Infrastructure priorities

[Derwan]

I really don't understand how it can be believed that 4tph peak isn't achievable. I don't mean to be harsh.

Who said they thought it wasn't achievable?  Here's what I said:

While the 15-minute peak frequency is possible (with the Sandgate platform 2 upgrades), without the Shorncliffe duplication there will be little margin for error.

At the moment, there are only a couple of 15-minute gaps in the morning - achieved by running an empty past the end of the platform at Shorncliffe.  This is the only way to guarantee the next train will be on time (in the peak direction).  The evening sees crews on standby to do turn-backs within minutes.  Some go back as empties.  If trains are late, counter-peak services aren't as important to be on time and empties don't really matter at all.

Regularly using the 2nd platform at Sandgate would improve the chances of running a 15-minute frequency throughout peak but still leaves little margin for error and could affect on-time performance in the AM peak.

[somebody]

Ok, but if freight justifies the NCL duplication/straightening on its own, then I want a business case.

FWIW, here's a cost link for Gowrie-Grandchester, @ $1123m : http://www.artc.com.au/library/IRAS_Map_Engineering.pdf
This link suggests $7.1m benefit per year: http://ro.uow.edu.au/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1829&context=infopapers&sei-redir=1#search=%222005+laird+Australian+freight+railways+for+a+new+century+AusRail+Plus%22

Not justified IMO.  But maybe something without works on the Twba range might be.  Although I don't think anyone is suggesting that Gowrie-Grandchester is justified without inland rail.

[mufreight]

To route the Inland rail via Toowoomba (Gowrie) is another ill concieved bit of manipulation for vested interests which will permanently disadvantage long haul rail in competition with road for freight.
The use of 18th Century engineering to attempt to justify a longer and slower route borders on total stupidity in this day and age.
A tunnel through the main range in the region of Murphies Gap/Cunninghams Gap gices a route with better grades, is more direct (some 85km shorter) and a far superior alignment allowing higher speed operation, the length of the tunnel required is little more than that for the Legacy Way road link (two tunnels) being now built so the expertise exists at the present time.
As for Gowrie Grandchester as an entire project while a desirable project presently justified for the operation of the existing coal, grain and other bulk rail services a considerable gain in western line capacity would be achieved by the realignment for the Grandchester to Laidley section and a new low level tunnel through the Little Liverpool Range which would speed up the operation of freight services, lower their operating costs and allow the extension of electrification west to Helidon for the operation of commuter services and the reinstatement of the Co-ordinated passenger services to Toowoomba

[somebody]

Who said they thought it wasn't achievable?  Here's what I said:

While the 15-minute peak frequency is possible (with the Sandgate platform 2 upgrades), without the Shorncliffe duplication there will be little margin for error.

Oh OK.  I think that if the 3 minutes isn't adequate: step back!  So I disagree with the argument that 15 minute Shorncliffe frequency makes Shorncliffe duplication more of a priority.

the realignment for the Grandchester to Laidley section and a new low level tunnel through the Little Liverpool Range which would speed up the operation of freight services, lower their operating costs and allow the extension of electrification west to Helidon for the operation of commuter services and the reinstatement of the Co-ordinated passenger services to Toowoomba

Has the price of such a tunnel been estimated?

I don't know why you'd go on to Toowoomba though.  The unsubsidised (AIUI) commercial bus service from Brisbane/Ipswich is better than anything Translink/QR would provide, and is also of a comparable price to a ticket to the Gold Coast (about $15 vs $10.35 to Robina).



OP updated.

[mufreight]

the realignment for the Grandchester to Laidley section and a new low level tunnel through the Little Liverpool Range which would speed up the operation of freight services, lower their operating costs and allow the extension of electrification west to Helidon for the operation of commuter services and the reinstatement of the Co-ordinated passenger services to Toowoomba

Has the price of such a tunnel been estimated?
I don't know why you'd go on to Toowoomba though.  The unsubsidised (AIUI) commercial bus service from Brisbane/Ipswich is better than anything Translink/QR would provide, and is also of a comparable price to a ticket to the Gold Coast (about $15 vs $10.35 to Robina).

