New Timetables 2011 June

[somebody]

I don't get why they would say that the 3 car service would be permanent.  Once the Beenleigh depot upgrade is done wouldn't they get rid of the 3 car trains across the network, except for Ipswich-Rosewood?

[ozbob]

Twitter

QueenslandRail

We're closely monitoring the timetable implementation, including the loading on services. Here's the control centre live http://ow.ly/i/cEh6
9 hours ago

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This control centre is not 'train control at Mayne' but a special centre to coordinate the introduction of the new timetables.  Demonstrates the real committment to getting it right by Queensland Rail.  Well done!

I had a quick visit to this special control centre this morning.  Very comprehensive with all elements to monitor train operation from actual network control, passenger loading, security, feedback, crew management with the introduction of the new timetables.  Timetable planners also involved in the monitoring processes.  Every train service is followed from operational and loading perspectives.  This information is being used to further optimise as necessary.  I think if the average punter knew just how much was involved in this implementation they would be a little more tolerant as things are bedded down.

[somebody]

Twitter

QueenslandRail

We're closely monitoring the timetable implementation, including the loading on services. Here's the control centre live http://ow.ly/i/cEh6
9 hours ago

====================

This control centre is not 'train control at Mayne' but a special centre to coordinate the introduction of the new timetables.  Demonstrates the real committment to getting it right by Queensland Rail.  Well done!

I had a quick visit to this special control centre this morning.  Very comprehensive with all elements to monitor train operation from actual network control, passenger loading, security, feedback, crew management with the introduction of the new timetables.  Timetable planners also involved in the monitoring processes.  Every train service is followed from operational and loading perspectives.  This information is being used to further optimise as necessary.  I think if the average punter knew just how much was involved in this implementation they would be a little more tolerant as things are bedded down.

That's one way of looking at it.  There is another: that the effort was gold plated and made much harder than it needed to be.

[ozbob]

I think it is good that the tools to monitor the network and implementation of the timetables are all together and coordinated.  Common sense actually.

The Mayne Control Centre is not set up for a special function as that.  In any case you wouldn't want the extra functionality interfering with the actual control as such either.

[ozbob]

From the Caboolture Shire Herald click here!

Signals right for train times

Signals right for train times
9 Jun 11 @ 11:33am

The new timetable came into effect on Monday, with additional morning and afternoon peak services for Morayfield, Burpengary, Narangba and Dakabin commuters. The new services also means train intervals have halved for some peak hour services but most expresses no longer stop at Lawnton, Petrie and Strathpine.

TransLink's aim is to increase capacity and improve reliability of services.

Caboolture resident Jessie Moore described the revised timetables as "awesome", while Sunshine Coast commuter Braden Wade said it was an improvement. Deanne Brough of Petrie welcomed the changes with minor reservations.

"The timetable is pretty good but some connect times have changed,'' Ms Brough said.

Robert Dow, from the advocacy group Rail Back on Track, said the response he had from commuters was positive.

He had expected that commuters' immediate reaction might be negative as many journeys had an additional 10-minute travel time. But in comparison to the late arrival of trains in the past, travel times would be virtually the same, he said.

Mr Dow said the updated services had come about from a collaboration of TransLink and Queensland Rail information, gathered from tracking go cards and community consultation.

Not all were happy with the changes. Caboolture station kiosk owner Sharon Farrell said her customers' attitudes showed they were not entirely happy.

"They don't mean to be cranky. But they have to get up earlier to catch their train. They are always in a hurry,'' she said.

Train traveller Michelle Carpenter said authorities should "spend money on fixing tracks that are already there''.

She was also in favour of focusing on improving train services over those of buses.

[ozbob]

I journeyed in from Goodna to Central this morning on a late running 6.35am service ex Goodna (SMU295 leading, not sure of the second set).

Some timetable observations.

Departed Goodna 6.42am 7 minutes late

Darra   5 minutes late

Indooroopilly  3 minutes late

Speed restriction on main down UP from Taringa slowed train considerably.  Without that I think the train would have 2 minutes late at Roma St.

Milton  4 minutes late

Roma St  7.06 am 3 minutes late  

Central  7.09am 3 minutes late

24 minutes to run Goodna to Roma St, with a slight speed check between Darra and Oxley, and major slowing on approach to Taringa.

