Where is the bus

[ozbob]

http://www.wheresthebus.info/

Interesting approach.  External link, posted here for your information only.

[dwb]

This is awesome, please Translink give this guy some money so he can invest and improve... and if it is marketed well to a Brisbane audience with iPhones then they might not have to spend several million on a centralised system!!

[dwb]

PS, I'd still really prefer the bus location information to be tied to actual buses so that every bus had it... if only Cubic's GPS system could talk to WTB via that fancy motorola comms network?!

[O_128]

PS, I'd still really prefer the bus location information to be tied to actual buses so that every bus had it... if only Cubic's GPS system could talk to WTB via that fancy motorola comms network?!

Google maps integration and an iphone app were supposed to be delivered late last year

[Otto]

PS, I'd still really prefer the bus location information to be tied to actual buses so that every bus had it... if only Cubic's GPS system could talk to WTB via that fancy motorola comms network?!

That fancy Motorola comms network does use it's own GPS separate from Cubics... Google ' Motorola zeon '

[dwb]

So have BCC paid the activation fee? I would presume they did, afterall, isn't that part of knowing where the corporate fleet is, CityWorks vehicles all have radios too don't they?

I guess one of the big problems with GPS locations possibly from trackZEON in city areas is interference from buildings - this was initially one of the big problems that Cubic had to overcome wasn't it to get the bus stops working properly in the city?

That is part of what makes Where's the bus so interesting... it uses the GPS location sourced from a swarm of users iPhones, and Apple spends seriously BIG bucks on their R&D getting fast accurate GPS locations by using assisted GPS, which uses cell towers, as well as a database of known wifi networks to speed up the GPS lock (which using only satelites can take up to 12mins) down to seconds - this seems to be something that Garmin and others can't do! (I'll post an interesting article below).

Otto, given the BMTMC is a joint operation, do other Translink operators utilise Zeon too? or do they use other comms?

Is that how we get selective stats about certain bus routes becoming 12seconds faster after a road change?

http://www.zeondigital.com.au/trackzeon/about_trackzeon.html

About trackZEON
Putting GPS to work on the Zeon Digital network

How do Zeon Digital radios make the most of GPS technology?
How does the radio update its location?
What are the different icons next to each radio ID on the trackZEON map?
How do I get the most from trackZEON?
What are the technical requirements to operate trackZEON?


How do Zeon Digital radios make the most of GPS technology?

All Zeon Digital radios have a GPS chip built-in (activated upon request by a Zeon Digital customer*) which uses Global Positioning System (GPS) satellites orbiting the earth to determine its approximate geographical location.

The availability and accuracy of the radio's location (and the amount of time it takes to calculate it) varies depending on the environment the radio is in, for example, covered locations, indoors, between high buildings, or in situations there is not a clear view of the sky, can impede GPS lock.


How does the radio update its location?

Zeon Digital radios send location updates based on pre-determined "triggers". The three types of "triggers" are:
The radio's duress button being activated; this will immediately send a location update and continue to do so until the radio's emergency state has been cleared.
The radio being switched on or off; the radio automatically updates its location as either of these two events occurs.
At regular distance traveled and time intervals.

What are the different icons next to each radio ID on the trackZEON map?

trackZEON not only displays the location of a radio, but also indicates the 'status' the radio is in. Each type of status is indicated by an easily identifiable icon as described below:

Status Icons:
   Green Arrow: the default icon to display the location of a radio on the map. Indicates the radio is ON.
   Emergency: Triangle with an exclamation mark, flashing alternately between red and yellow. This icon displays when the radio's emergency button is pressed, and persists until both the radio user and the trackZEON operator have cleared the emergency state.
   Universal Off Symbol: This icon is presented when the radio is off.
   TXI. This icon displays each time a radio has Transmit Inhibit Mode enabled.
   Low Battery: This icon presents itself when the radio's battery level falls below 10%.
   Message: This icon indicates that an unread message has been sent from this radio to trackZEON.
   Out of GPS Coverage: This icon is presented if a radio loses GPS lock.


How do I get the most from trackZEON?

Stay in the open! The radio's GPS chip will obtain a better location if there is nothing impeding its view of the GPS satellites i.e. the radio's antenna has a clear view of the open sky.

