Airtrain JetBus? A way forward?

[#Metro]

I've been thinking outside the box at some rather 'alternative' solutions to break the deadlock and downright terrible service frequency to Brisbane Airport.

It seems that asking for extra services hasn't really borne fruit. And the marginal cost that Airtrain seems to be charged to run one extra service is rather high (is it around $400 per train run, I can't recall but that sounds about right).

I used Brisbane Airport recently for my work, look I just can't be bothered anymore. I just pay for the taxi to take me from my house front door straight to the airport. As much as I like public transport, often the cheapest flights are in the mornings/evenings/at odd times, and I just don't have the frequency for connecting services at these times to be bothered. That plus I can charge my work account for the cost of the taxi, so why would you bother...

There has to be another way around the problem. What's needed is proper frequency and mobility. Ask yourself the question, does public transport to Brisbane Airport have to be a train? My answer is NO. It just has to be public transport...

[ozbob]

Big problem TT.  No other 'public transport' is allowed to directly compete with Airtrain under the BOOT contract, even though there is no 'public transport' outside the hours of operation of the Airtrain.  Appalling I know, but that is the contract that was signed off by successive Governments of both persuasions ...  Queensland a public transport backwater ..

[#Metro]

Which brings me to this radical JetBus idea... well maybe not so radical as Adelaide already does it and I have caught the Adelaide JetBuses...

ALL FOR THE PRICE OF A METROTICKET!

Direct 7 day a week JetBus services with early starts and late finishes, link the Airport to Glenelg, West Beach, and the North Eastern suburbs. Jetbus services allow easy transfers to most services in the City.

http://www.adelaidemetro.com.au/routes/airport.html

What's needed is a solution that can be implemented NOW and CHEAPLY that does the job. If we just let go of the "it must be rail" suddenly other options surface. This proposal can be implemented maybe within a month or two and can be done cheaply because it uses surplus buses left over from peak hour. To circumvent the "you can't run PT in competition with Airtrain" and make it commercially attractive, TransLink could perhaps write a contract for these services with Airtrain to run buses. That's right-- get Airtrain to run buses. Get the buses off BT. Put a surcharge on the bus, but only for passengers who touch off at Brisbane airport. Make it prepaid with GoCard. That way we get normal commuter and airport bound commuters pooled together which makes the thing even more efficient. We have all the equipment and maybe you need paint to paint a bus stop at the airport terminals, and that's it.

Hell, put J1 AIRTRAIN on the bus displays if you have to. Make the Airport bus appear on the train schedule screens at Roma Street Train Station with the busway platform appearing instead of a train platform. Make it run on the busways. You can time it to run between Airtrain services so you have 15 minute frequency all day.

J1 Busway to Brisbane Airport
South East Busway to Roma Street then Airport (so maybe Express via Nth Busway?).

J2 Garden City to Brisbane Airport
Garden City/Mt Gravatt Busway, straight up Newnham Road, then up Creek Road to Carindale then
into Old Cleveland Road and into the Gateway Motorway then Non-stop to Brisbane Airport.

This section of the 599/598 Great Circle line between Garden City and Carindale would be abolished (as it would be redundant) and
pickups along this section would be done by J2 Jetbus. The side effect of this is that the Great Circle Line could also be now made simpler
and clockface as you don't have to drive the bus around in circles. GCL services would terminate at Carindale and Garden City.

J3 The Gap to Brisbane Airport via Stafford Road
http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=5018.0
Basically get the route 358 and then when it gets to Toombul, express to Brisbane Airport.

There are two innovations that could be used:
1. Design the contracts so that existing bus routes are "recycled". This keeps the cost right down.
Only charge for the extra distance over and above the normal bus route. This can easily be done with GoCard. Just swipe and it will figure out who went to the Airport and gets charged a premium fare and who didn't and gets charged the normal fare.

In the same way that Brisbane Airtrain is formed out of a Gold Coast Train + Airtrain alignment running, we can also do this for buses. So maybe J1 could be formed out of say a recycled route 160 and get Airtrain to pay for the extension. J2 could be formed out of the GCL section between Garden City and Carindale with Airtrain paying the costs to drive the bus from Carindale to the Airport. J3 could be formed out of the existing 358 (with a few improvements such as extension to the Gap) with Airtrain paying the costs to drive the bus from Toombul to Brisbane Airport.

When the AirportLink comes online, maybe that tunnel could also be used. So we can piggyback off that too and close the relative car vs PT attractiveness and claw back mode share to PT.

2. In addition, after 8pm, services could be boosted to fill in for the fact that there are no trains after this point. The Airtrain screens could simply display J1 AIRTRAIN BUS or J2 or J3 or whatever and the time of arrival of these services. Get airtrain to run buses on the busway to Roma Street Station

[ozbob]

The cost of Airtrain is only $400?  I don't think that is high at all.  It is only 30 pax or so ...   if the services were running the proper hours I have no doubt that load would be reached easily.   Loadings would increase significantly overall as the service suddenly becomes accessible all the time!

