Car parking - solutions?

[#Metro]

I think the Auditor General should audit TransLink. GoCard included.

Does it really make sense to spend all the money on this especially when the 385 is already on of the cities most 10 overcrowded routes?? Wouldn't it be better to increase frequency? After all, the 100 people who park (if new customers) will fill up 1.5 buses in peak time, when its already full, and yet no service changes are planned.

Station upgrades and improvements are good things, but frequency/vehicle capacity should be looked at.
Bendy buses on the route will help. In the longer term, I think the Elephant in the room is Budapest style LRT on the
trunk routes. More "flexible" buses could then specialise in supporting the trunk routes by running expresses, rockets and feeder services to the CBD. This way each mode does what it does best.

[somebody]

I think the Auditor General should audit TransLink. GoCard included.

The Auditor's job is to check the accuracy of the accounts.  I don't think that would achieve anything.

[mufreight]

An audit of Translink, its management practices and wxpendature would be most helpfull, one would imadine that if such an audit were to be carried out then it would result in a number of empty chairs at that end of George Street.

[somebody]

I would say that it more needs an efficiency expert.

Seems that there are a few control freaks in management (probably middle management) who just need to go.

[dwb]

That may be true but things aren't always as they 'seem'. I'd suggest it's a whole lot more complicated achieving change than most of the members of this forum seem to recognise. Besides, management generally do what they're told to by their bosses. Real change will come from a groundswell that forces our politicians' attention to more fruitful endeavours than continual road building. Sacking Translink or its management will in my mind achieve little.

Seems that there are a few control freaks in management who just need to go.

[somebody]

I have posted something similar in the past.  That doesn't change that it is obvious that the process to get anything done within Translink must be like moving through treacle.

[#Metro]

What we do

We conduct two types of audits, Financial and Compliance audits and Performance Management Systems audits.

Any significant issues we identify are made public through the Auditor General's Reports to Parliament, which are our primary communications to Parliament and the Queensland community. Click here to go to the latest report.

Subject to the Auditor-General's discretion, we can investigate issues referred to us concerning public sector financial management if sufficient information has been provided to determine that an investigation is warranted.

We conduct a financial and compliance audit of every Queensland public sector entity every year, as well as running a schedule of performance management systems audits across our client base.

During Financial and Compliance audits we look at our clients' financial statements to assess whether they are true and fair, and check their account keeping methods to ensure they meet prescribed requirements. Information Systems auditing is an integral part of the QAO audit process where we examine our clients' information systems and services. From these audits we can make recommendations to our clients on ways they can improve their financial systems and controls.

Performance Management Systems audits focus on the performance measurement systems our clients have in place to assess how effectively, efficiently and economically their objectives are being met.

http://www.qao.qld.gov.au/pages/about/about.html

[#Metro]

Some examples of the Auditor's work. They are the watchdog...

Transport Recommendations in the fast lane
http://www.translink.com.au/mediarelease.php?id=72

Auditor General Slams SEQ transport planning
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/southeast-queensland-transport-planning-in-disarray-20090623-culk.html

Other states- examples:

Sydney Buses blasted by Auditor General
http://sydney-central.whereilive.com.au/news/story/sydney-buses-blasted-by-auditor-general/

Auditor general report into rail franchising
http://download.audit.vic.gov.au/files/ptfranchising_report.pdf

[somebody]

Thanks for those links TT.  None of them hit on my real problem with Translink though: gross incompetence.

[dwb]

my real problem with Translink though: gross incompetence.

I just don't think that is true. The real issue is politics, not incompetence.

The auditor general's report in Qld criticised tin part the disjoint between QT and MR, but by the time it was published we already had DTMR, even if functionally they are still siloed.

Besides organisational culture takes time to change and if you look at TL's strategic plan and some of their documents they are (slowly) moving towards addressing management and policy deficiencies, so for instance one thing that people on this site have complained about recently is complaint handling, yet TL has recently adopted an ISO standard for complaint management. Obviously things won't change overnight but as a client you now have a better understanding of your rights and the process they will follow. This is just one positive example of how they organisation is improving.

[dwb]

Oh and as a footnote, the reason buses don't run on time (something which you've criticised frequently) is predominantly due to lack of bus priority, and in the majority of places it is not TL's role to provide this (ie they don't own or control the roads the buses run on).

