Car parking - solutions?

[#Metro]

Is this really as bad a problem as it is being made out to be? So the street has cars parked in it? So what?
Are they a danger? A hazard? There seems to be enough space there for the cars, so long as its not blocking
residents' driveways or obstructing traffic I don't really see what the issue is with overflow.

[ozbob]

Is this really as bad a problem as it is being made out to be? So the street has cars parked in it? So what?
Are they a danger? A hazard? There seems to be enough space there for the cars, so long as its not blocking
residents' driveways or obstructing traffic I don't really see what the issue is with overflow.

That street now has yellow lines / restricted (2 hr) parking on one side. Has made a huge difference to flow and the quality of life of local residents.  Same day commuter parking is there, but nothing like it was.

It is an old photograph ...

[Golliwog]

The problem was it was obstructing traffic to a degree. With cars parked on both sides, the only place you could pass a car going the opposite direction was if someone pulled off and temporarily blocked a driveway while the other car passed. Much easier to negotiate now.

[Gazza]

Indeed, that photo is deceptive. The road was slightly less than 4 cars wide, so with cars parked on both sides the events Golliwog described would happen.

Now it has parking on one side, then it switches, with parking on the other. They should have cut it short by one bay at the switching point, because it means there is a little bottleneck in the middle of the street.

[Jonno]

The problem was it was obstructing traffic to a degree. With cars parked on both sides, the only place you could pass a car going the opposite direction was if someone pulled off and temporarily blocked a driveway while the other car passed. Much easier to negotiate now.

Such narrow roads don't seem to be noticed in Cophenhagen, Munich, Vienna, Prague, etc.  Have we become so addicted to our car that having to stop for another is seen as a infringement on our human rights.  Time we got over ourselves as a society. We are a bunch of spoiled brats
ave we

[dwb]

The problem was it was obstructing traffic to a degree. With cars parked on both sides, the only place you could pass a car going the opposite direction was if someone pulled off and temporarily blocked a driveway while the other car passed. Much easier to negotiate now.

Such narrow roads don't seem to be noticed in Cophenhagen, Munich, Vienna, Prague, etc.  Have we become so addicted to our car that having to stop for another is seen as a infringement on our human rights.  Time we got over ourselves as a society. We are a bunch of spoiled brats
ave we

+1 jonno

[Mozz]

As an Oxley resident who lives close to the station and has had similar traffic mitigation put in place, I can offer additional perspective. Only part of the traffic chaos which is unregulated parking adjacent to train stations. The more significant issue is that of local resident amenity.

In unregulated streets adjacent to stations, commuters travelling by cars do indeed regularly park over driveways, they do park out the street so that residents experience difficulty and indeed encounter less than optimal conditions in terms of entry and egress from their properties and traversing their local street/s should they choose to drive, or cycle or walk (particularly if pushing a pram).

In the unregulated street environment residents have difficulty driving in and out of their driveways with limited street view visibility and in many cases, a vehicle parked on the opposite side of the road to their driveway which causes further complications, also rubbish bin collection days can be a nightmare and visitors who arrive by car are unable to access on street parking anywhere close to their homes.

Regulated parking has worked well in my street however the BCC are regularly in the street handing out parking fines to those commuters who fail to read the 3 hour parking only signs Mon-Fri (most people now realise you can't park against a yellow line).

[O_128]

As an Oxley resident who lives close to the station and has had similar traffic mitigation put in place, I can offer additional perspective. Only part of the traffic chaos which is unregulated parking adjacent to train stations. The more significant issue is that of local resident amenity.

In unregulated streets adjacent to stations, commuters travelling by cars do indeed regularly park over driveways, they do park out the street so that residents experience difficulty and indeed encounter less than optimal conditions in terms of entry and egress from their properties and traversing their local street/s should they choose to drive, or cycle or walk (particularly if pushing a pram).

In the unregulated street environment residents have difficulty driving in and out of their driveways with limited street view visibility and in many cases, a vehicle parked on the opposite side of the road to their driveway which causes further complications, also rubbish bin collection days can be a nightmare and visitors who arrive by car are unable to access on street parking anywhere close to their homes.

Regulated parking has worked well in my street however the BCC are regularly in the street handing out parking fines to those commuters who fail to read the 3 hour parking only signs Mon-Fri (most people now realise you can't park against a yellow line).