The price of such a tunnel and realignment through the Little Liverpool Range apparently is included in the estimates for the Grandchester - Gowrie realignment and comprises the eastern end of that project.
As for going on to Toowoomba (Gowrie) the answer is quite simply freight, maionly coal

[Stillwater]

Charlton-Wellcamp, on the outskirts of Toowoomba, is the preferred location for an inland 'freight port' for a proposed Melbourne-Brisbane or Melbourne-Toowoomba-Gladstone standard gauge line.  You've got to get that freight down from the range somehow.

[mufreight]

Charlton-Wellcamp, on the outskirts of Toowoomba, is the preferred location for an inland 'freight port' for a proposed Melbourne-Brisbane or Melbourne-Toowoomba-Gladstone standard gauge line.  You've got to get that freight down from the range somehow.

On land currently owned by a company in which local and state political figures hold a considerable interest that purchased that land from the Queensland Government reportedly at a price well below its current and potential future value, this to many would be construed as a vested interest.
As for getting the freight down the range to Brisbane the road system is already overburdened but Mr Compton and his directors apparently see the completion of the line to Brisbane as a secondary consideration.
Equaly absurd it the argument that by building the line to Toowoomba it can then be linked to the line being built for caol traffic from the downd to the Port of Gladstone, that being the case freight fron the south would then be making an almost 280km detour again reducing the ability of rail to compete with road on the basis of both time and cost.

[somebody]

The price of such a tunnel and realignment through the Little Liverpool Range apparently is included in the estimates for the Grandchester - Gowrie realignment and comprises the eastern end of that project.

Of course, but I wanted it broken down into just the Little Liverpool Range bit.

Charlton-Wellcamp, on the outskirts of Toowoomba, is the preferred location for an inland 'freight port' for a proposed Melbourne-Brisbane or Melbourne-Toowoomba-Gladstone standard gauge line.  You've got to get that freight down from the range somehow.

On land currently owned by a company in which local and state political figures hold a considerable interest that purchased that land from the Queensland Government reportedly at a price well below its current and potential future value, this to many would be construed as a vested interest.
As for getting the freight down the range to Brisbane the road system is already overburdened but Mr Compton and his directors apparently see the completion of the line to Brisbane as a secondary consideration.
Equaly absurd it the argument that by building the line to Toowoomba it can then be linked to the line being built for caol traffic from the downd to the Port of Gladstone, that being the case freight fron the south would then be making an almost 280km detour again reducing the ability of rail to compete with road on the basis of both time and cost.

Even while the Wandoan-Banana link looks like happening.  That one may have merit, largely in avoiding Fishermans Island and a getting a shorter shipping route with a similar rail distance while avoiding the Twmba range.

It only really has merit for the traffic from west of Miles though.  Not sure how much of that there is.

[Gazza]

I don't know why you'd go on to Toowoomba though.  The unsubsidised (AIUI) commercial bus service from Brisbane/Ipswich is better than anything Translink/QR would provide, and is also of a comparable price to a ticket to the Gold Coast (about $15 vs $10.35 to Robina)

Because train = instant success.

Derr.

[mufreight]

The price of such a tunnel and realignment through the Little Liverpool Range apparently is included in the estimates for the Grandchester - Gowrie realignment and comprises the eastern end of that project.

Of course, but I wanted it broken down into just the Little Liverpool Range bit.

Charlton-Wellcamp, on the outskirts of Toowoomba, is the preferred location for an inland 'freight port' for a proposed Melbourne-Brisbane or Melbourne-Toowoomba-Gladstone standard gauge line.  You've got to get that freight down from the range somehow.

On land currently owned by a company in which local and state political figures hold a considerable interest that purchased that land from the Queensland Government reportedly at a price well below its current and potential future value, this to many would be construed as a vested interest.
As for getting the freight down the range to Brisbane the road system is already overburdened but Mr Compton and his directors apparently see the completion of the line to Brisbane as a secondary consideration.
Equaly absurd it the argument that by building the line to Toowoomba it can then be linked to the line being built for caol traffic from the downd to the Port of Gladstone, that being the case freight fron the south would then be making an almost 280km detour again reducing the ability of rail to compete with road on the basis of both time and cost.

Even while the Wandoan-Banana link looks like happening.  That one may have merit, largely in avoiding Fishermans Island and a getting a shorter shipping route with a similar rail distance while avoiding the Twmba range.

It only really has merit for the traffic from west of Miles though.  Not sure how much of that there is.

