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Car parking - solutions?

Started by ozbob, February 21, 2008, 19:20:16 PM

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ozbob

#1360
ABC News --> Commuters frustrated by lack of park-and-ride spaces, fuelling safety fears

QuoteConcerns persist over the availability of park-and-ride spaces near train stations throughout south-east Queensland and the flow-on effects for commuter safety.

Discussion about the issue reignited recently after Brisbane woman Jacqueline Smart used Facebook to show how far she had to walk at night to her car from the Darra train station.

"There's no consideration about how people are going to get to the station from their car as there's insufficient carparks at any park and ride," she told ABC Radio Brisbane's Craig Zonca and Rebecca Levingston.

"Also, in terms of paths, lights and security, sometimes you're walking more than 800 metres through a dark industrial area to get back to your car when you finish work.

"On the day I posted the footage, there was roadworks with no consideration of the blocking of all the car parks."

Ms Smart said she had written to Translink as well as local, state and federal politicians about her concerns.

"The local member has done a lighting review and contacted Energex, so in one street they have upgraded lighting, but it's about the parking."
Taking the issue to court

Ms Smart is set to appear in court to appeal a fine after she parked in a garden bed close to the station.

"In May, a main road was blocked off for resurfacing and people were parking over people's driveways and businesses' driveways, and I parked on a garden bed in the park and ride," she said.

"I thought, 'I'm going to risk the fine' ... and I did get a fine."

Nevertheless, Ms Smart said she was determined to keep pursuing the issue.

"I respect that people can't park willy-nilly as it's dangerous, however it was more dangerous for me to not have a park near the station," she said.

"I've decided I'll go to court instead of paying the $50 fine and it may end up costing me $1,000 to pay legal fees and to have a day off, but we need to make it safe for people to get to work."

Callers to ABC Radio Brisbane said more was needed to help commuters park and ride at local stations.

Balancing carparking with local communities

The head of Translink, Matt Longland, said it was working to create more parking.

"We have 30,000 parks across the network at the moment, mostly on the train network," he said.

"In the last couple of years we've added 4,000 places and now we're planning 3,000 more.

"We do a formal survey every 12 months of park and rides to look at overflow onto local streets and it helps us find the problem areas and what places to put investment in."

He said it was about balancing the amount of car parks to the nearby areas.

"It's important to not have acres of car parks around stations, especially for commuters that park there for eight to 10 hours a day as it can kill off the area around the station," Mr Longland said.

"We really want to encourage the development of the centre and consolidate car parking and allow things like retail and employment around stations."

In relation to Ms Smart's case, Mr Longland said it was a council issue.

"We know we need to provide more work where it's needed most and to be able to let customers know where car parks are full," he said.

"We have conditions of use at the entrance of the car park — saying it is for commuters."

He said in future Translink would require commuters to scan their Go Cards when entering the park and ride.

"This will help us understand what people are using the network when and allow us to track when car parks are full," he said.

"The more car parks we put in, the more we would fill up; part of the solution is how we can encourage people to use the integration system, like feeder services."

Interesting that they are thinking of using the go card for park n' ride.  Paid parking is on the way!

But they will have to have some dramatic improvements in terms of ' feeder services ' first and better support for active transport too!
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red dragin

May not even be paid parking. The next Gen system should be able to operate a boom gate and tag on at the same time. Same for exiting.

Give this is what the fare gates (when on) already do, it may even be possible now. With the current system the sticking point might be measuring cars in vs cars out and not allowing any more vehicles to enter until space becomes available. Handling if someone tags off on the platform then tries to exit could be an issue too for the current system.

SurfRail

It should be paid parking.  $3 per day would be perfectly workable, then increase each year when fares go up.  Put the money directly into improving feeder buses.

They did it in Perth, which is even less dense than Brisbane.  Nobody died.  (I was there on the weekend and I'm already feeling withdrawal symptoms.)
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Paul B

Too idealistic for Brisbane, SurfRail. Can you imagine the local 10 news doing a segment of how commuters are "devastated/heartbroken"
and that there's NO WAY for them to get to the station. And because theyre a busy mother, that means they NEED to park at the station
or their life is over.
Likely that paid parking will come in, but it won't be going towards feeder buses.