MTP850
Outdoors: try to avoid standing next to tall buildings or underneath thick foliage.
Indoors: move closer to windows (glass with certain sun shielding films may block or distort satellite signals).
In vehicles: ensure the radio's antenna is pointed as vertically as possible through a window towards the sky.
Do not cover the antenna with your fingers or unnecessarily impede it with your body.
Keep the battery fully charged to ensure more power is available for the radio to update its location.
MTM800
Install the antenna as high as possible on the vehicle.
Ensure the antenna is not impeded by other parts of the vehicle and is precisely connected to the radio.
Try to avoid moving undercover, for example, in to car parks which can cause a loss of GPS lock.
Remember that driving through cities with very tall buildings can impede the radio's signal from reaching the GPS satellites.
Avoid turning the radio off during short stops in order to maintain one consistent GPS lock.

What are the technical requirements to operate trackZEON?

The following hardware and software requirements will ensure you enhance trackZEON performance:

Web Browser Applications
trackZEON may perform significantly better using Safari than other internet browsers. Safari 3.1.1 can be downloaded from http://www.apple.com/safari/download/.

Please refer to the following instructions to establish a shortcut to operate trackZEON using Safari.

Start this process at the location you wish to establish your shortcut link to trackZEON e.g. your desktop.

1.   Right click on the desktop.
2.   Select New -> Shortcut.
3.   In the dialogue box that appears, select BROWSE. Find the location where you have downloaded Safari to your computer and select. The default location is: C:\Program Files\Safari\Safari.exe.
4.   Click NEXT.
5.   Label the shortcut e.g. trackZEON.
6.   Click FINISH.
7.   Right click on the newly created shortcut and select PROPERTIES.
8.   In the dialogue box that appears, find the target field. By default it will read:
"C:\Program Files\Safari\Safari.exe"
9.   Add the following text to the end, so that the target field reads:
"C:\Program Files\Safari\Safari.exe" -url http://www.trackzeon.com.au

N.B Ensure a space is left before you add the additional text.

10.   Select OK to finish.

Clicking this shortcut will automatically navigate to the trackZEON login page using Safari, without interfering with the internet browser you may use for other applications.

•   Alternative internet browsers to run trackZEON include Internet Explorer or Firefox.
•   MS Excel 2003 or later.

Internet Connectivity
A connection to the Internet is required to access the service, preferably a high-speed broadband connection. At a minimum, high-speed dial-up connectivity is required. Proxy servers must not strip off unknown http headers.

Computer Requirements
Pentium III processor-based personal computer or later with:
•   256 MB of available RAM.
•   200 MB of available hard-disk space.

* Activation fee applies.

[dwb]

I couldn't find the original statement on apple.com, but I got it off another website, very interesting read about locating services!

Apple would like to respond to the questions we have recently received about the gathering and use of location information by our devices.
1. Why is Apple tracking the location of my iPhone?
Apple is not tracking the location of your iPhone. Apple has never done so and has no plans to ever do so.
2. Then why is everyone so concerned about this?
Providing mobile users with fast and accurate location information while preserving their security and privacy has raised some very complex technical issues which are hard to communicate in a soundbite. Users are confused, partly because the creators of this new technology (including Apple) have not provided enough education about these issues to date.
3. Why is my iPhone logging my location?
The iPhone is not logging your location. Rather, it's maintaining a database of Wi-Fi hotspots and cell towers around your current location, some of which may be located more than one hundred miles away from your iPhone, to help your iPhone rapidly and accurately calculate its location when requested. Calculating a phone's location using just GPS satellite data can take up to several minutes. iPhone can reduce this time to just a few seconds by using Wi-Fi hotspot and cell tower data to quickly find GPS satellites, and even triangulate its location using just Wi-Fi hotspot and cell tower data when GPS is not available (such as indoors or in basements). These calculations are performed live on the iPhone using a crowd-sourced database of Wi-Fi hotspot and cell tower data that is generated by tens of millions of iPhones sending the geo-tagged locations of nearby Wi-Fi hotspots and cell towers in an anonymous and encrypted form to Apple.
4. Is this crowd-sourced database stored on the iPhone?
The entire crowd-sourced database is too big to store on an iPhone, so we download an appropriate subset (cache) onto each iPhone. This cache is protected but not encrypted, and is backed up in iTunes whenever you back up your iPhone. The backup is encrypted or not, depending on the user settings in iTunes. The location data that researchers are seeing on the iPhone is not the past or present location of the iPhone, but rather the locations of Wi-Fi hotspots and cell towers surrounding the iPhone's location, which can be more than one hundred miles away from the iPhone. We plan to cease backing up this cache in a software update coming soon (see Software Update section below).
5. Can Apple locate me based on my geo-tagged Wi-Fi hotspot and cell tower data?
No. This data is sent to Apple in an anonymous and encrypted form. Apple cannot identify the source of this data.
6. People have identified up to a year's worth of location data being stored on the iPhone. Why does my iPhone need so much data in order to assist it in finding my location today?
This data is not the iPhone's location data—it is a subset (cache) of the crowd-sourced Wi-Fi hotspot and cell tower database which is downloaded from Apple into the iPhone to assist the iPhone in rapidly and accurately calculating location. The reason the iPhone stores so much data is a bug we uncovered and plan to fix shortly (see Software Update section below). We don't think the iPhone needs to store more than seven days of this data.
7. When I turn off Location Services, why does my iPhone sometimes continue updating its Wi-Fi and cell tower data from Apple's crowd-sourced database?
It shouldn't. This is a bug, which we plan to fix shortly (see Software Update section below).
8. What other location data is Apple collecting from the iPhone besides crowd-sourced Wi-Fi hotspot and cell tower data?
Apple is now collecting anonymous traffic data to build a crowd-sourced traffic database with the goal of providing iPhone users an improved traffic service in the next couple of years.
9. Does Apple currently provide any data collected from iPhones to third parties?
We provide anonymous crash logs from users that have opted in to third-party developers to help them debug their apps. Our iAds advertising system can use location as a factor in targeting ads. Location is not shared with any third party or ad unless the user explicitly approves giving the current location to the current ad (for example, to request the ad locate the Target store nearest them).
10. Does Apple believe that personal information security and privacy are important?
Yes, we strongly do. For example, iPhone was the first to ask users to give their permission for each and every app that wanted to use location. Apple will continue to be one of the leaders in strengthening personal information security and privacy.
Software Update
Sometime in the next few weeks Apple will release a free iOS software update that:
-reduces the size of the crowd-sourced Wi-Fi hotspot and cell tower database cached on the iPhone,
-ceases backing up this cache, and
-deletes this cache entirely when Location Services is turned off.
In the next major iOS software release the cache will also be encrypted on the iPhone.

