Car parking - solutions?

[Jonno]

Blaming parking issues in these locations in a lack of Park n Rides is just mischievous.  These locations are
destinations. The problem is a reflection of the poor coverage, integration and frequency of PT.

[#Metro]

Blaming parking issues in these locations in a lack of Park n Rides is just mischievous.  These locations are
destinations. The problem is a reflection of the poor coverage, integration and frequency of PT.

Not everybody can catch a bus. And that will ALWAYS be true. It comes down to mobility- if the only thing in your area that is convenient
is a vehicle you drive yourself with four wheels to the train/bus station, then why not use that?

Bicycle and walking will be good for many, but those modes are extremely slow, which is a huge disadvantage.
The solution is to charge for parking at these places. Then using that money, improve the alternatives- buses, bicycles and so forth.

Something for everyone... anti-car does not automatically mean good PT. If we wanted to be so prescriptive, we would ban all motorised modes of transport
and force everyone to walk to work because "that's good" (obviously not, and certainly something I don't advocate for).

[Jonno]

TT think about the locations discussed. They have some of the best PT accessibility in our City.  Think!

[#Metro]

TT think about the locations discussed. They have some of the best PT accessibility in our City.  Think!

Generally I frown upon advocating for parking within 15 minutes of the CBD (measured under congested conditions).
However, even in inner city areas (back of Toowong, Rainworth, bits of Bardon) there still can be huge
issues with PT access. Are you really going to ride your bicycle around places like that with all the hills? Really?

A bus route can't penetrate into many areas, and even if we tried, it would take ages to make a lot
of these coverage routes and they may not be economical to run. Bicycle may not be appropriate for everyone either.

The key is to charge for the parking. It may even be possible to charge more for the parking as it is closer to the CBD (think Toowong).
This keeps people with viable alternatives out of the carpark, keeps people with
no alternative a car space and also generates cash in the process to pay for buses and so forth.

Any other solution requires the charity of government to dispense its funds, and under a situation where money
is tight, that is very unfavorable. Even 'feeder bus everywhere' isn't the only solution, only a partial one, designing
and funding all those routes (where will the money come from) will not only take forever but needs $$$ source.

[#Metro]

http://resources1.news.com.au/images/2011/11/09/1226190/540133-bcc-parking-fines-revenue.jpg

This is the revenue from fines alone- I don't have the time to dig into the BCC budget but look how much they get
from parking fines alone! Imagine how much you could get by CHARGING for it at full train stations and so on. Use that money
to provide the feeder buses and more bicycle racks of higher quality and so forth.

Cash supply right there!

[Jonno]

It is just time and effort spent in the wrong solution.  If our PT service is not up to
Scratch then fix the problem not the symptom.

[ozbob]

Media release 9 December 2011

SEQ: Parking pressures around stations? More of the same is the wrong answer.

RAIL Back On Track (http://backontrack.org) a web based community support group for rail and public transport and an advocate for public transport passengers has said there has been plenty of controversy in the media about parking shortages at train stations, and fines subsequently being dished out when cars overflow into the streets and park illegally.

What is the solution?

RAIL Back On Track Member Gavin Seipelt said:

"In our outer areas, Park n' Ride can be a handy solution for where it may be too far to walk or cycle to the station, or where it is difficult to give full coverage with buses."

"However this is not the case for the inner suburbs of Brisbane. The concentration of jobs and population within the inner 10km means it is entirely possible to blanket the area with a comprehensive grid of frequent public transport, within walking distance of all homes. The fact people drive to station says there are gaps in coverage, frequency and operation hours that people are being forced to compensate for, by forced car usage."

"RAIL Back On Track  believes that building parking stations near inner city transport hubs is an expensive, short term solution, and will never cater to the long term projected goals of tripling public transport usage, unless of course we just keep building bigger and bigger car parks.
When the usage of many train stations is measured in the thousands, you can see how attempting to provide this many parking bays, at every station, is absurd."

"A better long term solution of connecting buses can readily be ramped up over time as public transport loads increase, and solves the problem for good."

