Car parking - solutions?

[ozbob]

Couriermail --> Truth about Chermside shopping centre parking

[ozbob]

From the Brisbanetimes click here!

Spilling to the streets: Westfield parking furore spreads

Spilling to the streets: Westfield parking furore spreads
Bridie Jabour
October 26, 2011 - 3:00AM

The furore over paid parking at Westfield Chermside has spilled to surrounding streets, where many have parked to avoid the fees in the shopping centre.

Residents and business owners in Kittyhawk Drive, which borders the Westfield centre, have said there is not a parking space to be found in the street since paid parking was introduced at the shopping centre this week.

Hazel Aye, who has lived in the street for years, said she had wondered why it was so busy this week before she realised it was people avoiding paying for parking at the centre.
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"My daughter came to visit in the afternoon yesterday and that's when it suddenly twigged," she said.

"She couldn't find a park so she just blocked my car in my driveway which is fine, but what about when more people are coming over and they won't fit in my driveway?

"And so many cars out there makes it hard for people to see properly when driving down the street. I'm glad I don't have young children to worry about."

Mrs Aye said the cars started arriving about 6.30am and the street is completely full by about 8am, with no respite until about 5pm.

"I don't know if it people parking and then catching a bus to work or the staff from the shopping centre parking so they don't have to pay while they work," she said.

Kittyhawk Drive is also home to a few businesses, which have been left with no on street parking thanks to the increase.

One business owner, who did not want to be named, said she had been in contact with the Brisbane City Council about trying to get time limits put on the street, but to no avail so far.

"I've never seen it this busy," she said.

"My husband can't even find somewhere to park to drop me off lunch."

Local councillor Fiona King said the council was now investigating the types of people who have decided to park on Kittyhawk Drive.

"At the moment we are having our council officers look at the whole situation, and to see exactly who is parking there," she said.

"To see if it is workers, or if it is commuters."

Deputy Mayor Adrian Schrinner said the council wanted to see what the impact was on the nearby streets around the Chermside centre.

"We need to find out exactly specifically what the parking problems are," he said.

"One of the things with parking problems us that if you make a little tweak in one place, it will have a tweak in other places.

"And so if you start putting time restrictions in one street, the problem will end up in the next street, so you need to have a look at the whole area."

- with Tony Moore

Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/business/spilling-to-the-streets-westfield-parking-furore-spreads-20111025-1mhy1.html

[Jonno]

It is well know that without car parking that a city is doomed to retail annihilation - oh except for Cophenhagen, Vienna, Munich, Prague, Stockholm, Vancouver......

Our Shopping Centres are a town planning embarrassment and a indication of the poor leaderdhip in our city.

I sm sure the thought of people taking public transport to Chermide has neer crossed the Deputy Mayor mind.

[ozbob]

It is well know that without car parking that a city is doomed to retail annihilation - oh except for Cophenhagen, Vienna, Munich, Prague, Stockholm, Vancouver......

Our Shopping Centres are a town planning embarrassment and a indication of the poor leaderdhip in our city.

I sm sure the thought of people taking public transport to Chermide has neer crossed the Deputy Mayor mind.

Well said!   

Some of the shopping centres to access by foot is very difficult and not without hazards from the 'horseless carriages'   Pathetic effort planners and local governments!! 
Shame and mediocrity ..

[O_128]

It is well know that without car parking that a city is doomed to retail annihilation - oh except for Cophenhagen, Vienna, Munich, Prague, Stockholm, Vancouver......

Our Shopping Centres are a town planning embarrassment and a indication of the poor leaderdhip in our city.

I sm sure the thought of people taking public transport to Chermide has neer crossed the Deputy Mayor mind.

Well said!   

Some of the shopping centres to access by foot is very difficult and not without hazards from the 'horseless carriages'   Pathetic effort planners and local governments!! 
Shame and mediocrity ..

Agreed, I really can't believe how stingy people are however. Indooroopilly is definently worst to get to buy foot.

[ozbob]

Catch a bus?  Me??  With those ' horrid people ' ?   Oh, really ...  YES Noddie, the world is bigger than you and your car-car ... walk!

Couriermail Quest --> Councillor for Morningside Shayne Sutton says residents and businesses are furious at Bulimba paid parking plan

[Jonno]

Welcome to the 21 century where car parking rights get more attention than human rights.  What have we become.

