time by making a train servicing their station arrive up to 10 minutes earlier.  A boost in frequency is as good or better than an express run.

I want an express to my station is a sickness that must be cured.  If you live beyond Ipswich, Caboolture or Beenleigh, then a significant express run should be expected.  If you live closer than these boundaries then what you really want is a more frequent service to cut down the waiting time.

This is a common theme. If you give everyone what they want, you end up serving crud to everyone.

I want my own seat, even in peak hour ---> Lower capacity train and more people left on the platform waiting for next service

I want a train station outside my house ---> rotten apple frequency everywhere due to line branching effects

I want express to my station ---> eat up all the train paths and dramatically reduce peak hour capacity

I want a direct trip ---> low frequency rotten apples everywhere, number of destinations able to be reached is exponentially lower than with a transfer

I want my train on time ---> Huge amounts of fat are dolloped into the timetable so the train crawls along and can never be late

I want the train to be within walking distance ---> extremely close stop spacing results in a train that crawls along barely faster than the congested traffic it is trying to beat

Be careful what you wish for!

[somebody]

Maybe for the Caboolture line, but on the Beenleigh line expresses save 6 minutes at best, but result in a 22 minute gap in peak.   I just do not see the point of the 3 expresses that do run, all they result in is crappy peak frequency at a bunch of stations inbound from Sunnybank.

Every station between Caboolture, Shorncliffe, Doomben, Ferny Grove, Ipswich, Cleveland and Varsity Lakes should have a 15 minute peak frequency (except Tennyson, I guess).

The current timetable for the outbound Beenleigh expresses which save only 2-3 minutes for missing 7 stations is rather disgraceful.  Inbound is only slightly better saving 4 minutes.

However, with 8tph applying, one would think that the 15 minute frequency service goal is easily achievable.

All stopping to Northgate for the Caboolture/Petrie trains is a missed opportunity.  All peak trains beyond Kuraby, Redbank, Virginia and beyond and arguably beyond Manly should be express.  Otherwise you need more rollingstock for the service, which also becomes less attractive.

Can you really have meaningful expresses on the Cleveland line?  The current express patterns which offer virtually no time advantage over the next all stations are undoubtedly even more problematic because of the current ad hoc timetable, but how do you get around the inherent problems in there only being 2 tracks?  Perth manages, but with much shorter routes and complicated stopping patterns (one thing about their network I am not too keen on).

That can be done quite easily:

Park Rd	:00	:12	:15	:27
pattern	all stops	express	all stops	express
Manly	:28	:31	:43	:46
Proceeds to	terminates	Cleveland	terminates	Cleveland

I haven't resolved the counter peak trains here, but I am sure it is possible.  It may require extending some of the Manly terminators to Lota

There are 11 stations between Manly and Park Rd (exclusive), so saving 9 minutes is achievable.  May still be achievable adding one or two stops.

[SurfRail]

Maybe for the Caboolture line, but on the Beenleigh line expresses save 6 minutes at best, but result in a 22 minute gap in peak.   I just do not see the point of the 3 expresses that do run, all they result in is crappy peak frequency at a bunch of stations inbound from Sunnybank.

Every station between Caboolture, Shorncliffe, Doomben, Ferny Grove, Ipswich, Cleveland and Varsity Lakes should have a 15 minute peak frequency (except Tennyson, I guess).

The current timetable for the outbound Beenleigh expresses which save only 2-3 minutes for missing 7 stations is rather disgraceful.  Inbound is only slightly better saving 4 minutes.

However, with 8tph applying, one would think that the 15 minute frequency service goal is easily achievable.

All stopping to Northgate for the Caboolture/Petrie trains is a missed opportunity.  All peak trains beyond Kuraby, Redbank, Virginia and beyond and arguably beyond Manly should be express.  Otherwise you need more rollingstock for the service, which also becomes less attractive.

Can you really have meaningful expresses on the Cleveland line?  The current express patterns which offer virtually no time advantage over the next all stations are undoubtedly even more problematic because of the current ad hoc timetable, but how do you get around the inherent problems in there only being 2 tracks?  Perth manages, but with much shorter routes and complicated stopping patterns (one thing about their network I am not too keen on).

That can be done quite easily:

Park Rd	:00	:03	:15	:18
pattern	all stops	express	all stops	express
Manly	:28	:31	:43	:46
Proceeds to	terminates	Cleveland	terminates	Cleveland

I haven't resolved the counter peak trains here, but I am sure it is possible.  It may require extending some of the Manly terminators to Lota

There are 11 stations between Manly and Park Rd (exclusive), so saving 9 minutes is achievable.  May still be achievable adding one or two stops.

I'd rather we aim for 15 min frequency all to Cleveland personally if you can only have 2 half-hourly patterns. 

[somebody]

I'd rather we aim for 15 min frequency all to Cleveland personally if you can only have 2 half-hourly patterns. 

No, I was proposing a 15 minute frequency express to Cleveland. I did get the times wrong.  Doh!  Corrected my post.

[O_128]

I'd rather we aim for 15 min frequency all to Cleveland personally if you can only have 2 half-hourly patterns. 

No, I was proposing a 15 minute frequency express to Cleveland. I did get the times wrong.  Doh!  Corrected my post.

If any line needs an off peak express its Cleveland. Once the fat is added into the new timetable 50min express to the city is almost competitive with the car. though manly really needs a third platform

[somebody]

though manly really needs a third platform

Urgh.

Lota has an extra platform which is virtually unused.  When was the last time two trains were at Lota?

[SurfRail]

I'd rather we aim for 15 min frequency all to Cleveland personally if you can only have 2 half-hourly patterns. 

No, I was proposing a 15 minute frequency express to Cleveland. I did get the times wrong.  Doh!  Corrected my post.

If it's doable, no objections from me!