I don't think Airtrain would run buses, just blur their marketing concepts and besides bus hire would work out more expensive than the train hire is my bet!

[#Metro]

J2 and J3 would still be useful though, and probably faster too. These routes don't really have an easy way to BNE Airport via Airtrain- you have to backtrack to the CBD and then go out again... so that's all probably taken by car at the moment.

There needs to be services after 8pm... Would a bus be more costly to run? You have one driver; train has 2 staff.

[#Metro]

Of all places, Adelaide has better service frequency to the airport.... leaves airtrain for dead.
oh, and no surcharge on the fares as I know it...

http://www.adelaidemetro.com.au/routes/airport.html

As for blurred marketing concepts, I think it could work:

http://www.adelaidemetro.com.au/guides/images/airport_title.gif

Brisbane Airtrain. Catch the plane, miss the train!!!

[somebody]

I like TT's suggestion here.

J1 I don't agree with though going to the SE Busway.  Just go to the CBD.  You can use a Translink service to connect.

Also, service to The Gap is a bit of overkill IMO.

Your J2 plan is good.  Perhaps feed into the Airtrain at Eagle Junction during Airtrain operating hours.  That way you avoid traffic congestion on Airport Drive, with $20 charge for Garden City/Carindale/Cannon Hill bus station/Cannon Hill railway station to Airport.  Get off at Eagle Junction and don't go to the Airport?  Still $20.  GCL to Toombul, then two trains is very unattractive.  Subsidise the bus with the profitable Airtrain leg.  Perhaps $25.

Actually I think there may be a need to get greater business on the easier fruit for Airtrain first.  Which brings me back to: http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=5734.0

[#Metro]

J1 I don't agree with though going to the SE Busway.  Just go to the CBD.  You can use a Translink service to connect.

I agree with you here and thought about this. I guess there are pros and cons. You are right though. Although the bus itself is a great moving advertisement for this service. You'd be at your busway stop and a bus displaying J1 BRISBANE AIRPORT would fly past you and heaps of other people waiting at the busway platforms.

Secondly, it might be possible "recycle" an existing route- that is, simply tack on the connection to Brisbane Airport on to an existing busway service anyway such as 160, 111 or something else. J2 and J3 can be formed by simply re-organising and extending existing bus services to the airport and re-naming them.

At Roma Street, the train and busway platforms should be treated as if they were mode-blind. That is, the Airtrain bus flashes up on the Airtrain train schedule screen, and instead of platform 1 or 2 or whatever, it would simply list the busway platform.

Also, service to The Gap is a bit of overkill IMO.

Disagree. This is just the normal 358 upgrade proposal for a cross town service, with a bit to Brisbane Airport tacked on to it.

This kind of thing was the original

[#Metro]

PS: Airtrain already runs minivans as connections to the train station http://www.airtrain.com.au/products_airtrainconnect.php
so why not buses too???

We've tried really hard to get more (rail) services to the airport. Maybe it is time to try something different. The J2 and J3 buses serve a niche anyway that doesn't really compete with the train anyway IMHO.

[#Metro]

J1- SE Busway or Roma Street Busway to Brisbane Airport. Could be timed with the train to guarantee minimum of 15 minute frequency. Could also be used as back-up the trains for after 8pm services.

J2- Garden City to Brisbane Airport (I've modified the route slightly, Old Cleveland rd might be a bit of a backtrack)
simply a rebranded and extended portion of the GCL.

J3- Northern Suburbs to Brisbane Airport
Simply take 358 and extend to the Airport. Maybe improve the route a bit as well to serve The Gap and Western Plains Shopping Centre too.

[ozbob]

All noble TT.  But the sad fact is the contract excludes all other public transport options, bizarre I know but that has stopped TransLink putting on buses after 8pm.  Running additional buses to BNE during the day also just won't happen.

[#Metro]

I just think Airtrain should provide a service. ANY service- if that means airtrain contracting buses then that might be one option.

Oh well. Can't hurt to explore the possibilities

[somebody]

All noble TT.  But the sad fact is the contract excludes all other public transport options, bizarre I know but that has stopped TransLink putting on buses after 8pm.  Running additional buses to BNE during the day also just won't happen.

That is the legal advice?  Haven't heard that before.

With the J3, an interesting idea to reach The Gap via Settlement Rd.  From Waterworks Rd/Settlement Rd, you'd be better off to use the 385 to Roma St. I don't think you need to extend into the Airport as you can interchange at Eagle Junction for the train and avoid the traffic.  I wonder if this can be negotiated between Translink and Airtrain to have a jointly funded 358, advertising Airtrain connections?

I still see these ideas as ranking behind sorting out the basic service.

I think you have an idea worthy of being put forward in having Airtrain fund a bus service at times that the train isn't cost effective.

