Car parking - solutions?

[HappyTrainGuy]

One would think that most shoppers would go there on a Sunday yet the 336/337 doesn't operate on that day and other services have their running hours cut. Honestly, not many locals to the north catch the bus due to the terriable routes and running times. Anyone that catches the 335 to Chermside to and from work in East Aspley can't catch it in the peak as the P339 cuts off Westfield Chermside. Not to mention there are no 336/337s to make up for that lack of service. A large percentage of people that use the 336/337 don't even use it to get to Chermside. Many use it to get to the Craigslea Primary-High Schools/Aspley-Aspley East State Primary-High Schools/Aspley Leagues Club/the Aspley Homemaker Centre/Aspley Hypermarket/Geebung RSL/The Geebung Bowls Club/Geebung Station/Geebung Primary School or to transfer to areas with better PT or the elderly. And paid parking has made it more attractive for locals to drive as there are more parking spots, its free for 3 hours, you can do more grocery shopping and you don't have to stick to a scheduled bus schedule that detirmines how long you can take and how much you can carry.

[somebody]

In peak you can use a P339/P341 combo to reach Chermside.

[HappyTrainGuy]

Its not really ideal or practial having to walk ~500-600m through bushland, soccer fields or along a drain beside or on the breakdown lane on Gympie Road just to transfer to another bus to get to Westfield at Chermside. I'd rather be inclined to just drive there. If I couldn't drive I'd much rather get off outside the Prince Charles Hospital and walk across the road and get the outbound 325 to Chermside rather than walking 500m along a drain. The P341 wouldn't be ideal anyway. Its just minutes before the P339 gets to Gympie Road. But there's also the 680 and 338 buses that go past so waits wouldn't be that long.

[somebody]

Hmm, you have a point here.  The stops do seem too far apart.  I'd wonder if this is a reason why the 333 should be extended to Chermside Markets or Aspley?

[HappyTrainGuy]

Yes and no. It would be good to see the 333 extended into Aspley to provide better services to the Chermside Markets/Hypermarket along with providing another interchange point with the estates near by but theres currently nothing there to support it (In terms of the traffic lights and bus lanes when Gympie road is just bumper to bumper though Aspley which blows realibilty right out of the water). Chermside Markets could be possible as its already set up for the community bus (All that is needed is stop A and stop B signs so it could operate a loop by entering the markets from Gympie road, terminate/start at the markets, exit on to Webster road and then back on to Gympie road and into the chermside interchange to continue the 333 journey) but then comes the issue of parking, congestion and space for the busses parked on the main road along the shops. Maybe every second bus could operate it as a trial too see if it would warrant a full time 333 extension. I wouldn't want to see anything futher along there until the busway extension is planned out.

[ozbob]

From the Brisbanetimes click here!

Park 'n' rides should move into town: LNP

Park 'n' rides should move into town: LNP
Tony Moore
November 4, 2011 - 3:00AM

Park 'n' ride facilities would be established closer to Brisbane's CBD under an LNP government in a clear departure from current policy.

LNP leader Campbell Newman said his government would scrap TransLink's policy of not building park 'n' ride stations within 10 kilometres of the CBD if it took power.

"We don't agree with that policy, we think it's very much a Labor head in the sand type of policy," he said yesterday.

"What it means is they are ignoring the reality of the situation where people are congesting local streets around bus stations and railways stations within the 10 kilometre zone to the annoyance of local residents."

The ALP opposes building park 'n' ride rides within the 10 kilometre zone because it believes it would encourage cars into the centre of Brisbane.

Mr Newman said the LNP disagreed and applications should be assessed on an individual basis.

"I didn't support it as lord mayor of Brisbane and neither does my successor, Lord Mayor Graham Quirk," he said.

"And we will be reviewing it if we are in government."

The issue has been brought into focus by retail giant Westfield's decision to introduce paid parking at its Chermside shopping centre because thousands of commuters park for free and catch buses.