[dwb]

As a second footnote, why do you think they want 100% Go card uptake so much?? I'm guessing the main reason is so they can effectively audit their providers, to enable better structured investment and reduce waste.

I'm not saying it can't be done without Go card, but at the moment I wouldn't be surprised if they were paying for 10 services and getting 9 a lot of the time.

[Jon Bryant]

This last point about bus priority is something that needs to change.  How can Translink ever provide world class bus service if the local council can dictate if the road can be converted to a bus lane or not.  Talk about having one hand tied behind your back.

[#Metro]

Oh and as a footnote, the reason buses don't run on time (something which you've criticised frequently) is predominantly due to lack of bus priority, and in the majority of places it is not TL's role to provide this (ie they don't own or control the roads the buses run on).

Who owns Translink? What stakes does each council have? I'm sure there was some model developed that had reps from each council/region on the Translink board. Perhaps this has changed?

Coronation Drive bus lanes should be re-claimed as a matter of priority. Interactions with cars diminishes the legibility and image of the service, it also might reduce bus times, which shifts more people to the car, which causes a self-reinforcing cycle leading to service degradation.

[somebody]

the reason buses don't run on time (something which you've criticised frequently)

I don't think this is true, unless it's not directed at me.  I've criticised Translink for (a) sequencing buses on the timetable such that 3 come at the same time a couple of times and (b) having a timetable which can't be maintained once.

my real problem with Translink though: gross incompetence.

I just don't think that is true. The real issue is politics, not incompetence.

So, then please explain how the northern busway delays occurred without incompetence?

Why are you defending Translink?  Do you work for them or something?

[ozbob]

From the Brisbanetimes click here!

No Go? No park

No Go? No park
TONY MOORE
April 20, 2010 - 5:42AM

Car poolers are taking up spaces at Brisbane's public transport park-and-ride centres, leading to calls for Go Card access to the facilities.

Rail Back on Track spokesman Robert Dow has said Go Cards should be used to open electronic gates at the carparks to ensure only train and bus commuters used them for free.

He said the problem was limiting car spaces for public transport users in Brisbane's west and assumed it was happening throughout Brisbane.

"We've heard of four or five people driving to a park and ride station, dropping off their cars and then driving in to the city or wherever in one car without using the train," Mr Dow said.

"It is a good thing that people are car pooling, but it is a bad thing when people are using up car parks in park-and-ride stations without using the public transport."

Mr Dow has suggested to Queensland Transport exit gates be installed, which could only be opened free-of-charge if a person's Go Card had been used that day.

"What we are suggesting is they park the car, go off and use their public transport ride to town, or whatever it is," he said.

"But if they haven't used the Go Card for travelling that day, then they pay a parking fee."

Mr Dow said gates could be installed relatively easily, with new facilities becoming serious investments.

A new Bribie Island park-and-ride station for buses will cost $4.2 million, while an extension to add 230 car spaces to the Dinmore station will cost $3 million.

There are also upgrades to existing park and rides stations at Burpengary and Morayfield.

"We think this is a way of making sure that park and ride facilities are kept for public transport using commuters," Mr Dow said.

Transport Minister Rachel Nolan was non-committal at the suggestion.

"There is no evidence to suggest that the misuse of park-and-rides is a huge issue," Ms Nolan said.

"With average car occupancy in SEQ falling I'd like to see more car pooling but would discourage the use of park'n'ride facilities for this purpose."

However, she would not provide an alternative on how to discourage commuters from using park-and-ride stations for free without using public transport.

Poll at Brisbane times click --> here!

[Jon Bryant]

A 15 minute city does not have Park and Rides. It has footpaths and local transport.

[somebody]

A 15 minute city does not have Park and Rides. It has footpaths and local transport.

There are some places that I would definitely agree with this one.  For instance, Upper Kedron, can't this part of town do better than the 367 bus?  I'd suggest a rocket service covering more of the suburb than the 367 does in the first instance.  This would help alleviate the pressure on the Ferny Grove car parking situation.

There are numerous other ways that we can come up with better ideas than car parking.

