Car parking - solutions?

[ozbob]

612 ABC Brisbane click --> here!

Is current Park 'n' Ride policy successful?

31 August 2011 , 7:34 AM by Anne O'Keeffe

Would you use public transport if you could drive to your local bus or train station and park there?

As work is about to start on the newest Park 'n' Ride at The Gap, this morning we look at the impact of the State Government's policies about parking at transport hubs.

612 ABC Brisbane Breakfast's Anne O'Keeffe reports:

[O_128]

Interesting how 1600 parks is barely 2 trains.

And Im going to add that Scott Emerson is an idiot! The current set up is much better rather than a desolate car park around the station, And why build Park and ride on the inner northern busway as its not going to cut congestion.

[dwb]

At Windsor and Indoorpilly parking could be buily over the tracks and station, the opportunity should have been taken when rebuilding Indoorpilly to build a bus and rail interchange and parking over the station platforms and parking on the eastern side of the Westminister St road overbridge.
The bus interchange would reduce the numbers of cars and the parking facility would increase the numbers of rail commuters.

-100000000

Bad bad bad idea.

How long will it take for people do to some sums and work out that the money would be much more equitably spent on services and actual PT infrastructure than carparking

[Mr X]

Because the LNP know best and the solution to every parking issue is just to build more carparks 

[dwb]

Because the LNP know best and the solution to every parking issue is just to build more carparks 

Even when the carparks are on the other side of an already congested bridge. Yes they're really clever people!

[ozbob]

Couriermail --> Brisbane Airport plans to slug drivers for parking to pick up passengers

[Mr X]

I always wait outside the Kingsford Smith memorial for the passenger to ring me up, then I drive over and pick them up 

[Derwan]

If it's during the day, head to the plane-spotting area at the end of Acacia St.

Actually - you can park at the businesses there after hours as they're not open so won't worry.

Meanwhile, Airtrain records a record 12.5 million dollar profit.

[O_128]

Why is it me that has to pay for poor design? I've picked people up and it's a nightmare, Sydney is much more legible with separate drop offs and pick ups

[somebody]

Why is it me that has to pay for poor design? I've picked people up and it's a nightmare, Sydney is much more legible with separate drop offs and pick ups

That's the way of the world.  If you don't like it, take your $ elsewhere.

Besides, Sydney Airport sucks.

[Mr X]

Ya gotta get amongst it 

[ozbob]

A couple us checked out parking at Richlands, Darra, Oxley and a few other places yesterday. Richlands was parked out, with some overflow onto the area for the site offices.

Darra had very heavy street parking, at least equal to PR (prior Richlands).  Oxley was parked out, some street parking out around 500 metres plus from station.

I will be checking Goodna, Gailes and Wacol this morning as well, heading into town for a meeting.

Clearly, we have a problem.  The parking issues are happening all over, not only western.  The roads are getting worse, clearly it is time to examine the policies present in place, more of the same is just lunacy.   Some station bus trials could be implemented.  These buses could also be useful for community tasks out side of peaks.  The most common complaint to BCC relates to parking issues.  

[ozbob]

At least 150 cars at Gailes, Goodna parked out (Goodna only has around 243 car spaces).  Most places occupied at Wacol.  

[mufreight]

Richlands well and truely parked out time to build Ellen Grove with the additional 200 plus parking spaces that it would provide.

[petey3801]

Richlands well and truely parked out time to build Ellen Grove with the additional 200 plus parking spaces that it would provide.

Here here! Would also give Forest Lake residents another option. It mostly wouldn't affect the timetable (possibly a few services in Peak might be affected a bit), as there is plenty of turnaround time at Richlands for the service to be extended to Ellen Grove without a drama (and Springfield for that matter when it opens!).

[somebody]

Richlands well and truely parked out time to build Ellen Grove with the additional 200 plus parking spaces that it would provide.

Here here! Would also give Forest Lake residents another option. It mostly wouldn't affect the timetable (possibly a few services in Peak might be affected a bit), as there is plenty of turnaround time at Richlands for the service to be extended to Ellen Grove without a drama (and Springfield for that matter when it opens!).