Typicaly of Queensland Transport and SEQIP they do not give a breakdown of costs.
As for the coal and grain traffic even with the Wondoan - Bannana link there will still be as much coal and grain traffic operating down the range as there is at present due track capacity constraints into Gladstone and the limit of the capacity of the coal loading facilities, as for distance the line haul to the Port of Brisbane is slightly shorter and in terms of operating costs if the Gowrie - Grandchester realignment were to take place the per tonne freight costs to the Port of Brisbane would be also lower.

[somebody]

I don't know why you'd go on to Toowoomba though.  The unsubsidised (AIUI) commercial bus service from Brisbane/Ipswich is better than anything Translink/QR would provide, and is also of a comparable price to a ticket to the Gold Coast (about $15 vs $10.35 to Robina)

Because train = instant success.

Derr.

Please tell me you are being sarcastic here.

As for the coal and grain traffic even with the Wondoan - Bannana link there will still be as much coal and grain traffic operating down the range as there is at present due track capacity constraints into Gladstone and the limit of the capacity of the coal loading facilities, as for distance the line haul to the Port of Brisbane is slightly shorter and in terms of operating costs if the Gowrie - Grandchester realignment were to take place the per tonne freight costs to the Port of Brisbane would be also lower.

The Gladstone constraints can be sorted, I would presume at a significantly lower price than Gowrie-Grandchester.  And I did say "similar" distance Miles-Fisherman's Island vs Miles-Gladstone. Fisherman's Island also doesn't have unlimited coal loading capacity, but it may have spare capacity.  I'm not sure about that one.

The other point about going via Wandoan-Banana is that Gladstone is a deep water port.  Fisherman's Island isn't.  Not sure if it is as bad as Outer Harbour in Adelaide, where grain ships leaving here stop at Port Lincoln to get a full load, but it isn't good AIUI.

[mufreight]

As for the coal and grain traffic even with the Wondoan - Bannana link there will still be as much coal and grain traffic operating down the range as there is at present due track capacity constraints into Gladstone and the limit of the capacity of the coal loading facilities, as for distance the line haul to the Port of Brisbane is slightly shorter and in terms of operating costs if the Gowrie - Grandchester realignment were to take place the per tonne freight costs to the Port of Brisbane would be also lower.

The Gladstone constraints can be sorted, I would presume at a significantly lower price than Gowrie-Grandchester.  And I did say "similar" distance Miles-Fisherman's Island vs Miles-Gladstone. Fisherman's Island also doesn't have unlimited coal loading capacity, but it may have spare capacity.  I'm not sure about that one.

Actually the constraints at Gladstone will be somewhat expensive and complicated to resolve particularly if the standard gauge line is to be taken to the port also with the increased tonnages of coal another shiploader will be required.

The other point about going via Wandoan-Banana is that Gladstone is a deep water port.  Fisherman's Island isn't.  Not sure if it is as bad as Outer Harbour in Adelaide, where grain ships leaving here stop at Port Lincoln to get a full load, but it isn't good AIUI.

Most of the coal exported from Fishermans Island goes to ports in India, Indonesia and Korea which are not deepwater ports so the use of smaller bulk carriers which Fishermans Island can handle poses no problems and frees up shiploader capacity at the northern ports.  Apparently there is still free capacity at the Fishermans Island shiploader.

[somebody]

That's interesting.

If Gladstone is in fact connected to the SG system in NSW, how far south would justify going that way?  Even Narrabri would have a longer rail distance, but shorter shipping distance and avoiding the Ardglen bankers has to be an advantage.

[mufreight]

That's interesting.

If Gladstone is in fact connected to the SG system in NSW, how far south would justify going that way?  Even Narrabri would have a longer rail distance, but shorter shipping distance and avoiding the Ardglen bankers has to be an advantage.

The Gunnadah coal fields would export through Gladstone but the 280km + detour through Toowoomba would be a quite considerable deterrent, if the line were to cross the border and run direct to Miles to join the line to Wandoan, Banana and Gladstone saving the detour to Toowoomba the line would be faster with better alignment and grades therefor less costly to operate.

[petey3801]

Is there anything (apart from some extra costs to start up etc.) stopping the line having a junction at a convenient place with one fork heading up to Wandoan/Gladstone for coal etc., and the other fork heading towards Toowoomba/Brisbane for Brisbane bound freight etc.?

