Sydney Metro

[ozbob]

From the Sydney Morning Herald click here!

Detention company could run new rail link

Detention company could run new rail link
May 2, 2013 Jacob Saulwick

Consortia led by detention centre company Serco and Hong Kong metro operator MTR, which also runs Melbourne's trains, have been shortlisted to operate Sydney's north-west rail link.

Transport Minister Gladys Berejiklian announced the two finalists in the tender to operate the new train line as a public-private partnership.

If built and run as planned, the north-west rail link between Epping and Rouse Hill will be the first line in Sydney to be managed exclusively by private operators. The line will incorporate the existing Epping to Chatswood line.

It will be limited to running single-deck trains with fewer seats than Sydney's double-decked trains. The tunnels being built by the government for the north-west rail link will be too small for the larger carriages.
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The contract to operate the new line, expected to be running by the end of the decade, will not be awarded until the latter half of next year.

MTR, which has attracted controversy in Melbourne for its practice of skipping stations to meet on-time running requirements, is part of a consortium called ''Northwest Rapid Transit''. That consortium includes John Holland, Leighton Contractors, UGL Rail Services and Plenary Group.

''TransForm'', Serco's consortium, includes Bombardier Transportation Australia, Macquarie Capital, SNC-Lavalin Capital, McConnell Dowell Constructors and John Laing Investments.

Wednesday's announcement by Ms Berejiklian means a third group that included the manufacturer of RailCorp's Waratah trains, Downer EDI, has missed out on being shortlisted.

The public-private partnership will be one of the largest rail contracts in Australian history.

It will include obligations to build eight new stations and 4000 car parking spots.

[somebody]

I think it's hilarious when govt depts tell us their certain their plan is the "right one"    famous last words...after all that visionary thinking of the different rail gauges proved spot-on didn't it       

They all made the right decision, just some were more right than others.  I suppose it was however short-term thinking that the lines would ever actually meet.

Huh?  The 4'8.5" decision in NSW was wrong, pure and simple.

[ozbob]

Sydney Morning Herald --> Missing link: PM axes $2b Parramatta plan

[ozbob]

Sydney Morning Herald --> Driverless trains plan as Berejiklian does a U-turn

[somebody]

And thank God for that.

[Gazza]

 
Awesome!

[frereOP]

The north west rail link will now run fully automated. Same as the Singapore MRT and the Japanese Shinkansen.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-06-06/trains-on-new-sydney-line-to-be-driverless/4738702

[ozbob]

Twitter

Aust Railway Assoc ‏@AustRail 1h

Union's fear tactics against driverless trains block productivity and progress http://tinyurl.com/k4hu7zw

[Gazza]

The north west rail link will now run fully automated. Same as the Singapore MRT and the Japanese Shinkansen.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-06-06/trains-on-new-sydney-line-to-be-driverless/4738702

The Shinkansen isn't fully automated.

[Fares_Fair]

And thank God for that.

General question:

Why do we (some but not necessarily all RBot forum members) support driverless trains?
Is it because of the money that can be saved on drivers' wages, which is then (assumed) to be put back into services?

What other advantages are there to it?

[somebody]

And thank God for that.

General question:

Why do we (some but not necessarily all RBot forum members) support driverless trains?
Is it because of the money that can be saved on drivers' wages, which is then (assumed) to be put back into services?

What other advantages are there to it?

I guess that's the major advantage.  It reduces the variable costs per service enormously.  I've seen data from Skytrain in Vancouver that states that 11% of their costs are electricity!  And their trains are quite light, or at least appear to be.

[Gazza]

And thank God for that.

General question:

Why do we (some but not necessarily all RBot forum members) support driverless trains?
Is it because of the money that can be saved on drivers' wages, which is then (assumed) to be put back into services?

What other advantages are there to it?

This article sums up the argument for it pretty well.
http://www.humantransit.org/2010/02/driverless-rapid-transit-why-it-matters.html

Think of the way it has always been an uphill battle for RBoT to even get 15 min frequency offpeak and on weekends, the very base level you need for people to throw away the timetable and be able to live without a car, and travel when they want to.

Driverless means that it costs very little to add extra services.
If you are building a line from scratch, and it doesn't have to share trackage with other services then it makes sense to pick the technology which gives you the highest frequency at the lowest price over the long term.

We make fun of the fact in Qld we build new rail lines costing hundreds of millions, then only run trains half hourly...What's the point?

If the government is setting out to build a line to move people, then you want something which achieves that the best way possible.

Other advantages
-Avoids people jumping onto the tracks, since lines are typically elevated, underground, and have glass screen doors at stations.
-Reliable, less chance for human error, not dependent on drivers calling in sick or going on strike.
-A bit more comfortable, since acceleration is perfectly smooth.

[ozbob]

Sydney Morning Herald --> Driverless trains plan must overcome public scepticism

[#Metro]

1. Humans can overshoot the platform and crash into barriers too - we had this a few months back at Cleveland?

2. There will always be accidents. No such thing as 100% safety. Even today people are run over and killed by trains operated by humans, routinely. What's new?

3. When a person is run over, major trauma results. With no driver, the driver is not exposed to that.

4. The chance of being killed by a moving train is exceedingly small. The chance of being killed by a train AND a driver being able to stop that (think - trains are large, can't stop quickly, inertial physics) is even smaller than that.