[O_128]

Catch a bus?  Me??  With those ' horrid people ' ?   Oh, really ...  YES Noddie, the world is bigger than you and your car-car ... walk!

Couriermail Quest --> Councillor for Morningside Shayne Sutton says residents and businesses are furious at Bulimba paid parking plan

It should be noted that bulimba itself has a lot of walk up and active transport use, its people coming from other suburbs and parking. Perfect opportunity for a BUZ230.


or maybe lets just turn the park into a massive car park

[Golliwog]

It is well know that without car parking that a city is doomed to retail annihilation - oh except for Cophenhagen, Vienna, Munich, Prague, Stockholm, Vancouver......

Our Shopping Centres are a town planning embarrassment and a indication of the poor leaderdhip in our city.

I sm sure the thought of people taking public transport to Chermide has neer crossed the Deputy Mayor mind.

A few months ago when this (paid parking) was first announced, I mentioned it to a friend who lives down south in Newcastle, who I know pretty much never uses PT. His response was a big "So what?" They've done it down there for ages, one of his elderly relatives who was also there and also lives in Newcastle added that she's never held a drivers license and gets to the shops on PT easily, even though she has to change routes a few times to get there.

Honestly, we should stop seeing the interchange at the shops as something just for city bound travellers, but as an actual interchange and a way to access the shopping center as well.

[BrizCommuter]

http://brizcommuter.blogspot.com/2011/10/chermsideaggedon.html
It's a fine mess!

[ozbob]

Couriermail --> Westfield Chermside parking in a mess as state and council pass the blame

[ozbob]

From the Brisbanetimes click here!

Street squeeze puts park 'n' rides on agenda

Street squeeze puts park 'n' rides on agenda
Tony Moore
October 27, 2011 - 3:00AM

Labor is under pressure to allow park 'n' rides within 10km of the CBD after commuters choked streets around Westfield Chermside after the introduction of paid parking this week.

The state government currently has a policy of not allowing park 'n' rides within 10km of the city and Westfield Chermside is 9.9km from the Brisbane CBD.

The topic is likely to become a major state election issue, with the Liberal National Party last night signalling strongly that it would change Translink's policy if it won government.
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Westfield's paid parking system started on Monday.

Hundreds of commuters who previously used the shopping centre to park all day and catch public transport to the CBD, simply crammed local streets.

The state government refuses to build a park 'n' ride station at Chermside.

The policy was outlined in a letter from former Translink CEO Peter Strachan to Brisbane's then deputy mayor Adrian Schrinner on March 14.

"The policy does not generally support expanding or developing new park 'n' ride facilities in locations under 10km from the Brisbane CBD, less than 1km from major activity centres and more than 400m from high-frequency public transport," Mr Strachan said.

Brisbane Lord Mayor Graham Quirk said change had to come.

"I know that Campbell Newman has always had a view that the 10 kilometre radius policy is a false policy," Cr Quirk said.

"And I would be very surprised if that is not an area that they will look at should they be forming a government next year."

He said planners knew that motorists would not drive "outwards" to get a park, if they wanted to come into the city.

Mr Newman could not be contacted yesterday, however he raised the same issue on October 14 when he debated Member for Ashgrove Kate Jones.

"Well I say to Kate Jones and to Murray Watt (Everton MP) and to Geoff Wilson (Ferny Grove MP) – the big thing you need to do is build park 'n' ride car parks along the railway line to cut down on the congestion caused by cars in local streets," he said.

"This state government has a policy – they will not build park and rides within 10km of the CBD."

Shadow Transport spokesman Scott Emerson said it was "one of many" Labor transport policies that would be reviewed by the LNP if it won office.

He said the same issue was emerging at Indooroopilly rail station, where no park 'n' ride was built when the station was upgraded.

"We will be reviewing a whole lot of issues that the government has been doing on public transport, because basically they have been failing on public transport," he said.

"That's why we have seen the extraordinary situation where patronage numbers have fallen, down 1.7 million trips in the last quarter, compared to the same time last year."

However Transport Minister Annastacia Palaszczuk said the issue of paid parking was purely a commercial decision for Westfield.

She said the government would not build a park 'n' ride at Chermside.

"It has nothing to with whether there is a park 'n' ride at the centre," she said.

"The state government does not build park 'n' ride infrastructure in shopping centres where they would increase congestion or reduce car parking places," she said.