[somebody]

That's interesting.

If Gladstone is in fact connected to the SG system in NSW, how far south would justify going that way?  Even Narrabri would have a longer rail distance, but shorter shipping distance and avoiding the Ardglen bankers has to be an advantage.

The Gunnadah coal fields would export through Gladstone but the 280km + detour through Toowoomba would be a quite considerable deterrent, if the line were to cross the border and run direct to Miles to join the line to Wandoan, Banana and Gladstone saving the detour to Toowoomba the line would be faster with better alignment and grades therefor less costly to operate.

If as far south as Gunnedah would go through Gladstone, then we don't need the duplication on the north face of the hill at Ardglen which is apparently about to be built at a cost of $200m.

The SG track through to North Star is serviceable (at 20km/h for some of it).  If you are re-gauging, could you go via Goondawindi, then west to Bungunya, north to Miles via Westmar, Meandarra and Condamine.

$200m wouldn't pay for all of that as well as the needed bit into Gladstone, but it is making a worthy contribution.

[mufreight]

Is there anything (apart from some extra costs to start up etc.) stopping the line having a junction at a convenient place with one fork heading up to Wandoan/Gladstone for coal etc., and the other fork heading towards Toowoomba/Brisbane for Brisbane bound freight etc.?

The costs of building the line via Toowoomba are possibly more than that of the more direct line and shorter line to join the existing SG line into Brisbane in the Bromelton - Tamrookum region.
The more direct alignment built using current engineering standards being some 85km shorter being faster because of both grade and alignment would save between an hour and a half to two hours in transit time with lower operating costs gives rail a more competitive position in competition with road for freight which would encourage the shift of freight from road to rail that government assures is desirable for both economy and ecology.  The reduction in the numbers of trucks on the major highways involved will also contribute to improved road safety further saving lives.

[dwb]

My list of high priority infrastructure besides CRR is (in order):
Clapham stabling
Doomben partial duplication
Northgate #4 to Virginia #2 crossover
Sandgate platform #2 upgrades
Cleveland line duplications: IMO should be Thorneside-Wellington Point
Robina yard to 10 space (why wasn't this done when it was upgraded from 5 to 7?)
Beerburrum-Glass House Mountains duplication & straightening (allows clockface hourly frequency to Landsborough)
Sunshine Coast stabling upgrades
Eudlo-Palmwoods duplication & straightening (or similar)
Thorneside stabling
Eagle Junction to west end of Clayfield station duplication - needed to reduce cascading delays if a problem occurs on the single track
Beenleigh line crossovers
Petrie #1 to up main path to not conflict with down main to Petrie #2 path
Raising of 25-30km/h speed limits around Roma St West
Petrie stabling upgrade
Loganlea triplication - should allow david's Beenleigh line plan to proceed.
Straightening of the Northgate #4 to Virginia #3 path - currently requires traversing the diverging leg of a turnout
Ferny Grove-Mayne direct connection.  I'd add Shorncliffe also - currently it is needed to run around via Roma St.

Lower priorities:
Shorncliffe duplication
Ferny Grove line works beyond Keperra
Oxley 4th platform
Corinda-Darra 4th road electrification
Lawnton-Petrie amplifications
Station painting etc. works.
Redbank stabling
Darra-Redbank triple

Which is proceeding??

EDIT: Added Redbank & sunny coast stabling, Redbank triple, Robina yard, title, Petrie arrangements, Mayne arrangements

This thread is filed under Qld>Open... and yet there is not a single mention of any bus infrastructure. Despite this being Rail back on track, I find that lacking as we have a multimodal network and multimodal integrated ticketing

[ozbob]

Well, maybe the OP should have been titled Rail infrastructure priorities ...   

It was clear from the OP that was the intent.   Start up a bus infrastructure thread ...

[somebody]

This thread is filed under Qld>Open... and yet there is not a single mention of any bus infrastructure. Despite this being Rail back on track, I find that lacking as we have a multimodal network and multimodal integrated ticketing

Infrastructure really isn't the priority for the bus system is it?

If you have suggestions for infrastructure for the bus system, feel free to post them.

I guess infrastructure isn't the priority for the rail system either, but it is more needed there.

