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Author Topic: Light Rail in Brisbane  (Read 10282 times)

Offline Zoiks

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Light Rail in Brisbane
« on: May 13, 2011, 02:36:58 PM »
I am trying to work out how I would implement Light Rail in Brisbane CBD.

Would you keep the one way streets? Which Male Streets would you put it down?

At the moment im thinking of something like the following...

http://maps.google.com.au/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&msa=0&msid=205827718417611208141.0004a320979dbfac9569c&ll=-27.471429,153.02717&spn=0.006625,0.013937&z=17

Offline #Metro

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Re: Light Rail in Brisbane
« Reply #1 on: May 13, 2011, 02:42:36 PM »
Is that a new bridge zoiks or over the current Victoria Br?
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colinw

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Re: Light Rail in Brisbane
« Reply #2 on: May 13, 2011, 03:00:29 PM »
This is what was proposed by the Beattie Government in 1998.


colinw

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Re: Light Rail in Brisbane
« Reply #3 on: May 13, 2011, 03:14:26 PM »
Brisbane CBD tram & trolleybus routes, 1961

« Last Edit: May 13, 2011, 03:28:37 PM by colinw »

colinw

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Re: Light Rail in Brisbane
« Reply #4 on: May 13, 2011, 03:16:16 PM »
... and I'm posting this nice drawing I found, just because I can.  ;)


colinw

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Re: Light Rail in Brisbane
« Reply #5 on: May 13, 2011, 03:24:01 PM »
Would you keep the one way streets? Which Male Streets would you put it down?
The common feature of the pre-1961 and the 1990s proposals was use of George St.

The original system originally had a line along Edward St, but this were replaced with trolleybuses in 1947.

I note that the system you have drawn up only fills as inner-city distributor role, it has no line-haul function.  You need to consider that further extensions of the system to meet an inner suburban line-haul role, and design your starter system accordingly.

Offline Golliwog

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Re: Light Rail in Brisbane
« Reply #6 on: May 13, 2011, 05:25:18 PM »
I would also add that taking account of where its comign from/to is important. For instance while following the Captain Cook bridge across to Wollongabba is a useful link, this gap in the network will be eventually filled by CRR. But if its going to head east from Wollongabba thats probably not so much of an issue.

If I were putting it in I would go for either Creek and Edward, or Edward and George.
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Offline Zoiks

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Re: Light Rail in Brisbane
« Reply #7 on: May 13, 2011, 06:42:20 PM »
Hi thanks for the replies.

I have seen those maps before and am going to do some more tweaking off it.

The biggest issue I have is integrating them into 1 way streets. I dont see a viable way to do this when you need access to driveways on both sides.

Offline Gazza

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Re: Light Rail in Brisbane
« Reply #8 on: May 13, 2011, 06:44:38 PM »
Quote
Which Male Streets would you put it down?
So Mary, Ann, Charlotte and Margaret, Alice, Elizabeth and Queen streets are out but William, George and Albert Streets are in?

Quote
The biggest issue I have is integrating them into 1 way streets. I dont see a viable way to do this when you need access to driveways on both sides.
The biggest issue I have is light rail sharing roadspace with buses, to me this is akin to flat junction conflicts on a railway.  It can be buslocked as it is, let alone down the track and I don't like the idea of LRT having to stop for reasons other than letting pax on and off, which will inevitably happen due to bus cross traffic.

It at least needs to be a 'pre-metro' tunnel through the CBD.

Offline #Metro

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Re: Light Rail in Brisbane
« Reply #9 on: May 13, 2011, 07:01:48 PM »
Quote
It at least needs to be a 'pre-metro' tunnel through the CBD.

+1  :-t
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Offline SurfRail

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Re: Light Rail in Brisbane
« Reply #10 on: May 13, 2011, 10:19:13 PM »
I would have thought that eventually the stretch of busway from RBWH to UQ Lakes would make a nice light metro, especially if the Gabba ends up being converted to an on-line station integrated with CRR and not a branch.

Cityglider corridor would make a good initial service.

I don't know that you need to traffic George, Albert or Edward Streets with surface light rail.  Adelaide Street is the natural through corridor, and preferably you would be taking advantage of the existing segregated right of way in the form of the current busway for routes arriving from the north west if the system gets that far.

A new bridge from Adelaide Street to the Cultural Centre would be preferable for a surface route, which is what BCC identified in its planning.