Timetable is 6.35 - 7.03 28 minutes ...

Interesting ...

[somebody]

Which supports what I have been saying all along.  Both Milton-Roma St and Darra-Indro are quite fat.

[#Metro]

what if there was no fat. then the reliability statistic would go down.

[somebody]

what if there was no fat. then the reliability statistic would go down.

There is a trade involved. 

[somebody]

I hate longitudinal seating.  Doesn't increase standing capacity that much as peoples' feet occupy the space, is far less comfortable to sit on and then there are less seats.

My research found that standing indeed uses less room then sitting. Depends on whether we want capacity or comfort. The biggest change in capacity would be realised by adding another set of doors in the middle. This would add more standing room, encourage people to move between the seats more and speed up loading/unloading times.

Further comment on this: If we have to have reduced seating, I'd prefer 1 abreast lateral seating to longitudinal.

[#Metro]

the difference?

[somebody]

Acceleration/decel doesn't give you side loads, and feet don't intrude onto the aisle.

[#Metro]

Acceleration/decel doesn't give you side loads

What does this mean?

[Golliwog]

Acceleration/decel doesn't give you side loads

What does this mean?

When you slow down/speed up if you have longitudinal seating you get pushed sideways (usually into someone if its a full train). Lateral seating means you get pushed forward or back depending.

[somebody]

Thank you for putting that in normal person terms for me.

[Gazza]

Also solves the problem of
-People putting stuff on the seat next to them
-That whole "Oooh, I don't want to sit next to a stranger"


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/ba/Skytrain_Mark_II_2009_inside.jpg

[justanotheruser]

caught 4:16pm ex central to ipswich
was very crowded at milton. Another passenger commented that it hasn't been that full earlier this week so perhaps people are adjusting travel times. All stops richlands train leaves few minutes beforehand.

caught 7:27am ex ipswich an imu (i think) with luggage racks & toilet. Seats in 3 carriages were half occcupied upon departure. couple of minutes late on arrival in city. at dinmore seats 3/4 occupied nobody standing till indro (were a few standing but actually enough seats available for them). Massive slow down just after indro for a bit despite freen signals. then sped up again and went at good pace.

I was impressed on the way in but didn't like standing on way home till darra as I'm on my feet all day. Can't really complain though. Service was pretty much on time which is always nice if buses are scheduled to leave after train arrives although I walk elsewhere before going home.

[justanotheruser]

Also solves the problem of
-People putting stuff on the seat next to them
-That whole "Oooh, I don't want to sit next to a stranger"

I've never had a problem with someone having stuff on seat. I don't hesitate to politely ask them to move stuff which will get me a seat over almost everyone else as they take time to muster courage to ask!  I used to have my bag on the seat next to me in peak hour simply because when someone sits next to me I would put it on my lap as it was often too difficult to get up of the floor. Now I don't need to take so much stuff to work its no problem to get the bag off the floor.

[#Metro]

Also solves the problem of
-People putting stuff on the seat next to them
-That whole "Oooh, I don't want to sit next to a stranger"

Look at that guy in orange. Maybe it should be called "antisocial" seating.

Although I will agree. Look at all that space!


Next challenge-- how to punch an extra door or two into the train...

[HappyTrainGuy]

Same layout as an ICE train just without fantastic sleepy seats

[Gazza]

Almost everyone else as they take time to muster courage to ask!

I'm not the asking type, I move the bag for them 

Bags should never go on the seats, because it gets dirt on the seats.

[petey3801]

Which supports what I have been saying all along.  Both Milton-Roma St and Darra-Indro are quite fat.

After doing a couple off-peak trips to Ipswich and back, I must say they seemed to have gone a tad far with the extra time... They could easily shave off a minute Wacol-Darra with no problems at all. Couple other places could use a slight trim. During peak I would hesitate to cut time due to the extra loading, but off peak and weekends could be shaved a bit...

[justanotheruser]

Almost everyone else as they take time to muster courage to ask!

I'm not the asking type, I move the bag for them 

Bags should never go on the seats, because it gets dirt on the seats.

I would either move my bag or make it clear I'm happy to move it at every stop. When you stand on your feet all day you look for every chance to get a seat. Translink officers used to get annoyed with me when on football nights at milton they were telling everyone to move down the platform and I just stood still because I knew a door would open in front of me but didn't know where other doors stop. I just fall short of qualifying for disability. Give it about two years. So I value my seat.