The state government has refused to put a park 'n' ride station at Westfield Chermside, because it is 9.8 kilometres from Brisbane's GPO.

Thousands of commuters are crowding local streets for free car parks to avoid Westfield's paid parking scheme.

Mr Newman said Translink's scheme was "just crazy" because commuters simply drove further into the city.

"So you go to Albion station, or Windsor station, or Newmarket station and you see what is happening in those local streets," he said.

Transport Minister Annastacia Palaszczuk last month confirmed that the ALP was not going to change their park 'n' ride policy.

"The decision to introduce paid parking at Chermside is purely a commercial decision for Westfield," she said.

"It has nothing to with whether there is a park 'n' ride at the centre.

"In fact, the Brisbane City Council's own Transport Plan supports the development of bus interchanges at major centres as a way of encouraging more people to use public transport.

"Interchanges encourage people to catch the bus to do their shopping or keep a medical appointment or transfer to another bus.

"The state government does not build park 'n' ride infrastructure in shopping centres where they would increase congestion or reduce car parking places.

"Local government are responsible for regulating off street parking and there is little the state government can do to intervene in this issue under current legislation."

Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/park-n-rides-should-move-into-town-lnp-20111103-1mxo4.html

[ozbob]

Blog comment:

Oh dear .... major policy blunder Mr Newman.  Who is going to pay for the massive expensive resumptions?  More added congestion, and parking problems as the park n' rides are rapidly parked out.  Where do the punters park then?  Do you plan to charge for park n' ride to pay for it?   Ramp up frequent public transport services accessible to all.  More of the same in terms of road congestion is insanity.  Station and local feeder buses are needed Mr Newman.  Not more car centric congestion chaos.  Where is the bus priority Mr Newman?

[ozbob]

Sent to all outlets:

4th November 2011

Oh dear,  Einstein was right ...

Greetings,

As reported in the Brisbanetimes this morning ( http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/park-n-rides-should-move-into-town-lnp-20111103-1mxo4.html ), the LNP would like to build Park n' rides within 10km of Brisbane CBD.  There are real issues with doing that.  Firstly it further encourages more cars onto the already massive congestion basket case that are the roads in inner Brisbane.  There is the cost of building the Park n' Rides which would be very expensive due to the resumptions that would be required. Also, there is a much bigger problem. Park n' rides are filled very early, what happens is that people in cars are then forced to drive further in, and overload the streets and businesses, suburbs adjacent to the Park n' Rides.   The LNP should be focused on restoring bus priority on the road network rather than implementing policies that will exacerbate the problems.  The LNP should be focussed on implementing a proper station and feeder bus network.  This then means that the present Park n' Rides can cope.   Shift workers are often excluded from using public transport because they cannot get a park at bus station or railway station, after the peak. The parking spaces are occupied by peak commuters.  Having a proper feeder bus network means the pressure is relieved, and those who do have to drive to the station for mobility reasons, or varying work hours can do so and obtain a lawful park.

There are solutions.  See -->  http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=1056.msg61230#msg61230

It is time that all political parties actually started to act on long sustainable transport solutions, not knee-jerk populist twaddle ...

One should not have to own a car to use public transport!

Best wishes
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

[#Metro]

Ugh!

1 Carpark = $30 000 - 50 000 EACH
Capacity is low as well


I would ONLY support carparking within 10 km if it paid for itself over the lifecycle of the infrastructure (i.e. there were charges to use it). But then maybe the sky will have to be purple before that happens.

[david]

Massive policy blunder. This just shows how car-centric Mr Newman is. The answer is not more park-and-rides. It's PROPER feeder services into train stations and key bus interchanges.

There goes my vote.

[Jonno]

His true 'car-first' stripes are rapidly showing. He never had my vote!!

[Mr X]

Using TramTrain's car park cost of ~$30,000-$50,000 per space
1 bus = $400,000?


So ignoring the cost of resumptions for car parking and any operational cost, and assuming most cars are, on average, carrying 1.5 people.
1 bus = 8-13 carparking spaces for the money.
1 full bus can carry ~50 people, per trip
Those same spaces? 12-20 people, for the whole day.