[ozbob]

http://www.translink.com.au/mediarelease.php?id=150

More car parks at Petrie train station

Tuesday 22 June 2010

Transport Minister Rachel Nolan and Member for Kallangur Mary-Anne O'Neill today inspected work on the next stage of upgrading carparking at Petrie Train Station.

Transport Minister Rachel Nolan said Petrie was one of the busiest train stations on the network with more than 4000 people travelling to and from station during peak times each day.

"We are starting works to transform a vacant block of land into 21 car parks on Taylor Street and bring it into line with other car parks at the station," Ms Nolan said.

"This will include clearing the site, installing kerb and channelling, laying a bitumen surface, line marking, extending the CCTV coverage and erecting proper fencing.

"This expansion will make a total of 520 car parking spaces at Petrie Train Station and we're still investigating opportunities for further expansion given the continued high demand for park 'n' ride facilities."

Ms O'Neill said that patronage on the Caboolture train line continued to grow with more than 20,000 passenger trips made during morning and afternoon peak times each day in the first quarter of this year.

"The Queensland Government recently completed $12.6 million of works at Petrie station to improve access, including a new footbridge and lift, as well as better security, lighting, shelter and an additional 106 car parks to the east of the station," Ms O'Neill said.

"This additional $250,000 project is part of the State Government's ongoing commitment to upgrading train stations across the TransLink network."

Ms O'Neill said building on the latest car park extension would be complete by the end of this month.

For more details on public transport, visit the TransLink website www.translink.com.au or phone the Call Centre on 13 12 30.

[Jon Bryant]

Deep Sigh!!!!!

[stephenk]

Deep Sigh!!!!!

Personally, I'm not sighing about 109 cars being taken off the road between Petrie and the CBD.

Feeder buses would be better, but don't suit all. For example you can't exactly pick up the kids from daycare, and then buy dinner from the shops by public transport in suburbia!

[Jon Bryant]

Deep Sigh!!!!!

Personally, I'm not sighing about 109 cars being taken off the road between Petrie and the CBD.

Feeder buses would be better, but don't suit all. For example you can't exactly pick up the kids from daycare, and then buy dinner from the shops by public transport in suburbia!

If we accept that we cannot change things then maybe but if we build our suburbs correctly then you can pickup the kids from daycare, and then buy dinner from the shops on the way home by public transport.  All we need to do is start trying rather than accepting defeat. 

PS 109 cars of the road between Petrie and the CBD is likley to be 0.001% of all cars. 

[stephenk]

Deep Sigh!!!!!

Personally, I'm not sighing about 109 cars being taken off the road between Petrie and the CBD.

Feeder buses would be better, but don't suit all. For example you can't exactly pick up the kids from daycare, and then buy dinner from the shops by public transport in suburbia!

If we accept that we cannot change things then maybe but if we build our suburbs correctly then you can pickup the kids from daycare, and then buy dinner from the shops on the way home by public transport.  All we need to do is start trying rather than accepting defeat.  

PS 109 cars of the road between Petrie and the CBD is likley to be 0.001% of all cars.  

Fine idea with new suburbs. Somewhat harder with existing suburbs!

109 cars = approx. 4 minutes of heavy traffic in one lane. (Or 1 day of traffic in the Clem7   )

[#Metro]

Personally, I'm not sighing about 109 cars being taken off the road between Petrie and the CBD.

Feeder buses would be better, but don't suit all. For example you can't exactly pick up the kids from daycare, and then buy dinner from the shops by public transport in suburbia!

I think it is the failure of planning. Dismal! Anything that is not a home-->work trip (weekend outings, dinner, social events, shopping, picking up the kids) is just "fluff" and not accommodated. Don't even get me started on cross-town and suburb-suburb transport. That Great Circle Line is public transport and planning abomination, a completely wasted opportunity because the frequency is so bad no one will bother to catch it.

It is also a planning thing. Existing suburbs are not too bad, they were built when mobility by car was not so great. But the newer ones, you must have a car to get anything or get anywhere.

If demand is the problem, make the bus shorter and smaller so that the frequency can be boosted.

[Golliwog]

If demand is the problem, make the bus shorter and smaller so that the frequency can be boosted.

