Gold Coast Light Rail

[mufreight]

You'd be in the minority I believe.  IIRC, many on this forum at least would prefer the light rail extension to be fast tracked over the HR.  Even if HR improvements are done, the Coomera bridge duplication would be ahead of the extension.

If its cheap yeah do it, but otherwise costly bridge duplication is best left to last. Last thing you want is to have a new railway station delayed because money is diverted to a bridge thats not at capacity and barely impacts on the service. Quite common in other parts of world to have single bridges on duplicated track because their cost per metre of track is 10-1000 x more than normal track.

On the FG- GC airport route, you need to spend the money on a quad section near Coopers Plains and probably remove the last bit of single track on GC line first (apart from bridge and AP line). Then you have an open ticket to run 15min FG to Beenleigh and AP to GC trains for future extension.

But yes I'm thinking LR should be connected to HR first as well.

regards
Shane

The longer it is left to build the bridge the more costly it becomes in relative terms and any section of single track effects the reliability of services every bit as much as it effects possible frequency of service

[somebody]

Quite common in other parts of world to have single bridges on duplicated track because their cost per metre of track is 10-1000 x more than normal track.

I wonder how often this happens because the track was originally single and later most of the track was duplicated?

[SurfRail]

Indeed, even the GCRT line will have a temporary single track section in north Surfers each year during the [insert name of street motorsport event here].  The basic headway from day one will be every 7-8 min in each direction, and this small stretch can apparently cope with much higher volumes.

[Golliwog]

I'm just a little surprised that they didn't build the bridge with duplication in mind. Even out at Ferny Grove, when they went through on that wooden bridge replacement program I don't know how many years ago, they replaced the old wooden bridge between Samford Rd and Arbor St with a concrete one which was wide enough for 2 tracks. It has made the duplication currently underway much simpler in that area. Was the wooden bridge replacement program done before or after the Coomera River bridge?

[HappyTrainGuy]

After IIRC. Planning for the 8 bridges was in 94 with construction starting in 94-95 and opening in 96 for revenue traffic. Money from the Government would have been tight considering the extra tunnel through the CBD, various duplication-tripple-quad works, new CityTrain rollingstock, all Roma Street platforms getting rebuilt and massive coal line expansion all across Queensland through the 90's.

[ozbob]

I'm just a little surprised that they didn't build the bridge with duplication in mind. Even out at Ferny Grove, when they went through on that wooden bridge replacement program I don't know how many years ago, they replaced the old wooden bridge between Samford Rd and Arbor St with a concrete one which was wide enough for 2 tracks. It has made the duplication currently underway much simpler in that area. Was the wooden bridge replacement program done before or after the Coomera River bridge?

There are other examples on the western line as well, of some forward vision.  For example, the road overbridges Cliveden Avenue Corinda, 17 Mile Rocks Road Oxley, Cardiff Road Darra, when built were done in line for a future track amplification one day.  All they had to do when the track amplification Corinda - Darra was being constructed was clean out some dirt. Big savings.

[SurfRail]

I will be visiting the GoldlinQ shop-front at Australia Fair later today - will report back on some questions/concerns and with any other tidbits.

[Gazza]

I'm just a little surprised that they didn't build the bridge with duplication in mind. Even out at Ferny Grove, when they went through on that wooden bridge replacement program I don't know how many years ago, they replaced the old wooden bridge between Samford Rd and Arbor St with a concrete one which was wide enough for 2 tracks. It has made the duplication currently underway much simpler in that area. Was the wooden bridge replacement program done before or after the Coomera River bridge?

http://g.co/maps/ffvz8

The Helensvale Rd bridge was designed with duplication in mind at least.

[SurfRail]

Few things from today.

- KDR's modelling is such that they are confident they can run the proposed service levels with 12 trams, and that there is actually still room to ramp it up for events.  (1 tram will be rotated into maintenance, the other will be rotated through as an operational spare/replacement, leaving 12 from 14 on the road between 7am-7pm.)  The deal entered into makes it fairly easy for the government to simply buy and give them additional vehicles.

- There will be a Unimog type recovery vehicle equipped to tow dead trams back to base.

- No park'n'ride to be provided whatsoever.  (Previously I had thought there would be some at Wardoo St, but this is not happening as the station is now located in Queen Street on the western side of the Wardoo/Queen intersection.)

- The break-down between island and side platform stops is around 50-50.

- Single track operation around the Golden Gate/Marriott at GC600 time will last around 3 weeks per year at most.

- Bus network design is still in early stages and is largely a TTA responsibility.  They and GCCC will have some input.