[dwb]

PS, I'd still really prefer the bus location information to be tied to actual buses so that every bus had it... if only Cubic's GPS system could talk to WTB via that fancy motorola comms network?!

Google maps integration and an iphone app were supposed to be delivered late last year

They've been saying that for a long time O_128... and I believe part of the problem is with how government goes about procuring these systems - they almost always opt for a turnkey solution that works out to be very hard, slow and expensive to implement!  In the meantime they should have on the side granted open access to a database of information they already have (location of the buses) to a savy programmer like Sean Gardiner, the guy who developed Where's my bus, with some grant money. I'd bet they could achieve a 90% working solution with about $20 grand! Cheap as chips!

[Otto]

So have BCC paid the activation fee? I would presume they did, afterall, isn't that part of knowing where the corporate fleet is, CityWorks vehicles all have radios too don't they?


Otto, given the BMTMC is a joint operation, do other Translink operators utilise Zeon too? or do they use other comms?

All BCC vehicles use the Motorola zeon system.
Each private bus company uses their own comms system and none are using the zeon system that I am aware of..

[SurfRail]

All BCC vehicles use the Motorola zeon system.
Each private bus company uses their own comms system and none are using the zeon system that I am aware of..

Private operators all still have their own 2-ways, which can be advantageous or disadvantageous.  You can't talk to other operators (eg a Hornibrook driver can't give a 'nudge' to a Thompsons driver inadvertently blocking a stop, or get them to hold for a connection), but you can talk to your fellow drivers re connections and advance information. 

[seangriffin]

Hello everyone,

My name is Sean Griffin, creator of Where's The Bus.

Thanks so much everyone for providing such wonderful feedback on this app.  A big thanks to ozbob too for finding Where's The Bus even before I joined the forum as a member!  It's great to see that the news is obviously spreading.

Not knowing this thread was already underway, I began posting about Where's The Bus (WTB) over at this thread (which ozbob has rightly locked due to this discussion already being open):

http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=6060.0

Feel free to visit the above thread for some more detail on Where's The Bus, what we're doing and who we are.

I'm more than welcome to discuss any questions you may have about the app and how it works.

Cheers,

Sean.

[seangriffin]

This is awesome, please Translink give this guy some money so he can invest and improve... and if it is marketed well to a Brisbane audience with iPhones then they might not have to spend several million on a centralised system!!

Thanks dbw for your backing!  

We would love to work with Translink on this.  I've never approached them on such a venture, though we know all too well how closed Australian bus authorities are.  Preferring to work at their own pace and not participating with others in growing their solutions.  I do know of one other Brisbane developer who tried and contact Translink some time ago with his own software solution, though he got a negative response.

We're trying to circumvent these barriers with a solution that puts the power back into the hands of the people.  Let the commuters support each other, rather than relying on public transport networks.

[seangriffin]

PS, I'd still really prefer the bus location information to be tied to actual buses so that every bus had it... if only Cubic's GPS system could talk to WTB via that fancy motorola comms network?!