[mufreight]

Unless the transport act has changed considerably the Government can require any licenced transport operator, in this case Airtrain, to provide a reasonable level of service and should for whatever reason Airtrain not be prepared to provide the required level of service, in this case extended hours of operation the Minister or the Transport Department DG can call for a suplementary service to be operated by another operator, as Airtrail is the owner of the rail infrastructure although there are options existing where third party access could be applied which would enable QR passenger to operate additional services the simple option would be for BT or a private operator to operate a service to and from the airport covering the hours that Airtrain does not provide service.
There would no doubt be a scream and the legal people would make a quid with Airtrain screaming for compensation but there are precedents where a licenced bus operator failed to provide an adequate service and the Transport Department brought in another operator to operate over the original licence route, one instance being with the then BCC brought in to operate over a Sunnybank Bus Service route.
Airtrain would be rather upset were that to happen as they could not then extend their hours of opperation as passenger loadings and demand increased which would considerably damage their bottom line.

[mufreight]

The bottom line here is it can be done if the government wants to but plainly there is a lack of will on the part of the current government.  

As for the investors getting screwed over, the cold hard facts of life are that in a service industry of any sort in the private rather than public sector if you do not provide the required service there are always a number of people waiting to open the back door for you.  The transport industry has quite a track record in this respect, in any business if you invest you take the risks, these investors can instruct the directors to change their approach and if they do not then they can kick them out and elect others who will act in their (the investors) best interests.
If they bought a lemon why should the taxpayers and the general public have to pay for it?

[ozbob]

I think you have an idea worthy of being put forward in having Airtrain fund a bus service at times that the train isn't cost effective.

I don't, the bus would cost more than the current cost they pay for rail ... 

It is common knowledge that the contract with Airtrain precludes other public transport options, even after 8pm!  TransLink have looked at introducing buses but no go at this point of time.

[somebody]

I think you have an idea worthy of being put forward in having Airtrain fund a bus service at times that the train isn't cost effective.

I don't, the bus would cost more than the current cost they pay for rail ... 

I cannot accept that a bus would cost $460 per trip.  Run a shuttle to Toombul rail station, and it should be something like a 30 minute round trip.

It is common knowledge that the contract with Airtrain precludes other public transport options, even after 8pm!  TransLink have looked at introducing buses but no go at this point of time.

You could argue that the clauses precluding "competing" transport wouldn't apply as the service isn't competing with a service which has already stopped, especially when heading away from the Airport.  You could also argue that such clauses are a restriction on trade and therefore unconstitutional.  I'm not a lawyer though, so I'm not sure what the correct answer is.

[ozbob]

If you recall last year when Brisbanetimes did a series of articles on the Airtrain, the then Minister for Transport suggested that options would be looked at after 8pm.  Nothing eventuated as the advice was that although Airtrain was not actually operating trains after 8pm, they could not go against the contract and run buses (or QR services) after 8pm.

It is unbelievable really, what a waste of an asset ... even if a BOOT. 

We suggested to Government that subsidising services after 8pm might be a solution.  Got nowhere, Airtrain itself just doesn't seem to understand that if the service was accessible around the clock then heaps more pax would use it, not only past 8pm but during the other periods as well.

[ozbob]

I am starting to think that they way around the mess might be something along the lines of ACCC intervention, or another operator apply for access on the line. 

[colinw]

I thought the enabling legislation for Airtrain specifically excluded it from the provisions of the Transport Act that Mufreight referenced above, i.e. it is explicitly protected from competition and held outside of the framework that all other QLD public transport runs under.

We have both sides of politics to blame for this mess.  The legislation & BOOT were actually a Borbidge Government thing, although Beattie did very cleverly take credit by re-announcing the already announced project soon after his election.  The current Government of course shares blame by not moving to fix the mess.

[somebody]

If they bought a lemon why should the taxpayers and the general public have to pay for it?

It's only a lemon because of the unreasonable charge by the monopoly operator to actually run the services.

[somebody]

We suggested to Government that subsidising services after 8pm might be a solution.  Got nowhere,

Yes, but that was in the Nolan years.

Thank God those years are over!

I also don't like it being referred to as a subsidy, but you see it that way.

[#Metro]

With the J3, an interesting idea to reach The Gap via Settlement Rd.  From Waterworks Rd/Settlement Rd, you'd be better off to use the 385 to Roma St. I don't think you need to extend into the Airport as you can interchange at Eagle Junction for the train and avoid the traffic.  I wonder if this can be negotiated between Translink and Airtrain to have a jointly funded 358, advertising Airtrain connections?

The 358 is to be a core frequent cross town service. Its to the gap to connect to the 385. That way you intermesh the network. I had a discussion in a thread with Golliwog about this a while a go IIRC. Airtrain would only pay for the bus to drive from Toombul express to the airport.

I still see these ideas as ranking behind sorting out the basic service.
I think you have an idea worthy of being put forward in having Airtrain fund a bus service at times that the train isn't cost effective.

The only way that I can see that we circumvent the no PT clause is if Airtrain puts the bus on itself.

[somebody]

Actually, I'd say that the J2 should go to the Airport as TT originally suggested.  Going to Eagle Junction would mean too much doubling back.