Express peak pattern on the Ipswich line

[ozbob]

From the 6th June the express pattern during peaks for the Ipswich line will be Darra <-> Indooroopilly <-> Milton <-> Roma St etc.

There continues to be a lot of feedback concerning the bypass of Toowong.

I would be interested in what others here think about this.  Stop at Toowong or not?

Thanks ..

[somebody]

I don't have much to argue with Translink's assertion that the majority who are going to UQ St Lucia are from Darra - in.  UQ do have a campus in Ipswich, which would be closer for a number.

Besides, the bus interchange at Indooroopilly is a similar speed (probably faster, as it's more direct), so I tend to think that people will come around.

[#Metro]

I think it should be given a chance above anything else.
See how it goes.

Steam ironing of the 427/428 is required

[Cam]

I voted to bypass Toowong provided that the bus services between Indooroopilly Station & UQ are frequent i.e. no more than 5 minutes between services in peak periods. A dedicated shuttle every 5 minutes would provide a better service rather than relying on services from Kenmore etc that will be delayed due to traffic. This may entice those on the Richlands services to alight at Indooroopilly rather than Toowong.

It is indeed a shame that a decent bus interchange wasn't built at Indooroopilly Station as part of the upgrade a couple of years ago.

I think that Toowong should be included in a second express pattern when introduced in the future.

[somebody]

I think that Toowong should be included in a second express pattern when introduced in the future.

Why would you think that this will happen?

[#Metro]

I would like to see the Beenleigh line split into two tiers, similar to the Ips. Line.

[paulg]

I think bypassing Toowong is a good move. It is well served by other services, and UQ students now have a higher frequency alternative link from Indooroopilly Station. I can't believe they allow 50 minutes for the express services Central-Ipswich, there must be some fat to trim there. There need to be express patterns Darra-Ipswich to bring this journey time down, surely it could be done with the existing dual track? Ipswich, Caboolture and Beenleigh should be serviced by genuine expresses around the clock (I suppose this is the intention of the long term vision they came up with last year).

Cheers

[somebody]

I would like to see the Beenleigh line split into two tiers, similar to the Ips. Line.

I agree.  And Cleveland.

[Cam]

I think that Toowong should be included in a second express pattern when introduced in the future.

Why would you think that this will happen?

I think that when terminating services at Redbank are introduced, it would be an appropriate time to introduce a second express pattern.

1) Express Roma St - Darra - Redbank - all to Rosewood. This is the same express pattern of stopping as the popular 5.21pm ex Central in the current timetable & would provide a 45 minute travel time between Central & Ipswich.

2) Roma St - Milton - Toowong - Indooroopilly - Darra - Goodna - Redbank - all to Ipswich.

Wacol & Gailes to be covered by the all stations services to Redbank. The bulk of Wacol passengers drive there and could drive to Goodna or Darra if they wanted a more frequent peak service including express services.

Oxley & Corinda to be covered by both the Richlands & Redbank services.

[Arnz]

Beenleigh to some extent already has full-time express services (Gold Coast).  I would think stopping GC trains all stations to Yeerongpilly (express Yeerongpilly to Beenleigh stopping Loganlea) may maximise the inner city capacity.  Caboolture to a lesser extent has express services (Nambour) during off-peak and weekends.

Peak hour, should the Beenleigh and GC trains swap tracks? (Peak Beenleigh taking the DG, whilst the GC and Kuraby trains stops all stations to Yeerongpilly on the mains).  It may help spread out the loads across the South Coast Line runs.

[mufreight]

A group of Uni students including neighbours (3) here in the Ipswich region have collectively brought a mini bus that has seen better days and have voted with their collective feet all 19 of them and now using this doubtful in safety terms bus have given public transport a decided flick.
Their key reason being that to continue to use public transport would require a further change.  The location of the bus stop at Indoorpilly is inconvenient and lacks shelter and they feel that the use of their own bus will not only be more convenient but less costly.  Public transport remains as an alternative if their lectures do not fit in with the times that suit the majority of the students in their group.
How many more students or workers at Toowong will also cease to use PT because of this additional inconvenience?