- Station names are working names only for now (eg Southport South) and are to be finalised.  One in particular to be addressed will be the stop currently identified as "Gold Coast Hospital" in Nerang St, as the current hospital will no longer be in use as a hospital by the time the line opens in 2014.

- GCCC will be releasing its draft 2031 transport strategy shortly, which the team has already had presented to them.

- The route design has changed slightly around the depot site to become more direct.  There will be plenty of room to expand the depot when extensions occur, but until needed most of the site will remain a GCCC works depot.

- Most importantly, I now have a supply of GoldlinQ fridge magnets and stickers. 

Let me know if anybody wants any other specifics answered and I will take along a list of questions next time I go on past - perhaps even see if we can arrange a talk for anybody interested.  If anybody is in the area, the stand is staffed between 9am-5pm and is near the top of the travelators at the Fig Tree Food Court in Australia Fair.

[SurfRail]

http://www.goldcoast.com.au/article/2012/01/29/386045_gold-coast-news.html

Put moratorium on RTS project, says Bell

Matthew Killoran   |  January 29th, 2012

FORMER mayor and Surfers Paradise council candidate Lex Bell wants an immediate 12-month stop-work order on the Gold Coast Rapid Transit project.

The call comes despite the State Government predicting the project will create 6300 direct and indirect jobs during construction, which started more than 12 months ago.

Mr Bell said the loss of those jobs would be minimal compared to the potential loss of jobs as the construction tore up Surfers Paradise streets.

He said he did not know how much it would cost to get out of contracts with construction companies.

Empty shops and struggling business owners in Southport were enough to convince Mr Bell the project should be put on hold for 12 months so new studies could be done into the benefits of light rail.

"There may be some ultimate gains to real estate but there will be a ghost town in the meantime," he said.

Mr Bell said during his proposed project freeze he wanted a free bus service to run along the light rail route, stopping at its planned stations, to test its effectiveness.

He also wanted new studies done into the long-term benefits of the rail because "many people question the voracity of the original surveys".

While construction started in November 2010, Mr Bell denied his action was too late or delaying the inevitable.

"It's not delaying the inevitable because it could be put to future use finding a better solution."

Mr Bell is organising a protest rally to be held in Surfers Paradise next week to push for his plan, but details are yet to be confirmed.

Earlier this week state Transport Minister Annastacia Palaszczuk said she was aware of the pain businesses in Southport were feeling and project managers had taken steps to minimise disruptions.

"We can't afford not to build the rapid transit network," Ms Palaszczuk said.

"Traffic on Gold Coast roads is steadily increasing, especially in the growing coastal precincts."

Comments are revealing - a lot of people are starting to become accepting of it, or at least resigned to it being there, and understand it is coming and not going to magically stopped.  A short while ago the only ones in favour might have been Colin and "Rides2Work"!

Mr Bruce Whiteside in particular is being his usual self (apparently he has experience with the Christchurch trams and is not a fan of light rail in a practical sense, more a romantic one).  He is a crotchety old fellow with very strident views  known for fighting Japanese investment, being involved with the Pauline Hanson Support Movement etc and he and I have had words for each other about legal and constitutional matters - but at very least he knows how to write in sentences!

[O_128]

WHAT AN IDIOT.

These are the short sighted kind of people who are ruining this country. Short term pain for long term gain. There is only 2 years of construction left and lets be realistic a good business will thrive under any conditions.

I propose a counter rally that aims to ban this man from using the system when complete.

[mufreight]

There is a flaw in the manner in which this project is being carried out.
The closing off of large sections of the business area at one time for a more cost effective carrying out of project related works while overlooking the social costs of that method.
It would be possible to carry out the work by closing off shorter sections of the business precincts and completing each section in a shorter period of time instead of the present peicemeal approach over a large area.

[somebody]

WHAT AN IDIOT.

Concur.

It is surprising that this project is proceeding if it has so little public support.

[O_128]

WHAT AN IDIOT.

Concur.

It is surprising that this project is proceeding if it has so little public support.

TBH I wouldn't be surprised if this man is responsible for every single track line in the country with his thinking. Lets be real, half these businesses are rubbish and if they were good would not have an issue.

[SurfRail]

Lets be real, half these businesses are rubbish and if they were good would not have an issue.

It's more the prevailing economic climate.  Southport was bordering on a ghost town before the RTS works started anyway - go and have a walk around Southport Central for a good example.  It's like a much nicer version of the Ipswich CBD, with vacancies everywhere, but no (or at least fewer) ferals.

[O_128]

Lets be real, half these businesses are rubbish and if they were good would not have an issue.

