Standard congestion scale

[Derwan]

We all complain about congestion on trains, but considering that we don't all travel on every line, it is difficult to compare congestion levels between lines and whether "my line is worse than others" is really true or not.

So here is our standard congestion scale.  Provided we're all honest and realistic (i.e. don't exaggerate) it should give us a fair comparison between lines.

0 - "No congestion" - there are vacant seats
1 - "Seats" - seats are full (or close to full) - there might be one or two people standing in the doorways
2 - "Doorways" - seats are full (or close to full) and there are a number of people are standing in the doorways due to a lack of seats
3 - "Aisles" - seats are full and people are standing in the doorway and down the aisles
4 - "Door-hopping" - people run to a different door to see if there are fewer people there.  Departing commuters struggle to exit the train.
5 - "No chance" - people don't even bother to try to get on the train - and wait for the next one.  People have to get off to allow departing commuters to exit.

The words in quotes are easy ways to remember what the triggers are for each level.  We can say at which station morning trains reach each level.  Perhaps we could even get QR to adopt it so we can provide feedback to them on actual levels rather than perceived ones.

[Mozz]

I like the idea.

Suggestion for level 2 - doorways - seats are full or close to full and there are at least 10 more people standing than seats available

Suggestion for level 4 - door hopping - people run to a different door to see if there are fewer people and departing commuters struggle to get to exit the train

[ozbob]

Neat!

I can see timetables being printed with the Derwan Scale in a column as a guide for the passengers!!

The 6.44am from Oxley (Mon to Fri) is typically about a 3 at Oxley, 4 by Taringa and nudges 4.8 by Milton!!

Very useful scale!  Thanks 

[mrciclismo]

Excellent idea!!! The scale then removes subjective interpretations of crowding.  It's a very scientific approach.

[Skeetbris]

This idea is a good one to compare how bad congestion really is on the trains, I can honestly say that at certain times of the day on the Cleveland line there can be anything from 0 to 5. I think that when a 3 car train turns up at 4.50 or so at South Brisbane it's a 5.
Maybe QR could adopt such a scale of congestion so that the transport planners at Translink can get a real idea from the real world and not pages of statistics on a computer screen. Great thinking, now all that's needed is for QR and even Brisbane Transport to use such an idea and be honest with the travelling public. 

[ozbob]

I caught the 6.11am service Oxley to Roma St this morning.  This service was approaching a solid 4 by time we left Milton!  There has been a very significant increase in loading for these early services over the past months.

[Derwan]

Suggestion for level 2 - doorways - seats are full or close to full and there are at least 10 more people standing than seats available

Suggestion for level 4 - door hopping - people run to a different door to see if there are fewer people and departing commuters struggle to get to exit the train

Apologies for not visiting the thread again and responding to the feedback.  I'm glad people like the idea.

On the suggestion for level 2, my original thoughts were based on not having to count (i.e. you could determine the level by just observing).  If there are a number of people standing in the doorways due to a lack of seats, it'd be considered level 2.  10 people standing in the carriage sounds like a good trigger, but once you start counting people, counting empty seats, finding the difference, etc, it gets a bit complicated.

Levels can be basic observations - and then people can quantify them if they want to (e.g. it was a level 2 with 8 people standing at each end of the carriage).

The suggestion for Level 4 sounds good - although some difficulty exiting could be experienced at level 3.

[Derwan]

I've edited the original post to what I think should be the "final" version.  Feel free to discuss further if you think we need to make changes.

[ozbob]

Thanks Derwan!  Looks great to me.

Cheers
Bob

[O_128]

This should be pushed to be put on timetables 7:13 doomben train [ex manly] was a steady 4.5 at cooparoo though there was a woman with a pram .

[mch]

At a 1974 Design Engineers presentation in Brisbane, visiting British engineers involved with London Rail development provided a simple definition of what they saw as overcrowding:
If passengers are required to stand for more than 20 minutes, then it is considered that the service is over crowded.
Since that time it appears that this has generally accepted as a basic benchmark.

There are other forms of overcrowding, but they all are extensions of this.

A second or worse form is where there are so many people standing, that passengers have to get off a train to allow others to get off and then get on.
This is bad for services because dwell times at stations are then affected and trains tend to get later due to cumulative delays at stations.  From observation, this can occur when there are approximately 710 to 715 passengers per six car train.

The third type of crowding is less defined as it relates to passenger comfort.
When crowding grows to the point where passengers become ill or feint is a further problem that is faced.  Often when this happens, the guard then becomes involved and further delays occur as help is often required from outside sources.

Obviously, QR should be looking at these last 2 even if purely from an operations point of view to reduce late running and impact on service performance.

The push for additional services in the peak periods should therefore be not only from passengers, but also from QR to show that they really are client focussed by providing services that truly meet their client?s needs.

[Golliwog]

Is there a version of this for buses too? Obviously door hopping and such doenst apply but theres still varying degrees of overcrowded.

0 - "No congestion" - There are vacant seats.
1 - "Seats" - Seats are full (or close to full) - there might be one or two people standing towards the front of the bus.
2 - "Front" - Seats are full (or close to full) and there are a number of people are standing at the front of the bus due to lack of seats.
3 - "Back Aisle" - Seats are full and people are standing up the front and down the aisle. Departing commuters have slight difficulty.
4 - "Shuffle" - Bus is all but full. Aisles have no space. Departing commuters struggle to exit. Some passengers trying to board may be left behind.
5 - "No chance" - Bus is totally overloaded and is set down only.

EDIT: Made some changes to the scale descriptions.

[#Metro]

The Golliwog Scale for buses!!! 
I like!

[WTN]

0 - "No congestion" - there are vacant seats
1 - "Seats" - seats are full (or close to full) - there might be one or two people standing towards the front of the bus
2 - "Front" - seats are full (or close to full) and there are a number of people are standing at the front of the bus due to lack of seats
3 - "Back Aisle" - seats are full and people are standing up the front and down the aisle.  Departing commuters have slight difficulty.
4 - "Shuffle" - Bus is all but full. Aisles have no space. Departing commuters struggle for long periods. Boarding commuters get left behind.
5 - "No chance" - Bus is totally overloaded and set down only (when bell is pressed)

Good ideas.  I've added my own comments to it.  In fact, I find it hard to fill all 6 levels.  There's not much difference between a 4 and a 5.

[Golliwog]

Yeah, I had that problem too. But I like your modifications.

[Gazza]

Quick question, but what number does it sit at on the congestion scale when you have both free seats, but people are standing anyway (often next to a vacant seat) because they are anti social or whatever.
This abnormal behaviour is a daily occurence on my daily commute.

[mufreight]

Quick question, but what number does it sit at on the congestion scale when you have both free seats, but people are standing anyway (often next to a vacant seat) because they are anti social or whatever.
This abnormal behaviour is a daily occurence on my daily commute.

Not what I would call abnormal more a quirk of human nature.   

[Golliwog]

I wouldn't bother counting or anything, but if by quick observation the number of people standing is roughly equal to (or less than) the number of spare seats, I'd call it a 1, if more then a 2. I'm assuming you couldn't get a 0 as if there were so many spare seats, they would just sit.