[ozbob]

Parliament 14th June 2011  Ministerial Statements

http://www.parliament.qld.gov.au/view/legislativeAssembly/hansard/documents/2011.pdf/2011_06_14_DAILY.pdf

Public Transport, Timetables
Hon. A PALASZCZUK (Inala—ALP) (Minister for Transport and Multicultural Affairs) (10.21 am):
Last Monday this government unveiled the largest public transport timetable overhaul in more than 15
years. We added more than 200,000 weekly seats for customers on some of our busiest trains and
buses across the network, meeting our commitment to add more than 305,000 additional weekly seats
in the current financial year.
The 6 June package added 150,000 more weekly train seats, more reliability and more frequency
to the Caboolture, Ipswich, Rosewood, Richlands and north coast rail lines. Trains now run through
Roma Street and Central stations every three minutes during the busiest times. There are also more offpeak,
weekend and public holiday services.
Trains operate at least every 15 minutes between Darra and the city and four trains an hour
between Northgate and the city. TransLink has also added 50,000 seats per week to services and
adjusted times to ensure connections on more than 80 bus routes across South-East Queensland.

There have been high-frequency upgrades on route 120 to Upper Mount Gravatt and on route
196 between New Farm and Fairfield. There are additional services in the corridor between
Indooroopilly and the University of Queensland, and I know that the shadow minister for transport will be
very pleased with that announcement. There are also more services for Bray Park, Inala and Tennyson.
Queensland Rail and Translink are monitoring all services during the early stages of this timetable
rollout. I want to thank all members of the public and members here who have provided input and
feedback. We are only one week into such a large public transport change but the feedback from
customers has been both positive and constructive. TransLink and Queensland Rail will continue to
have even more helping hands staff out on public transport and at major stations this week as the
transition continues.

[Golliwog]

I still haven't seen many people on the 104 or 105's I've seen going through Boggo Rd. Probably also doesn't help that it appears on the timetable that they run at practically the same time.

On another note, I watched an Airport service start from Roma St this evening (around 6.20pm?) which came from Central into platform 7, did a crew change and was in service in 3 minutes. I hardly ever use Roma St but was just curious, did things like this used to happen under the old timetable?

[#Metro]

104s never have a great deal of people on them-- same deal when it was going to PA hospital.
105 still has the Yeronga loop- CUT!!!
108s are popular, but few...

[petey3801]

I still haven't seen many people on the 104 or 105's I've seen going through Boggo Rd. Probably also doesn't help that it appears on the timetable that they run at practically the same time.

On another note, I watched an Airport service start from Roma St this evening (around 6.20pm?) which came from Central into platform 7, did a crew change and was in service in 3 minutes. I hardly ever use Roma St but was just curious, did things like this used to happen under the old timetable?

Yes, Airport timetable hasn't changed, that has been happening for quite a while.

[somebody]

I still haven't seen many people on the 104 or 105's I've seen going through Boggo Rd. Probably also doesn't help that it appears on the timetable that they run at practically the same time.

On another note, I watched an Airport service start from Roma St this evening (around 6.20pm?) which came from Central into platform 7, did a crew change and was in service in 3 minutes. I hardly ever use Roma St but was just curious, did things like this used to happen under the old timetable?

Yes, Airport timetable hasn't changed, that has been happening for quite a while.

Timetable shows a 15 minute dwell (18:12 - 18:27).  I'm surprised this is done by a crew swap.  I'm also surprised this isn't done on platform #6, which through trains northbound proceeding on #7.  Would avoid a conflicting move.

[Golliwog]

Yeah, I knew the time hadn't changed, just wasn't sure if it was always formed that way or if it used to come from the exhibition loop or elsewhere. Simon, the Shorncliffe (?) train before the Airport train ran from platform 7 as well.

[petey3801]

Sorry, what I should have said is that service has generally always turned back off 7. Generally no crew swap (just change ends), generally with more than a 3-min dwell (something must have gone wrong and a turnback driver arranged).

Roma St Platform 7 is easiest platform to turn these types of trains back. Platform 4 and 5 are used for outbound, platform 6 and 7 for inbound, with 7 doubling up as a turnback for a small amount of services (basically just a few airports in peak). I prefer going into Platform 6 from the south, 7 has a much rougher approach from the south. Also, if needed, the train can run along the mains from 7, where it can't from 6.