It's more the prevailing economic climate.  Southport was bordering on a ghost town before the RTS works started anyway - go and have a walk around Southport Central for a good example.  It's like a much nicer version of the Ipswich CBD, with vacancies everywhere, but no (or at least fewer) ferals.

and think of the boost RTS will give southport when its complete. This man is pathetic. He's more interested in himself than the long term.

[ozbob]

From Gold Coast Bulletin click here!

Light rail tipped to be gravy train

Light rail tipped to be gravy train

Jessica Elder   |  06:27am February 7, 2012

MARKET-savvy developers and cashed-up investors are spending hundreds of millions of dollars snapping up properties along the Gold Coast's light rail route.

In the past four years dozens of commercial properties and vacant blocks have been bought along the rapid transit line from Southport to Broadbeach.

Six have approval for major projects, including two 44-storey highrises at Southport, a three-tower project at Surfers Paradise, a 52-storey highrise at Broadbeach and another 20-storey tower at Broadbeach.

City planning boss Ted Shepherd said the smart developers could see the potential of the light rail system to boost values and said he wanted the council to encourage more people to live and work along the route.

Stage one from Griffith University to Broadbeach, is scheduled to be finished late next year.

[Golliwog]

And will these developers be making any contribution to the cost of building the light rail?

[SurfRail]

And will these developers be making any contribution to the cost of building the light rail?

They don't need to. 

Council will end up making more money off of rates when the projects are delivered and sub-divided and housing larger numbers of residents and businesses, thus enabling it to recover its investment in the system enabling that growth.  The State Government will end up with more land tax receipts.  Rates and land tax are both based on (crudely speaking) unimproved site value, so if you subdivide a vacant lot into a 200-unit tower you end up with more "land" in the same footprint based on the floor area.

(Also, much as I hate stamp duty, it is still on the books, so they will also end up with larger transfer duty receipts as the relevant properties should be (a) more valuable by virtue of their proximity to the line and (b) when completed and subdivided, create a more plentiful supply of property sales.)

This is what the guys working on GCRT and CRR mean when they talk about "value add" or "land value capture".

Obviously individual developers have to stump up the money to get things built, and GCCC needs to be proactive in approving developments (hopefully the next council will not be as fundamentally useless as the current bunch), but light rail is an important catalyst, especially in a period where credit is tight and people need to assess carefully which project proceeds.

[Golliwog]

True. I must admit, I hadn't thought about all that. Do you know if such incomes for the council/government are included in the projects benefit/cost analysis? I would imagine it may be hard to do is all, seeing as just because the project is built, doesn't guarantee that the extra development will get approved and built.

[O_128]

For an average impact assessable unit block its around 15k plus $800 per unit. Plus rates etc and these towers make huge contributions. I know there are a lot of issues with GCCC but in my experience with them they have been very good. They slashed our application fees and offered to pay for certain licences etc.

[SurfRail]

For an average impact assessable unit block its around 15k plus $800 per unit. Plus rates etc and these towers make huge contributions. I know there are a lot of issues with GCCC but in my experience with them they have been very good. They slashed our application fees and offered to pay for certain licences etc.

Developers certainly pay headworks charges in spades, but that generally gets swallowed up with sewerage/road connections/parks etc.  At least on the GC, I'm pretty sure the only PT funding that Council tips in comes solely out of the City Transport Improvement Levy (on our rates notice it is $55.50 for the current half-year).

[Golliwog]

But what I meant with my question, is (for examples sake) say we wanted to turn the 385 BUZ into a light rail line. This would obviously be a stimulant to the growth of the suburbs it runs through, but as building the light rail line itself doesn't guarantee that any land development will happen (though makes it very likely and attractive) how does that get factored into the BCR of the LR project? Do they estimate it, or just leave it out?

[SurfRail]

But what I meant with my question, is (for examples sake) say we wanted to turn the 385 BUZ into a light rail line. This would obviously be a stimulant to the growth of the suburbs it runs through, but as building the light rail line itself doesn't guarantee that any land development will happen (though makes it very likely and attractive) how does that get factored into the BCR of the LR project? Do they estimate it, or just leave it out?

Beyond my ken, but I know they look at this stuff seriously and they do talk to industry.

[SurfRail]

WILLOUGHBY: Stop thinking small, Lex

Shannon Willoughby, chief reporter   |  12:01am February 9, 2012

OH, fair dinkum -- that's what the old man would say if he agreed with my sentiments on the light rail.

He might. I haven't asked.

If he did agree, he would also say that what Lex Bell is trying to achieve is the `biggest load of rubbish' he'd ever heard of. Maybe he wouldn't have used the word rubbish.

No offence, Mr Bell, but what are you doing? Rounding up votes to try and win Division Seven? Or just trying to stop the city from progressing?

