Gold Coast Light Rail

[Dean Quick]

Lets hope that the whinging minority don't spoil this great project.

[Gazza]

600 protesters versus 614 RBoT members 

I'm not sure how to start off a media release on this though...SurfRail seems more across it than I.

[SurfRail]

Gazza,

Not right now I'd say, no need to overcook it - main reason being that there should be some favourable press in the GCB tomorrow following on from our release on the Gold Coast CFN ...

I have tossed up putting together a detailed proof which refutes the various claims, but one of the things that has stopped me is the fact that it is happening no matter what people say.  I think we have better things to do like (a) work on things which are actually up in the air, like where the bus resources are going; and (b) (at least in my case) unwind after getting home from work at 8pm... 

[#Metro]

SurfRail, we can have a media release AND then release a more detailed document if you wish.
This is the problem I had with the CFN releases. There was just so much to write about, it became a .pdf document and was released as an attachment. You could do something similar, for instance, with claim in one column and response in the other column or something like that.

Don't limit yourself!

[colinw]

Fascinating end game playing out in the Bulletin at present, but unless I'm mistaken the momentum is FOR the project.

Articles on there at present:

1. Tate does triple somersault on light rail
2. Light rail halt 'catastrophic' for Coast
3. ROBINSON: Just get it built
4. Keith Douglas wants heavy rail link
5. Protest wants end to 'zombie' light rail
6. WILLOUGHBY: We need light rail delivered

[colinw]

SurfRail, you must have the patience of a saint having to deal with some of the nongs down your way. Words fail me! 

[SurfRail]

I've been advised the print edition of the GCB today features yours-truly, using the less than flattering photo from my last outing - I will get a copy up tomorrow.

[Jonno]

This was in a tweet about Califormia HSR but the opening few slides are totally applicable here. The BART one is amazing given its success!!

http://t.co/6dXTJPPW

[O_128]

Southport is basically done now, the bridge needs to be built and the tracked layer which won't take long at all.

The LNP gov will never cancel the project even if the GC council took out its funding, the project is a goer. 99.9% of the coast has realised what a massive benefit this will be and how lucky they are to be the first regional city to gain a transit system and the first city in the country to have a built from scratch "rapid transit system" These 600 protestors are just complete fools.

[colinw]

The Bulletin -> Light-rail haters resort to native title

Fascinating.  I just went to comment on this article and received a rejection saying my email address has been blocked. Given that I have not personally attacked anyone or said anything that would breach their terms of service, I can only assume that the Gold Coast Bulletin is now censoring pro light rail comments.   Given that some of the light rail haters have commented far more than I have, and have made comments of a personal nature, I am forced to assume a deliberate editorial policy is at play here. Well, it is News corporation. 

Not to worry, more than one webmail address, one of my alternates went through. Changing my apparent IP address is also no drama thanks to Tor

[SurfRail]

[O_128]

Surfrail, Having a legal background would this seriously be able to be cancelled? Surely the costs would be double to just building it. Also would the state gov allow it? They have said in opposition and in gov that they both support it.

And the next person to suggest a monorail I will ............

[#Metro]

Good work! Kicking goals!

Good to see the CFN being plugged too! 

[SurfRail]

Surfrail, Having a legal background would this seriously be able to be cancelled? Surely the costs would be double to just building it. Also would the state gov allow it? They have said in opposition and in gov that they both support it.

And the next person to suggest a monorail I will ............

My background is not in major projects, but I will say the following - any contract can be broken, and any project can be stopped mid-build.  Hence - Auckland's aborted trolleybus network, the Maldon-Dombarton rail link, Wollahra station on the ESR in Sydney etc.  So, we will keep the pressure on.

That said:
- Sovereign risk turns off investors big time.  Governments arbitrarily seeking to pull out of commercial deals is one of the big causes of it.  Killing this off will have a very negative impact on Queensland's reputation, just as NSW is now regarded as a dead zone for major projects.
- It has broad popular and political support from all sides despite all the noise being made.

A monorail could conceivably have been made to work - in fact a busway could have too - but I consider both to be sub-optimal outcomes given the money which would need to be spent anyway, and both alternatives would still have caused disruption during the build phase.

[SurfRail]

http://www.nbnnews.com.au/index.php/2012/04/12/calls-for-light-rail-to-stop-rejected-by-state-government/

http://www.nbnnews.com.au/index.php/2012/04/13/light-rail-centre-opens-in-surfers/ - video is not working for me so can't comment

http://www.nbnnews.com.au/index.php/2012/04/04/broadbeach-business-throw-support-behind-light-rail/

[colinw]

I consider this current fuss to be the endgame - the last ditch attempt by the naysayers to derail the thing. I am fairly confident that they are losing and that political and public support will carry the day.