"Buses can be readily deployed as feeders to funnel passengers into the rail network (1).
Unfortunately this is done in  very limited manner in Brisbane, or has been done poorly, resulting in missed connections and long waits when changing from one vehicle to the next."

"Thoughtful co-ordination of the network is the key, not thoughtlessly building car parks."

Reference:

1.  Car parking - solutions?  http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=532.0

Contacts:

Gavin Seipelt
RAIL Back On Track Member

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

[ozbob]

Couriermail --> Stolen parking spaces cause carpark rage as tensions run high during Christmas shopping

[DayboroStation]

Imposing a parking levy on passengers wishing to park at railway stations will simply discourage people from using public transport, and result in more car usage. This will result in more road congestion and inner-city parking.

In recent years train fares have become unacceptably high, and adding an additional parking levy would just make it financially unviable for many passengers.

We should be encouraging more train usage by putting in the appropriate infrastructure, including adequate car parking spaces, especially in the outer suburbs. It would not be necessary to provide additional parking in the inner city if adequate parking were provided in the outer suburbs. For example, virtually all of the parking spaces at stations along the Caboolture line are full by 7:30am. Dakabin Station is one of the worst examples of poor parking infrastructure, with only 22 parking spaces (not to mention the station being unmanned).

A couple of questions: If adequate parking was provided at outer suburban stations, would this (1) Ease the AM peak hour commute by letting passengers start at a time that is not conditional on them obtaining a parking space? and (2) Reduce the number of inner-city parkers, along with the inner-city traffic congestion?

[Gazza]

Couriermail --> Stolen parking spaces cause carpark rage as tensions run high during Christmas shopping

Lucky Indooroopilly is a few train stops away, so I don't need to park for Christmas shopping.

Problem, Drivers?

[Gazza]

Generally I frown upon advocating for parking within 15 minutes of the CBD (measured under congested conditions).
However, even in inner city areas (back of Toowong, Rainworth, bits of Bardon) there still can be huge
issues with PT access. Are you really going to ride your bicycle around places like that with all the hills? Really?

But at the same time, getting a bus between the annoying bits of Toowong, and Toowong Station would be a nice short run, and would co-ordinate really well with the CBD bound services, because Toowong is a choke point where everything naturally converges.
More short run, high frequency routes should be possible.

Not sure why Rainworth and Bardon are examples anyway, its a bus based area.

The way I see it, you'd have a BUZ down:
-Baroona and Boundary
-Caxton and Latrobe
-Waterworks Rd (Already done)

That puts basically everyone within walking distance of a BUZ.

Perhaps someone in Kennedy Tce, Bardon, would be in annoying spot (600-700m from BUZ). But why actually BUILD a park and ride?
The nature of bus stops is that they are spread out and don't concentrate people like a station does. People could be lazy and drive that distance, and kind of just park in a side street off the BUZ route. There are so many side streets, and so few houses in the 'annoying spot' anyway, that its not an imposition.

(Note with the bikes and hills, perhaps this is where people could buy an electric bike/electric assist bike rather than struggling)

[#Metro]

Imposing a parking levy on passengers wishing to park at railway stations will simply discourage people from using public transport, and result in more car usage. This will result in more road congestion and inner-city parking.

Disagree. We only need to look at Perth and Toronto to see that the sky hasn't fallen in and that it works.
It would also be silly for a person to drive to the CBD and pay $10 parking in the CBD to avoid $2 parking at a station.

It is easy to say things need to be done, but without a funding source, it becomes unfavorable to do.

People just don't want to pay. Inner city parking is charged for too.

[#Metro]

But at the same time, getting a bus between the annoying bits of Toowong, and Toowong Station would be a nice short run, and would co-ordinate really well with the CBD bound services, because Toowong is a choke point where everything naturally converges.
More short run, high frequency routes should be possible.

Not sure why Rainworth and Bardon are examples anyway, its a bus based area.

The way I see it, you'd have a BUZ down:
-Baroona and Boundary
-Caxton and Latrobe
-Waterworks Rd (Already done)

That puts basically everyone within walking distance of a BUZ.