Might improve the track arrangements as well.  A 6 minute frequency at Richlands can't be sustained in any way I can see.

[Gazza]

Richlands well and truely parked out time to build Ellen Grove with the additional 200 plus parking spaces that it would provide.

why not just build the 200 spaces at Richlands?

[petey3801]

Richlands well and truely parked out time to build Ellen Grove with the additional 200 plus parking spaces that it would provide.

Here here! Would also give Forest Lake residents another option. It mostly wouldn't affect the timetable (possibly a few services in Peak might be affected a bit), as there is plenty of turnaround time at Richlands for the service to be extended to Ellen Grove without a drama (and Springfield for that matter when it opens!).

Might improve the track arrangements as well.  A 6 minute frequency at Richlands can't be sustained in any way I can see.

It could be if they used the same method as Petrie uses in the morning peak. Train comes in, incoming crew get off, spare crew (on first train only, or in the case of Petrie, a crew from Petrie) take the train back out (quick turnback). Crew off first train walk to the other end as the next train comes in. The incoming crew off the second train get off while the crew of the first train take the second one back to the city, and so on. A similar thing could be done at most turnback stations really, the only problem would be having the extra crews to do it (may struggle until more drivers are qualified).

[somebody]

There is that option, which is used at Bondi Junction, and could also be used at Shorncliffe.

[mufreight]

Richlands well and truely parked out time to build Ellen Grove with the additional 200 plus parking spaces that it would provide.

why not just build the 200 spaces at Richlands?

A shortage of room.  By building at EllenGrove now it would draw many walk up passengers from Forest Lake and if a subway was constructed under the Centenary Highway also from Carole Park.  These would be in the main passengers who presently drive to Richlands and the 200 car spaces would be in demand for those in the southern and western ends of Forest Lake.
In terms of cost cheaper to construct it now as a greenfield project rather than when the line is operational all the way to Springfield, from the politicial viewpoint people would view it as positive progress.

[somebody]

In terms of cost cheaper to construct it now as a greenfield project rather than when the line is operational all the way to Springfield, from the politicial viewpoint people would view it as positive progress.

I think this is the reason why projects are built in stages here.

[Gazza]

By building at EllenGrove now it would draw many walk up passengers from Forest Lake

No.
Presently, the absolute nearest walk up pax (Those living in Manix place) are 900m from the station site, which is a bit outside the walk up threshold (800m generally)...Let alone anybody else further east.

A shortage of room.

Not really...There's that bit of land where the site offices for the road/rail project are located, which currently has about 122 spaces of its own on flat ground:
http://www.nearmap.com/
Its perhaps about 80% of the land area of the proper 600 space park and ride, so you could not only fit 200 spaces on that bit of land, you're looking at about 480 potentially, and thats if they stuck to only 2 levels.

[Golliwog]

At least 150 cars at Gailes, Goodna parked out (Goodna only has around 243 car spaces).  Most places occupied at Wacol.  

If you're looking for places full of parking, then check out Ferny Grove after 8am. Even with the expanded parking they have put in, it's absolutely chockers, with people parking where ever they can fit their car.

[Jonno]

and Morningside by 7:30.

[Golliwog]

How many parks are there at Morningside? The view of FG from nearmap.com is interesting, if a little dated. Not sure what time of day but it was taken back on a Friday at the start of July.

[ozbob]

Richlands well and truely parked out time to build Ellen Grove with the additional 200 plus parking spaces that it would provide.

Here here! Would also give Forest Lake residents another option. It mostly wouldn't affect the timetable (possibly a few services in Peak might be affected a bit), as there is plenty of turnaround time at Richlands for the service to be extended to Ellen Grove without a drama (and Springfield for that matter when it opens!).

Yes indeed Petey3801, we haven't given up hope that Ellen Grove might be constructed greenfield.  After watching the Darra brownfield upgrade it would make a lot of sense from an operational, logistic and cost efficiency basis.  A rough estimate for a basic station with ramps (fully DDA compliant) car park etc. is around $12M.   Staged opening would also be achieved.  A large portion of Forest Lake, and the new residential areas adjacent to the Ellen Grove station to come would find it of much benefit.