[#Metro]

I think the train system needs more infrastructure to unblock, but generally not extend, it.
We need to be able to run trains in both directions at high frequency at the same time.
So that means we need high frequency and also high counter peak frequency as well.

My thoughts are that what we have got has to be fixed up before we can really think of extensions (so Doomben and Sunshine Coast/CAMCOS spur is in, Flagstone and Ripley/Yarrabilla/Gold Coast Airport/Helidon/Samford is out).

I've had enough of mediocre service, and the fact that our train system can't cope with high low frequency in both directions (15 minutes or 20 minutes won't work on Cleveland, Beenleigh, Shorncliffe, Doomben etc) is just appalling. What kind of rail system is it when you can't run trains at 20 minute frequency? What a joke!

[Sunbus610]

>Moderate to major upgrades to general bus stops including the infrastructure ie seating / shelter / lighting / route map & timetable information / concrete surface

>Major upgrades to major bus stops and bus interchanges ie ie seating / shelter / lighting / route map & timetable (include real time or electronic display) information / toilet facilities / parking available for commuters

>Roll out more TRANSLink PT info kiosks (either manned or self serve) similar to the one in the Queen Street Mall at major shopping centres / public transport hubs

>Real time or electronic display improvements or upgrades to train timetable information at major railway stations accross the network ie Northgate / Eagle Junction / Petrie / Landsborough / Caboolture / Beenleigh etc etc

[#Metro]

I like your list.

Traffic light priority?

[dwb]

Closed busway station at least at King George Square.

New link from CBD to Woolloongabba.

Storey Bridge buslanes/way

Victoria Bridge car lanes closed, improvements to busway and ped/cycle connections.

What about some more pedestrian bridges?

Or a bus bridge New Farm to Bulimba?

[Fares_Fair]

No. 1

Duplication of the line from Beerburrum to Nambour, followed closely or concurrently by CAMCOS.
To allow for real improvement in both passenger and rail freight services to the third highest growth area in the State of Queensland.

Regards,
Fares_Fair.

[colinw]

I'm inclined to agree with Fares_Fair.

As far as MAJOR infrastructure work goes, CRR, Sunshine Coast & CAMCOS have to be it.

Other than that, I'd like some serious investigation of just what smaller projects (e.g. crossovers) are necessary to facilitate extension of the 15 minute offpeak service as far as is possible.

[somebody]

No. 1

Duplication of the line from Beerburrum to Nambour, followed closely or concurrently by CAMCOS.
To allow for real improvement in both passenger and rail freight services to the third highest growth area in the State of Queensland.

Regards,
Fares_Fair.

I can't agree with CAMCOS ranking ahead of most of my list.  I have some sympathy for the need for at least some duplication works.

Although there is some argument that duplication to the CAMCOS branching point would free up paths for freight as well as promoting patronage.

Closed busway station at least at King George Square.

New link from CBD to Woolloongabba.

Storey Bridge buslanes/way

Victoria Bridge car lanes closed, improvements to busway and ped/cycle connections.

What about some more pedestrian bridges?

Or a bus bridge New Farm to Bulimba?

By closed, I think you mean pre-paid.  It already is in the PM peak.  Making it full time has a lot of merit.

Storey Bridge bus lanes YES!  In peak at least.  But politically improbable.

Vic bridge car lanes?  Why?

Bus bridge to Bulimba - I have heard that bridging around there is quite difficult due to the lack of bedrock.

[#Metro]

I would agree that the duplication works need to be higher priority as that will remove all the rail buses. Which will be a huge relief.

Secondly, but still important is the CAMCOS spur, but ONLY TO CALOUNDRA. It can plug into the bus system from thereon.
This will allow money to be freed up on fixing up core capacity on the rail network (duplications, crossovers, signalling etc).

I can live with open stations- but closing them would be preferable. However, this costs money and I think any money really should be
funnelled into a Core Frequent Network with boosted frequency.

Bus/T2 lanes are a no-brainer.

[Gazza]

Why does Shorncliffe have to be an expensive duplication, a little over a kilometer, no resumptions or earthworks needed, and there is already double track on the station approaches which would just need resleepering. Shorncliffe itself is just a terminus station, so only a platform is needed, no lifts etc.

Should be CHEAP compared to the Ferny grove project.