Perhaps someone in Kennedy Tce, Bardon, would be in annoying spot (600-700m from BUZ). But why actually BUILD a park and ride?
The nature of bus stops is that they are spread out and don't concentrate people like a station does. People could be lazy and drive that distance, and kind of just park in a side street off the BUZ route. There are so many side streets, and so few houses in the 'annoying spot' anyway, that its not an imposition.

(Note with the bikes and hills, perhaps this is where people could buy an electric bike/electric assist bike rather than struggling)

People move towards benefits and away from disbenefits. A bus service will usually be a slower access mode than a car will, so there is a time penalty on that access mode in favour of car, of around 10 minutes. What this means is that if there isn't a park, people will drive. The problem isn't that nobody will use it, the problem is that so many people will want to use it that there is spillover that upsets the local residents. So there is demand.

Yes we could BUZ everything, but I think that would take a very very long time. The closest city to doing this (with topography to match) would be Toronto but even in that city there are areas were the buses do not penetrate. In a mobility centered approach we should not care so much about whether a person arrives by bicycle, on foot, on a bus, by taxi, or by car. We should care that there are options for everyone. It is not simple as as feeder bus "good" vs carpark "bad" vs bicycle. Yes feeders can be fixed up, but we need a source of cash for that plus we need to cater to people who don't want to or can't use that access mode.

I don't have an objection to parking so long as people pay the cost associated with it. Private companies have no problem building car parks in the CBD or around it and happily charging $10 - $20 and making profit on top of that. And yet when this is suggested as a funding source for PT or a PT access mode people scream because it involves the vehicle with four wheels and exhaust pipe.

There are many areas around stations where road space already exists and all that would be required is spray paint and signs and a parking meter to allot that space.

[somebody]

One obvious solution in one part of Brisbane would be to extend the 222 to the Chandler park 'n' ride.  That will help enormously when Carindale implements paid parking (or have they already?).

[ozbob]

From the Brisbanetimes click here!

Christmas shoppers' added stress

Christmas shoppers' added stress
Ellen Lutton
December 11, 2011

PAID parking at Chermside, after expiry of a time limit, may have made it easier to find a vacant parking space but, in the lead-up to Christmas, it is causing big headaches for shoppers and staff.

Customers who fail to finish their shopping within the free, three-hour window, as well as centre staff who pay to park at their workplace, say they are under increased stress.

Shopping-centre owner Westfield introduced paid parking at Queensland's largest shopping centre two months ago, despite a huge protest from retailers and customers.

Parking rates range from $2 for 3½ hours to $20 for more than seven hours. Parking is free for any shopper who stays less than three hours but, according to those who made it out in time last week, the "incredible stress" is "not worth it".

"Just having to keep an eye on the time is a massive pain, I hate it," Grange resident Maria Reggi said. ''I only come here because of the shops and the variety, but I try to stay under the three hours.

"Obviously at Christmas time, that's really difficult to do. You can't even stop and have a cup of coffee any more. Not happy at all, we're going to Brookside where they have free parking."

A Westfield spokesperson said centre management was getting positive letters every day from shoppers happy with the new system.

"[The letters are] expressing that the new managed parking system, including the parking guidance system and Queensland's first valet service, has improved their parking experience and they are returning to Chermside," the spokesperson said.

"Before introducing managed parking, the average customer time was 101 minutes, and 96 per cent of customers shopped [in] under three hours. It is expected, with the introduction of managed parking, that the vast majority will continue to not pay for parking.''

Some customers admitted it had become easier to find parking at Chermside but complained of the time-limit pressure. Cheryl McMurtrie of Bridgeman Downs said she had arrived mid-morning and had no trouble finding a car space.

"I come during the day and there's plenty of parking, but I do have to pay for it, which I hate," she said.

"I went to the hairdresser. That took longer than three hours. If you're coming for a quick shop, the concept is good, but if you're coming for a half or full day to do Christmas shopping, it's a costly exercise."

