Car parking - solutions?

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/9NewsQueensland/status/1040158593637445632

https://twitter.com/Robert_Dow/status/1040273874573815812

https://twitter.com/Robert_Dow/status/1040275953081970688

[ozbob]

Sent to all outlets:

14th September 2018

The High Cost of FREE Parking: $68,000 for a car parking space

Greetings,

RAIL Back on Track welcomes the announcement by Transport Minister Mark Bailey to add another 650 car parking spaces at a cost of $44.5 million to Springfield Central Station.

Unfortunately, this works out to be an extraordinary $68,000 per parking space, more than the cost of most family cars. Park and ride costs are astronomical and contribute little to patronage. The simple fact is that although welcome, 650 spaces doesn't even fill one Queensland Rail train. Park and ride is quickly saturated, where as feeder buses and active transport by comparison to park and ride, are essentially without limit.

$68,000 per parking space is an enormous subsidy to car users. We have never heard of that kind of money spent on cyclist parking, for example.

It's about time that feeder and route buses in the area were improved. Perth (Transperth) has a great feeder bus network and that has allowed transport authorities to charge $2 for park and ride car parking at all Transperth train stations, which helps to balance park and ride usage. Paid parking for park and ride is only appropriate when there is a proper alternative in terms of proper feeder bus networks - lacking generally in SEQ.

Springfield Land Corporation has plans for high density dwellings immediately next to Springfield Central Station. If people can live next to the station, then they don't need to bring their car!

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track https://backontrack.org

References:

Park 'n' ride upgrade to add 650 new car spaces https://www.couriermail.com.au/questnews/southwest/land-decision-made-on-springfield-central-multistorey-park-n-ride/news-story/0c12b6bdb25e2c923334920ac78dfc25

Parking https://www.transperth.wa.gov.au/parking

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/Robert_Dow/status/1040336080711540736

https://twitter.com/Robert_Dow/status/1040343082716127232

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/Robert_Dow/status/1040350641699250176

[ozbob]

Sent to all outlets:

4th August 2018

Some musings on the present park n' ride mess in SEQ

Greetings,

Been a lot of media attention of late of the lack of parking spaces at railway stations. Most of the park and ride parking spaces are at railway stations although there are some bus and ferry terminals that have car parks managed by Brisbane City Council.  The car parks at railway stations are managed by Queensland Rail.  To find out the number of car parks provided at stations you can check at the ' Find your station ' page at Queensland Rail ( https://www.queenslandrail.com.au/forcustomers/stationsmaps/stationfinder).  This only returns official parking bays.  For example if you check Gailes, it says there are 0 bays.  But in fact, particularly weekdays, there will be up to several hundreds of commuters cars parked along the verge parallel to the railway line. Another web site ' Brisbane Park 'n' Rides and Commuter Car Spaces ( https://www.visitbrisbane.com.au/parking/brisbane-park-and-rides ) says Gailes has 77  spaces.  Even at a simple level of documenting accurately the number of parking spaces there are inconsistencies.  Little wonder people are confused.

The park n' ride paradigm for Brisbane and SEQ is broken.  This is reflected in the constant frustration and anger put forward by commuters who cannot get a park.  Those who do, must leave earlier and earlier to secure a park.  If you are a late start worker you have no chance of a parking place.   Politicians like to make announcements to the effect that we will be expanding the parking at station X.  They rarely, if ever, actually stop and think that if we keep on expanding the parking spaces the suburbs will be turned into giant car parks!  We are fast approaching a limit of what is a reasonable amount of parking.  Park n' ride is very expensive to establish.  On average each new parking space costs $50,000.  So to half fill at train with 500 drivers it costs $25 Million.  Clearly this is far too expensive and not sustainable.

In an article recently published by ABC News ' Commuters frustrated by lack of park-and-ride spaces, fuelling safety fears '  Mr Matt Longland DDG TransLink was reported as commenting:

" ... The head of Translink, Matt Longland, said it was working to create more parking.