Google maps integration and an iphone app were supposed to be delivered late last year

We're been following the Brisbane market very closely.  I have the mX newspaper article in front of me right now, announcing that Translink has revealed their "latest journey planner mobile website will include a GPS tracking service that allows public transport users to locate nearby bus and ferry stops, train stations and go card retailers" (Friday March 11, 2011).

The article goes on to say "Plans by Translink to implement a real-time passenger information system, linking commuters with bus and ferry timetables to indicate how far away a service is - in terms of distance or time - is yet to happen."

[#Metro]

'where's my BUZ' LOL :-)

(BUZ is TM BCC unfortunately).

I remember seeing something similar on Human Transit--- http://whereismystreetcar.appspot.com/

[seangriffin]

'where's my BUZ' LOL :-)

(BUZ is TM BCC unfortunately).

Love it    I catch the BUZ myself.

Our preference was actually "Where's My Bus", though it had already been trademarked.

I remember seeing something similar on Human Transit--- http://whereismystreetcar.appspot.com/

There are many transport trackers like this around, and they all target specific networks.  I think we may be the first in the world to develop a network free solution for mobile devices.

[#Metro]

It could be done for Train and ferry too...

... might actually get some accurate % services late out of this LOL

[seangriffin]

It could be done for Train and ferry too...

... might actually get some accurate % services late out of this LOL

We definitely plan on releasing a train and ferry app at some point.  Right now we're focusing on building up the userbase for buses only.

Please keep the suggestions coming in, it's great.

On the topic of expanding WTB, we're looking at more things to add.  We got Translink's approval to link to their site.  We'll then probably include bus stops in WTB (Paid).  Currently bus stops are in our other app "Where's The Route".  Then for each stop, link Translink's timetable page for that stop (which they have now), so people can tap the bus stop on the map and open Translink's timetable.

We'd also like to implement a very simple chat interface, such that people can tag the bus they are travelling on with an additional message on the map.  Like "JS, it's SG, I'm on this bus".  That way users riding a bus can communicate to friends in the bus shelters.

[dwb]

Hi Sean, not a problem at all, a pleasure in fact!

Unfortunately [depending on your outlook ] I'm in Rio at the moment and can't gain much benefit from your app as there doesn't seem to be a community here yet. I'll be back in Brisbane soon though and I'm definitely keen to try out the app.

However I've got two pieces of feedback, firstly the app isn't quite as slick in the looks department as it really should be - there's so much competition you've got to look good not just be good!

Secondly, I know you've got to make an income, and I know that rankings are at least partly worked out on paid downloads and use, but couldn't it be a better strategy to really launch it successfully (and fully free) in a couple of trial cities (such as Brisbane) and then later build the paid platforms on that? But maybe I'm being too stingy!

Also, thanks for being here and listening to feedback! Perhaps a little down the track Bob can do one of his press releases querying where Translink's service is and why it is taking so long when someone else has already produced one!

This is awesome, please Translink give this guy some money so he can invest and improve... and if it is marketed well to a Brisbane audience with iPhones then they might not have to spend several million on a centralised system!!

Thanks dbw for your backing!   

We would love to work with Translink on this.  I've never approached them on such a venture, though we know all too well how closed Australian bus authorities are.  Preferring to work at their own pace and not participating with others in growing their solutions.  I do know of one other Brisbane developer who tried and contact Translink some time ago with his own software solution, though he got a negative response.

We're trying to circumvent these barriers with a solution that puts the power back into the hands of the people.  Let the commuters support each other, rather than relying on public transport networks.

It could be done for Train and ferry too...

... might actually get some accurate % services late out of this LOL

We definitely plan on releasing a train and ferry app at some point.  Right now we're focusing on building up the userbase for buses only.

Please keep the suggestions coming in, it's great.

On the topic of expanding WTB, we're looking at more things to add.  We got Translink's approval to link to their site.  We'll then probably include bus stops in WTB (Paid).  Currently bus stops are in our other app "Where's The Route".  Then for each stop, link Translink's timetable page for that stop (which they have now), so people can tap the bus stop on the map and open Translink's timetable.

We'd also like to implement a very simple chat interface, such that people can tag the bus they are travelling on with an additional message on the map.  Like "JS, it's SG, I'm on this bus".  That way users riding a bus can communicate to friends in the bus shelters.

[somebody]

Hate to be negative, but this sort of thing really should be being done by Translink with a feed from the bus's GPSes, rather than having to rely on other commuters.

[seangriffin]

Hi Sean, not a problem at all, a pleasure in fact!