One elderly couple did not have time to answer questions because they were running to their car to get out in time. "It's horrible, absolutely horrible," they said.

Isabella Reggi, who is employed as a casual staff member in the centre, said it was "obvious" people hated being there with a time restriction. "[Speaking] as staff working in the centre, customers are so riled up about it and it's staff who pay the price," she said.

"We might be trying to gift-wrap something and the customer is there saying, 'Hurry up. I've only got five minutes left.' It's really stressful. Everyone walking around the centre is stressed because they're on a time limit,'' Ms Reggi said.

"People don't need extra stress at this time of the year when Christmas shopping is already so hard."

Food retailers who spoke to The Sun-Herald said business was down. "Our takings are noticeably down and there's no doubt it's because of the paid parking," one man said.

[#Metro]

"Obviously at Christmas time, that's really difficult to do. You can't even stop and have a cup of coffee any more. Not happy at all, we're going to Brookside where they have free parking."

They say that they will shop at Brookside, and yet they are in Chermside. They say they can't stop for a coffee but they coffee actually costs more than $2...

Don't you just love people...

[Jonno]

http://www.globest.com/news/12_238/newyork/retail/-316347.html

URBAN RETAILERS CALL FOR MORE TRANSIT, LESS PARKING

NEW YORK CITY-As retailers continue to weave suburban concepts into the urban fabric, more brands—and big-boxes—are going vertical. But as the pendulum swings in favor of transit-oriented development, the nation's top retailers agreed that the need for mass transportation is beginning to outweigh the need for traditional parking design, according to speakers during day two of the International Council of Shopping Centers' 2011 New York National Conference & Deal Making event. The convention closed out at the Sheraton New York and Hilton New York Hotels on Tuesday afternoon, where total attendance exceeded 6,000 each day.

During the general session, much of the discussion revolved around the challenges retailers face, running the gamut from site selection, obtaining local approvals, expansion concerns and store formats. The panelists also addressed the paradigm shift of retailers like wholesale clubs and supermarkets—two concepts borne out of the suburbs—that are finding equal strength in cities, especially near subway and bus lines.

"If we could be close to mass transit, it could be absolutely critical," said Patrick Smith, vice president of real estate at BJ's Wholesale Club, an operator of 192 clubs and 107 gas stations across 15 states. Smith explained that despite the bulk-quality of BJs merchandise, more city customers are taking the train to its stores. "More people are using mass transit and some people walk," he said, noting that its parking garage at Bronx Terminal Market is vastly underutilized. "For a BJ's customer, you may think that is absolutely ridiculous. We never expected people to use mass transit to shop at a wholesale club."

The same goes for Michael J. Shanahan, vice president of real estate at Burlington Coat Factory, who said mass transit is "absolutely a requirement" when selecting an urban location. "When we opened at Rego Park I this last September, we are right off the subway stop," he said, explaining that while the store opening started off slow, momentum began to build as foot traffic increased by the E, M and R trains. "We got the word on the street to get people up to the third floor."

And while mass transit is reducing the need for the amount of parking, Daniel Shallit, director of real estate for the Northeast Region at the Sports Authority, said parking cannot be totally eliminated from the retail model. "Looking at the Philadelphias of the world or the Bostons or other large urban markets, we still need it," he said, noting that parking changes would affect store sizes. "The logic is, if you buy a treadmill at a Sports Authority, you can't take that on a bus or a train. You need a car or you need some way to access a car to get that product home."

Using New York City as an example, Shallit said its Manhattan locations sell less hard goods (like weights and fitness equipment) and more soft goods (like clothing and shoes) due its ease of transport on a bus or train. "But we still want to be close to mass transit because it builds awareness," he said. "The more people that see us by commuting know that we are there and that's really, really important to us."

Supermarkets are also facing similar issues. Dennis P. Bachman, senior real estate representative for Wakefern Food Corp., said a large food shop could be difficult to do on a typical train or bus. "Cabs have certainly become a much more important factor," he said. "Typically in a city store, especially if you have a lot of customers who would use mass transit, you would tend to have higher customer counts, greater shopping frequency and a lower average order size, so the per trip spend would be less, which adds some additional complications to the business.  Learning to handle those additional customers, staffing levels and things like that, parking is still an important criteria."