[HappyTrainGuy]

I can't agree with CAMCOS ranking ahead of most of my list.  I have some sympathy for the need for at least some duplication works.

Although there is some argument that duplication to the CAMCOS branching point would free up paths for freight as well as promoting patronage.

Can you explain your reason as to why? Without the duplication you can not increase/make more frequent Caboolture/Nambour/Roma Street/Ipswich services. It is as simple as that. Even if duplicating to Shorncliffe/Doomben who is to say that the trains/services won't be impacted between Petrie/Caboolture.

[somebody]

I can't agree with CAMCOS ranking ahead of most of my list.  I have some sympathy for the need for at least some duplication works.

Although there is some argument that duplication to the CAMCOS branching point would free up paths for freight as well as promoting patronage.

Can you explain your reason as to why? Without the duplication you can not increase/make more frequent Caboolture/Nambour/Roma Street/Ipswich services. It is as simple as that. Even if duplicating to Shorncliffe/Doomben who is to say that the trains/services won't be impacted between Petrie/Caboolture.

I said CAMCOS, not the duplication.

But what effect would either have on Ipswich services?  Even Caboolture services should be completely doable with present infrastructure constraints in place.

[HappyTrainGuy]

There's a limit to the times of services that can use Petrie/Caboolture because of services that run express and freight paths to/from the North. The current infrastructure might be able to handle it in theory but when you put it all onto paper and add in all the other services because of the single line thats North of Caboolture that's when problems arise trying to allocate services to use the line between Caboolture/Petrie which then feed on to Ipswich (If you use the Caboolture-Ipswich line for example).

[dwb]

Closed busway station at least at King George Square.

New link from CBD to Woolloongabba.

Storey Bridge buslanes/way

Victoria Bridge car lanes closed, improvements to busway and ped/cycle connections.

What about some more pedestrian bridges?

Or a bus bridge New Farm to Bulimba?

By closed, I think you mean pre-paid.  It already is in the PM peak.  Making it full time has a lot of merit.

Storey Bridge bus lanes YES!  In peak at least.  But politically improbable.

Vic bridge car lanes?  Why?

Bus bridge to Bulimba - I have heard that bridging around there is quite difficult due to the lack of bedrock.

By "closing" KGS busway station, I mean operating it like a central city train station with the tagging done at fair gates on the concourse level to enable all door boarding of buses without tagging (ie not simply just no tickets sold on bus). This would increase peak capacity at the station as services would board quicker and hence more services would be able to use the stops. Presumably it would be rather complex coding to implement given that you could be changing bus routes without tagging.... however there could be transfer tag points on platform level like between the DLR and tube in London.

I don't believe "closing" most rail stations (or indeed other busway stations) is actually that important (only close them if they are a major destination and gates can be monitored). Just KGS as its is a limiter of bus services in the CBD.

I'd also propose
- a busway station somewhere in the Valley to tie into those buslanes on Storey Bridge.
- significant reform of taxi licencing.... everywhere I travel cheap taxis easily caught are the vanguard to reducing car ownership which in turn promotes PT
- implementation of a Translink owned car sharing scheme like GoGet or Zip. Would require the parking spots, the cars, and the administration component.

[somebody]

Realised what you meant about the closed KGSBS station later.  The main limitation to the effectiveness of KGSBS is the reluctance to use it properly.  All Kelvin Grove Rd services should use it.  And why the 111?  Wasting capacity on a south side route is not appropriate, and further undermines the legibility of south side route system.  Don't get me started on the 444/443/88 either.

There's a limit to the times of services that can use Petrie/Caboolture because of services that run express and freight paths to/from the North. The current infrastructure might be able to handle it in theory but when you put it all onto paper and add in all the other services because of the single line thats North of Caboolture that's when problems arise trying to allocate services to use the line between Caboolture/Petrie which then feed on to Ipswich (If you use the Caboolture-Ipswich line for example).

Doesn't Caboolture-Beerburrum make this easier, as trains can refuge north of Caboolture without impacting on the Caboolture suburban trains?

[HappyTrainGuy]

There's a limit to the times of services that can use Petrie/Caboolture because of services that run express and freight paths to/from the North. The current infrastructure might be able to handle it in theory but when you put it all onto paper and add in all the other services because of the single line thats North of Caboolture that's when problems arise trying to allocate services to use the line between Caboolture/Petrie which then feed on to Ipswich (If you use the Caboolture-Ipswich line for example).