[#Metro]

A monorail could have worked but would have access issues, pylons would take work to integrate (but can be done - monorail already operates in Broadbeach-Casino) but there would be major privacy issues having a PT carriageway up in residential towers...

[somebody]

any contract can be broken,

Surely that is only according to the provisions in the contract or the full value of the contract needs to be paid out.  Or do I just not understand contract law.

[ozbob]

From goldcoast.com.au click here!

Landmark building in CBD will have rail link

Landmark building in CBD will have rail link

  |  12:03am April 13, 2012

A PROMINENT commercial building sitting at the heart of Southport's emerging public transport hub is for sale.

The six-level property at 40 Nerang St, and formerly known as Ray White House, fronts the CBD's busiest intersection and stands opposite a future light rail station. It will be offered in a tenders campaign closing on May 17.

The property is being marketed by Wayne Devenport and Martin Trautmann of Ray White Commercial Gold Coast, which is part of the Ray White Surfers Paradise Group.

It is being sold by Corporate Land Holdings, linked to Wollongong developer David Arapali, which paid $8.25 million for the site in January, 2007.

RWSP director Greg Bell said the property was in one of the Coast's most strategic locations and would be at the centre of Southport's public transit precinct, thanks to changes brought about by the light rail project.

"This is a rare offering given the high strategic location of the building in the context of the future growth of Southport and indeed the Coast," said Mr Bell.

"We expect there will be very robust interest in the property as we look forward to the ongoing growth and development of the Southport CBD precinct with the rapid transit operation, and as the centre for the Commonwealth Games in 2018."

Mr Devenport said the building, on the corner of Nerang and Scarborough streets, not only had exposure to major passing traffic, but also a front-row seat to the thousands of commuters moving in and out of the CBD each day once the light rail is up and running.

"The taxi rank will be moved to the western end of the Nerang Mall just outside the building, while the Southport bus interchange will be across the road outside the police station and TAFE college," he said.

The building has a net lettable area of 2054sq m comprising 410sq m of retail space at ground level, topped by four floors of office space totalling 1644sq m.

The secure basement carpark holds 14 vehicles and is accessed along an easement just off Scarborough St.

Existing tenants include Ray White Southport, Lucky 7 convenience store, a hairdressing salon and an Asian restaurant.

Mr Trautmann said there was one retail vacancy of 126sq m which fronted Nerang Mall and would be ideal for an upmarket cafe or eatery.

The building sits next to Australia Fair Shopping Centre, opposite Gold Coast TAFE and close to the Southport court building and its surrounding legal precinct.

Mr Trautmann said with 696sq m of land, the property also represented an essential part of any future amalgamation for a major redevelopment at the western end of Nerang Mall.

"Its corner position combined with such a significant amount of commercial land makes it the anchor property for any such endeavour," he said.

"Considering this is the main intersection of Southport and is a strategic holding, being the key site to any future development along the mall to Scarborough St, 40 Nerang St is a standout property with all major foot and motor traffic passing close by."

Ray White has been in the building for more than 27 years.

[Gazza]

The problem with monorails is that they are low capacity, and to do a high capacity system (Say like the ones in Japan) then the beams are correspondingly bigger and emergency walkways are as big as say Skytrain or the DLR anyway.

Dunno where you get the idea Surfrail is anti LRT 

[BrizCommuter]

The problem with monorails is that they are low capacity, and to do a high capacity system (Say like the ones in Japan) then the beams are correspondingly bigger and emergency walkways are as big as say Skytrain or the DLR anyway.

Dunno where you get the idea Surfrail is anti LRT 

Another issue with monorail is as the technologies are proprietary, you are pretty much locked in with one manufacturer, forever. Ultimately this could cost $$$ over LRT, elevated LRT, and BRT where you can pick and choose manufacturers when it comes to upgrade time.

[Gazza]

That said, I reckon a Vancouver style light metro would have been awesome for the GC, but if the locals can't handle a thin set of masts and cables, for fear of "visual pollution" what hope would that have had?

[O_128]

The problem with monorails is that they are low capacity, and to do a high capacity system (Say like the ones in Japan) then the beams are correspondingly bigger and emergency walkways are as big as say Skytrain or the DLR anyway.

Dunno where you get the idea Surfrail is anti LRT 

Another issue with monorail is as the technologies are proprietary, you are pretty much locked in with one manufacturer, forever. Ultimately this could cost $$$ over LRT, elevated LRT, and BRT where you can pick and choose manufacturers when it comes to upgrade time.

Firstly where the hell were these people during the consultation stage? Secondly if you are going to argue for a different thing how about just elevated light rail?

IIRC Light rail was chosen as

1. the terrain couldn't support a metro, I think the soil was the wrong type.
2. Buses have less capacity and higher operating costs
3. Elevated structure caused visual and privacy problems.