But some food retailers are paring back on parking altogether. G. Lamont Blackstone, principal of Mount Vernon, NY-based GL Blackstone & Associates, LLC, worked on the development and leasing of Harlem's largest Pathmark store. After battling over the normal requirement of parking spaces versus the constraints of the development plot, Blackstone put in 2.3 cars per 1,000 people, lower than the industry standard of five per 1,000. "We are blessed that we live in a democracy, but sometimes there are inherent tensions between the vetting and the public input requirements, particularly as it relates to land use decisions of urban democracies versus the execution of requirements for urban developers and urban retailers," he said. "That's why it is critically important for developers from day one right out the gate that they put the best face forward on their projects in order to minimize the potential issues that will come down the pike."

And due the large expense parking garages can bring, Larry Rose, principal, RK Realty Advisors, explained that urban retailers must understand their demographics before making an investment. Where parking at Bronx Terminal Market averages at 20% utilization, more shoppers are filling up spaces at Sky View Center in Flushing, Queens, where more residents own a vehicle. "Even though the site is at the end of the 7 line, half the people are driving and are beyond where mass transit is," he said.

Peter Ripka, partner at Ripco Real Estate, a retail firm serving New York City, Long Island, New Jersey, Westchester County and Lower Connecticut, explained that all forms of transportation play into what makes a site successful or not. Using its Target-anchored Sayville-Patchogue shopping center as an example Ripka said the property is centrally located on a major Long Island thoroughfare, Sunrise Highway. "People can easily come from long distances to those shopping centers, and mass transportation does the same thing in the urban environment," he said. "People are able to come from a large area, and therefore, parking is not as necessary."

While public transportation has become the "lifeline" for projects to happen, urban consumers should have choices, said panel moderator Ken Narva, co-founder and managing partner of White Plains, NY-based Street Works. "If you provide 30 teaser parking spaces at grade, that can make a store successful," he said. "It is the same thing that on-street parking plays, which is the quality of the space, the sense of convenience and the sense of activity."

But overall, Narva said the future of CRE investment is urban. "We live in an experience culture, and downtown is an experience where people interact with each other, and that experience is very important and is not going away," he said. "As electronic retailing continues to grow, consumers still need to get out and interface with each other."

Hmmm Meanwhile we are making free car parking a human right.

[somebody]

Very interesting Jonno.  I've been wondering why shopping centres aren't keener on PT for this very reason.  It seems that in NY they are keen.

[O_128]

"Obviously at Christmas time, that's really difficult to do. You can't even stop and have a cup of coffee any more. Not happy at all, we're going to Brookside where they have free parking."

They say that they will shop at Brookside, and yet they are in Chermside. They say they can't stop for a coffee but they coffee actually costs more than $2...

Don't you just love people...

This is just how pathetic some people are, My local IGA only has 10 parking spaces, by these peoples reasoning there would only be 10 people in there at any one time yet it is always busy. Westfield sydney has ZERO parking but is always packed. Its these kind of people who think that parking is a god given right and go out of there way to avoid paying for it.

It's about time westfield put there foot down and did it with there other centres aswell, people I know who actually want to go to shop are reporting how much easier it is to get a park because there arent hundreds of elderly people loitering around.

[somebody]

Westfield Sydney?  Do you mean the one with Centrepoint?

[Golliwog]

The whole trolley thing doesn't help people use alternative modes to access shops either. Last I heard, some places either have, or are looking at introducing wheel locks that are activated when you cross a boundary line around the outside of the parking lot. What about those who do the weeks shop with the idea of walking it home? I've done it, then walked the trolley back to the shops, but if the wheels locked this would be impossible. For the record, the trolley I was using did have one of those coin locks that Aldi is introducing where you have to put in a gold coin to unlock it from the chain.