What? Do you mean the actual bus shorter and smaller or the bus route? If you mean the bus route, then thats pointless, you could have an awesome frequency to a really small area, and smaller buses doesn't make much sense either, you still have to have 1 driver for each bus, so I don't see how this would increase the frequency.

[stephenk]

If demand is the problem, make the bus shorter and smaller so that the frequency can be boosted.

What? Do you mean the actual bus shorter and smaller or the bus route? If you mean the bus route, then thats pointless, you could have an awesome frequency to a really small area, and smaller buses doesn't make much sense either, you still have to have 1 driver for each bus, so I don't see how this would increase the frequency.

Smaller, lighter, and more fuel efficient midibuses are very popular in the UK, and allow for frequent services on routes where larger buses could not be justified at high frequency. They can also negotiate side roads easier than longer buses. I think they have huge potential in SE Queensland, particularly for rail feeder services, and serving low density urban sprawls.

I know of an example of a route in London which was originally serviced by midi-buses, and eventually grew traffic levels to justify the use of double deckers - a big success for public transport!

[#Metro]

Smaller, lighter, and more fuel efficient midibuses are very popular in the UK, and allow for frequent services on routes where larger buses could not be justified at high frequency. They can also negotiate side roads easier than longer buses. I think they have huge potential in SE Queensland, particularly for rail feeder services, and serving low density urban sprawls.

I know of an example of a route in London which was originally serviced by midi-buses, and eventually grew traffic levels to justify the use of double deckers - a big success for public transport!

Agreed! They are used on the Gold Coast. Maybe BT just likes huge buses?

[ozbob]

We have been advocating station buses for years ...

http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=532.msg4651#msg4651  june 21 2008

Thanks for the comments re Petrie MJ.

It is chaos around the streets at Oxley too.  Blackheath road is parked out each day leaving a narrow line with cars each side. A car barely fits through. I went up and had a look the other day, motorists screaming at each other, cars all over the place, pity the poor residents!  As the population increases at local housing estates the problem just escalates and gets worse.

Station buses would help.  Just part of the normal Translink network in terms of fares Stephen.
Go card could be just show and go, wouldn't be necessary to fit them with go devices initially, although that would be a longer term option.



Mythical Station Bus

Local business people who I have spoken too are having problems with commuters taking car parking spaces all days in their parks for customers.  People will park where they can I guess, they don't have much alternative at present.

Clearly, as a community we cannot continue with the problems just escalating. Something innovative needs to be done to break the cycle.

Car parks will always be needed, but if pressure can be reduced by the use of feeder buses the situation might be manageable.

[ozbob]

A citizen has started distributing form letters concerning his/her concerns with car parking at Oxley rail.  It just further highlights the present TransLink approach of 'park and ride' is a monumental failure.  Station buses, in conjunction with more active transport promotion is the way forward.  Suburbs of car parks is absurd.

The letter found on Oxley rail station this morning. 

[Mozz]

The parking restrictions (putin place by the BCC) included marked bays, 3 hour parking during weekdays and some additional yellow lines are welcomed by the residents who actually live in the vicinity of the Oxley station.

My street (a quiet culdesac) is now once again usuable by the residents with only 14 spaces available for use for all day parking for those who live outside the area, using the street as a parking lot. I used to count in excess of 25 commuter vehicles in the street down both sides creating a hazard for residents exiting their driveways, making rubbish bin day a nightmare and generally reducing the residential amenity.

From my observations, there are still carparks available in the actual station carparks up to at least 7.30am which is better than a many stations. Better intra suburb buses linking to the railway stations and indeed better bus provision from the centenary and surrounding suburbs would help this situation.

[somebody]

The letter is just a whinge-fest.  Any pollie reading that would have difficulty understanding what they want them to do, given that a 600 space car park is soon to open at Richlands.

[#Metro]

Should parking be charged for at rail stations?

[somebody]

Should parking be charged for at rail stations?

Yes, I think so.  It cost money to provide, so why not pass on the cost to those that use it.  Althought it would have to be a lower rate than CBD parking.

[Derwan]

Should parking be charged for at rail stations?

Yes.  Go Card swipe in and out.  Provided PT was used in between - or the total time parked is less than an hour (e.g. seeing family off), the cost should be as low as $2.  Park all day and not use PT, the cost should be more like $7.