[petey3801]

A group of Uni students including neighbours (3) here in the Ipswich region have collectively brought a mini bus that has seen better days and have voted with their collective feet all 19 of them and now using this doubtful in safety terms bus have given public transport a decided flick.
Their key reason being that to continue to use public transport would require a further change.  The location of the bus stop at Indoorpilly is inconvenient and lacks shelter and they feel that the use of their own bus will not only be more convenient but less costly.  Public transport remains as an alternative if their lectures do not fit in with the times that suit the majority of the students in their group.
How many more students or workers at Toowong will also cease to use PT because of this additional inconvenience?

Didums. Change trains. It's not that hard, especially when in the vast majority of cases it will be a 5-min change time at Indooroopilly. Not a massive delay when you have the move platforms anyway.

[somebody]

Didums. Change trains. It's not that hard, especially when in the vast majority of cases it will be a 5-min change time at Indooroopilly. Not a massive delay when you have the move platforms anyway.

That's what I think also.  I'd have to think that there are other issues involved here.  Perhaps there is a bus required at the Ipswich end.

[Fares_Fair]

A group of Uni students including neighbours (3) here in the Ipswich region have collectively brought a mini bus that has seen better days and have voted with their collective feet all 19 of them and now using this doubtful in safety terms bus have given public transport a decided flick.
Their key reason being that to continue to use public transport would require a further change.  The location of the bus stop at Indoorpilly is inconvenient and lacks shelter and they feel that the use of their own bus will not only be more convenient but less costly.  Public transport remains as an alternative if their lectures do not fit in with the times that suit the majority of the students in their group.
How many more students or workers at Toowong will also cease to use PT because of this additional inconvenience?

Apparently, it's a growing trend.

See ------> http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=6089.msg57986#new

Regards,
Fares_Fair.

[SurfRail]

A group of Uni students including neighbours (3) here in the Ipswich region have collectively brought a mini bus that has seen better days and have voted with their collective feet all 19 of them and now using this doubtful in safety terms bus have given public transport a decided flick.
Their key reason being that to continue to use public transport would require a further change.  The location of the bus stop at Indoorpilly is inconvenient and lacks shelter and they feel that the use of their own bus will not only be more convenient but less costly.  Public transport remains as an alternative if their lectures do not fit in with the times that suit the majority of the students in their group.
How many more students or workers at Toowong will also cease to use PT because of this additional inconvenience?

If 19 of them have got their own minibus together, that sounds fantastic.  Still about 12 or more times as efficient as a car - and if everybody did this, congestion would dry up.  Plus there is room for another 19 seats on the public network.

Bit of a pity the network can't accomodate their needs, but I doubt they would be terribly concerned.

[petey3801]

The other thing is, if they're stupid enough to drive into St Lucia in the middle of peak hour just to avoid a change of trains at Indro (from which they could easily get the bus to UQ anyway, I did it for a couple years myself instead of going to Toowong!), go for it! Remember, outside of the peak periods, there are no express services! Personally, I find catching the bus from Indooroopilly much more convenient than going to Toowong anyway!

[ozbob]

The folks who seem to be particularly upset are commuters who work at Toowong coming in beyond Darra.  UQ students Indro is ok.

Anyway, rather than change at Darra I would be more inclined to change at Indooroopilly routinely if I was going to Toowong. Simply if the express is running a little late might pick up the sub train between Darra and Indroo.  Travel at the subway end.

[petey3801]

The folks who seem to be particularly upset are commuters who work at Toowong coming in beyond Darra.  UQ students Indro is ok.

Anyway, rather than change at Darra I would be more inclined to change at Indooroopilly routinely if I was going to Toowong. Simply if the express is running a little late might pick up the sub train between Darra and Indroo.  Travel at the subway end.

Indooroopilly also has a shorter connection time (5-mins as opposed to approx. 8 mins at Darra), so Indro would be my preferred change trains point!

[#Metro]

Wow, that bus-rail interchange would R E A L L Y be helpful had it been built. Doh!!!