[ozbob]

A certain supermarket has wheel locks on shopping trolleys at Inala.  Once the boundary of the car park is reached one wheel is locked.

Folks just continue to drag them along, although it is a bit more difficult to take them a long way up the street etc.

[Golliwog]

A certain supermarket has wheel locks on shopping trolleys at Inala.  Once the boundary of the car park is reached one wheel is locked.

Folks just continue to drag them along, although it is a bit more difficult to take them a long way up the street etc.

It's bloody ridiculous! I for one would make a complaint to management. I get why they do it as otherwise there is the risk of teens/bogans pinching them and either keeping them or ditching them in creeks, etc (I've seen a few like that around Keperra). However I think the coin lock would be more successful as you want your money back. Though the local Aldi has failed with it, the Great Western has both a Woolies and an Aldi, and while Aldi have the coin locks, the Woolies ones are free to use. All the Aldi trolley collection bays in the parking lot (even those far away from Woolies, but adjacent to Aldi) seem to only have Woolies trollies in them.

[achiruel]

I wonder what part frequency plays in the parking issue.

My elderly parents live in Caboolture but when they wanted to go to the city or RBWH, would drive to Chermside and catch a bus in.  Reason: frequency.  Every 30 minutes from Morayfield Station (closer to them than Caboolture) vs every 7.5 minutes (average combined 330+333+340) from Chermside.  Also had a lot of trouble finding car parks at the station and live too far to walk, and didn't want to use the bus to station as there was a 23 minute wait.

I'm guessing they won't do it since introduction of paid parking @ Chermside though - infrequent travellers to city/RBWH (maybe 2-3 times per year for medical appointments etc).  Funny thing is, they used to often shop there before or after their other appointments, spending a couple of hundred dollars each time.  I know it's not much but I think Chermside has alienated a lot of people like this, a couple of thousand at say $500 spending a year is $100,000, could be more.

[Gazza]

DisagrEe, nobody should be taking trollies off property. That's not part of the deal.

If you need to get stuff home, why not buy your own shopping buggy?

[ozbob]

From Couriermail Quest click here!

Council moves to prevent paid parking

Council moves to prevent paid parking

   by: Katie Duncan, Albert & Logan News
   From: Quest Newspapers
   December 13, 2011 12:00AM

Logan City Council planners are looking into ways to prevent paid parking being introduced at shopping centres in Logan, amid fears centres will start charging to free up spaces.

Major retailer Westfield has introduced paid parking at its Chermside centre in an effort to stop commuters using centre parks, but so far no Logan retailer has indicated it will follow suit.

Logan City councillors voted to have the strategy and planning manager investigate the possibility of implementing a temporary local planning law to stop shopping centre owners from charging for parking.

They also voted to inform Translink that adequate parking at bus interchanges was required.

Browns Plains Grand Plaza shopping centre manager Katrina Warren said the centre had 2500 car spaces and  a bus interchange.

"Grand Plaza shopping centre has no immediate plans to introduce paid parking, however it  recommends commuters make use of the "park `n' ride'' facilities provided by council to assist the centre in managing parking congestion issues,'' she said.

Logan Hyperdome centre manager Rob Mansfield said the centre had more than 4000 parks and there were "currently no plans to introduce charges for parking''.

"We are aware, however, that the Queensland Transport commuter car park adjacent to the centre often reaches full capacity during the week,'' he said. ``This facility is separate to the hyperdome and is not managed by the centre.''

A Department of Transport and Main Roads spokesman said the department encouraged residents to catch public transport directly from their homes where possible.

"If people need to drive to public transport, there are plenty of options. We already have more than 2200 parking spaces at 13 locations in the area with more being considered,'' he said.

"Introducing paid parking at shopping centres has nothing to do with commuters. It is a commercial decision  by   centre owners.

"If they were really concerned about commuter parking, they would only charge for people who park all day  and not on weekends.

"People who park and ride at shopping centres regularly use the shops to do their evening groceries, or buy a coffee or simply do some window shopping.''

A Department of Transport and Main Roads spokesman said the department encouraged residents to catch public transport directly from their homes where possible.