[ozbob]

Couriermail --> Demand for inner-city carparks creates property boom as unused bays become prime rentals

[ozbob]

By building at EllenGrove now it would draw many walk up passengers from Forest Lake

No.
Presently, the absolute nearest walk up pax (Those living in Manix place) are 900m from the station site, which is a bit outside the walk up threshold (800m generally)...Let alone anybody else further east.

A shortage of room.

Not really...There's that bit of land where the site offices for the road/rail project are located, which currently has about 122 spaces of its own on flat ground:
http://www.nearmap.com/
Its perhaps about 80% of the land area of the proper 600 space park and ride, so you could not only fit 200 spaces on that bit of land, you're looking at about 480 potentially, and thats if they stuck to only 2 levels.

There are council buildings and a library and so forth planned to built when construction to Springfield is completed on the land where the site offices are presently located.

[jouzocha]

I think a brake needs to be put on new P&R's completley, in metro areas at least.  While I recognised a need for it in some areas (e.g. Rosewood), I think ever-expanding P&R at stations surrounded by suburbia is just madness.  Build decent bus interchanges and run bus services to meet EVERY train instead    Well perhaps not EVERY train during peak hours, but at least often enough that people catching the train don't have to wait long, but definitely EVERY train during off-peak (can't be that hard, QR only run every 30 minutes OP  )

If anything, the number of P&R spaces should be reduce where necessary to make space for bus interchanges.

Edit: alternatively, charge for P&R spaces.  Doesn't have to be much, $3 a day would probably discourage a lot of people that don't really need to use P&R (i.e., just can't be bothered to walk/take a bus) from doing it.  Exemptions could be made for e.g. people with disability parking permits and maybe seniors/OAPs as well (800m is a pretty long walk for some elderly people, even if the don't have DPP).

[O_128]

I think a brake needs to be put on new P&R's completley, in metro areas at least.  While I recognised a need for it in some areas (e.g. Rosewood), I think ever-expanding P&R at stations surrounded by suburbia is just madness.  Build decent bus interchanges and run bus services to meet EVERY train instead    Well perhaps not EVERY train during peak hours, but at least often enough that people catching the train don't have to wait long, but definitely EVERY train during off-peak (can't be that hard, QR only run every 30 minutes OP  )

If anything, the number of P&R spaces should be reduce where necessary to make space for bus interchanges.

The gov has put a stop on all park and rides wittin 10pm of the city which is a start, interesting how indro is our busiest station out of the CBd yet no parking

[jouzocha]

I think a brake needs to be put on new P&R's completley, in metro areas at least.  While I recognised a need for it in some areas (e.g. Rosewood), I think ever-expanding P&R at stations surrounded by suburbia is just madness.  Build decent bus interchanges and run bus services to meet EVERY train instead    Well perhaps not EVERY train during peak hours, but at least often enough that people catching the train don't have to wait long, but definitely EVERY train during off-peak (can't be that hard, QR only run every 30 minutes OP  )

If anything, the number of P&R spaces should be reduce where necessary to make space for bus interchanges.

The gov has put a stop on all park and rides wittin 10pm of the city which is a start, interesting how indro is our busiest station out of the CBd yet no parking

Good idea.  Maybe it should be expanded even further to 15-20km?

Perhaps if there is problem with parking around Indooroopilly or similar areas, the answer is to enforce restricted parking zones around railway stations.  4 hours should do it (most peoples working days will last longer than that).

BTW Scott Emerson is a complete moron and he demonstrates he knows very little about public transport in medium-high density/traffic areas.

[O_128]

I think a brake needs to be put on new P&R's completley, in metro areas at least.  While I recognised a need for it in some areas (e.g. Rosewood), I think ever-expanding P&R at stations surrounded by suburbia is just madness.  Build decent bus interchanges and run bus services to meet EVERY train instead    Well perhaps not EVERY train during peak hours, but at least often enough that people catching the train don't have to wait long, but definitely EVERY train during off-peak (can't be that hard, QR only run every 30 minutes OP  )
If anything, the number of P&R spaces should be reduce where necessary to make space for bus interchanges.