SurfRail

I can imagine it, but I don't care - because I can apply critical thinking skills.  Unfortunately most others can't.
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ozbob

Quote from: SurfRail on July 31, 2018, 14:53:27 PM
It should be paid parking.  $3 per day would be perfectly workable, then increase each year when fares go up.  Put the money directly into improving feeder buses.

They did it in Perth, which is even less dense than Brisbane.  Nobody died.  (I was there on the weekend and I'm already feeling withdrawal symptoms.)

:-t

Yep, definitely the way forward.  Paid park n' ride, proper feeder bus, means parking is manageable.  Perth is streets ahead of us.

Park n' ride is expensive to provide, only proper there is some return on the investment by those who use it.
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ozbob

Transperth Parking

https://www.transperth.wa.gov.au/parking

" When you park at a Transperth train station on it'll cost you $2. The fee applies per 24hr period or part there of. "
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SurfRail

Basic maths here for Gold Coast PNR sites.  I'm assuming that each PNR is used by cars each day equating to 75% of its full capacity, for 250 days a year (every weekday less a few for public holidays).  Could be more, could be less - not a massive issue for present purposes.

Parking capacity:
- Ormeau - 270
- Coomera - 561
- Helensvale (incl LR) - 1,285
- Parkwood LR - 1,000
- Nerang - 712
- Robina - 948
- Varsity Lakes - 305
- Total - 5,081

There is also room to expand each of these (other than Robina) without doing much in the way of upsetting existing surrounding land use.  (Numbers at Coomera and Helensvale obviously exclude the existing and future nearby shopping parking which is restricted anyway, and Robina is anecdotally occupied by Robina Hospital staff and visitors which paid parking would help eliminate.)

5,081 x 75% x 250 x $3 = $2,858,062.50.

That is around 1/30th of the annual whole of Gold Coast public bus delivery cost of about $85m.
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ozbob

^ thanks.  Not only does the revenue provide the ability step up the bus network, frequency, span and coverage, it also allows a balance to be struck between parking availability and need.  People who are shift workers and must drive to the station can, with some surety of a space. Presently most parking is taken up very early.

The mention of using the go card to monitor park n' ride is the first time I can recall where I have heard TransLink mention that possibility.  I have little doubt that there is an increasing realisation in the towers of power that the present parking paradigm is broken and needs fixing. Personally I have no doubt that includes paid park n' ride.
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ozbob

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James

The answer is simple: f e e d e r   b u s e s

No wonder people take the car when the local bus route either runs on half-hourly or hourly frequency (even in peak), or if there is no feeder bus, there is a city-bound bus on similarly appalling frequency which sits in traffic all the way to the CBD. The simple answer to this is something that has been said over and over - bus network reform! Long overdue.
Is it really that hard to run frequent, reliable public transport?

ozbob

#1371
Sent to all outlets:

4th August 2018

Some musings on the present park n' ride mess in SEQ

Greetings,

Been a lot of media attention of late of the lack of parking spaces at railway stations. Most of the park and ride parking spaces are at railway stations although there are some bus and ferry terminals that have car parks managed by Brisbane City Council.  The car parks at railway stations are managed by Queensland Rail.  To find out the number of car parks provided at stations you can check at the ' Find your station ' page at Queensland Rail ( https://www.queenslandrail.com.au/forcustomers/stationsmaps/stationfinder).  This only returns official parking bays.  For example if you check Gailes, it says there are 0 bays.  But in fact, particularly weekdays, there will be up to several hundreds of commuters cars parked along the verge parallel to the railway line. Another web site ' Brisbane Park 'n' Rides and Commuter Car Spaces ( https://www.visitbrisbane.com.au/parking/brisbane-park-and-rides ) says Gailes has 77  spaces.  Even at a simple level of documenting accurately the number of parking spaces there are inconsistencies.  Little wonder people are confused.

The park n' ride paradigm for Brisbane and SEQ is broken.  This is reflected in the constant frustration and anger put forward by commuters who cannot get a park.  Those who do, must leave earlier and earlier to secure a park.  If you are a late start worker you have no chance of a parking place.   Politicians like to make announcements to the effect that we will be expanding the parking at station X.  They rarely, if ever, actually stop and think that if we keep on expanding the parking spaces the suburbs will be turned into giant car parks!  We are fast approaching a limit of what is a reasonable amount of parking.  Park n' ride is very expensive to establish.  On average each new parking space costs $50,000.  So to half fill at train with 500 drivers it costs $25 Million.  Clearly this is far too expensive and not sustainable.