LOL  Quote of the year!

[Mr X]

^^ LOL

A certain supermarket has wheel locks on shopping trolleys at Inala.  Once the boundary of the car park is reached one wheel is locked.

Folks just continue to drag them along, although it is a bit more difficult to take them a long way up the street etc.

My sister lives near Robina Town Centre, around 300m away via a public path. Once leaving the centre, a big sign says "NO TROLLEY BEYOND THIS POINT" and of course people dump their trolleys there, but really if we're doing a big shop we can't just carry it all and aren't prepared to drive (which could defeat the purpose of a pedestrian oriented area AND is slower than walking) so we just take it along, take our shopping up and return it.
I know trolleys can be expensive to replace, I think the $1 fee works, where if you return it you get your $ back.

[Stillwater]

Classic understatement: "A Department of Transport and Main Roads spokesman said the department encouraged residents to catch public transport directly from their homes where possible."  Where possible, indeed.

It is amazing how people can organise themselves if given the means.  Constantly, we now look to government to solve all problems, which they do by taxing everyone to provide the solution and then introduce a layer of bureaucracy to administer it.  In business these days, the efficiency dividend is obtained by removing middle management and adopting a flatter management structure.

Governments should look to providing community buses to smaller communities crying out for better public transport.  An existing entity, such as a chamber of commerce, could be the sponsoring and adminstrative agency; working in partnership with the local authority.  Bus provided by government, community group organises rosters of volunteer drivers (suitably trained) and pays fuel / insurance costs through fares; local government picks up the tab for vehicle maintenance as part of its council fleet management services.  The council may also have to provide bus stop poles and shelters.

Areas targetted would be where a bus service falls just short of the point where Translink may become interested in starting up a new bus service, or where commercial bus services are not provided, or are not commercially viable.  To illustrate, a community bus service (running where and when as the community sees fit) could operate within a geographic zone (Logan Village, Dayboro, Rosewood) and provide services to / from town, also feeding into train networks or the extremities of Translink bus runs.

[#Metro]

Madness!

Mandatory free parking. Unbelieveable!

No point catching a bus when a free carpark awaits you at the other end.

[Gazza]

^^ LOL

A certain supermarket has wheel locks on shopping trolleys at Inala.  Once the boundary of the car park is reached one wheel is locked.

Folks just continue to drag them along, although it is a bit more difficult to take them a long way up the street etc.

My sister lives near Robina Town Centre, around 300m away via a public path. Once leaving the centre, a big sign says "NO TROLLEY BEYOND THIS POINT" and of course people dump their trolleys there, but really if we're doing a big shop we can't just carry it all and aren't prepared to drive (which could defeat the purpose of a pedestrian oriented area AND is slower than walking) so we just take it along, take our shopping up and return it.
I know trolleys can be expensive to replace, I think the $1 fee works, where if you return it you get your $ back.

Like I said, you can get a folding shopping buggy.

[QRIG]

I currently drive from Riverhills to Woolloongabba for work and deal with the $8/day parking + fuel + maintenance only due to the convenience of getting home 40mins earlier than I would catching a 66 to Roma Street and then an Ipswich train. Obviously its quicker in the morning for PT, but the evenings are a pain.

However I have toyed with the idea of parking the car in a free zone somewhere closer to work, and then hop on the bike to get the rest of the way. Only problem is that there are no shower facilities in the vicinity, so I doubt the work colleagues would enjoy a shower-in-a-can.

[O_128]

I currently drive from Riverhills to Woolloongabba for work and deal with the $8/day parking + fuel + maintenance only due to the convenience of getting home 40mins earlier than I would catching a 66 to Roma Street and then an Ipswich train. Obviously its quicker in the morning for PT, but the evenings are a pain.

However I have toyed with the idea of parking the car in a free zone somewhere closer to work, and then hop on the bike to get the rest of the way. Only problem is that there are no shower facilities in the vicinity, so I doubt the work colleagues would enjoy a shower-in-a-can.