[mufreight]

For some of the students they were using bus to reach the station at Ipswich and because of the pathetic train frequency they had a wait of up to 18 minutes there add another 10 minutes or so with the train change times then more waiting time for the bus so their travel time is extended by something like 30 minutes sitting around going nowhere and paying through the nose for the privelige.
They have cut the cost of their travel to about a third, have a more convenient and quicker means of transport yet Petey you think they are stupid, might I respectfully suggest that they are far smarter than some, particularly as what they are saving on fares stretches their student allowance.
The timetable change that removed what was for them convenient connection at Toowong and inflicted a further change on them or the alternative of the inconvenient change and lack of shelter at Indooroopilly was the straw that broke the camels back.
Making public transport inconvenient for commuters neither results in passengers utilising services nor enhances the chances of them supporting government come the next election.

[petey3801]

For some of the students they were using bus to reach the station at Ipswich and because of the pathetic train frequency they had a wait of up to 18 minutes there add another 10 minutes or so with the train change times then more waiting time for the bus so their travel time is extended by something like 30 minutes sitting around going nowhere and paying through the nose for the privelige.
They have cut the cost of their travel to about a third, have a more convenient and quicker means of transport yet Petey you think they are stupid, might I respectfully suggest that they are far smarter than some, particularly as what they are saving on fares stretches their student allowance.
The timetable change that removed what was for them convenient connection at Toowong and inflicted a further change on them or the alternative of the inconvenient change and lack of shelter at Indooroopilly was the straw that broke the camels back.
Making public transport inconvenient for commuters neither results in passengers utilising services nor enhances the chances of them supporting government come the next election.

I don't know where you pulled the 18-minute wait at Ipswich station in peak from. Between 0615 and 0739 (the duration of the express services), the longest wait is 12 minutes with the majoirty being 6-minute frequency. The longest wait at Indooroopilly after changing from the Express is 11 minutes, and that is only in the edges of the peak (morning, that is.). Like I said, they can quite easily catch the bus from Indooroopilly, it is a shorter walk from the station to the bus stop than at Toowong and the buses run quite frequently in the peak period. If they want to sit on the Ipswich motorway in a traffic jam for longer than the train journey itself, then yes, I do consider them to be idiots.

While yes, the off-peak frequency is sub-standard, we are not talking about off-peak. We are talking about peak period.

[david]

I have been a very big advocate for stopping at Toowong. The area is an important business district. Increasing travel times for those who work in the area would create a lot of disruption.

As for UQ students, they can just catch the bus from Indro. Translink hasn't increased the 427/428/432 for no reason. But I do agree with TT. My word do those routes need steam ironing.

I say, let's wait to see how these new express trains fare in terms of timings and passenger loads. If they are constantly running into Milton early and there are no standees, then QR should seriously look into stopping them at Toowong.

[Gazza]

The thing is, Toowong isn't just important for UQ, it's a good link into the BUZ and ferry network too..

[Emmie]

I wonder where those students plan to park their bus, once they reach UQ campus??

[ozbob]

This is a what if ..

With respect to the new timetable from 6 June, would adding a stop in at Toowong to the express pattern cause a re-write?

[mufreight]

I don't know where you pulled the 18-minute wait at Ipswich station in peak from. Between 0615 and 0739 (the duration of the express services), the longest wait is 12 minutes with the majoirty being 6-minute frequency. The longest wait at Indooroopilly after changing from the Express is 11 minutes, and that is only in the edges of the peak (morning, that is.). Like I said, they can quite easily catch the bus from Indooroopilly, it is a shorter walk from the station to the bus stop than at Toowong and the buses run quite frequently in the peak period. If they want to sit on the Ipswich motorway in a traffic jam for longer than the train journey itself, then yes, I do consider them to be idiots.
While yes, the off-peak frequency is sub-standard, we are not talking about off-peak. We are talking about peak period.