"We have 30,000 parks across the network at the moment, mostly on the train network," he said.

"In the last couple of years we've added 4,000 places and now we're planning 3,000 more.

"We do a formal survey every 12 months of park and rides to look at overflow onto local streets and it helps us find the problem areas and what places to put investment in."

He said it was about balancing the amount of car parks to the nearby areas.

"It's important to not have acres of car parks around stations, especially for commuters that park there for eight to 10 hours a day as it can kill off the area around the station," Mr Longland said.

"We really want to encourage the development of the centre and consolidate car parking and allow things like retail and employment around stations."

And further on

" ... "We know we need to provide more work where it's needed most and to be able to let customers know where car parks are full," he said.

"We have conditions of use at the entrance of the car park — saying it is for commuters."

He said in future Translink would require commuters to scan their Go Cards when entering the park and ride.

"This will help us understand what people are using the network when and allow us to track when car parks are full," he said.

"The more car parks we put in, the more we would fill up; part of the solution is how we can encourage people to use the integration system, like feeder services."

Bingo Mr Longland!  " part of the solution is how we can encourage people to use the integration system, like feeder services."

This is a great weakness in our public transport network in SEQ.  The feeder bus network is abysmal.  Poor frequency, poor span of operation and a lack of coverage forces people to drive.  From now we need to focus on improving our feeder bus networks, and providing better support for active transport (bicycle and walking).  Expanding park n' ride just exacerbates the problems.  It attracts more vehicles, with more parking overflow issues blocking streets, driveways, and contributes to local road congestion and the quality life of the local community suffers.

A jurisdiction that does park n' ride well is Perth WA ( https://www.transperth.wa.gov.au/parking ).  They charge a small fee for their park n' ride $2, but importantly they have excellent feeder bus services.  People have a real alternative.  The parking charge helps keep the parking rationed to a degree and the overall outcome is much better for passenger and commuter.

Due to the poor nature of feeder bus services in SEQ generally, it would not be appropriate at present to charge a fee for park n' ride, but as better feeder services become established, and as indicated above TransLink are keen to use to the go card for parking management, it would be an easy thing to do.  Such revenue could then be feed back into improving feeder bus services.

It is time to change the mindless paradigm of just expanding parking spaces.  We need to be a lot smarter.

Best wishes,
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track https://backontrack.org

This is a real mess. Hopefully a new authority can get to work to put in place proper policies and support for feeders etc.

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/Robert_Dow/status/1040452665531031552

[ozbob]

Queensland Times 17th September 2018 page 13

Station parking goes off the rails

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/Robert_Dow/status/1041358718586109952

[ozbob]

Southern Star --> Altandi Station parking woes worsen

COMMUTERS will be fined $130 if they continue parking in the streets around a busy train station on Brisbane's southside.

Parking limits will be enforced near Sunnybank's Altandi Station in a bid to stop commuters clogging suburban streets.

Residents near the station have battled the problem since 2014, when the train timetable changed to make Altandi the main station between Loganlea and Park Road on the Gold Coast/Airport express service.

The change was made to improve connectivity with bus services to the CBD, University of Queensland and Griffith University.

Prior to that the stop was nearby Coopers Plains.

The demand for car parks continues to increase near Altandi Station and has led to verbal clashes between residents and commuters.

Parked vehicles have been damaged by other cars squeezing along narrow, clogged streets and residents say access is often blocked by commuter vehicles.

Rubbish bins are often missed on collection days because the garbage truck cannot gain access.

Passenger numbers have more than doubled at Altandi Station since 2012 — the biggest growth in southeast Queensland, according to a right to information request by public transport advocacy group Rail Back on Track.

While the parking woes are not a Brisbane City Council issue, Cr Kim Marx (Runcorn) has stepped in.

"(State Government) didn't do any community consultation (because) they didn't have to," Cr Marx said.

"The fallout has been huge as a result of that decision. "It is affecting all the residents. The easiest solution is to change the timetable back — maybe I am making it simple."