Random question QRIG but if CRR was built would you be more inclined to get the train. I find people are much happier to do a train/train or bus/bus transfer than an intermodal shift.

[Mr X]

^^ LOL

A certain supermarket has wheel locks on shopping trolleys at Inala.  Once the boundary of the car park is reached one wheel is locked.

Folks just continue to drag them along, although it is a bit more difficult to take them a long way up the street etc.

My sister lives near Robina Town Centre, around 300m away via a public path. Once leaving the centre, a big sign says "NO TROLLEY BEYOND THIS POINT" and of course people dump their trolleys there, but really if we're doing a big shop we can't just carry it all and aren't prepared to drive (which could defeat the purpose of a pedestrian oriented area AND is slower than walking) so we just take it along, take our shopping up and return it.
I know trolleys can be expensive to replace, I think the $1 fee works, where if you return it you get your $ back.

Like I said, you can get a folding shopping buggy.

For an entire trolley?? =\ repacking for 200M is dumb!
Some centre managements should be a little bit less strict on where their trolleys are taken. What's next, GPS activated alarms??

[Gazza]

Repacking for 200m? What on earth do you mean?

You go to the check out, they scan and bag your stuff. Once in bags it normally goes back into the trolley for the trip out to the car park (lol or trip outside the car park in the situation we are discussing)
What I'm saying is at this point, you'd put your bagged groceries into the buggy instead.

And if youre at Aldi, for their checkout process, youd park the buggy in that angled spot by the cashier where the trolley normally parks in, and would put your stuff straight into the buggy instead.

How is this extra work?
How is it any more difficult?
Get a grip.

And yes they should be strict with trollies, because people can't be trusted, or else we wouldn't be seeing coin locks and wheel locks. People often don't return them.

[Mr X]

^^ ever tried to successfully pack an entire trolley worth of stuff into one? I have and it is a massive pain. There have issues with some stuff not fitting (eg large boxes), trying to make sure it isn't lopsided etc. Trolleys are so much easier.
Businesses need more faith in humans and not to tarnish everyone with the same brush by assuming their intention is to steal the trolley. By being gung ho about stopping people walking home with a trolley and going back to return it (with wheel locks etc) you're basically encouraging these people to get in their cars and drive, which is counter productive.

[Mr X]

Random question QRIG but if CRR was built would you be more inclined to get the train. I find people are much happier to do a train/train or bus/bus transfer than an intermodal shift.

Most people hate changing modes because the transfer facilities in a lot of cases are so crap (eg. Indooroopilly). The only good places where this integration is seamless are Roma Street, South Bank and Park Road.

[HappyTrainGuy]

Carseldine has a good interchange to the 340.... 100m walk to the 335... do any other buses go past there

[somebody]

Random question QRIG but if CRR was built would you be more inclined to get the train. I find people are much happier to do a train/train or bus/bus transfer than an intermodal shift.

Most people hate changing modes because the transfer facilities in a lot of cases are so crap (eg. Indooroopilly). The only good places where this integration is seamless are Roma Street, South Bank and Park Road.

I think it's a bit of a stretch to call South Bank "good", but it's OK from platforms 2/3.  I don't like the effort much re: Platform 1.

[Golliwog]

Random question QRIG but if CRR was built would you be more inclined to get the train. I find people are much happier to do a train/train or bus/bus transfer than an intermodal shift.

Most people hate changing modes because the transfer facilities in a lot of cases are so crap (eg. Indooroopilly). The only good places where this integration is seamless are Roma Street, South Bank and Park Road.

I think it's a bit of a stretch to call South Bank "good", but it's OK from platforms 2/3.  I don't like the effort much re: Platform 1.

Platform 1 is no different to Platforms 2 and 3 though. Before the Boggo Rd busway was built, I used to change to the 109 at South Bank (from an ex-Ferny Grove service). Interchanging at South Bank is just as easy as at Park Rd. The only thing I could suggest would be to paint a pedestrian crossing between the busway and railway stations at South Bank. Other than that it's fine.

[somebody]

Try it in the rain!