5. Humans have a reaction time. A train equipped with heat seeking infraed sensors may react much more quickly.

6. With automatic trains, there is no need for lineside signalling

[ozbob]

[ozbob]

[#Metro]

I hope they roll it out to the entire sydney network. That would be the end of train drivers completely! No need to train drivers, no more waiting periods  for training, or recruiting staff costs, or penalty rates, or sick days off or strikes, no super to pay, no wage bargaining disputes, nothing. Just ultra high frequency all day, all night, every day.

The idea should also be looked at incremental introduction to the Brisbane network as well.

[#Metro]

I think as the technology advances, it would be possible to have automatic trains even with level crossings. What you would have is optical and infrared sensors scanning the crossings for objects before passing through them. And we have to remember that an automatic system should not be judged against a perfect standard - it should be judged against an acceptable / current standard. Trains with human operators regularly run into people and kill them at platforms and level crossings, regularly smash into cars at level crossings even with the emergency brakes activated. So the question shouldn't be "do automatic trains have accidents" but whether the rate is comparable to that of a human operator. I'm inclined to think they would be safer as sensor technology could potentially spot irregularities outside the line of vision of a person. You could also conceivably have fixed surveillance / pole mounted laser scanning at crossing points. A similar thing is used to stop heavy trucks from entering toll tunnels in Brisbane already - technology could be similar to that.

[Gazza]

I dont think it would be an acceptable solution.
Level crossings form a big gaping hole for people to access the corridor and I dont think collision detection technology is sufficiently developed yet....Something can always run across at the last minute.

You'll notice with automated systems that any ground level sections have mesh and electric fencing, so at the present maturity of the technology they really realy care about keeping people out.

Best hope would be to progressivley do each line pair with it's own CBD through route.

[petey3801]

1) Auto or manual driven no train has stopped short of a LX due to last minute blockage of the tracks.

Ummm... Might want to re-think this statement. It actually happens all the time. We don't travel at high speeds across every LX in the network, remember...

[frereOP]

The north west rail link will now run fully automated. Same as the Singapore MRT and the Japanese Shinkansen.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-06-06/trains-on-new-sydney-line-to-be-driverless/4738702

The Shinkansen isn't fully automated.

true, the Motorman does drive the train the final 400m into the station. The rest is fully automated and has been since 1964.

[frereOP]

And thank God for that.

General question:

Why do we (some but not necessarily all RBot forum members) support driverless trains?
Is it because of the money that can be saved on drivers' wages, which is then (assumed) to be put back into services?

What other advantages are there to it?

Driverless means the operation of the train from station to station is not under driver control but trains still have a driver - it's just that the role of that individual has changed. Driverless trains does not mean staffless trains (although it can). The Singapore MRT is driverless but there is a person in the "driver's" cabin to manage operation of the train and monitor on board systems (electrical, pneumatic, braking, computer etc).

[somebody]

That's ATO - Auto. Train operation.

[ozbob]

7 News --> Budget for Sydney's North West Rail Link

[somebody]

I'm confused.  1st EIS was released ages ago.  2nd has been released too.  Why's this the first one, and where is it?

[ozbob]

Yes, strange angle, EIS 1 and 2 ( http://northwestrail.com.au/ ) been out a while.  7 News looking for an angle ....

[justanotheruser]

-Reliable, less chance for human error, not dependent on drivers calling in sick or going on strike.

If labor had removed work choices legislation at a federal level then strikes would be a thing of the past once more. In a couple of states instead of striking the staff would refuse to sell or check tickets. So action would be taken against the government without affecting the public in a negative way. However work choices legislation put an end to that and that part of legislation was never repealed.

[somebody]

I believe they may be referring to this document re:EIS: https://majorprojects.affinitylive.com/public/39d7066570b75af31d0e003537bf2fd1/Director-General%27s%20Environmental%20Assessment%20Report.pdf

[ozbob]

Sydney Morning Herald --> Tunnel work set to begin for controversial north-west railway line

[ozbob]

'On track and not going back'

The O'Farrell government today signed away 1 billion dollars for the North West rail link, as early work began on the biggest infrastructure project in Australia

[ozbob]

Sydney Morning Herald --> Transport for NSW ignores own survey for north-west rail link plans

[ozbob]

Sydney Morning Herald --> Warnings on north-west rail link plan ignored

[ozbob]

Crikey --> The NW link toy tunnels will cripple Sydney's rail future

[ozbob]

MyWealth News --> Work begins on new Sydney skytrain

[ozbob]

Sydney Morning Herald --> Melbourne train operator Metro to run Sydney's north-west rail link

[ozbob]

Sydney Morning Herald --> North-west rail link warned over oversize trucks

[ozbob]

Tea Break --> Let's watch $8 billion trains

--> https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=409697069169471

[ozbob]

Sydney Morning Herald --> Commuters in the dark on shutdown of Epping-Chatswood rail line

[ozbob]

Twitter

Mike Baird ‏@mikebairdMP

The first of four tunnel boring machines will start digging on the North West Rail Link #NWRL this morning #nswpol

[ozbob]

Twitter

Aust Railway Assoc ‏@AustRail 15m

Tunnelling starts on $8.3 Billion North West rail link four months ahead of schedule. http://nwrail.transport.nsw.gov.au/