I completely understand what you are saying, but in europe people will just deal with it. Half the problem stems from people needing the biggest possible car they can get and poor driving skills.

[dwb]

As an Oxley resident who lives close to the station and has had similar traffic mitigation put in place, I can offer additional perspective. Only part of the traffic chaos which is unregulated parking adjacent to train stations. The more significant issue is that of local resident amenity.

In unregulated streets adjacent to stations, commuters travelling by cars do indeed regularly park over driveways, they do park out the street so that residents experience difficulty and indeed encounter less than optimal conditions in terms of entry and egress from their properties and traversing their local street/s should they choose to drive, or cycle or walk (particularly if pushing a pram).

In the unregulated street environment residents have difficulty driving in and out of their driveways with limited street view visibility and in many cases, a vehicle parked on the opposite side of the road to their driveway which causes further complications, also rubbish bin collection days can be a nightmare and visitors who arrive by car are unable to access on street parking anywhere close to their homes.

Regulated parking has worked well in my street however the BCC are regularly in the street handing out parking fines to those commuters who fail to read the 3 hour parking only signs Mon-Fri (most people now realise you can't park against a yellow line).

You don't own the street, other users have just as much right irrespective of their destination.

[ozbob]

You don't own the street, other users have just as much right irrespective of their destination.

They have in many cases lost their right because of road rage behaviours, blocking access into residents houses and businesses and in some cases causing rubbish bins not to be emptied (access by trucks blocked).   The single most issue of complaint to BCC is car parking.  Councils will respond and have actually struck a balance, which allows for reasonable parking but residents are not negatively impacted as they were.

[dwb]

You don't own the street, other users have just as much right irrespective of their destination.

They have in many cases lost their right because of road rage behaviours, blocking access into residents houses and businesses and in some cases causing rubbish bins not to be emptied (access by trucks blocked).   The single most issue of complaint to BCC is car parking.  Councils will respond and have actually struck a balance, which allows for reasonable parking but residents are not negatively impacted as they were.

I'm not saying not to deal with issues such as:
-illegal parking over drive ways
-rage behaviours

All I'm saying is that this is a community resource, land owners do NOT own the land in front of their house and they DO NOT have and SHOULD NOT EXPECT exclusive access to it.

[HappyTrainGuy]

They may not own the street but the council has a duty to maintain and enable access to the properties.

[#Metro]

All I'm saying is that this is a community resource, land owners do NOT own the land in front of their house and they DO NOT have and SHOULD NOT EXPECT exclusive access to it.

I agree with dwb. Naturally of course, we want people to park in the other street, not ours, but when we need to get to the train, we want to park
anywhere we like...

I can't see why access can't be maintained AND people can park in the street as they need to. What needs to happen is designated parking pays- can of spray paint and signs- to fix that.

FAILURE TO CHARGE FOR PARKING is one of the causes of this mess. Charging for street parking space would mean that $$$ would be available for footpath, bicycle improvements in that area plus money to paint lines and put up signs.

[Gazza]

Re the European example, the narrow streets you speak of don't have driveways.

The solution at Oxley now is a good one. Balanced.

[Mozz]

Regulated parking where parking is out of control has long been a way of life in Australia. Parking meters, loading zones, clearways, fines for non compliance. Before 2006/7 there were no real problems with on street parking adjacent to Oxley station. Oil prices spike and commuter patronage spikes and on street parking quickly becomes a local community issue for all the reasons outlined in previous posts. As an active member of the local community I believe that the community does have a stake in how out of control on street parking is managed. BCC obviously saw there were issues and have regulated parking in the local streets adjacent to the station. Commuters are still able to park (according to signage etc), residents are happy, it's a win win.  It's not a new paradigm. in the railway carpark there are marked bays, but people are able to and sometimes park in other areas, sometimes safely, sometimes not however this behaviour can attract a fine or possible towing, this is now what occurs in the local adjacent streets. I can't say that I have spoken to anyone in the local Oxley community who has expressed a desire to exclusive ownership of the footpath or land on the street outside their house. My street used to have up to 20 or so cars parking out the street both sides causing the issues listed in previous posts, we now have 14 marked bays for all day parking and 3 hour limits Mon - Fri daytime and it works well.

[dwb]

I'm for regulation, not against, but under the principle that the road is a public asset.

Council is strongly reticent to regulate all areas, I'm not quite sure why.

[Jonno]

Re the European example, the narrow streets you speak of don't have driveways.