Unfortunately [depending on your outlook ] I'm in Rio at the moment and can't gain much benefit from your app as there doesn't seem to be a community here yet. I'll be back in Brisbane soon though and I'm definitely keen to try out the app.

You're in Rio!?  Gee.  I'm impressed you're taking the time to write to me  

Well look, to be honest, there doesn't seem to be a WTB community anywhere at the moment.  We might have over 600 users on board, but they are scattered across the globe.  We don't see any patterns yet to indicate users are pulling together and supporting themselves.  I suspect we need a critical mass before we start seeing users supporting each other.

But Brisbane seems to be a growth area.  I haven't done any serious analysis of our data, but the US seems to be our best user base right now (no surprise), followed closely by the UK, then Europe and Asia.

However I've got two pieces of feedback, firstly the app isn't quite as slick in the looks department as it really should be - there's so much competition you've got to look good not just be good!

So so true.  And we understand this.  We've focused on many aspects so far, like functionality, usability, reliability, performance etc.  But aesthetics not so much.  We were impressed enough to be able to get this off the ground, because it was a big challenge (for so many reasons).

Another reason why our app isn't as slick as others yet, is that we've made it web-based, rather than native.  You'll notice the slickest apps on the iPhone (ie. Angry Birds, Maps, iBooks, etc) are all written specifically for the iPhone (natively).  We didn't go down this path for a few reasons.  Our skillset is in web development, we rely of web services supplied by Google, we wanted the app to be as easily ported to as many other phones (like Android, Nokia, etc) as possible, and we believe web-based applications are the way of the future (or so companies like Google suggest).  They believe it's just a matter of time before mobile phone browsers (and web-based technology) become so advanced that they will perform equally as good, or even better, than native apps.

Secondly, I know you've got to make an income, and I know that rankings are at least partly worked out on paid downloads and use, but couldn't it be a better strategy to really launch it successfully (and fully free) in a couple of trial cities (such as Brisbane) and then later build the paid platforms on that? But maybe I'm being too stingy!

If I relied on this for income I'd be destitute LOL!    I began this project modestly.  I only wanted any income from the app to cover my costs (the reason why WTB began it's life as a paid app).  That hasn't happened (and hence the free version now).  Maybe one day it will    The idea alone is what's spurred me on more than anything (thanks to my good friend Michael Grasso for that).  We really saw this as a unique solution to a world-wide problem, and I couldn't wait to make it happen.

Agree about the regional (ala Brisbane) versions of the app.  Both Michael and I have already considered this, and you may have noticed that we've gone down this path with our other app Where's The Route, and it's been quite successful (WTR is not free either).  Though localised versions of WTB probably don't have much to offer, because our solution is not bound to local infrastructure in any way.  Perhaps we could add a route lookup interface though, specifically designed for the given region (Brisbane) to help and ensure users select the right route names.

Also, thanks for being here and listening to feedback! Perhaps a little down the track Bob can do one of his press releases querying where Translink's service is and why it is taking so long when someone else has already produced one!

no problems.  Love to discuss.  WTB has been a big part of my life.  Love talking about it.

[seangriffin]

Hate to be negative, but this sort of thing really should be being done by Translink with a feed from the bus's GPSes, rather than having to rely on other commuters.

Couldn't agree more.  But it hasn't happened.  Of course it will ... one day.  

For now, we're filling a need, not just in Brisbane and South-East QLD, but across may regions of the world.

[dwb]

Well look, to be honest, there doesn't seem to be a WTB community anywhere at the moment.  We might have over 600 users on board, but they are scattered across the globe.  We don't see any patterns yet to indicate users are pulling together and supporting themselves.  I suspect we need a critical mass before we start seeing users supporting each other.

But Brisbane seems to be a growth area.  I haven't done any serious analysis of our data, but the US seems to be our best user base right now (no surprise), followed closely by the UK, then Europe and Asia.

Yes, this app definitely requires that critical mass, or its not much use to anyone! For instance it would be most useful getting people who live further out of the city on to the app as they'll provide more data to other closer in users. A user who gains from someone else initially is probably more likely to also help out the community.

Thinking about that, other than goodwill how do you incentivise users to remember to "Get on the bus" using what I can imagine will be reasonably significant battery resources? If the application had data on their specific bus, they might then feel no need to "get on". I also think I read on the site the app has to be in the foreground to work - is this an iPhone multitasking limitation?? I would imagine people would want to be listening to music, reading their email etc while on the bus... not just using the WTB application. Have you for instance considered a points system like Foursquare whereby you compete to become a "mayor" of a route?

We were impressed enough to be able to get this off the ground, because it was a big challenge (for so many reasons).