Within the next eight weeks, No Parking signs, which will be effective from 7am-9am Monday to Friday, will be erected in four nearby streets.

She said it had been a painstaking and long process but parking restriction would be put in place in Wana, Tarrawonga, Lampson, and Maud streets.

Cr Marx has already dealt with issues at Alconah St.

"The problem will just shift and move out wider and wider," she said.

Cr Marx wants the State Government to create additional carparking on the land they own on Gundooee St.

What residents think

Altandi Precinct Commuter Parking Action Group spokesman Chris Seen said more than 250 vehicles were parked in streets near Altandi Station every day.

He said vehicles overflowed from the minimal parking at the station, "causing traffic congestion and inconveniencing residents".

APCPAG has conducted a number of commuter surveys.

"Residents are expected to suffer in silence while their streets are used for carparking while the State Government ignores its responsibility to provide park 'n' ride car parks," Mr Seen said.

"Residents are angry with their neighbourhood being used as a de facto park 'n' ride car park.

"If we give up then nothing will happen, so we will push on and get encouragement from other groups and lobbyists who will support us in getting the outcome we need."

MP Peter Russo weighs in on the issue

Labor State Member for Toohey Peter Russo said senior officers from TransLink recently met with Sunnybank residents living near Altandi Station to discuss access issues.

"As a result of this feedback, TransLink will undertake a planning study to consider possible access improvements for all modes, including investigating land availability to determine whether there may be any feasible options for park 'n' ride expansion," he said.

"People in the area are upset with the congestion caused by cars parking in the vicinity of the station.

"I will need to work with Cr Kim Marx to sort this out.

"The problem can't be sorted by one arm of government it will need both arms of government working together to solve this complex issue.

"I will continue to lobby both my government and continue to speak to the residents and Cr Marx to reach a solution. It is not something that can be solved overnight."
What TransLink says

A TransLink spokesman said: "Altandi Train Station had become an attractive interchange and boarding location for rail services.

"This is because Gold Coast trains stop there regularly and high frequency, all-day bus routes 130 and 140 also connect there," he said.

"Altandi Train Station has 87 car parks and is also serviced by several local feeder buses. "Transfers between bus and rail have grown by 25 per cent since 2014.

"Acquiring school land for a park 'n' ride expansion is not currently under consideration.

"The Queensland Government is committed to improving park 'n' ride facilities, with more than 30,000 spaces available across the southeast Queensland network and a $114 million investment to deliver another 2300 new spaces."

[ozbob]

^ I have been in correspondence with Altandi Precinct Commuter Parking Action Group spokesman Chris Seen.  Chris has done a lot of excellent survey work and has really shown what the problem is. The residents are very frustrated and are mounting a strong case for parking restrictions in the streets and some park 'n' ride expansion.  There is some vacant land opposite Altandi station that is QR land, was used for staging when the triplication work was done. It is that triangle shaped land along Gundooee Street.

[#Metro]

I think it's ok to park on the street - it's public land - provided that it isn't unsafe or obstructing. Introducing marked bays, banning parking along one side of the street and charging a fee for all day parking are solutions here.

Altandi has feeder bus access, so parking charges are possible, unlike other stations.

[techblitz]

Given how busy/popular the area is....paid parking is a good opportunity for the station. Demand is obviously high......
Personally though i would like to see the station pushed as more of a kiss and ride or drop-off station....develop those facilities first. You only have to take a look at how many people get dropped off by car down the road at the main sunnybank hills calam rd bus stop to get a feel for the popularity of kiss and ride...

[SurfRail]

Doesn't it tell all that the local councillor's initial reaction was "make Altandi less useful"?

Tools.

[red dragin]

Doesn't it tell all that the local councillor's initial reaction was "make Altandi less useful"?

Tools.

And surely a coincidence that Coopers Plains is outside her electorate, and therefore not her problem?

[ozbob]

RACQ --> Park'n'Ride the priority at Altandi

The State's peak motoring body has urged TransLink and the State Government to expand Park'n'Ride at Altandi station near Sunnybank, to ensure commuters could still access public transport after changes to parking restrictions in the area.