Unfortunately these passengers do not travel on the rail section of their journey in time to use the 07.39 and the gap between the arrival of their bus and the departure of the train that they will now have to catch to make their connections to the Uni is actualy 19 minutes and in the case of one 21 minutes, time to get out of the theretocial ivory tower and face the reality of real life of those who use the system either by necessicity or for their convenience.
The axing of services via Tennyson being another example, the removal of Tennyson station itself from the timetable is no loss with few passengers using that station but the loss of the connecting services is a loss to both the Ipswich and Beenleigh lines that the alternative bus services will not be able to cope with without the addition of perhaps an additional 8 buses to cover each of the three morning services and two of the afternoon services as a less convenient slower service for commuters who currently use these services either by the alternative bus service or because the commuters will have to go the long way round via Roma Street increasing the loadings on the armpit sniffer services on the Ipswich line between Roma Street and Corinda.

[somebody]

Unfortunately these passengers do not travel on the rail section of their journey in time to use the 07.39

Which makes the non stopping at Toowong a red herring here doesn't it?

[petey3801]

I don't know where you pulled the 18-minute wait at Ipswich station in peak from. Between 0615 and 0739 (the duration of the express services), the longest wait is 12 minutes with the majoirty being 6-minute frequency. The longest wait at Indooroopilly after changing from the Express is 11 minutes, and that is only in the edges of the peak (morning, that is.). Like I said, they can quite easily catch the bus from Indooroopilly, it is a shorter walk from the station to the bus stop than at Toowong and the buses run quite frequently in the peak period. If they want to sit on the Ipswich motorway in a traffic jam for longer than the train journey itself, then yes, I do consider them to be idiots.
While yes, the off-peak frequency is sub-standard, we are not talking about off-peak. We are talking about peak period.

Unfortunately these passengers do not travel on the rail section of their journey in time to use the 07.39 and the gap between the arrival of their bus and the departure of the train that they will now have to catch to make their connections to the Uni is actualy 19 minutes and in the case of one 21 minutes, time to get out of the theretocial ivory tower and face the reality of real life of those who use the system either by necessicity or for their convenience.

Well what in God's name are you whinging about? After 7:39, the trains stop ALL STATIONS, so there is no issue with missing Toowong!

The other point... If you change trains at Indooroopilly for the all-stopper during the main part of peak (ie: 5-min wait), you lose a grand total of 1 MINUTE compared to if the express was running all stations (all stopper departs Darra 1-minute behind the express).

Edit: added a bit

[somebody]

Once you say that Toowong workers deserve a stop, then where does it stop?  Why doesn't Auchenflower have a stop for the Wesley Hospital?  Why doesn't Taringa have a stop for Data #3 and Tech One?  I'd be reaching a bit to find a reason to stop at Chelmer & Graceville.

[ozbob]

Old timetable

7.40 Darra:  Oxley 7.43,  Corinda 7.47, Indooroopilly 7.52, Toowong 7.56, Roma St 8.03.

New Timetable

7.39 Darra:  Indooroopilly 7.49,  Milton 7.54,  Roma St 7.57.

New express is timed 8 minutes Indooroopilly to Roma St with one stop.

Old express is timed 11 minutes Indooroopilly to Roma St with one stop

Therefore conclude probably will impact if stop added at Toowong.

[ozbob]

Once you say that Toowong workers deserve a stop, then where does it stop?  Why doesn't Auchenflower have a stop for the Wesley Hospital?  Why doesn't Taringa have a stop for Data #3 and Tech One?  I'd be reaching a bit to find a reason to stop at Chelmer & Graceville.

What I really want is the 'Goodna Galloper'.  This visionary service (and must have EMU 01 or at a pinch EMU04 in the consist) will run express Goodna to Tennyson, where there will be a short break to stretch the legs, but make sure you travel in the last 3 cars if you plan to detrain at Tennyson, and then suitably refreshed the train will run express to Roma St platform 3.  It is too far to walk from platform 9.