Probably not much point in mirroring the Capt Cook Bridge with CRR going in.
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Offline Jonno

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Re: Light Rail in Brisbane
« Reply #11 on: May 13, 2011, 10:37:19 PM »
Our one way streets need to be returned to 2 way anyway so don't let that be a deterrent.  Also the tram needs it's own right of way during major operating hours.  Driving into our CBD (and all major centres) should be a "thing of the past" with commercial deliveries made outside peak hours.  This is how Cophenhagen and Munich operate.

Unfortunately our political leaders are holding onto their dream of 'driving on uncongested roads right into the CBD with cheap car parking' with all their might.

I am in the US at the moment and the talk is all Peak Oil and transit/rail.  Brisbane is at an extreme risk of becoming an economic backwater if we do not make significant transport changes.

Offline Golliwog

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Re: Light Rail in Brisbane
« Reply #12 on: May 13, 2011, 10:49:11 PM »
Our one way streets need to be returned to 2 way anyway so don't let that be a deterrent.  Also the tram needs it's own right of way during major operating hours.  Driving into our CBD (and all major centres) should be a "thing of the past" with commercial deliveries made outside peak hours.  This is how Cophenhagen and Munich operate.

Unfortunately our political leaders are holding onto their dream of 'driving on uncongested roads right into the CBD with cheap car parking' with all their might.

I am in the US at the moment and the talk is all Peak Oil and transit/rail.  Brisbane is at an extreme risk of becoming an economic backwater if we do not make significant transport changes.

Ok, why do our one way streets in the CBD need to go to 2 way? They work fine and it makes traffic lights function much simpler, and therefore with less delays. If it was up to me they would all have only 3 phases: Street 1 only, Street 2 only, pedestrians everywhere.
There is no silver bullet… but there is silver buckshot.
Never argue with an idiot. They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

somebody

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Re: Light Rail in Brisbane
« Reply #13 on: May 14, 2011, 10:04:53 PM »
Our one way streets need to be returned to 2 way anyway so don't let that be a deterrent.  Also the tram needs it's own right of way during major operating hours.  Driving into our CBD (and all major centres) should be a "thing of the past" with commercial deliveries made outside peak hours.  This is how Cophenhagen and Munich operate.

Unfortunately our political leaders are holding onto their dream of 'driving on uncongested roads right into the CBD with cheap car parking' with all their might.

I am in the US at the moment and the talk is all Peak Oil and transit/rail.  Brisbane is at an extreme risk of becoming an economic backwater if we do not make significant transport changes.

Ok, why do our one way streets in the CBD need to go to 2 way? They work fine and it makes traffic lights function much simpler, and therefore with less delays. If it was up to me they would all have only 3 phases: Street 1 only, Street 2 only, pedestrians everywhere.
I think to have bus stops on both sides of the street.  BT would like a two way Elizabeth Street for that reason.

Offline Golliwog

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Re: Light Rail in Brisbane
« Reply #14 on: May 15, 2011, 12:50:52 AM »
Our one way streets need to be returned to 2 way anyway so don't let that be a deterrent.  Also the tram needs it's own right of way during major operating hours.  Driving into our CBD (and all major centres) should be a "thing of the past" with commercial deliveries made outside peak hours.  This is how Cophenhagen and Munich operate.

Unfortunately our political leaders are holding onto their dream of 'driving on uncongested roads right into the CBD with cheap car parking' with all their might.

I am in the US at the moment and the talk is all Peak Oil and transit/rail.  Brisbane is at an extreme risk of becoming an economic backwater if we do not make significant transport changes.

Ok, why do our one way streets in the CBD need to go to 2 way? They work fine and it makes traffic lights function much simpler, and therefore with less delays. If it was up to me they would all have only 3 phases: Street 1 only, Street 2 only, pedestrians everywhere.
I think to have bus stops on both sides of the street.  BT would like a two way Elizabeth Street for that reason.

Maybe, but I can't see them adding all the extra on/offramps to the riverside expressway. I don't see whats so bad about running back the other way in the next street over. Its not like its that much extra to walk.
There is no silver bullet… but there is silver buckshot.
Never argue with an idiot. They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Offline SurfRail

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Re: Light Rail in Brisbane
« Reply #15 on: May 15, 2011, 08:08:13 AM »
Maybe, but I can't see them adding all the extra on/offramps to the riverside expressway. I don't see whats so bad about running back the other way in the next street over. Its not like its that much extra to walk.