Park'n'Ride the priority at Altandi

The State's peak motoring body has urged TransLink and the State Government to expand Park'n'Ride at Altandi station near Sunnybank, to ensure commuters could still access public transport after changes to parking restrictions in the area.

The Southern Star reported commuters would be fined $130 if they continued to park in the streets around the busy train station on Brisbane's southside.

RACQ Head of Public Policy Rebecca Michael said a blanket ban on street parking around stations was not a good option and could discourage people from using public transport which alleviated congestion on major roads.

"People need to be able to access high quality public transport services by either catching a connecting bus or rail service, walking or cycling to the station, or driving and parking," Dr Michael said.

"A blanket ban will likely result in pushing people to park on other streets, shifting the problem, or people will drive and congestion will be worsened."

Dr Michael said Brisbane City Council and the State Government needed to work together to take a balanced and staged approach to managing parking impacts.

"On-street parking spaces can be marked to manage the number and location of parked vehicles and ensure bins can still be placed by residents," she said.

"We're  urging TransLink and the State Government to prioritise a Park'n'Ride expansion at Altandi station to ensure their customers can continue conveniently accessing services in the future without impacting local amenity.

[SurfRail]

If they can afford to build more park and ride capacity, they can afford to put a proper bus interchange in that feeds people into the rail system - instead of forcing them to walk extended distances in the elements through a car park or down a suburban street to get between buses and trains.

[ozbob]

Interviews on ABC Radio Brisbane Drive Steve Austin with Altandi Precinct Commuter Parking Action Group (APCPAG)
spokesman Chris Seen 18th September 2018.

Here --> https://backontrack.org/docs/abcbris/abcbrisbane_seen18sep18.mp3  13.3mb

Short follow up from Steve Austin reading a statement from TransLink:

Here --> https://backontrack.org/docs/abcbris/abcbrisbane_austin18sep18.mp3  1.8mb

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/Robert_Dow/status/1042120945492578304

[ozbob]

Altandi, yet another ' world clarse ' example of SEQ public transport failure administration and policy in action.

And still the State Government sits on the ' integrated public transport ' model, as everything continues to get worse.

We really need some leadership and decisive action  in the Transport portfolio.  There is very little at present sadly.

https://twitter.com/Robert_Dow/status/1042155914201976833

[James]

Again, people driving to train stations because the feeder bus networks are terrible, or in the case of Altandi, non-existent. If you want to fix the problem, you need to both restrict parking and put on more feeder buses (instead of firing more rockets at the CBD).

But that would be sensible, and both tiers of government seem committed to nonsensical solutions.

[#Metro]

Again, people driving to train stations because the feeder bus networks are terrible, or in the case of Altandi, non-existent. If you want to fix the problem, you need to both restrict parking and put on more feeder buses (instead of firing more rockets at the CBD).

But that would be sensible, and both tiers of government seem committed to nonsensical solutions.

Altandi is accessible from BUZ 130 and 140. And a parking lot would only release 60 spaces, fills just 1 carriage.

A 5 storey car park would hold 5 x 60 (approx) = 300. A bit better, but would cost around 300 x $67,000 = $20 million approx.

For the cost of paint and signs, parking bays could be sprayed on the street which would solve the issues with bins put out being blocked and the street being made too narrow.

I would be interested to know where these commuters were driving from - QLD Gov't should be able to determine that by surveying the number plates, matching it with the location from car registration data held by TMR and mapping that on a map.

If they are more local - bike access improvements may also be in order.

[Cazza]

Again, people driving to train stations because the feeder bus networks are terrible, or in the case of Altandi, non-existent. If you want to fix the problem, you need to both restrict parking and put on more feeder buses (instead of firing more rockets at the CBD).

But that would be sensible, and both tiers of government seem committed to nonsensical solutions.

When winning votes comes into play, common sense goes out the window.