Absolutely Sean, and CONGRATULATIONS!

[seangriffin]

Yes, this app definitely requires that critical mass, or its not much use to anyone! For instance it would be most useful getting people who live further out of the city on to the app as they'll provide more data to other closer in users. A user who gains from someone else initially is probably more likely to also help out the community.

Thinking about that, other than goodwill how do you incentivise users to remember to "Get on the bus" using what I can imagine will be reasonably significant battery resources? If the application had data on their specific bus, they might then feel no need to "get on". I also think I read on the site the app has to be in the foreground to work - is this an iPhone multitasking limitation?? I would imagine people would want to be listening to music, reading their email etc while on the bus... not just using the WTB application. Have you for instance considered a points system like Foursquare whereby you compete to become a "mayor" of a route?

I was hoping that prior to getting a critical mass we might have started seeing some early adopters.  Maybe a small group of bus enthusiasts, or even a community group or work group, who could see the benefits in catching their own buses.  For instance, a group of 3 work mates who all ride on the same route could use the app to help each other down the line.  I think the app has benefits like this prior to sourcing a crowd.

Yes we do need more "riders".  They are the key.  I had thought that the simple act of helping one another would have been enough to get people on board.  Such as the community spirit you find behind successful apps like Wikipedia, Open Streetmap, Twitter, Facebook, etc.  In Wikipedia (or Wikis in general) contributors don't receive any great benefit for posting or editing articles.  You won't see their name in lights above an article, so they receive little fame.  in my experience they are contibuting for the better good.

Though we have still considered incentives - yes.  For instance, limit the amount of time a use is able to "wait" for a bus, and allow this to be increased everytime the user "rides" a bus.  We can also better explain the benefits of riding to a user by displaying prompts (or nags) whenever there is a lack of riders on their screen.

The app does run in the background, and it's something I'm quite proud of.  It's something we knew was key to it's success.  Actually I should mention this feature more on www.wheresthebus.info.  We knew we'd get little interest from commuters if they had to keep the app running in the foreground during their whole trip.  

If the app is exited or backgrounded whilst waiting for a bus, then the app is suspended, because the user isn't broadcasting any bus locations at this point, so there is no reason to keep the app running.  if the app is exited or backgrounded whilst they are riding a bus, that's a different story.  The app then uses the iPhone's / iPad's own background location service, which enables it to continue running in the background, until such time as you reach your destination.  Once the destination is reached, the app terminates the background service and ceases to run.  It's all transparent to the user.  And amazingly, the app will even continue to work whilst the phone is turned off (in the same manner that you can use voip or play music in the background with the phone or pad off).

In our tests, the app uses very little battery power when running in the background with GPS constantly enabled, and each bus location transmission is around 66bytes.  Locations are transmitted every 20 seconds, so over a 1 hr bus journey that equates to something like 11kb of internet usage.  Quite small.  With all this in mind I think there's little to no inconvenience to the end user.  All we ask is they indicate they are on the bus at the start of the journey, and our app does the rest. ;-)

Foursquare is fortunate in that they've got the "buy in" from local businesses to provide discounts to regular Foursquare patrons, in return for the patronage that the app creates for them.  I'm not sure Translink is going to see the value in making someone a major of a bus route ;-). They might think we are crackpots, and certainly I can't see them rewarding regular patronage from the app with something like discounted go card fares. haa haa.

[#Metro]

I wonder if you can broadcast that your bus is late or full. LOL.

[dwb]

I was hoping that prior to getting a critical mass we might have started seeing some early adopters.  Maybe a small group of bus enthusiasts, or even a community group or work group, who could see the benefits in catching their own buses.  For instance, a group of 3 work mates who all ride on the same route could use the app to help each other down the line.  I think the app has benefits like this prior to sourcing a crowd.

Well you've come to the right place, I'm sure members here will be those early adopters! I would be too, but I don't see so much use here, generally the people who use iPhones here use taxis, their car or the metro.... the people riding the bus here generally don't have iPhones!

Yes we do need more "riders".  They are the key.  I had thought that the simple act of helping one another would have been enough to get people on board.  Such as the community spirit you find behind successful apps like Wikipedia, Open Streetmap, Twitter, Facebook, etc.  In Wikipedia (or Wikis in general) contributors don't receive any great benefit for posting or editing articles.  You won't see their name in lights above an article, so they receive little fame.  in my experience they are contibuting for the better good.

Perhaps.

The app does run in the background, and it's something I'm quite proud of.  It's something we knew was key to it's success.  Actually I should mention this feature more on www.wheresthebus.info.  We knew we'd get little interest from commuters if they had to keep the app running in the foreground during their whole trip.

excellent!