That says it all!!!

[ozbob]

From the Couriermail Quest click here!

Motorists reject fees

Motorists reject fees

    by: Alex Strachan, South-East Advertiser
    From: Quest Newspapers
    November 18, 2011 12:00AM

COUNCILLOR for Morningside Shayne Sutton says customers have voted with their cars and are avoiding parking at 204 Oxford St since the introduction of paid parking at the centre.

As revealed by the South-East Advertiser, the shopping centre has started charging customers up to $4.40 an hour to park, a decision which has sparked angry debate among local shoppers and drawn the ire of Cr Sutton.

The owner of 204 Oxford St, Margaret Allan, defended the scheme, which she said was designed to reserve parking spaces for genuine customers.

She said the Balmoral Cinemas introduced paid parking to Oxford St 10 years ago.

"If paid parking was so appalling, then why has Cr Sutton not approached the media on behalf of the electorate to protest against the cinemas' paid parking?" she said.

"Parking and traffic has been a problem within the area for a long time ... we have taken positive action to address a chronic parking issue in the area."

Ms Allan challenged Cr Sutton to "fix" the parking problems which were affecting the area.

Cr Sutton acknowledged Oxford St had parking and traffic problems but said paid parking only made the problem worse.

"Most people don't want to pay for parking, this will only see an increase in demand (in other areas of Oxford St)," she said.

"I've had a number of developers who have wanted a relaxation to have less parking than what's required and I've universally said 'no'."

[Jonno]

Ah my Local Councillor stuck in the 1960s. 

[SteelPan]

Better quality carparks (ie multi story)
Consider paid parking - free train ride option!

:conf

[SteelPan]

.....

Isn't this a great photo?  Cars in gridlock next to the train!
Do the trains look familar??
Photograph from West Australian

Ozbob, any interesting thought is with the SE Busway - we could one day, see something like this, at least with light rail taking over from buses!    :conf

[#Metro]

Ozbob, any interesting thought is with the SE Busway - we could one day, see something like this, at least with light rail taking over from buses!

The current busway carries up to ~ 12 000 pphd  (plus a lot of air) in peak hour. Upgrading to LRT would only add an additional 5000 pphd or so over and above BRT, (tops for LRT in Class A is around 20 000 - 25 000 pphd) although it may be more economical to do so labour wise. And this is when the LRT system is running like a metro.

A metro service on the other hand could double busway capacity (30 000 - 40 000 pphd) and free up a lot of labour for the suburban runs during peak hour and simplify the network significantly. Toronto is a model of this feeder and transfer approach with the Yonge-University-Spadina line carrying 30 000 pphd in peak (it is being upgraded to carry more) with 98% of buses connecting to a TTC subway station. Subway trains operate frequently all day, running every 5-6 minutes or so all day until about 1 am.

This is the kind of network and solution that I would like to see for the SE Busway. Automatic, high capacity, high frequency all day. Once that is in place, you can massively boost bus services in the suburbs to be super frequent (every 10 minutes or so) as feeder services.

[SteelPan]

Ozbob, any interesting thought is with the SE Busway - we could one day, see something like this, at least with light rail taking over from buses!

The current busway carries up to ~ 12 000 pphd  (plus a lot of air) in peak hour. Upgrading to LRT would only add an additional 5000 pphd or so over and above BRT, (tops for LRT in Class A is around 20 000 - 25 000 pphd) although it may be more economical to do so labour wise. And this is when the LRT system is running like a metro.

A metro service on the other hand could double busway capacity (30 000 - 40 000 pphd) and free up a lot of labour for the suburban runs during peak hour and simplify the network significantly. Toronto is a model of this feeder and transfer approach with the Yonge-University-Spadina line carrying 30 000 pphd in peak (it is being upgraded to carry more) with 98% of buses connecting to a TTC subway station. Subway trains operate frequently all day, running every 5-6 minutes or so all day until about 1 am.

This is the kind of network and solution that I would like to see for the SE Busway. Automatic, high capacity, high frequency all day. Once that is in place, you can massively boost bus services in the suburbs to be super frequent (every 10 minutes or so) as feeder services.

+++++ 111111 from me - let's do it!  (   sadly, the powers that be will scratch around for the next 10yrs - at least)

[dwb]

Ozbob, any interesting thought is with the SE Busway - we could one day, see something like this, at least with light rail taking over from buses!