[ozbob]

Oxley was previously like Altandi is at present.  We did a bit of advocacy work around 2008 or so, similar to what Chris Sheen is doing for Altandi.  The narrow streets at Oxley were getting parked out, such that at times even rubbish truck access was blocked.  There was frequent angry road rage type situations due to both sides of streets parked, driveway problems as so forth.  So what was done was as you suggest Metro, painted parking spots were laid out on the roads around the station but only on one side, and only where traffic and resident flows were not impacted.  The other sides were no parking or limited parking say 3 hour maximum.  The other approach is 15 minute parking only between 7am - 9am, this is done at Goodna near the park to stop commuters taking the parking for the park.

Typical overflow parking in an Oxley street in 2008.  This cannot happen now, one side is short term only so doesn't get parked out in the same way



Photograph R Dow 21 Feb 2008

Park 'n' ride  ' policy ' is kneejerk and not properly coordinated 10 years on. Same stupid stuff going on.  Feeder bus and better active transport support must be done from here.  Some park 'n' ride is needed BUT IT IS NOT the solution, only a small part of the solution. 

We all know that, getting that through the elected politicians is a work in progress.  A work that must be continued no matter how frustrating at times.

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/Robert_Dow/status/1042188363527184384

[techblitz]

Altandi is accessible from BUZ 130 and 140

precisely.....they both provide HF access to rail from Calamvale,sunnybank hills,algester,parkinson and last but not least the very popular browns plains.

Certain members are simplistically muddying the definition of a rail feeder to suit their own arguments in their posts.
They need to step up and clarify parameters on what dictates a feeder bus or station

eg: minimum distance a bus must stop to the rail platform before being regarded as a feeder....and if non terminating routes like the 130/140/330/345/100  which actually use stops named directly after the train station...and have plenty transferring at those stops...then what are they classed as/what name do you give them?

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/feed

Going by that definition....I would have thought any bus that has people jumping off it and those very people walk to the train station then it is classed as 'feeding' or giving food the rail line.....vice versa as well...

[ozbob]

Can someone do a map ( use google? )  with the bus routes around Altandi please?

A lot of buses run along Mains Road but are they really feeders?  Or is the fact that they pass Altandi just coincidental. 

https://www.google.com/maps/@-27.5838727,153.0628722,150a,35y,345.49h,44.98t/data=!3m1!1e3

If they can afford to build more park and ride capacity, they can afford to put a proper bus interchange in that feeds people into the rail system - instead of forcing them to walk extended distances in the elements through a car park or down a suburban street to get between buses and trains.

Yo.  Altandi really has no proper bus interchange. Hard to encourage folks to use them under those circumstances. Most will stay on the BUZ buses etc.

[Cazza]

I'll do a quick map up.

Coincidently, I happened to be on the 362 (Brookside-bound) earlier today and coming down Blackbutt St towards Silvertop St, cars were lined down either side of the road to almost Alpine St, with the bus just squeezing through. Google Maps: https://www.google.com.au/maps/@-27.4110294,152.9563568,3a,75y,0.21h,65.56t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sqQfI5MJMIx76IdKLy5poPA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656. If another car or even bus were to come the other way, someone would have had to reversed back and I don't like the sound of a bus doing that.

Keppera Station only has 22 carparks according to TransLink and the 362 is the only bus passing the station (with 11 northbound and 10 southbound trips per weekday).

[SurfRail]

Certain members are simplistically muddying the definition of a rail feeder to suit their own arguments in their posts.
They need to step up and clarify parameters on what dictates a feeder bus or station

Such as?

It's abundantly clear to me that Altandi is not a good example of bus rail interchange, if you think it is then fantastic for you.

[techblitz]

Certain members are simplistically muddying the definition of a rail feeder to suit their own arguments in their posts.
They need to step up and clarify parameters on what dictates a feeder bus or station

Such as?

It's abundantly clear to me that Altandi is not a good example of bus rail interchange, if you think it is then fantastic for you.