So we can either supply 8-13 spaces for 12-20 people to drive, or provide a bus which can hold 50+ people.
Did I mention at the end destination, by PT you actually get where you want to go faster as you don't need to go looking for car parking spaces, parking cars, paying fees, locking cars etc. etc. etc.?

One more point Mr Newman may not realise. On top of the 15% fare rise, these carparks will be attractive to not only the people parking at train stations on the northside but those already using public transport in the inner city.

[Jonno]

Media release outlining just how stupid this policy and (using great costing analysis by o_O) and also lamenting the absolute lack of leadership in transport policy!!!

[Mr X]

Can someone confirm the cost of a bus? I can't find any media releases to show investment etc.. if it's cheaper than $400K then the numbers are further skewed against parking.

[ozbob]

Media release outlining just how stupid this policy and (using great costing analysis by o_O) and also lamenting the absolute lack of leadership in transport policy!!!

We have done multiple media releases on this matter.  Email has gone off today (above), more than one way to get the message home ...

[SurfRail]

Can someone confirm the cost of a bus? I can't find any media releases to show investment etc.. if it's cheaper than $400K then the numbers are further skewed against parking.

Between $400-$500K for a 12.5m rigid, a bit more for a 14.5m rigid, the Bustech decker should be approximately $650K and artics are approximately $750K.  Depends on builder, chassis, engine technology, fuel type and a bunch of other factors.

[Golliwog]

For comparison, these figures were given in a lecture a few weeks back, and as I understand are local costs.
6 car train: $30 million
Light rail (# cars not specified): $4-5 million per unit
Bus: $450,000 for a typical bus
Citycat: $2.8 million

[ozbob]

Brisbanetimes blog comments are interesting --> here!

[ozbob]

Transport and Multicultural Affairs
The Honourable Annastacia Palaszczuk
04/11/2011

Newman parking solution unworkable

Campbell Newman's latest transport policy blunder would clog inner-city streets and cause more problems with congestion than it solves.

Transport Minister Annastacia Palaszczuk said Campbell Newman's Park n Ride plan was costly and unworkable.

"Campbell Newman's announcements on public transport two days running show he can't be trusted to run Queensland," Ms Palaszczuk said.

"What they are proposing today is to create absolute inner-city traffic chaos.

"His plan would clog streets, boxing buses into complete gridlock, and making public transport unusable."

Ms Palaszczuk said resuming the land required for inner-city Park n Rides would force Translink to cut services.

"With land values in the inner-city substantially higher than outer suburbs, Campbell Newman needs to explain how he plans to pay for inner-city park n rides," Ms Palaszczuk said.

"He also needs give certainty to residents and say exactly which homes and businesses are going to be bulldozed to build them."

Ms Palaszczuk said the state government was sticking to its policy of building Park n Rides outside the city fringe and away from major activity centres.

"We don't build Park n Ride infrastructure in already busy areas, like shopping centres, where they would just increase congestion further," Ms Palaszczuk said.

"In fact it makes so much sense that even Campbell Newman agreed with us. In his Transport Plan for Brisbane 2008-2026, he makes it crystal clear that he supports our policy of building new Park and Ride facilities outside the middle ring of the city.

"He even says council will work with the state government. So what has changed and why has he now reversed himself?

"We have the balance right when it comes to building new park n rides where they won't cause extra congestion and investing in new public transport services."

The Bligh Government has added more than 2500 car parks at stations across the network since 2009 - with another 350 being built with 850 planned.

[O_128]

What's this, a press release that makes sense!

[Mr X]

 

[ozbob]

Media release 6 November 2011

SEQ: Park n' Ride

RAIL Back On Track (http://backontrack.org) a web based community support group for rail and public transport and an advocate for public transport passengers is concerned that the present policy of Park n' Ride only being provided outside the inner suburbs might be changed by the LNP (1).

