Reducing conflicts on the Beenleigh line in the PM peak.

[somebody]

I have thought about an idea for reducing the conflicts on the Beenleigh line in the PM:

Inbound services use the third road until Coopers Plains.  Inbound Gold Coast trains (and express trains from Beenleigh, assuming they are added) can use the DG until Yeerongpilly.  Outbound Gold Coast trains can use the up main (i.e. Platform #1) all the way to Kuraby.  Beenleigh expresses and Kuraby trains should use the centre track (down main).  Still a conflicting move near Coopers Plains due to the ridiculous crossover arrangements there, but it does eliminate conflicts at South Brisbane and Kuraby.

Beenleigh all stations trains need to be removed from the timetable in peak - in both directions IMO.

[longboi]

How do intermediate stations get service if you eliminate all stoppers during peak 

[BrizCommuter]

I have thought about an idea for reducing the conflicts on the Beenleigh line in the PM:

Inbound services use the third road until Coopers Plains.  Inbound Gold Coast trains (and express trains from Beenleigh, assuming they are added) can use the DG until Yeerongpilly.  Outbound Gold Coast trains can use the up main (i.e. Platform #1) all the way to Kuraby.  Beenleigh expresses and Kuraby trains should use the centre track (down main).  Still a conflicting move near Coopers Plains due to the ridiculous crossover arrangements there, but it does eliminate conflicts at South Brisbane and Kuraby.

Beenleigh all stations trains need to be removed from the timetable in peak - in both directions IMO.

BrizCommuter predicts a two tier peak direction Beenleigh Line service in the next timetable revamp (Beenleigh expressish from Kuraby to City, Kuraby all stations). Might be completely wrong though.

[somebody]

How do intermediate stations get service if you eliminate all stoppers during peak 

Short workings.  In both directions.  It's better than the current practice where the Kuraby trains run counter peak out of service.

BrizCommuter predicts a two tier peak direction Beenleigh Line service in the next timetable revamp (Beenleigh expressish from Kuraby to City, Kuraby all stations). Might be completely wrong though.

It would be logical.

[longboi]

Short workings.  In both directions.  It's better than the current practice where the Kuraby trains run counter peak out of service.

Ah, right. And I'm guessing Beenleigh expresses would be all stops Kuraby - Beenleigh?

[somebody]

Short workings.  In both directions.  It's better than the current practice where the Kuraby trains run counter peak out of service.

Ah, right. And I'm guessing Beenleigh expresses would be all stops Kuraby - Beenleigh?

Of course.

[#Metro]

That sounds like a good idea.
All stops to Kuraby
and then Express to Kuraby and all stops thereafter.

What about post-CRR? I guess this will have to be reviewed...

[somebody]

That sounds like a good idea.
All stops to Kuraby
and then Express to Kuraby and all stops thereafter.

What about post-CRR? I guess this will have to be reviewed...

Around 1/3 of Beenleigh line patronage are from Kuraby-Holmview.  I don't count Beenleigh as these pax would use GC trains.  You need to serve enough stations to have half on the Beenleigh trains and half on the Kuraby trains, with a 15 minute frequency for each pattern.  As much as I think that load balancing is a lame exercise, it is required in this case.

Post CRR all timetables need to be reviewed, maybe excepting IPS-CAB.

[colinw]

Post CRR all timetables need to be reviewed, maybe excepting IPS-CAB.

So, some time around 2051 then, or never if Campbell Newman gets his way? 

[#Metro]

Around 1/3 of Beenleigh line patronage are from Kuraby-Holmview.  I don't count Beenleigh as these pax would use GC trains.  You need to serve enough stations to have half on the Beenleigh trains and half on the Kuraby trains, with a 15 minute frequency for each pattern.  As much as I think that load balancing is a lame exercise, it is required in this case.

Post CRR all timetables need to be reviewed, maybe excepting IPS-CAB.

The problems I have to using QR Passenger load figures in this 'projecting' way is the creation of a 2-tier Beenleigh line service (all stops to Kuraby) and (Express to Kuraby and then all stops to Beenleigh) is a major change to travel speeds and frequencies that is likely to draw in more passengers on the Kuraby-Beenleigh section which could significantly alter the loadings at stations. People might not be catching the train so much to the stations after Kuraby because of the slow speed and also low frequency.

If you change this, then you are going to impact the loadings. This is how the Gold Coast line operates- express past most stations and then start stopping after Beenleigh. Imagine for a moment if you tried to 'predict' demand using a load survey from an all stops Gold Coaster (stopping all Beenleigh stations and all Gold Coast stations, no express), you might see low demand on the Gold Coast section (because the service is so slow) and wrongly predict that 'it doesn't need an express service, hardly anyone uses it'.