The current busway carries up to ~ 12 000 pphd  (plus a lot of air) in peak hour. Upgrading to LRT would only add an additional 5000 pphd or so over and above BRT, (tops for LRT in Class A is around 20 000 - 25 000 pphd) although it may be more economical to do so labour wise. And this is when the LRT system is running like a metro.

A metro service on the other hand could double busway capacity (30 000 - 40 000 pphd) and free up a lot of labour for the suburban runs during peak hour and simplify the network significantly. Toronto is a model of this feeder and transfer approach with the Yonge-University-Spadina line carrying 30 000 pphd in peak (it is being upgraded to carry more) with 98% of buses connecting to a TTC subway station. Subway trains operate frequently all day, running every 5-6 minutes or so all day until about 1 am.

This is the kind of network and solution that I would like to see for the SE Busway. Automatic, high capacity, high frequency all day. Once that is in place, you can massively boost bus services in the suburbs to be super frequent (every 10 minutes or so) as feeder services.

+++++ 111111 from me - let's do it!  (   sadly, the powers that be will scratch around for the next 10yrs - at least)

One really wonders why the northern busway was not built all at once straight up as metro rail....

[Set in train]

A friend has moved and Oxley station is their closest station. I took them around on tour of the area to orientate themselves and show them that quarter hourly train services are possible.

So we found the commuter car park, I said that was likely to be full early. Ok, how about surrounding streets?

Unless you can be on the train & back within 3 hours, not an option. Most streets have 3 hour limits.

We drove around, looking to see where the restrictions ended, in some directions, it is close, others require a long walk.

Fair enough, no one wants their street parked out, but what would be most helpful would be a map outlining parking restrictions.

Personally, I find the 3 hour restrictions (24/7 mind you) to be heavy handed, near the SE Busway, restrictions are sensibly no parking 7-9am, thus eliminating the commuters but allowing off peak users.

A map would be helpful, I wonder if BCC will oblige?

[Mozz]

If you park in the marked bays you can park all day.

The 3 hour restriction is for unmarked part of the road and it's for mon - fri 7am - 5pm from memory not 24/7.

[Set in train]

If you park in the marked bays you can park all day.

The 3 hour restriction is for unmarked part of the road and it's for mon - fri 7am - 5pm from memory not 24/7.

Ok, wasn't sure about the restrictions, we were driving around at 10pm.

Is that right about the marked bays being unrestricted? Thought the signs had arrows pointing the 3P 7am - 5pm restriction at them too?

I'm no good with creating maps via google, but would be happy to go out and record the data of the parking restrictions to make a map if the BCC will not. Would be a good resource and a good reason to go for a walk!

Thanks to Ozbob for moving my post into here, I now have read back on the thread, this station & its parking has generated a lot of discussion I am now discovering!

[Mozz]

Yep definitely marked bays are all good to park all day/night whatever. Can't park against yellow lines or in the unmarked areas between 3hr parking signs mon - fri.

[Set in train]

Yep definitely marked bays are all good to park all day/night whatever. Can't park against yellow lines or in the unmarked areas between 3hr parking signs mon - fri.

Thanks Mozz, appreciate it!

[Set in train]

Problems at Ipswich, Pissale wants to do a Westfield on Ipswichians:

http://www.qt.com.au/story/2011/11/28/mayor-backs-car-park-rule/

[dwb]

Problems at Ipswich, Pissale wants to do a Westfield on Ipswichians:

http://www.qt.com.au/story/2011/11/28/mayor-backs-car-park-rule/

I don't understand why you think that is a bad thing?

[ozbob]

Couriermail Quest --> Paul Lucas says Brisbane City Council can stop paid parking at Westfield Carindale

[achiruel]

http://translink.com.au/travel-information/service-updates/bulletin/1322113451

Avoid the hassle of looking for a park and use one of the 200 car parks available at the new park 'n' ride on Klumpp Road, Mt Gravatt.

The Eight Mile Plains park 'n' ride (located in zone 4) is currently full, and Klumpp Road is just a 10 minute drive north of there. It is located within zone 3, and there are good options for travelling to the city!

I bet they didn't measure that ten minute drive in peak hour!

[ozbob]

Brisbanetimes --> Paid parking scheme can be challenged: Lucas

[Golliwog]

http://translink.com.au/travel-information/service-updates/bulletin/1322113451

Avoid the hassle of looking for a park and use one of the 200 car parks available at the new park 'n' ride on Klumpp Road, Mt Gravatt.