"Local government are responsible for regulating off-street parking and there is little the state government can do to intervene in this issue under current legislation."

She said the Government was introducing new bus services on the outer edges of the city, citing the new $3.5 million bus station and 680 bus service from North Lakes as an example.

She said outer train stations had parking spaces which could be used.

Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/street-squeeze-puts-park-n-rides-on-agenda-20111026-1mkb8.html

[ozbob]

At best only a part solution.  Park n' ride at Indooroopilly rail is laughable.  What should have been done there is a proper bus interchange.  There is serious road traffic congestion already accessing Indooroopilly.  Some expansion at Chelmer etc. might be possible.

They are all going down the wrong path, LNP, Labor and Council.  What is needed is a comprehensive policy to support feeder and station bus, properly sited park n' rides, enhanced active transport support.  Knocking down yet more houses and turning suburbia into acres of tar is not working now, nor will it in the future.

Unbelievable incompetence from them all, TransLink, Local and State Government and planning authorities.

[jouzocha]

It should be noted that bulimba itself has a lot of walk up and active transport use, its people coming from other suburbs and parking. Perfect opportunity for a BUZ230.


or maybe lets just turn the park into a massive car park

Yes, a BUZ230 is sorely needed.  I remember when I used to live in Norman Park I would drive to Bulimba to the cinemas because the frequency (particularly at night) on the 230 was (and still is) absolutely appalling.  C'mon, hourly buses in a suburb with such a large number of places to go at night (cinemas, restaurants etc)?  Pathetic.

[#Metro]

At $30 000 per car park, what services is the LNP going to cut?

[O_128]

I might just add, Since when do people own the street? As long as no one is parked in front of your driveway you have no reason to complain people can park wherever they like on a street.

[HappyTrainGuy]

Traffic flows, being able to see oncoming traffic when leaving your driveway, bike lanes, the turning circle of getting out of your driveway. A couple cars is okay but if the whole street on both sides has parked cars thats when issues can arrise.

I wonder how the 77 is coping especially since that pesky little round about is already p%ssing the drivers off

[ozbob]

At $30 000 per car park, what services is the LNP going to cut?

How long will 'free' park n' ride last .....   

[O_128]

Traffic flows, being able to see oncoming traffic when leaving your driveway, bike lanes, the turning circle of getting out of your driveway. A couple cars is okay but if the whole street on both sides has parked cars thats when issues can arrise.

I wonder how the 77 is coping especially since that pesky little round about is already p%ssing the drivers off

Rubbish, my street and every street in new farm are lined with cars and bike lanes and I and everyone else copes. As I've said when everyone pays 100k Rego per year then there complaints will be valid. Otherwise buy the street.

[HappyTrainGuy]

That's just it. New Farm is a totally different area. Its mostly residential on the Valley doorstep with a river blocking a large portion. Chermside and surrounds is made up of a large commercial and residential area spread out with two near by schools and two major roads that handles all the traffic going to and from the city (Gympie/Sandgate roads). Most streets around Chermside are about 7-10m wide. The street that the 77 bus goes down (Kingsmill) is roughly 8.5m wide. Having parked cars on both sides with constant traffic and bike lanes (Just a yellow spray painted bike on the road) both ways is easy to see why. Everyone has a large car for famlies and work. All the traffic I mostly see when I'm in New Farm are small cars and sedans.

[O_128]

That's just it. New Farm is a totally different area. Its mostly residential on the Valley doorstep with a river blocking a large portion. Chermside and surrounds is made up of a large commercial and residential area spread out with two near by schools and two major roads that handles all the traffic going to and from the city (Gympie/Sandgate roads). Most streets around Chermside are about 7-10m wide. The street that the 77 bus goes down (Kingsmill) is roughly 8.5m wide. Having parked cars on both sides with constant traffic and bike lanes (Just a yellow spray painted bike on the road) both ways is easy to see why. Everyone has a large car for famlies and work. All the traffic I mostly see when I'm in New Farm are small cars and sedans.

But thats the thing, my steet is narrow, brunswick street is narrow and the bike lanes are yellow lines, Or is this just that those people in suburbia can't handle it and chermside isn't exactly suburbia.

[HappyTrainGuy]

Brunswick street is about 12m wide which is alot wider than streets in Chermside.