In our tests, the app uses very little battery power when running in the background with GPS constantly enabled, and each bus location transmission is around 66bytes.  Locations are transmitted every 20 seconds, so over a 1 hr bus journey that equates to something like 11kb of internet usage.  Quite small.  With all this in mind I think there's little to no inconvenience to the end user.  All we ask is they indicate they are on the bus at the start of the journey, and our app does the rest. ;-)

Again, excellent, although i do notice a significant difference in battery life as to whether I'm actively using location services or not. Perhaps this is explained by something else I'm unaware of.

Foursquare is fortunate in that they've got the "buy in" from local businesses to provide discounts to regular Foursquare patrons, in return for the patronage that the app creates for them.  I'm not sure Translink is going to see the value in making someone a major of a bus route ;-). They might think we are crackpots, and certainly I can't see them rewarding regular patronage from the app with something like discounted go card fares. haa haa.

hahhaha yes, wouldn't it be cool if Translink did though! You might like to check out http://www.chromaroma.com/, it uses access to Oyster card location data and makes a game out of it in London. Interestingly those users can take "missions", score "points" and effectively become the "mayors" of tube stations for instance.

Good to hear you're thinking about it though! All the best with continued development of the app!

[dwb]

PS, I've been thinking, certain routes or destinations might be good ones to build up a community on, for instance UQ services like 412, 109, 169, 209. It might help spread it to other routes!

[seangriffin]

For all the Brisbane followers out there, I'm proud to announce that we should have a story on Where's The Bus in this weekend's Sunday Mail  . How exciting!  Make sure you all grab a copy (Sunday 5th June).

For those of you in Rio, we'll save you a copy of the story for when you get back  

[dwb]

[SurfRail]

The LCBS real-time pilot program will apparently be providing multilingual real-time info on all scheduled services from later this year, via signs attached to street furniture and by mobile app.

With any luck the data will be made open source or licensed under GNU or some other free distribution/attribution method.  Currently, you can download a package of TT and other data from Transperth to design your own app.

[dwb]

The LCBS real-time pilot program will apparently be providing multilingual real-time info on all scheduled services from later this year, via signs attached to street furniture and by mobile app.

With any luck the data will be made open source or licensed under GNU or some other free distribution/attribution method.  Currently, you can download a package of TT and other data from Transperth to design your own app.

What does LCBS stand for?

It should be multilingual interface, after all the route number, name and due time aren't going to change when put in a different language!

What is this package of "TT" you talk about?

[seangriffin]

Again, excellent, although i do notice a significant difference in battery life as to whether I'm actively using location services or not. Perhaps this is explained by something else I'm unaware of.

It's funny that, because I've noticed that's mentioned in many forums, but I've never experienced it myself.  Maybe because I'm using an iPad predominantly in my development work.  I'm guessing an iPhone, more than an iPad, has a greater battery drain due to it's smaller infrastructure running the same sized Operating System as the bigger iPad (and perhaps the iPhone has a smaller battery due to it's size?).  I don't really know.

hahhaha yes, wouldn't it be cool if Translink did though! You might like to check out http://www.chromaroma.com/, it uses access to Oyster card location data and makes a game out of it in London. Interestingly those users can take "missions", score "points" and effectively become the "mayors" of tube stations for instance.

Chromaroma is quite amazing by the looks.  We had considered the gaming element.  It's at the bottom of a long wish list though.  Because we are only a team of two (split with myself solely on iPhone, and Mike solely on Android) we can't achieve great heights.  But we have big aspirations.  It's also somewhat of a race against time.  The longer it takes us to build new features the faster the competition rises.  It's a competitive environment.

[seangriffin]

I'm trialing a new feature in the free version of Where's The Bus right now.

It's called "Insight" and it's designed to give users an idea of (or insight into) what other bus travellers are doing.  I'm trying to give users more visibility into the WTB universe, to help them feel a part of it.  It's a new button at the top of the app.  

By default, when tapped it displays the 10 most recent bus travels made using Where's The Bus in the past 24 hours anywhere in the world (see the first screenshot below).

The second screenshot shows a zoomed in view of the US, where you can see there was at least 4 buses being ridden within the past 24 hours (one as recent as about 45 minutes ago).  These screenshots were taken at around 10pm tonight (AEST).

A great feature for bus-spotters don't you think?  

[SurfRail]

What does LCBS stand for?

What is this package of "TT" you talk about?

Logan City Bus Service

Timetable

[dwb]

The LCBS real-time pilot program will apparently be providing multilingual real-time info on all scheduled services from later this year, via signs attached to street furniture and by mobile app.