1. You wouldn't need extra ramps I think.  Elizabeth Street can easily be made 2-way as far as William Street.  Entrance to the expressway would continue to be via the Alice Street ramps.

From memory, Elizabeth Street used to be a one way street running in the opposite direction to the current layout, wasn't it?

2. BCC wants more kerbside space for bus stops in total, not necessarily for network legibility (ie colocating stops for both directions like on Adelaide St).  A problem of having such a CBD-centric bus network combined with a tiny CBD.  Its certainly a problem you would not have in Adelaide...
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Offline Golliwog

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Re: Light Rail in Brisbane
« Reply #16 on: May 15, 2011, 11:44:51 AM »
If BCC wants more kerb space for buses then put in a reverse direction buslane, but please no general traffic lanes. Its just going to end up making it more chaotic with longer traffic light delays.
There is no silver bullet… but there is silver buckshot.
Never argue with an idiot. They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

somebody

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Re: Light Rail in Brisbane
« Reply #17 on: May 15, 2011, 12:37:58 PM »
If BCC wants more kerb space for buses then put in a reverse direction buslane, but please no general traffic lanes. Its just going to end up making it more chaotic with longer traffic light delays.
I agree with that.

Personally, I don't see much need for either.  A bit more use of Ann St by the full time I/B routes such as the 300/301/306/322/321/370, which I say don't really need to serve the Cultural Centre, and some other reshuffling would sort these issues.

Offline mufreight

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Re: Light Rail in Brisbane
« Reply #18 on: May 15, 2011, 02:56:36 PM »
Could someone please enlighten me as to what kerb space for bus stops has to do with light rail in Brisbane? Please.   :bi

Offline Zoiks

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Re: Light Rail in Brisbane
« Reply #19 on: May 15, 2011, 03:06:56 PM »
CAn someone enlighten me to how a light rail line can go down a one way street with access needed to both sides of the street?

Offline Jonno

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Re: Light Rail in Brisbane
« Reply #20 on: May 16, 2011, 02:00:25 AM »
Ok, why do our one way streets in the CBD need to go to 2 way? They work fine and it makes traffic lights function much simpler, and therefore with less delays. If it was up to me they would all have only 3 phases: Street 1 only, Street 2 only, pedestrians everywhere.

Because is signifies that our CBD roads are not designd for the movement of motor vehicles alone but for the movement of people, cylcists, buses, hopefuly trams/loight rail one day,..oh and motor vehicles. Not a lot to do with light rail but it is all part of the bigger picture.

Offline Golliwog

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Re: Light Rail in Brisbane
« Reply #21 on: May 16, 2011, 08:21:51 AM »
I don't know about everyone else, but I actually find one way streets much easier to cross as a pedestrian. It means there's only one direction to check for cars, and you can quite easily cross in the middle of the block. Once you've waited for the cars to pass. This is of course not during peak, but a two way street you have two sets of lights controlling the traffic past you and quite often this means cars will almost always be driving past.
There is no silver bullet… but there is silver buckshot.
Never argue with an idiot. They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Offline SteelPan

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Re: Light Rail in Brisbane
« Reply #22 on: May 24, 2011, 06:02:26 PM »
The fact that, in 2011, we are STILL - year in, year out, having this discussion shows how utterly useless the current Qld Govt and senior bureaucracy is.  The region from roughly, West End via the CBD, to Breakfast Creek, Teneriffe and New Farm is crying out for a rapid 24/7 light rail service - much like your grandparents enjoyed all those generations ago - all funded, built and operating!

 :'(  all so sad!
If urban rail was a sports stadium - there'd be a station on every corner!  Keep it LOUD for Pro-Rail!  :pr

Offline O_128

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« Reply #23 on: May 24, 2011, 06:30:37 PM »
One of the current  options generating some interest is from UQ over a new bridge before following the current city glider route
"Where else but Queensland?"

Offline aldonius

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Re: Light Rail in Brisbane
« Reply #24 on: May 24, 2011, 11:44:51 PM »
I strongly support that bridge to UQ in terms of general network terms. The effect would be a true central spine.

Of course, we need CRR, NCL improvements, etc etc first.