The Eight Mile Plains park 'n' ride (located in zone 4) is currently full, and Klumpp Road is just a 10 minute drive north of there. It is located within zone 3, and there are good options for travelling to the city!

I bet they didn't measure that ten minute drive in peak hour!

Haha, probably not. I'm a bit surprised by this page to be honest. On one hand, good on Translink for being pro-active and spruiking their stuff to people (the page also lists the bus services that service the Klumpp Rd park n' ride, and how they can be used). On the other though, a bit dissapointing that they didn't get a proper measure of demand when they built it in the first place so now they have extra space. I also hope that their trying to get people who currently use the 8MP park n' ride from further in to use Klumpp Rd rather than just getting people from further out to keep driving in further. Perhaps they did a number plate survey at 8MP before this?

[dwb]

Perhaps they did a number plate survey at 8MP before this?

I doubt it

[dwb]

Interesting comment from the brisbanetimes article (not mine):

@Dieter Greulich - Exactly. The core of the argument used by the shopping centre to justify paid parking is exactly the same as the argument used by council to justify parking meters on the street - to provide an incentive for people to park no longer than necessary so available parking spaces are used efficiently. This argument is either valid in both cases or neither.
Council will have a much better argument against Westfield if it pull out all of its own parking meters first.
Michael | Brisbane - November 29, 2011, 9:02AM

Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/paid-parking-scheme-can-be-challenged-lucas-20111128-1o358.html#ixzz1f39TihLH

[Mr X]

I consider turning a public park into a free car park to be a deplorable act. Parkland is NOT reserve parking space.

QUEENSLAND'S Local Government Minister wants the Brisbane City Council to turn popular sports fields into a carpark to alleviate the problems created by paid parking at Westfield Chermside.

Paul Lucas has written to Lord Mayor Graham Quirk suggesting he reconsider a proposal originally made to his predecessor Campbell Newman in 2005 to build park 'n' ride facilities at Marchant Park.

Mr Lucas said it might be a "suitable solution to some of the current issues surrounding parking at Chermside".

"The previous Lord Mayor was not receptive of my proposal at the time but given the current situation at Chermside, I suggest this be reconsidered," he wrote.

Since the introduction of paid parking at the massive shopping complex last month, local streets have been parked out by people including retail staff and commuters.

Other businesses have been forced to hire security to keep people from parking on their properties and are even considering installing boom gates.

Cr Quirk has previously called for the Government to build a park 'n' ride facility at Chermside but he said Marchant Park was not the right location.

"That park was bequeathed to the council by the Marchant brothers. We don't turn sports and recreation facilities into carparks," Cr Quirk said.

BCC was unable to stop Westfield charging for parks but Mr Lucas said the council could act to prevent the retail giant doing the same at other centres such as Carindale and Garden City at Mount Gravatt.

He said advice received from Queensland Environmental Law Association president Rod Litster, SC, said the council could amend its planning scheme to require property owners to seek approval prior to introducing paid parking.

"I would therefore encourage council to commence the drafting process for a Temporary Local Planning Instrument to address the issue of paid parking at other shopping centres in Brisbane," Mr Lucas said.

But Deputy Mayor Adrian Schrinner said the minister's own advice pointed out any TLPI would "only delay the circumstances in which proposals by Westfield to impose parking fees are implemented".

"The only thing Labor's plan for a TLPI will deliver is more red tape and millions of dollars in ratepayer funds topping up the bank accounts of shopping centre giants, with no guarantee of stopping it," he said.

Cr Schrinner said it was clear a statewide approach to the issue was needed with other large shopping centres outside Brisbane now planning to roll out paid parking.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/mayor-rejects-push-for-parking-spaces/story-e6freon6-1226208626680

[dwb]

By Christmas the shoppers will love the controlled parking and the fact that commuters go on holidays will take some pressure off... now Westfield just needs to figure out something for some centre staff... or translink implement better local services for those staff!

[Set in train]

Problems at Ipswich, Pissale wants to do a Westfield on Ipswichians:

http://www.qt.com.au/story/2011/11/28/mayor-backs-car-park-rule/

I don't understand why you think that is a bad thing?

The carpark is not filled by commuters, those making the effort to take a train should have reasonably numbered car spaces available for them. They are keeping vehicles off overloaded roads by using this station and should be accommodated.