[somebody]

Yeah, I knew the time hadn't changed, just wasn't sure if it was always formed that way or if it used to come from the exhibition loop or elsewhere. Simon, the Shorncliffe (?) train before the Airport train ran from platform 7 as well.

Timetable shows that leaving from platform #6.  Was the Shorncliffe train an IMU?  Perhaps they swapped it due to late running or some such.  It's possible that the train from the Airport didn't come from the Gold Coast, but was the 5:23pm arrival at the Airport.

Time for some consistency in the Gold Coast/Airport timetable.

Sorry, what I should have said is that service has generally always turned back off 7. Generally no crew swap (just change ends), generally with more than a 3-min dwell (something must have gone wrong and a turnback driver arranged).

Roma St Platform 7 is easiest platform to turn these types of trains back. Platform 4 and 5 are used for outbound, platform 6 and 7 for inbound, with 7 doubling up as a turnback for a small amount of services (basically just a few airports in peak). I prefer going into Platform 6 from the south, 7 has a much rougher approach from the south. Also, if needed, the train can run along the mains from 7, where it can't from 6.

While these may be valid reasons, they wouldn't convince CityRail to have a conflicting move.

[petey3801]

Yeah, I knew the time hadn't changed, just wasn't sure if it was always formed that way or if it used to come from the exhibition loop or elsewhere. Simon, the Shorncliffe (?) train before the Airport train ran from platform 7 as well.

Timetable shows that leaving from platform #6.  Was the Shorncliffe train an IMU?  Perhaps they swapped it due to late running or some such.  It's possible that the train from the Airport didn't come from the Gold Coast, but was the 5:23pm arrival at the Airport.

Time for some consistency in the Gold Coast/Airport timetable.

Sorry, what I should have said is that service has generally always turned back off 7. Generally no crew swap (just change ends), generally with more than a 3-min dwell (something must have gone wrong and a turnback driver arranged).

Roma St Platform 7 is easiest platform to turn these types of trains back. Platform 4 and 5 are used for outbound, platform 6 and 7 for inbound, with 7 doubling up as a turnback for a small amount of services (basically just a few airports in peak). I prefer going into Platform 6 from the south, 7 has a much rougher approach from the south. Also, if needed, the train can run along the mains from 7, where it can't from 6.

While these may be valid reasons, they wouldn't convince CityRail to have a conflicting move.

If it stays on the Suburban, there are no conflicting moves to be had. It is only taking up a counter-peak platform for a few extra minutes compared to a through train.

[ozbob]

Queensland Parliament  Private Members' Statements

http://www.parliament.qld.gov.au/view/legislativeAssembly/hansard/documents/2011.pdf/2011_06_15_DAILY.pdf

Caboolture, Public Transport
Ms MALE (Pine Rivers—ALP) (12.27 pm): Last week the new TransLink rail timetables for the
Caboolture line came into effect. The new timetable has added more than 70,000 weekly train seats to
the Caboolture and north coast line, and commuters have told me that the additional seats on the line
are welcome. As I have stated previously, there are no longer any express services operating out of
Lawnton, Bray Park or Strathpine stations, and some people are still unhappy about this. During
consultation some commuters said that they valued the express services whilst others were more
interested in reliable services running on time and services that were not held up waiting at stations. To
that end, more services are starting from Petrie, which means more available seating and reliable arrival
times.

The timetable is also simpler, which means the stopping patterns during peak hour will be either
six or 12 minutes apart instead of a whole range of times, with big breaks of anywhere up to 24 minutes.
As more capacity becomes available, the minister has assured me that services will be slotted into
three-minute intervals when they become available. Over the past couple of years I have successfully
lobbied for and delivered four additional peak-hour services, so I will continue my efforts in this regard.
Bus connectivity and improved bus timetables were issues I raised extensively with the minister,
so I am pleased to announce that an improved timetable for our area was introduced last week which
includes an additional 2,000 weekly bus seats connecting to Bray Park train station and the Westfield
shopping centre, which is just next to the Strathpine station. There are six additional weekday services
for Bray Park station and timetable adjustments to all other connecting bus services to connect to the
new train timetables.