The GCCC put in the least money so the state and feds would have no trouble filling that gap but these people don't realise that just because you cancel the project doesn't mean the money will be redirected. That will be it, it will easily cost 1.8 billion to compensate. And if the rumors are right arent the trams already being built??

[Gazza]

? Secondly if you are going to argue for a different thing how about just elevated light rail?

Needs drivers, metro doesn't 

Re the soil type, that was more about underground not being possible/ cost prohibitive.

I mean, I've got no problem with what they are proposing to build, and the order in which it is being done.
That said, I reckon people are a bit dismissive of the importance of the Heavy Rail connection....Yeah, its not necessarily about giving people from Brisbane easy access to the beach. Rather, people from Coomera etc deserve it.

[Gazza]

More fun posting here than on the Bulletin....
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Residents-And-Ratepayers-Association-Gold-Coast-RARA/119959921414041

[colinw]

Ha, Lex Bell's native title brain fart (Light-rail haters resort to native title) has been a massive own goal for the anti light rail mob. It has really stirred up public distaste for the whole anti light rail push. 

[colinw]

Gold Coast Bulletin -> Peter Young unveils 'vision' for Coast

MAYORAL candidate Peter Young has unveiled his vision for the Gold Coast and key elements include a new extension to the light rail, building a velodrome at Nerang and new tourist attractions.

Councillor Young is one of seven candidates vying for the top job and made his vision public yesterday.

"I want to talk about some of the key elements. This is not something I have thought up overnight -- they are very well thought-out plans," he said.

His plan includes the delivery of a new section of the light rail from Nerang train station past Metricon Stadium and over Chevron Island.

"The journey from Nerang to Surfers Paradise passes thorough hubs and takes less time than from Helensvale to Surfers Paradise," he said.

He said he wanted to see this and other rail sections -- including Helensvale to Griffith University and Broadbeach to the airport -- built before the Commonwealth Games.

"This is our opportunity. The Games is the line in the sand and we need to work it to our advantage."

Another part of his plan was to see the velodrome proposed for Brisbane for the Commonwealth Games built at Nerang.

"There is an issue with the cost of operating it.

"For the Olympics London is building a velodrome that has a natural airconditioning system ... there is no reason we can't."

That plan will become part of a larger policy to cash in on making sport a more prominent part of the city's economy and culture.

"Sport is huge and we can tie it in with the education system we have here," he said.

Cr Young also said new tourism infrastructure was fundamental to driving the economy in the northern regions of the Gold Coast.

He said the area around Jacobs Well could become a quaint village with B&Bs, food and prawn farms.

"It could become a food bowl and a tourism destination where people can go and spend money. We have to look at opportunities we can capitalise on and this is one," he said.

Finalising the Coomera Town Centre and attracting more theme parks and themed hotels to the region according to Cr Young would help the northern suburbs and attract families for holidays.

"I have spoken with Westfield ... We need this area activated and we need to unlock it. I am confident we can achieve a collaborative program to see this happen," he said.

Another part of his plan is seeing Springbrook have its own legislation to help implement a shared vision for the area.

SurfRail - any idea who the front runner for Mayor is?

[SurfRail]

I almost get the impression you are anti GC LR?

Problem with those cancelled projects mid stream is what did they cost to get absolutely nothing? M-D Railway end up costing more to cancel than complete. I understand why they made that decision, however the govt should have asked for a full cost cancellation first, they didn't. That  station on ES Line in Syd, again not much more money to complete it and it would be well used despite what the local whingers say/said. The Mary Dam cost something like $400m for zip. Things have moved on a bit these days and I don't think govts would normally cancel projects as willingly as they did 20 years ago.

The people making the noise are just point scoring on something they know they really cannot stop. 3 govts ave provided funding, LNP and Feds won't want to see their money wasted, especially Can-do. The contractor's lawyers ave probably sharpened their pencils in readyness just in case.

Exactly my point.  In case it was a bit oblique, what I was getting at was that no government is going to be stupid enough to cave in on something as big as GCRT - even though there have been some pretty spectacular backflips even during the build phase of some projects.  (I didn't even mention the Sydney Metro Authority!)

As for mono rail over such a distance, please "The Simpson's" got that episode right for a reason. Old futuristic technology that has never lived up to its claims.  Great for short distance lower density runs especailly like the one on the Gold Coast or theme parks. I don't agree with removal of one in Sydney, but this is a global trend.

Tend to agree, but there is no reason to suggest a monorail would not have "worked", just like a busway would also probably have "worked".  It just would have come with considerable disadvantages that LRT does not have (capacity issues, elevated stations, proprietary technology etc), and the system would probably hit capacity much sooner and end up being converted to LRT or something like it anyway.  This way we save money.  They've definitely picked the right option.