Last week our former mayor came up with a plan for a year-long halt on the progress of the light rail through Surfers Paradise.

That is the worst idea I have heard in a long while ... except for maybe Council spending $33,000 on ping-pong tables.

The plan -- which hopefully will never see the light of day -- comes despite the State Government predicting the project will create 6300 direct and indirect jobs during construction, which started more than 12 months ago.

He wants it put on hold so more studies can be done.

More studies? Hasn't this had about a thousand feasibility studies already? Like, since 1998 or something?

That is symptomatic of the Gold Coast City Council. When they can't make a decision, they call for a new study

We don't need another ratepayer-funded study. We need infrastructure and development. Now.

We need the light rail to be finished 12 months ahead of time (wishful thinking), not 12 months behind.

And now on to the trees -- you know, the big trees in Surfers Paradise Boulevard?

If some of the traders cared as much about their neighbour's shopfronts as they did about the trees, maybe more locals would actually take the time to go to Surfers Paradise.

If some of the traders cared as much about good service and clean footpaths as they did about the trees, maybe Surfers Paradise wouldn't cop so much negativity.

GoldLinQ aren't out to destroy wildlife -- they need to move the trees to build the track.

They are working with an arborist -- you know, the people who work with the removal of trees for a living -- to make sure they are looked after.

They may also be replanted once the route is finished.

As Jenny Wong, a former developer of Surfers Paradise and one of the planters of the trees said, this is progress.

``It doesn't really matter because I am sure the Government can create something better,'' she said last week.

``If they are going, they are going. The world is changing.''

So while Mr Bell is talking to those who are opposing it, has he talked to the tourists who will eventually use it?

You know, the ones who will get of in Surfers Paradise and visit the shops, cafe and attractions?

Has he talked to the uni students at Griffith who struggle to get a park every day, who will eventually use it?

Has he talked to the businesses owners who actually think it will increase traffic to their store?

Has he talked to the hundreds of Gold Coast drivers who are just plain fed up with the ever-increasing Gold Coast traffic?

Toughen up, Gold Coast. This is painful for us all.

No one wants to deal with roadworks.

No one wants their businesses affected and no one wants to see the big trees killed.

No one wants to have their route disrupted, their streets closed off, their roads clogged, as drivers search for alternate routes.

But it is something we will all have to battle through for the greater good. And the work has started. Money has been committed. The light rail is not going anywhere.

While Mr Bell is entitled to respect thanks to his service as a councillor over a 16-year period, including four years as mayor, his views are now more suited to a small town.

We are no longer that -- we are the sixth biggest city in Australia.

For the record, my street entrance was closed for months as workers dug up the street and demolished nearby buildings.

The intersection near my home is crazy -- all the time.

The alternate road is the road I live on and that's also busy.

So I know firsthand how frustrating this is.

My drive to work is also affected.

And stage one doesn't go far enough south for me to be able to use it to enjoy a few wines with the old man.

But I still am all for it. I know it's hard, but it's time we think `big picture' about the Gold Coast

http://www.goldcoast.com.au/article/2012/02/09/388965_shannon-willoughby-opinion.html

Hallelujah!  Shannon has always been sensible on this topic.

[SurfRail]

Gold Coast's light rail on track for court

Ken Vernon   |  07:01am February 9, 2012

GRIEVANCES over the construction of the city's billion-dollar rapid transit system may soon be heard in court as a push to launch a class action gathers momentum.

Gold Coast lawyer Jeff Garrett said a class action against the State Government, the Gold Coast City Council and consortium GoldLinQ was "worth investigating" because business owners and residents in Southport and Surfers Paradise had been adversely affected during the building phase.
 
The comments come ahead of today's public meeting of Surfers Paradise business owners and residents to discuss the impact of the light rail system.

Mr Garrett stressed he did not have specific instructions and said any legal action would be hard to win, with compensation measures not built into the construction contracts.

GoldLinQ declined to comment.

http://www.goldcoast.com.au/article/2012/02/09/389131_gold-coast-news.html

I wouldn't discount the possibility this may happen.  If anybody is familiar with the history of the Eastern Suburbs Railway out to Bondi Junction, they would know that the council and various local groups were successful in obtaining an injunction to stop the works occurring at certain times, which led to massive cost increases and I believe was one of the major reasons why there is no Wollahra station on the line.

(It forms the background to a seminal case on contract law which dealt with cost issue, so anybody who has studied law might be familiar with it – State Rail Authority v Codelfa Constructions).