At this stage I believe it is vital that TransLink does a review of how the new timetable is working.
I specifically want the issue of reliability, running times and availability of seating for Lawnton, Bray Park
and Strathpine commuters assessed. I believe it is vital for the integrity of the new timetable that these
issues are reviewed and reported on as soon as possible to ensure confidence in the services and to
encourage more people to use public transport options.

[somebody]

If it stays on the Suburban, there are no conflicting moves to be had. It is only taking up a counter-peak platform for a few extra minutes compared to a through train.

Incorrect (unless I'm mistaken).  The southbound train heading for #7 conflicts with northbound trains heading through #6.  That meets the definition of a conflicting move.  As do outbound Doomben trains with conflict with inbound Shorncliffe and Airport trains, outbound Airport trains which conflict with inbound Shorncliffe trains and inbound Cleveland trains which conflict with outbound Beenleigh and Gold Coast trains, in spite of sectorisation.

[mufreight]

If it stays on the Suburban, there are no conflicting moves to be had. It is only taking up a counter-peak platform for a few extra minutes compared to a through train.

Incorrect (unless I'm mistaken).  The southbound train heading for #7 conflicts with northbound trains heading through #6.  That meets the definition of a conflicting move.  As do outbound Doomben trains with conflict with inbound Shorncliffe and Airport trains, outbound Airport trains which conflict with inbound Shorncliffe trains and inbound Cleveland trains which conflict with outbound Beenleigh and Gold Coast trains, in spite of sectorisation.

Sectorisation is not the panacea for rail operations that many seem to think, the maximum utilisation of the current infrastructure is dependent on the skills and motivation of those operating the train control at Mayne.  Rather than bog them down with red tape and prevent them from taking steps to resolve problems when they actualy occour a better solution is to empower then to make the decisions needed to keep trains (and comuters ) moving.
The concerns about crossing conflicts have a valid basis but they are surmountable and are not the major problem that some posting on this site would lead many equaly less informed on the flexibility that is possible in train operations.
Many of the delays experienced on the system as a consequence of equipment failures could be minimised rather than as is the present situation exacerbated by the policy of better not make a decision, someone else can fix it, that currently paralyses train control.

[somebody]

That may be, but that doesn't justify unnecessary timetabled conflicting moves.

[petey3801]

If it stays on the Suburban, there are no conflicting moves to be had. It is only taking up a counter-peak platform for a few extra minutes compared to a through train.

Incorrect (unless I'm mistaken).  The southbound train heading for #7 conflicts with northbound trains heading through #6.  That meets the definition of a conflicting move.  As do outbound Doomben trains with conflict with inbound Shorncliffe and Airport trains, outbound Airport trains which conflict with inbound Shorncliffe trains and inbound Cleveland trains which conflict with outbound Beenleigh and Gold Coast trains, in spite of sectorisation.

Ah, sorry, had a brainfart there. Yes, the southbound train will cross northbound ex-6 trains. However, there isn't all that many other options, apart from run it quite a distance out from the city. Running into 2 or 3 means a conflicting move on the northbound run. Platforms 4 and 5 are uni-directional on the northbound end.

[somebody]

If it stays on the Suburban, there are no conflicting moves to be had. It is only taking up a counter-peak platform for a few extra minutes compared to a through train.

Incorrect (unless I'm mistaken).  The southbound train heading for #7 conflicts with northbound trains heading through #6.  That meets the definition of a conflicting move.  As do outbound Doomben trains with conflict with inbound Shorncliffe and Airport trains, outbound Airport trains which conflict with inbound Shorncliffe trains and inbound Cleveland trains which conflict with outbound Beenleigh and Gold Coast trains, in spite of sectorisation.

Ah, sorry, had a brainfart there. Yes, the southbound train will cross northbound ex-6 trains. However, there isn't all that many other options, apart from run it quite a distance out from the city. Running into 2 or 3 means a conflicting move on the northbound run. Platforms 4 and 5 are uni-directional on the northbound end.

There is the option of turning it around on #6, with through trains using #7.

[ozbob]

Twitter

QueenslandRail
From this morning, the 6:15am train from Caboolture will be increased from three carriages to six to ease crowding on the popular service.
12 minutes ago

[Zoiks]

Are there any reasons why it wasn't a 6 car in the first place? Lack of sets?
If it is the above, what would be the next service to be upgraded when the next 3 car set rolls off the line