[somebody]

Around 1/3 of Beenleigh line patronage are from Kuraby-Holmview.  I don't count Beenleigh as these pax would use GC trains.  You need to serve enough stations to have half on the Beenleigh trains and half on the Kuraby trains, with a 15 minute frequency for each pattern.  As much as I think that load balancing is a lame exercise, it is required in this case.

Post CRR all timetables need to be reviewed, maybe excepting IPS-CAB.

The problems I have to using QR Passenger load figures in this 'projecting' way is the creation of a 2-tier Beenleigh line service (all stops to Kuraby) and (Express to Kuraby and then all stops to Beenleigh) is a major change to travel speeds and frequencies that is likely to draw in more passengers on the Kuraby-Beenleigh section which could significantly alter the loadings at stations. People might not be catching the train so much to the stations after Kuraby because of the slow speed and also low frequency.

If you change this, then you are going to impact the loadings. This is how the Gold Coast line operates- express past most stations and then start stopping after Beenleigh. Imagine for a moment if you tried to 'predict' demand using a load survey from an all stops Gold Coaster (stopping all Beenleigh stations and all Gold Coast stations, no express), you might see low demand on the Gold Coast section (because the service is so slow) and wrongly predict that 'it doesn't need an express service, hardly anyone uses it'.

Good point there TT.  Which is an additional reason why we need CRR.

[colinw]

From what I have seen on the Beenleigh line between Dutton Park & Kuraby, I characterise the patronage as follows:

This is subjective (eyeball survey only), and mostly from offpeak/weekend use.  I'm ranking them from 1 (very busy) down to 5 (very quiet).

1 (Very Busy):  Yeronga, Altandi, Banoon, Sunnybank
2 (Busy):         Yeerongpilly, Fairfield
3 (Moderate):   Coopers Plains, Moorooka, Salisbury, Runcorn, Fruitgrove
4 (Quiet):        Dutton Park, Kuraby
5 (Very Quiet): Rocklea

The two clusters of 3 successive high use stations are Banoon to Altandi, and Fairfield to Yeerongpilly.  Lots of people getting on and off at these, with the four I have noted as "very busy" consistently having a lot of people boarding & alighting. If I get the train into the city on a weekend, it is generally quite empty at Kuraby.  A few people get on at Fruitgrove & Runcorn, then lots at Altandi, Sunnybank & Banoon.

Based on these I'd say that an all stations short working needs to go at least as far as Altandi to pick up the heaviest used stations on the first half of the Beenleigh line.  A short working to Coopers Plains would miss 3 of the busiest stations on the line. With the current infrastructure that means going to Kuraby.

[somebody]

Banoon is one of the stations missed by the peak expresses!  As is Yeronga.

A short working to Coopers Plains would miss 3 of the busiest stations on the line. With the current infrastructure that means going to Kuraby.

Do you mean and just live with slowing down the Gold Coast trains?

[somebody]

Based on these I'd say that an all stations short working needs to go at least as far as Altandi to pick up the heaviest used stations on the first half of the Beenleigh line.  A short working to Coopers Plains would miss 3 of the busiest stations on the line. With the current infrastructure that means going to Kuraby.

Altandi has the 130/140/139 buses so, off peak, I think we can live that one.  I agree that Sunnybank (which does have the 135 nearby), Banoon, Runcorn and Fruitgrove are issues.

However, I think my plan would be about the best outcome we would achieve in the short term.  One of the real benefits is that it has a real chance of adding a 15 minute frequency on Airtrain.

[colinw]

Banoon is one of the stations missed by the peak expresses!  As is Yeronga.

Yeah, Banoon seems to be an "overlooked" station. From what I have observed, in the offpeak and on weekends it is usually as busy as Sunnybank.

A short working to Coopers Plains would miss 3 of the busiest stations on the line. With the current infrastructure that means going to Kuraby.

Do you mean and just live with slowing down the Gold Coast trains?

That's a difficult one.  On the one hand we slow down an already painfully slow "express" run to Beenleigh.  On the other had, we save a few minutes on Gold Coast but cut at least 3 stations that - based on current usage - definitely deserve better than half hourly frequency.

I just thought I needed to point out that the next 3 stations beyond Coopers Plains are heavily used, and not including them in the 15 minute frequency seems wrong.

[colinw]

However, I think my plan would be about the best outcome we would achieve in the short term.  One of the real benefits is that it has a real chance of adding a 15 minute frequency on Airtrain.

If it leads to 15 minute Airtrain (and extended hours) then, emphatically yes.

But I think terminating at Coopers Plains should only be an interim measure until such time as infrastructure can be added to allow termination further out. Not necessarily Kuraby, it is a "nowhere" destination that only exists as an intermediate terminus because it was the end of double track.  Any extension of quarter hourly service beyond Coopers Plains needs to pick up Banoon, Sunnybank & Altandi.  Beyond that, Kuraby would be for operational purposes only, and ideally you would go right through to Loganlea or Beenleigh (possible to see Bethania being used, also for operational reasons).