Robert Dow, Spokesman for RAIL Back On Track said:

"The LNP would like to build Park n' rides within 10km of Brisbane CBD.  There are real issues with doing that."

"Park n' Ride requires people to own just as many cars as if public transport didn't exist at all, and does nothing to improve mobility for passengers not who aren't driving."

"Park n' Ride is inherently inefficient at getting extra users on-board public transport. Each Park n' Ride  space generally only results in a single extra passenger per day, because spaces are occupied all day by peak hour commuters."

"Major stations such as Indooroopilly attract around 6000 passengers per day without reliance on Park n' Ride. A massive Park n' Ride station for 1000 cars would still only be catering to 1 in 6 of station users. Why spend millions of dollars on construction to give only a fraction of passengers special treatment? In Brisbane, 85% of passengers get to their first boarding points by walking and cycling (2). This is a real success story, and we should be aiming to push this figure even higher!"

"Park n' Ride infrastructure is expensive, at around $30,000 or more per space. This money could be better spent on more effective means of attracting users onto public transport, such as providing more vehicles, more frequent services supported by station and feeder buses, better facilities at stations including improved accessibility, and network extensions. These sort of investments benefit all rather than some."

"Traffic congestion is already an issue on the approaches to the inner 10km of Brisbane and Park n' Ride will not allow people to escape this."

"The saga at Chermside, where commuters are parking out local streets, is not the result of inadequate Park n' Ride facilities. Rather it shows clearly that there are gaps in the public transport network that people are being forced to bridge with their cars. This street parking is problematic over most of Brisbane."

"Cities with developed public transport systems use networks of frequent and direct buses, sometimes tramways, to actively funnel people into the rail network, and don't rely on people to use their car at any stage of the journey."

"The inner 10km radius of Brisbane already has the highest population density in the city, and all signs point to this zone being a powerhouse in years to come."

"Both sides of politics need to continue to support TransLink and the policy of not constructing Park n' Ride within 10 km of the CBD."

References:

1.   http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/park-n-rides-should-move-into-town-lnp-20111103-1mxo4.html

2.   http://translink.com.au/resources/about-translink/what-we-do/customer-research/100501-public-transport-survey.pdf

Contact:

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

[dwb]

From the Brisbanetimes click here!

Park 'n' rides should move into town: LNP

So predictable and so hopeless. This may very well be the guy running the state in a few months. Get ready for it!

Maybe if he wins office for one term Labor will actually get their sh(t together and he'll have had enough time to show the State how hopeless he is?

[Mr X]

He is just too obsessed with concrete. Just look at the pedestrian utilities on both ends of the Go Between Bridge- pedestrian FAIL.

[O_128]

He is just too obsessed with concrete. Just look at the pedestrian utilities on both ends of the Go Between Bridge- pedestrian FAIL.

sigh, this is most likely the start, He probably bring back the the riverside expressway that was proposed along the other side of the city, build the east west tunnel, propose a south west and south east tunnel as well as a north east tunnel. A new elizebth street bridge - levelling half of south bank in the process. And my personal favourite - convert the SEB to general road use.

[Mr X]

His first action will be to open the Eleanor Schonnel Bridge to cars I reckon; a LOT of car lovers would love to get their hands on it.

[colinw]

He is just too obsessed with concrete. Just look at the pedestrian utilities on both ends of the Go Between Bridge- pedestrian FAIL.

sigh, this is most likely the start, He probably bring back the the riverside expressway that was proposed along the other side of the city, build the east west tunnel, propose a south west and south east tunnel as well as a north east tunnel. A new elizebth street bridge - levelling half of south bank in the process. And my personal favourite - convert the SEB to general road use.

Tolled tidal flow lanes in the peak direction!

I don't trust that man as far as I could throw him, and simply cannot bring myself to vote LNP if it means premier Campbell Newman.

[Mr X]

The busway stations could become taxi pickup points 

[colinw]

Nah, they will remain bus stops.  But the buses will have to pay the toll.