[SurfRail]

The above debate is a bit of a moot point anyway.  The 77 only uses Kingsmill to turn around to serve the express stop on the southern side of Hamilton Road.  If Chermside interchange had been built to a size commensurate with what is actually needed, the 77 would be in there - of course Westfield would have whinged more, but that would have been the least of their problems. 

What is needed is to dig up the Nerang interchange (which is far too large for purpose), dig up Chermside interchange (which is far too small for purpose) and helicopter them into each other's current location, where both would be about perfect!

[ozbob]

Couriermail --> Woolworths cuts staff numbers as Westfield Chermside parking fees hit sales

[Derwan]

Couriermail --> Woolworths cuts staff numbers as Westfield Chermside parking fees hit sales

Interesting that they've got the comments turned off for that article.  The CM has published a series of articles against paid parking at Chermside and every time the comments have been overwhelmingly in support of Westfield.  I guess they think if they turn comments off, some idiots might actually believe that what they print (type) is actually the common opinion.

As for the article - one week is not nearly long enough to determine if the scheme will have long-term impacts on customer numbers.  Chances are the movement of staff between stores is a common thing and that the CM just grabbed it and ran with it.

[Gazza]

Plus who takes 3 hours to do the grocery shopping? (And Coles said they had felt no impact anyway)

If I lived in the area and was just going to get groceries, then Chermside would be my first choice because you'd know it would be far easier to get a park nowadays.

And good on the CM for posting a pic of the empty rooftop car park  . I'll bet you just they went up there midday on a weekday and took the pic 

[Mr X]

For christmas shopping, you could spend an entire day there.
You'd be amazed at how quickly you can loose track of time and poof.. $20 please!

[HappyTrainGuy]

Wonder if their just moving Woolies workers between the Westfield store and the Woolies 1km down the road.

[ozbob]

Couriermail --> Neighbours of Westfield Carindale brace for chaose after paid parking filled streets at Chermside

[ozbob]

Couriermail --> Westfield 'free to charge' for parking

[somebody]

Couriermail --> Westfield 'free to charge' for parking

Be interesting to see if this has an effect of PT use.  Although I doubt that we will get that info.

[Gazza]

For christmas shopping, you could spend an entire day there.
You'd be amazed at how quickly you can loose track of time and poof.. $20 please!

Christmas is also when parking demand exceeds supply, so demand management through pricing makes sense.

[Jonno]

I fully support the paid parking but I would also support the Council saying "Ok you want to be a Town Centre with Paid Parking? Then no more development until you subdivide, introduce local streets and become a mixed use town centre".

[#Metro]

PAY!

No different to BCC charging for car parking in the city (shock horror!).

Sometimes I think this "entitlement mentality" gets a bit much!

It's their bloody carpark and land!

[Mr X]

I think it's within their right preventing city parkers from using their car park. Fair shake of the sauce bottle!!
I do have some sympathy for employees though, $20 can take a fair whack out of the earnings from an 8 hour shift.

Ultimately I agree with TT, it's their car park which they are paying rates on and if it's free, they're not earning any income from it!

[SurfRail]

I think it's within their right preventing city parkers from using their car park. Fair shake of the sauce bottle!!
I do have some sympathy for employees though, $20 can take a fair whack out of the earnings from an 8 hour shift.

Ultimately I agree with TT, it's their car park which they are paying rates on and if it's free, they're not earning any income from it!

I suspect some of the car-based travel to Chermside is much more contestable with PT now - be interesting if we could check and quantify that.

[HappyTrainGuy]

  You mean they've rampped up the 5 daily (excluding Sunday) local community buses that has to service Aspley, Geebung, Craisglea and Chermside in one go while running just 2 minutes before the hourly following 335 through Aspley or 7 minutes before the hourly 325 through Geebung and added extra bus routes through Ellison/Kirby/Robinson/Zilmere/Newman roads and etc?

[ozbob]

Couriermail --> Mayor blasts Westfield for 'wicked' move to install paid parking at shopping centres

[SurfRail]

You mean they've rampped up the 5 daily (excluding Sunday) local community buses that has to service Aspley, Geebung, Craisglea and Chermside in one go while running just 2 minutes before the hourly following 335 through Aspley or 7 minutes before the hourly 325 through Geebung and added extra bus routes through Ellison/Kirby/Robinson/Zilmere/Newman roads and etc?

Most of those routes don't exactly carry full standing loads outside of the peak, which is when most shoppers go there.

[ozbob]

Brisbanetimes --> Paid parking legal advice made public