This would encourage people to walk to the station (if they're not THAT far from it), ride a push bike, get dropped off or catch a feeder bus (if one actually exists).  The car parks would then be available for those who live too far from the station and are not able to catch alternative transport.

The downside to this would be that more people will park in the streets to avoid the charge.  So - unfortunately - while I agree with charging for parking, I don't believe this is actually the solution for congested side-streets.

[ozbob]

The go card does offer the potential for either monitoring free parking for genuine commuters or nominal rates for genuine commuters.  TransLink have said publicly that there were no plans to charge for parking at rail/bus stations park and ride facilities, but in the longer term I am not so sure.

I think there needs to be alternatives eg. station buses in place,  before parking fees brought in.  In some locations, outer fringes it would be lot more inequitable to be charging for parking as there are no alternatives?   The point of a never-ending mindless expansion of park and ride is that is not sustainable.  

Richlands is only a temporary fix, and won't do much for the Centenary suburbs, which is a source of great pressure for Oxley parking.

More buses into Darra I reckon.

[ozbob]

From the Northern Times Caboolture 25th June 2010 page 5

More spaces for station - but are there enough?

More spaces for station - but are there enough?

By BERNIE DOWLING

ANOTHER 21 parking spaces at Petrie rail station were announced by Transport Minister Rachel Nolan and Member for Kallangur Mary Anne O'Neill on Tuesday. Ms Nolan said further parking bays might be built.

"We're still investigating opportunities for further expansion given the high demand for park `n' ride," she said.

Kallangur resident Fleur Harrison, who works in Brisbane city and drives to Petrie station on weekday mornings, said she thought 21 new parks were vastly inadequate.

"I might be able to find one of the new spots, because I travel early, but a lot of others will still miss out," she said.

Ms Harrison said more than 1700 passengers used the morning service at Petrie and it was a station where express trains stopped. The 21 new bays will be created on a vacant block on Taylor St.

Comment:  There are never enough. Time to change the paradigm ...

[Jon Bryant]

And not just on park and rides!!!!

[#Metro]

21 spaces are nothing.

A train can carry 1000 people at crush load. There are never enough.
Time to put on more dedicated feeder buses! Trial Trial Trial.

[somebody]

Feeder buses would be better, but don't suit all. For example you can't exactly pick up the kids from daycare, and then buy dinner from the shops by public transport in suburbia!

They are likely to suit somewhat more than 109 people, if it is any kind of service.

[ozbob]

Minister for Transport
The Honourable Rachel Nolan
28/07/2010

Dinmore park'n'ride stage one opens

Commuters now have access to 80 more carparks at the Dinmore train station with stage one of the $3 million Dinmore park 'n' ride extension officially opening today.

Transport Minister Rachel Nolan said Dinmore train station park 'n' ride will almost double in size once completed with an additional 230 car parks adding to the 254 existing spaces.

"Stage one - 80 carparks - opens to the public today, while stage two - 150 carparks and access from Brisbane Road - will be opened for use in September," she said.

"Dinmore is a popular station for passengers to catch the train due to its location at a major junction for access routes including Brisbane Road, Cunningham Highway and the Ipswich Motorway.

"The convenient location and additional 230 park 'n' ride spaces will encourage people to travel from surrounding areas to take advantage of this easier access to public transport.

"Currently more than 1000 passengers pass through Dinmore train station during morning and afternoon peak times alone and upgrades such as this will allow for this number to grow.

"The State Government's tough economic decisions mean we have been able to invest in improvements to the public transport network such as the Rail Station Renovation project which is the biggest revamp of South East Queensland stations since services began in the 1860s."

Ms Nolan said the upgrade to the park 'n' ride facility included safety features such as security fences, bright lighting, security cameras and landscaping.

"Commuters can feel safe and secure when parking their cars due to the safety features included in the enhanced park 'n' ride," she said.

Member for Bundamba Jo Ann Miller said the extension will be welcomed by local commuters.

"These extra carparks will encourage more people to catch the train and will help alleviate pressure on street parking," she said.

"I would like to take this opportunity to ask residents and commuters for their patience while stage two of this important piece of infrastructure is being constructed."

For more information about public transport, please visit www.translink.com.au or phone 13 12 30, 24 hours a day, seven days a week.

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