[Mr X]

And cars don't? 

[#Metro]

His first action will be to open the Eleanor Schonnel Bridge to cars I reckon; a LOT of car lovers would love to get their hands on it.

Doubt it. It would be hard and the Lakes Busway station is at capacity anyway, awaiting expansion.

As for voting LNP--- the ALP does have a decent track record of PT improvements, as much as some might want to disagree. They brought in TransLink, the Go Card, completely overhauled the regions PT, integrate the whole thing, got the LRT and busways off the ground (busways were a huge achievement!), extensions, duplications, funding deals for buses and so forth.

The LNP have been out of power for sooo long that its difficult to see what they might do. At this point they'll need some signature projects or initiatives (one or two big things)
and a whole host of re-thinks (I don't know- more BUZ routes, committing to CRR). At the moment there's all this rubbish coming out (scrap CRR for metro) or pure vapour (information/policy
content-free media releases about nothing really) but I actually think deep down there are sensible ideas and all this nonsense about what is truly garbage schemes (like scrapping CRR, I mean
come on) is actually a smokescreen/distraction to buy time before their real policies come out.

And yes we like to think LNP = Roads, but on the other hand its not like Brisconnections or Gateway duplication aren't ALP started projects.

Personally, I think I might go with LNP this time. Why? You can't be in power forever- do that and you get lazy.

[colinw]

I concur about the Schonell bridge. There's no way it will be given over the private vehicle traffic, and even if it did where would it connect to?

Ditto the Busway.  Its fun to joke about, but it would be a scandal of massive proportions if anyone really tried it.

[#Metro]

Ditto the Busway.  Its fun to joke about, but it would be a scandal of massive proportions if anyone really tried it.

I reckon rubbish proposals like this are there to just generate talk and pass time while the real policy is being made behind the scenes and kept under wraps for
when the election is on.

[Mr X]

His first action will be to open the Eleanor Schonnel Bridge to cars I reckon; a LOT of car lovers would love to get their hands on it.

Doubt it. It would be hard and the Lakes Busway station is at capacity anyway, awaiting expansion.

As much as my post was in jest, the talk is out there for it to be opened to cars, taxis at least. Not that I agree with that at all!

[SurfRail]

There's also frequently talk of connecting Beenleigh with Cleveland by rail via Carbrook.

There are certain rumours which can safely be discounted, I think.

[ozbob]

Couriermail Quest --> Paid parking may be out of council's control

[achiruel]

His first action will be to open the Eleanor Schonnel Bridge to cars I reckon; a LOT of car lovers would love to get their hands on it.

Doubt it. It would be hard and the Lakes Busway station is at capacity anyway, awaiting expansion.

As much as my post was in jest, the talk is out there for it to be opened to cars, taxis at least. Not that I agree with that at all!

Don't these morons realise that the SEB is at capacity already during peak hours with BUSES, i.e. those things that carry 50+ people as opposed to Taxis which carry a max of 5? (or 11 for a Maxi).

[#Metro]

Don't these morons realise that the SEB is at capacity already during peak hours with BUSES, i.e. those things that carry 50+ people as opposed to Taxis which carry a max of 5? (or 11 for a Maxi).

You know what the stupid thing is? There are already T2 lanes on the SE freeway which taxi can use ANYWAY.

Hence I think this is just a rubbish release, think up some crap outrageous idea, write up a release, get in on the front page of the local rag
stir up a lot of people and then forget about it. It's just a distraction.

[ozbob]

Couriermail Quest --> Brisbane residents expected to pay $22 million in parking fines as revenue doubles in 5 years

[dwb]

Couriermail Quest --> Brisbane residents expected to pay $22 million in parking fines as revenue doubles in 5 years

Paid parking is here to stay it is only too bad that LNP see it fit on Labor voting inner city public, but not on anyone else, and esp not on private land like at Chermside.

And sucky old Labor having a go at LNP clearly showing their bad policy, wanting to let people park against regulations all over the place.... mmmhmmm.