With any luck the data will be made open source or licensed under GNU or some other free distribution/attribution method.  Currently, you can download a package of TT and other data from Transperth to design your own app.

Logan City Bus Service are going this alone? Outside of Translink??? I thought real time information across TL was (one of) its main raison d'etre!

[SurfRail]

Logan City Bus Service are going this alone? Outside of Translink???

Nope.  It is a pilot program - by TransLink and the supplier - using the Logan fleet only at this stage.

I am confident there was a thread on this (or a single post) somewhere around here.

[dwb]

Logan City Bus Service are going this alone? Outside of Translink???

Nope.  It is a pilot program - by TransLink and the supplier - using the Logan fleet only at this stage.

I am confident there was a thread on this (or a single post) somewhere around here.

I've searched (the forum) but cannot find.

But I did find links in Google, not sure how I missed this one really! By 2012 on one of 18 operators.... at $11.4mil.... (124 buses). So how much will the rest of the network cost? and coudn't they start with something like CityGlider (yes I guess they could but wouldn't cos Council would try to take the credit )

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Friday 25 March 2011
The future of public transport customer information will be piloted by TransLink operator Clarks Logan City Bus later this year.

Transport Minister Annastacia Palaszczuk today announced that the 12-month trial of the Customer First product will deliver real-time information on bus locations, arrival and departure information direct to customers.

"Customers have told us they want more detailed and accurate information about their bus travel," Ms Palaszczuk said.

"This $11.4 million pilot will let TransLink know exactly where a bus is and how far away it is away from a stop or busway station.

"The information can then be sent direct to customers via their mobile phones, website applications and also displayed on monitors at stations, terminals, stops and inside buses or ferries.

"The preferred tenderer - German transport company Init, which has installed similar sized systems in Vancouver, Dublin and Dubai - will pilot Customer First on all 124 Clarks Logan City buses which run across 27 urban routes and school routes.

"The system will also operate on route 555 - Logan City to CBD - which is one of our busiest routes carrying more than 120,000 trips a month and includes our two state-of-the-art three-door Superbuses."

Clarks Logan City Bus CEO Graham Davis said he was excited to be chosen to trial Customer First.

"We're happy to trial this system which will benefit our customers and our business," Mr Davis said.

The bus equipment will be designed and built in coming months and progressively installed on buses from November with customer's being able to access data during the first half of 2012.

This data will allow the exact position of the bus to be reported, to a central real-time system that can display that information to customers any number of ways.

Ms Palaszczuk said Customer First would not only make travel easier by providing more reliable travel information for customers, but also allow TransLink to continue to build a better network.

"This system will highlight points on the network which impact on reliability, help improve fleet management and allow us to better use our infrastructure."

[dwb]

I'm trialing a new feature in the free version of Where's The Bus right now.

It's called "Insight" and it's designed to give users an idea of (or insight into) what other bus travellers are doing.  I'm trying to give users more visibility into the WTB universe, to help them feel a part of it.  It's a new button at the top of the app.  

By default, when tapped it displays the 10 most recent bus travels made using Where's The Bus in the past 24 hours anywhere in the world (see the first screenshot below).

The second screenshot shows a zoomed in view of the US, where you can see there was at least 4 buses being ridden within the past 24 hours (one as recent as about 45 minutes ago).  These screenshots were taken at around 10pm tonight (AEST).

A great feature for bus-spotters don't you think?  

Hi Sean, if you use Insight today you should see two routes in Curitiba that I logged today. I had a couple of issues, not sure why but I seemed to keep getting taken off the bus... perhaps an internet connectivity problem or perhaps a location based problem (I was travelling in an area I haven't travelled before so I'm guessing assisted GPS may have been having some issues).

Also, when I first launched the app, I didn't have an active internet connection. When I got the internet working, I had to bring up the recently used applications and kill and relaunch Where's the bus before I could get it to recognise the now active connection. It would be nice to have an easier way to get it to refresh/tell it to refresh.

The bus/person logo seemed to keep disappearing on me too, not sure what that was about. And when I tried switching to Google maps the locator was silver not blue... again this has me confused (anything to do with WTB?... have googled and can't seem to find anything).

[dwb]

http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2011/06/know-when-your-bus-is-late-with-live.html

Google transit now also has live info in certain cities where it has worked together with the transit agencies.

[ozmike]

Hi
Where's the bus   for Android  [img]

Search for 'Brisbane wheres the bus'
in android market..

Our Motto
When you're in a rush use Where's the Bus!

With people power we can show translink hows its done! We just need YOU!
Check out the video - sean did a great job here



Android Developer of WTB

[dwb]

A case for open data? --- http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=6206.0