Doesn't Caboolture-Beerburrum make this easier, as trains can refuge north of Caboolture without impacting on the Caboolture suburban trains?

Not really. The recent realignment has sped up the times and speeds for trains on approach to Caboolture. If anything the suburbans should be held to let the freight/Roma Street services through just for the fact that they are faster than the all station services.

[somebody]

There's a limit to the times of services that can use Petrie/Caboolture because of services that run express and freight paths to/from the North. The current infrastructure might be able to handle it in theory but when you put it all onto paper and add in all the other services because of the single line thats North of Caboolture that's when problems arise trying to allocate services to use the line between Caboolture/Petrie which then feed on to Ipswich (If you use the Caboolture-Ipswich line for example).

Doesn't Caboolture-Beerburrum make this easier, as trains can refuge north of Caboolture without impacting on the Caboolture suburban trains?

Not really. The recent realignment has sped up the times and speeds for trains on approach to Caboolture. If anything the suburbans should be held to let the freight/Roma Street services through just for the fact that they are faster than the all station services.

Or maybe you could update the timetables so the problem you are referring to doesn't happen.

I don't think I can support freight having priority over pax in such a situation.  It's just too bad if a freighter misses its path in that circumstance.  It can be further slowed by trailing the all stopping train.

[mufreight]

Freight, (coal services) are frequently operated on the red lights of the preceeding all stations passenger service on the Ipswich line between Rosewood and Corinda.

[HappyTrainGuy]

There's a limit to the times of services that can use Petrie/Caboolture because of services that run express and freight paths to/from the North. The current infrastructure might be able to handle it in theory but when you put it all onto paper and add in all the other services because of the single line thats North of Caboolture that's when problems arise trying to allocate services to use the line between Caboolture/Petrie which then feed on to Ipswich (If you use the Caboolture-Ipswich line for example).

Doesn't Caboolture-Beerburrum make this easier, as trains can refuge north of Caboolture without impacting on the Caboolture suburban trains?

Not really. The recent realignment has sped up the times and speeds for trains on approach to Caboolture. If anything the suburbans should be held to let the freight/Roma Street services through just for the fact that they are faster than the all station services.

Or maybe you could update the timetables so the problem you are referring to doesn't happen.

I don't think I can support freight having priority over pax in such a situation.  It's just too bad if a freighter misses its path in that circumstance.  It can be further slowed by trailing the all stopping train.

Changing the timetable may not actually prevent all the clashes due to the fact there is 1 line to the north of Caboolture and freight/express/traveltrain services are substantially faster than the all station services on the 25km section of track South of Caboolture. As it is already, the TiltTrain leaves Roma Street about 31 mins after the Caboolture all stations train and it arrives at Caboolture about 4 mins after it does. 5 minutes later the Cooroy service rocks up for its run past Caboolture. The new timetable has tried to minimise clashes but because of the single line and the all station trains there's still a couple clashes and very close running of services. Caboolture has the Sunlander on platform 1 at 10.05, Caboolture all stations arriving on platform 3 at 10.10, then at 10.20 the Gympie service arrives on platform 1. Between Caboolture-Gympie North the ICE units are effectivly shadowing the Sunlander until the its replaced with the newer Tilts. Its also partly the reason why the Nambour-Roma Street services now stop a few more stations after Caboolture inbound in the mornings as not to catch the Caboolture-Petrie-Roma Street express trains around Narangba-Petrie. If you want more frequent services to run on the NCL there needs to be a third track between Lawnton-Caboolture and duplication Caboolture-Gympie North/Maryborough.

[somebody]

Or maybe you could update the timetables so the problem you are referring to doesn't happen as often.

Is that better?

The Tilt could use the middle road to pass the suburban trains, and this would need to be done if the Petrie trains which RailBoT is calling for would be added.

Main limitation with that is the lack of a crossover from Northgate #4 to Virginia #2.  Unless I am missing something.

[somebody]

I'd replace Eudlo-Palmwoods with Mooloolah-Palmwoods, if you look at the map, you'll see the huge curves in this section.  Not to mention the "U" curve into Eudlo from Mooloolah.

Agreed.  OP Updated.