Offline #Metro

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Re: Light Rail in Brisbane
« Reply #25 on: May 24, 2011, 11:52:24 PM »
what, another one?
It already has a busway connection and a ferry stop.
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Offline aldonius

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Re: Light Rail in Brisbane
« Reply #26 on: May 25, 2011, 04:49:32 PM »
yeah, UQ's pretty well connected as is - not on my priority list, nor should it be on anyone's. But it would be really sweet to have that connection.

Offline SurfRail

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Re: Light Rail in Brisbane
« Reply #27 on: May 25, 2011, 05:48:19 PM »
Having actually caught the 198 recently (amazingly I was in a position where it made sense to do so and not for the sole purpose of just riding it), is the grade on Boundary Rd near the Dornoch Tce overpass manageable for trams? 

Even if it is, you would need some considerable works to widen the road to accommodate traffic lanes, unless you want to end up with trams in traffic again.
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Offline SteelPan

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Re: Light Rail in Brisbane
« Reply #28 on: June 05, 2011, 02:36:56 PM »
Can we get a COMMITMENT* from BOTH major political parties, to start construction work on, not study, a light rail, roughly via West End - CBD - Valley - Newstead - Breakfast Creek (stage two into New Farm) - in the next political term.  This region has capacity for a dynamic 24/7 lifestyle precinct and action should not be delayed any longer.

*I acknowledge "commitment" to a politican does not have the same meaning as to the wider community.
If urban rail was a sports stadium - there'd be a station on every corner!  Keep it LOUD for Pro-Rail!  :pr

somebody

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Re: Light Rail in Brisbane
« Reply #29 on: June 05, 2011, 02:40:56 PM »
No.

Offline SteelPan

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Re: Light Rail in Brisbane
« Reply #30 on: June 08, 2011, 12:01:06 AM »
No.

Why?   ???
If urban rail was a sports stadium - there'd be a station on every corner!  Keep it LOUD for Pro-Rail!  :pr

somebody

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Re: Light Rail in Brisbane
« Reply #31 on: June 08, 2011, 04:40:42 PM »
It would suck up too much money, distract from bigger issues and really not improve much at all other than a marginal improvement for West End and Newstead.  It would also attract a lot of opposition from West End residents who don't want trams.

Such a project would be well behind CRR, so until that is funded, why even think about such a thing?

Offline mufreight

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Re: Light Rail in Brisbane
« Reply #32 on: June 08, 2011, 07:09:15 PM »
Have to agree Simon.   :-t

Offline Gazza

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Re: Light Rail in Brisbane
« Reply #33 on: June 08, 2011, 07:46:20 PM »
^I might add that Sunshine coasters deserve the duplication previously committed too ahead of any other new infrastructure too.

Offline Arnz

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Re: Light Rail in Brisbane
« Reply #34 on: June 08, 2011, 08:10:22 PM »
Freight is pretty much the strongest point for the North Coast Mainline (Sunshine Coast Line) duplication beyond Beerburrum.  

I would put Landsborough-Nambour (part or full) ahead of CAMCOS, imo.
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Offline Arnz

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Re: Light Rail in Brisbane
« Reply #35 on: June 08, 2011, 08:12:08 PM »
As for Light Rail, I wouldn't mind either way, but preferably would have the busways converted to Light Rail with suburban buses feeding into the LR at the nearest station.
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Offline BrizCommuter

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Re: Light Rail in Brisbane
« Reply #36 on: June 08, 2011, 08:25:25 PM »
It would suck up too much money, distract from bigger issues and really not improve much at all other than a marginal improvement for West End and Newstead.  It would also attract a lot of opposition from West End residents who don't want trams.

Such a project would be well behind CRR, so until that is funded, why even think about such a thing?

+1

Offline Zoiks

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Re: Light Rail in Brisbane
« Reply #37 on: June 09, 2011, 12:55:56 PM »
I would have hoped that BCC would be a significant contributer to any funding in brisbane for Light Rail

colinw

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Re: Light Rail in Brisbane
« Reply #38 on: June 09, 2011, 02:09:18 PM »
Light rail WILL return to Brisbane.  Just not yet.  :tr :tr :tr

We have bigger fish to fry at present.  Namely turning  :lo :lo into  :lo :lo :lo :lo:bu :bu :bu :bu

Offline mufreight

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Re: Light Rail in Brisbane
« Reply #39 on: June 09, 2011, 06:49:54 PM »
Right on the mark ColinW.

 

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