[justanotheruser]

For some of the students they were using bus to reach the station at Ipswich and because of the pathetic train frequency they had a wait of up to 18 minutes there add another 10 minutes or so with the train change times then more waiting time for the bus so their travel time is extended by something like 30 minutes sitting around going nowhere and paying through the nose for the privelige.
They have cut the cost of their travel to about a third, have a more convenient and quicker means of transport yet Petey you think they are stupid, might I respectfully suggest that they are far smarter than some, particularly as what they are saving on fares stretches their student allowance.
The timetable change that removed what was for them convenient connection at Toowong and inflicted a further change on them or the alternative of the inconvenient change and lack of shelter at Indooroopilly was the straw that broke the camels back.
Making public transport inconvenient for commuters neither results in passengers utilising services nor enhances the chances of them supporting government come the next election.

It has always been crappy if travelling before 6am. That is nothing new.


Edit to add:  I have now seen your post which makes it clear the connection problem is between bus arriving at ipswich station and the train departing not gaps between trains like we all thought you meant.

[justanotheruser]

i voted for other.  I still see no problem at all with having two stopping patterns. Have all express stop at indro and alternate between milton and toowong. This would inconvience me as I use milton but I see no problem with it. I don't consider the argument that it is difficult to remember two stopping patterns for an express to be valid. Most people catch the same train so it would not matter and those few that don't can check the timetable.

[ozbob]

There was another long letter to the editor Queensland Times this morning, querying the basis of the Toowong express bypass.  The writer was clearly not aware of the improved bus arrangements between Indro and UQ, however it is another sign of the concern of many.  I really am disappointed that a more direct approach has not been followed in detailing why certain things are being done. 

Full rationale of express patterns would help to counter the angst which will be generated (and has been).

[O_128]

There was another long letter to the editor Queensland Times this morning, querying the basis of the Toowong express bypass.  The writer was clearly not aware of the improved bus arrangements between Indro and UQ, however it is another sign of the concern of many.  I really am disappointed that a more direct approach has not been followed in detailing why certain things are being done. 

Full rationale of express patterns would help to counter the angst which will be generated (and has been).

Im starting to get the rationale behind skipping toowong. If anyones caught a peak hour 412 to UQ from toowong it can take upto half an hour do to traffic. Going to back way will save time

[mufreight]

There was another long letter to the editor Queensland Times this morning, querying the basis of the Toowong express bypass.  The writer was clearly not aware of the improved bus arrangements between Indro and UQ, however it is another sign of the concern of many.  I really am disappointed that a more direct approach has not been followed in detailing why certain things are being done. 

Full rationale of express patterns would help to counter the angst which will be generated (and has been).

Contact has been made with the person who wrote the letter to the QT, the point was raised that the nearest stop to the Indoorpilly station is inconvenient in its location and has no shelter and the other point raised which is equaly valid is the mumbers of workers (not uni students) who use Toowong and the numbers who make use of the shopping facilities there either to or from work/Uni and the more convenient user friendly facilities for commuters at Toowong

[#Metro]

Contact has been made with the person who wrote the letter to the QT, the point was raised that the nearest stop to the Indoorpilly station is inconvenient in its location and has no shelter and the other point raised which is equaly valid is the mumbers of workers (not uni students) who use Toowong and the numbers who make use of the shopping facilities there either to or from work/Uni and the more convenient user friendly facilities for commuters at Toowong

You have to put your foot down somewhere.

[somebody]

Toowong shops are quite useless compared to Indooroopilly.

[Zoiks]

They are also much closer to the station.
I am personally waiting for a big train/bus interchange there

[Gazza]

Once you say that Toowong workers deserve a stop, then where does it stop?  Why doesn't Auchenflower have a stop for the Wesley Hospital?  Why doesn't Taringa have a stop for Data #3 and Tech One?

Lolwut? Data #3 is very close to Toowong, not Taringa: http://maps.google.com.au/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=toowong&aq=&sll=-25.335448,135.745076&sspn=58.968226,132.978516&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Toowong+Queensland&ll=-27.486514,152.990285&spn=0.000916,0.002029&t=h&z=20&layer=c&cbll=-27.486318,152.990321&panoid=h9rhuosCqn7NQswY50pK0Q&cbp=12,62.23,,0,-11.12

The advantage in serving Toowong is that people can change to access a 412/444 to the Wesley.