The gov has put a stop on all park and rides wittin 10pm of the city which is a start, interesting how indro is our busiest station out of the CBd yet no parking

Good idea.  Maybe it should be expanded even further to 15-20km
Perhaps if there is problem with parking around Indooroopilly or similar areas, the answer is to enforce restricted parking zones around railway stations.  4 hours should do it (most peoples working days will last longer than that).

BTW Scott Emerson is a complete moron and he demonstrates he knows very little about public transport in medium-high density/traffic areas.

Yes he is an idiot, I've just finished a report on indooroopilly , I'll try find the photos as I was there at 11am on a Friday and the streets were not filled with cars, most people walk to the station. A park and ride would make the issue worse , if people need to park go to chelmer or graceville

[SurfRail]

There is also the companion restriction on new park 'n' ride development within 5-10km of the coastline on the Gold and Sunshine Coasts if memory serves.  GCRT for instance will have no parking provided for, except possibly at Wardoo Street (currently a car park anyway, just only for GCCC staff and works vehicles).

[O_128]

There is also the companion restriction on new park 'n' ride development within 5-10km of the coastline on the Gold and Sunshine Coasts if memory serves.  GCRT for instance will have no parking provided for, except possibly at Wardoo Street (currently a car park anyway, just only for GCCC staff and works vehicles).

The light rail is and will be going through really good density, as such parking isn't needed, I can see all the oldies crying for parking though

[ozbob]

From the Couriermail 17th September 2011 page 5

Near-CBD parking super hubs on cards

[SurfRail]

NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Mr X]

Let me expand on that.

NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO!!!!!!!!!!!

!!!!!!!



We should not be encouraging this. When I saw the title I naturally assumed the state LNP but for BCC to be proposing it is pretty silly. Oh wait, they're LNP too. Sigh.
Can we please fire the planners that suggest idiotic ideas like this? You do not put park n' rides in the city, it's stupid and they only belong in areas where feeder buses to train stations are infeasible due to sparse housing etc. We should not be encouraging park n' ride on the inner city busway network (Garbo is fine, but anywhere further inbound is a definite NO).
Woolloongabba, Bowen Hills and Milton are future TOD style developments, there should be no place for parking in these places, even for residents (some parking for those who need it packaged with an apartment might be OK, but not 2-3 spaces per apartment). Heck, Woolloongabba is a future site for CRR AND has a busway. It is completely counter-productive and irresponsible to offer car parking or even worse (and what's suggested), a park n' ride.

We should be discouraging driving to the city, not encouraging it. Are BCC still stuck in the 60s?

[Stillwater]

All along the Bruce Highway (or just off it) throughout the Sunshine Coast, de facto park and ride stations have developed (see pic in story below).  These locations recorded greater use after the Brisbane floods, when Sunny Coast tradies began picking up work repairing Brisbane houses.  They go share-about in taking each other down and back.  White collar workers are also finding it easier to commute to Brisbane by car rather than taking a ramshackle train, or rail bus service.  To bring some order to the mess, the Sunshine Coast Council is looking to establish more orderly park and ride facilities.  This is another example of a state government that refuses to upgrade the SC line transferring the problems caused by that decision back to the council to fix.  Imagine when another 50,000 people are shoe-horned into Caloundra South, almost adjacent to Landsborough station, already the busiest station on the SC line.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/questnews/sunshine-coast/park-and-ride-facility-trial-to-help-commuters/story-fn8m0yxo-1226099142212

[somebody]

Will Quirkie get voted out at the council election which (I believe) is early next year.

[O_128]

Im sorry BCC, but any town planner working for BCC needs to be sacked asap, any idiot stupid enough to propose this is an idiot. The city isn't the clog point its the surrounding streets, If you want to build super carparks instead of feeder buses then suitable places would be 8mp,Petrie,etc and carparks are ugly,