[SurfRail]

SurfRail - any idea who the front runner for Mayor is?

Wanting to avoid any suggestion of favoritism, the GCB polls had Young and Tate at around neck and neck with roughly 1/3 of the primary vote each.  The other 5 make up varying proportions of the other 1/3 and it would appear unlikely based on those numbers any of them would be successful.

The mayor is not really that important - if whoever it is can't get 8 of 14 councillors to agree to a policy platform then it all falls to bits like it has the last 8 years (in spite of which the system is being built as LRT which is a stupendous achievement)...

[BrizCommuter]

BrizCommuter goes surfing!
http://brizcommuter.blogspot.com.au/2012/04/gold-coast-rapid-transit-not-half-baked.html

[O_128]

BrizCommuter goes surfing!
http://brizcommuter.blogspot.com.au/2012/04/gold-coast-rapid-transit-not-half-baked.html

You hit the nail on the head regarding businesses, **** them, Not my problem that there stores are rubbish, they are even against the cavil mall renos, talk about short sighted.

[colinw]

BrizCommuter goes surfing!
http://brizcommuter.blogspot.com.au/2012/04/gold-coast-rapid-transit-not-half-baked.html

BrizCommuter, that post is GOLD!    A few home truths that needed to be told, even if the Paradise Waters Whingers are rather unlikely to be reading your blog.

[SurfRail]

I'd be very surprised if any more businesses go under than normal.  Surfers Paradise Traffic Management Scheme was only finished 6-7 years ago and is already a very distant memory.  This will take less time.

Most of Surfers Paradise depends on tourist foot traffic circulating around the entire suburb, not on massive numbers of people driving there - hence the huge number of touts, knack shops (and knocking shops...).  Exactly why things should pick up massively once the system is up and running.

[SurfRail]

More fun posting here than on the Bulletin....
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Residents-And-Ratepayers-Association-Gold-Coast-RARA/119959921414041

Gooby pls

[O_128]

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=293713514038680&set=a.144386902304676.36868.119959921414041&type=1&theater

This is gold, look at the demographic against it. Probably the same people who ripped up the original GC line

[HappyTrainGuy]

My god browsing some of those photos is a step back in time to the days of Windows 95. But then again the meeting photo sorta explains why.

[O_128]

My god browsing some of those photos is a step back in time to the days of Windows 95. But then again the meeting photo sorta explains why.

hope my comments don't offend them.

[HappyTrainGuy]

hope my comments don't offend them.

Personally I'd be more offended at the Boiling Point image 

WORDART YO!!!!

[Jonno]

I wonder how many of these people visit Melbourne on holidays and marvel at the easy and convience of travelling on the trams. Or used them in Vienne or Prague or......

[colinw]

The insanity continues. 

So, how do we get someone pro-LRT (Ozbob or SurfRail) in to see Caltabiano?

After attempting to comment on this, I can now confirm that the Bulletin has blocked comments from my primary email address.

The Gold Coast Bulletin -> Tate's lobbies Caltabiano to kill light rail

THE LNP State Government's newly appointed Director-General of Transport and Main Roads Michael Caltabiano has met with Gold Coast mayoral candidate and LNP member and donor Tom Tate prior to the city council election to discuss major projects.

At the meeting Mr Tate, who is opposed to the new light rail system, introduced the Director-General to key light rail protester Alan Midwood.

Mr Tate said he spoke to Mr Caltabiano about having a commission of audit into the light rail project to determine if it was technically or legally possible to stop or delay it. Mr Caltabiano said he made no commitment to this.

Transport Minister Scott Emerson last week said the State Government was committed to the light rail.

The meeting was despite the director-general role being apolitical and Premier Campbell Newman's policy of keeping out of council elections outside Brisbane.

Mr Caltabiano was on the Gold Coast on Monday to address the Australian Taxi Industry Association conference at the QT Hotel in Surfers Paradise.

Mr Tate called Mr Caltabiano and arranged to speak with him after the Director-General's address.

The pair denied it was inappropriate to meet, with Mr Tate saying he "played the civil engineer card, not the LNP card" while Mr Caltabiano said he would meet with anyone to discuss appropriate issues, regardless of whether they were a candidate or an LNP donor.

Mr Caltabiano said as Director-General of Transport and Main Roads he was happy to meet with anyone and it was irrelevant whether they were a candidate.

"It's our role as servants of the public to do exactly that," he said. "It's a very open and accessible department we're running here. The Minister has made it very clear that the works will be progressing."

He said Mr Tate called him to arrange the meet after it was revealed he would speak at the taxi industry conference and also arranged the meeting with Mr Midwood.

"(Mr Tate) facilitated access for him to talk to me," he said.

Mr Tate, who like Mr Caltabiano has a civil engineering degree, said it was that connection, not the LNP one, that secured the meeting.