Did I say was an adequately designed bus-rail station? Geez....of course its not because buses from both directions cant pull directly into the station and people have to negotiate busy mains rd to get to the platforms....its may not be a proper dedicated feeder station but it still serves a purpose in connecting bus users from the south into the rail network.

[SurfRail]

And if the network was properly oriented around feeding into it, and there was infrastructure in place to facilitate that, then it would have an even more significant interchange function.  It's currently nothing more than an afterthought.

As it stands, if you aren't paying attention you wouldn't even know there is a station there.  Basic stuff like actually putting a decent sized pylon sign on the main road where a station is behind the scenes - which is what happens everywhere else - is completely forgotten about here.

[Cazza]

Map Done -> https://www.google.com.au/maps/d/viewer?mid=1EzHuasjith2fDWkngz84z8taMFlwgA7q&ll=-27.60773003947372%2C153.0563641&z=12

And yes, the 136 is an actual route, I am not trolling, the 136 actually exists

[ozbob]

Map Done -> https://www.google.com.au/maps/d/viewer?mid=1EzHuasjith2fDWkngz84z8taMFlwgA7q&ll=-27.60773003947372%2C153.0563641&z=12

And yes, the 136 is an actual route, I am not trolling, the 136 actually exists

Thanks Cazza, great job!

[#Metro]

A feeder bus does not have to be a dedicated feeder bus or terminate at a station to feed it.

It just needs the ability for pax to make the transfer.

[techblitz]

^ definition at Wikipedia....sounds about right..

Feeder bus services are designed to pick up passengers in a certain locality, and take them to a transfer point where they make an onward journey on a trunk service. This can be another bus, or a rail based service such as a tram, rapid transit or train. Feeder buses may act as part of a wider local network, or a regional coach network

The only way you could exclude altandi as a transfer point is if the buses bypass the station completely....which they don't.

[#Metro]

Agreed, Techblitz. Plenty of people transfer from bus to train at Toowong station from BUZ 412, 444, and 402, for example. There's no bus interchange there at all.

Were people going to argue that 402 is a feeder, while 412 is not?

[ozbob]

Looking at the map that Cazza has done up of the bus routes that pass Altandi station there seems to be a black hole east of the station.   This might be adding to the parking problems, which seem to be localised on that side of the line.  It is no surprise that punters want to access the express rail services that stop at Altandi.  So maybe TransLink needs to look at some feeders to Altandi to cover the black hole area. 

Am I reading it right?  Also there is not much in terms of interchange facilities, so maybe that needs to be looked at improved.  Even well placed signage might help.

[#Metro]

I think we need more info about the problem before we look at solutions.
The number plate survey would be very valuable in revealing exactly where the cars are coming from. Maybe they come from East of the station, maybe not.

Cycling should also be considered as a mode as well.

Mains Rd might be busy, but so is Coronation Drive when pax walk from 412 or 444 to Toowong station.

[techblitz]

Street view of the parking congestion on the 3 culprit streets..
https://goo.gl/maps/XDMYfffDkgN2

Access to the station on the eastside is all whack due to the parks/river.....

Cycling should also be considered as a mode as well.

Yep cycling should be pushed hard.
There is also a nifty bike path linking Nathan rd/Daw rd straight into altandi st. 10 minute ride to the station max from there..
https://goo.gl/maps/UdC5CLNZ4q42
Its actually easier to access altandi station by bike than car if you live west of warrigal rd..

[ozbob]

Some feeders could use Daw Road and Altandi Street.  This is a good location for dedicated feeder station buses, Altandi is a magnet.

[Paul B]

The word "feeder" must evoke an image of being behind 10 or more slow moving pensioners dragging 4-5 large bags of shopping and also wanting to stop and have a chat with the bus driver, not realising the 10 anxious people who are hurrying to make a tight train connection.
We could use the word "feeder" on coverage routes that do suburbia to shopping centre, and use a new
warm buzzword for the actual feeders 
I'll hazard to guess that this bus network reform won't apply to BT bus services?