[Mr X]

Paul Posted  At 8:58am today
Lex Bell is not thinking small, all we want is for those Palm Trees to be saved, not torn out and never replaced. Just look at how bare it is in Southport where they have finished, all they have planted is grass. There is no reason why the trams can't run with the cars on Surfers Blvd. Save those palms.

Advocating class F ROW because of a lump of trees? For goodness sake!
Could I jump up and down and demand the buses from the Green Bridge go via TJ Memorial drive (impossible) because there were trees in Dutton Park pulled out in 2006? 

[verbatim9]

There should be a law when regarding major transport or other infrastructure projects excempting class action etc... Unless its life threatening. People already know about these projects via extensive community and environmental consultation. Mustering up a class action of loss of business is rubbish, when more business and jobs are created during and after the completion of phase 1 and 2 of the project.

[#Metro]

Advocating class F ROW because of a lump of trees? For goodness sake!
Could I jump up and down and demand the buses from the Green Bridge go via TJ Memorial drive (impossible) because there were trees in Dutton Park pulled out in 2006?  Roll Eyes

I know where to stick palm trees - plant them in the middle lanes of the Pacific Motorway. Then we will see how traffic flow works then eh?

Ridiculous. Class B ROW and Class A is what is needed. NOT class C.
The whole idea of Rapid Transit is to get out of congestion, not to sit in it. Palm Tree or no Palm Tree!

[SurfRail]

Meter maids plan protest against light rail

Paul Weston   |  11:46am February 9, 2012

SURFERS Paradise meter maids have vowed to chain themselves to trees lining the streets of Surfers Paradise to stop the $1.8 billion light rail going ahead.

The gold bikini promotion girls tweeted their intentions prior to a protest rally attended by more than 200 business owners and residents about 10am.

Meter maid Christine Palmer, 23, told The Bulletin: "It will definitely not be good for business, especially the little people in here.

"It's not good for us. We do (fill coins in) all the parking meters. There will be nowhere to park."

Asked if she and other girls would chain themselves to the palm trees to be bulldozed in Surfers Blvd, she replied: "It's a first-time experience, but it's good to be involved."

Former mayor and rally organiser Lex Bell, a lawyer and candidate for Surfers Paradise in the local government election, received overwhelming support when he called for the project to be stalled for 12 months.

Mr Bell said he and other opponents to the project would ask the State Government, council and developers for some time to devise another route which would not impact on businesses.

"The high number of people who attended today's rally testifies to the horror and fear of the Surfers Paradise business community at the thought of the main street being a construction site for up to 12 months," he said.

http://www.goldcoast.com.au/article/2012/02/09/389225_gold-coast-news.html

     

[Jonno]

I am 1000% sure that if the Boulevard was being widened to 6 lanes, Mr Bell and his cronies would be the first to be saying " it's progress". 

[O_128]

FFS, what route would you like? Out through some street where there are no local businesses?  This has got to stop, I propose the route go through mr Bells house. This system can carry tens of thousands of people an hour. The developers can see that why can't these idiots see that. THe route will be done in a year anyway GET OVER IT.


If this class action suit goes ahead I will be making a counter class action suit.

[Mr X]

 

[SurfRail]

I must say I feel surprisingly vindicated by the majority of the comments now appearing there.

People have clearly realised that this spate of recent publicity is largely tied to various local government candidates' political games, and that the best thing to do is suck it up and rip off the band-aid (ie get GoldlinQ and their contractors in and out as quickly as possible).

[#Metro]

Why can't meter maids top up Go Cards or hand them out.

Some creativity please.

[Mr X]

Selling candy to commuters?  

[O_128]

Why can't meter maids top up Go Cards or hand them out.

Some creativity please.

WHAT, your asking businesses to adjust to changing times !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! how very dare you.

[#Metro]

Just give them mobile go card top up readers. They can give directions blah blah.
Get them in the LRT vehicles. Whatever. They can ride the LRT all day.

Tram Babes or whatever...

[Stillwater]

It's the Gold Coast.  They have meter maids, have had for years - since the days when former GC mayor, Sir Bruce Small, used to sandwich himself between two busty beauties for an election poster photo bearing his campaign slogan: 'Think Big, Vote Small'.  With a little imagination, it should be easy to retrain the meter maids away from their car-centric focus towards a more PT application, if not a PC one.  In a salute to everything Gold Coast, their bikini tops should be modified to become go-card validators.  Place a 'go-card maid' at every light rail stop.  Swipe on, swipe off ... and watch patronage soar!

[Jonas Jade]

In a salute to everything Gold Coast, their bikini tops should be modified to become go-card validators.  Place a 'go-card maid' at every light rail stop.  Swipe on, swipe off ... and watch patronage soar!