In an article recently published by ABC News ' Commuters frustrated by lack of park-and-ride spaces, fuelling safety fears '  Mr Matt Longland DDG TransLink was reported as commenting:

" ... The head of Translink, Matt Longland, said it was working to create more parking.

"We have 30,000 parks across the network at the moment, mostly on the train network," he said.

"In the last couple of years we've added 4,000 places and now we're planning 3,000 more.

"We do a formal survey every 12 months of park and rides to look at overflow onto local streets and it helps us find the problem areas and what places to put investment in."

He said it was about balancing the amount of car parks to the nearby areas.

"It's important to not have acres of car parks around stations, especially for commuters that park there for eight to 10 hours a day as it can kill off the area around the station," Mr Longland said.

"We really want to encourage the development of the centre and consolidate car parking and allow things like retail and employment around stations."


And further on

" ... "We know we need to provide more work where it's needed most and to be able to let customers know where car parks are full," he said.

"We have conditions of use at the entrance of the car park — saying it is for commuters."

He said in future Translink would require commuters to scan their Go Cards when entering the park and ride.

"This will help us understand what people are using the network when and allow us to track when car parks are full," he said.

"The more car parks we put in, the more we would fill up; part of the solution is how we can encourage people to use the integration system, like feeder services."


Bingo Mr Longland!  " part of the solution is how we can encourage people to use the integration system, like feeder services."

This is a great weakness in our public transport network in SEQ.  The feeder bus network is abysmal.  Poor frequency, poor span of operation and a lack of coverage forces people to drive.  From now we need to focus on improving our feeder bus networks, and providing better support for active transport (bicycle and walking).  Expanding park n' ride just exacerbates the problems.  It attracts more vehicles, with more parking overflow issues blocking streets, driveways, and contributes to local road congestion and the quality life of the local community suffers.

A jurisdiction that does park n' ride well is Perth WA ( https://www.transperth.wa.gov.au/parking ).  They charge a small fee for their park n' ride $2, but importantly they have excellent feeder bus services.  People have a real alternative.  The parking charge helps keep the parking rationed to a degree and the overall outcome is much better for passenger and commuter.

Due to the poor nature of feeder bus services in SEQ generally, it would not be appropriate at present to charge a fee for park n' ride, but as better feeder services become established, and as indicated above TransLink are keen to use to the go card for parking management, it would be an easy thing to do.  Such revenue could then be feed back into improving feeder bus services.

It is time to change the mindless paradigm of just expanding parking spaces.  We need to be a lot smarter.

Best wishes,
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track https://backontrack.org
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ozbob

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techblitz

the main issue with park and rides is when you have a stream of 10 or so cars waiting to exit the station at a set of lights or LX....the feeder bus gets caught up in this....sometimes having to wait an extra rotation of the lights....
eg: ferny grove feeders are regularly delayed because of the sheer amount of cars exiting at the same time....

#Metro


Charge for parking. People hate it, that's why it works so well.

Feeder buses.

Allow people to live at the train station in TODs so that you don't need to bring the car.

https://backontrack.org/docs/tod/RBoT_TODSep16.pdf
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ozbob

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ozbob

^ strong response to this post on Facebook.  Some good observations and comments too!

> https://www.facebook.com/RAILBackOnTrack/posts/2169261399754702
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ozbob

7 News is going to interview me later this morning on park n' ride issues!   :-c
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#Metro

$50 million to fill one train. Value for money??
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ozbob

Quote from: ozbob on August 06, 2018, 09:11:42 AM
7 News is going to interview me later this morning on park n' ride issues!   :-c

Interview complete.  Hopeful that some good cuts will get to air. 

Doesn't really matter too much what aspect you look at with respect to PT in SEQ, it is all pretty much rooted!

Transperth does feeder buses well. Have a look at map 7 for example ( https://www.transperth.wa.gov.au/Journey-Planner/Network-Maps ) and how bus supports rail at Rockingham. I had a look at Rockingham last time I was in Perth. Bus/rail interchange done well. It helps that the train frequency is 15 minutes out of peak, better at peak.

Photograph at Rockingham bus interchange (next to rail). Rockingham has 1950 parking spaces for interest.

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SurfRail

Bull Creek is a good example.  I have vague recollections that the amount of bus-train transferring there exceeds the amount of bus-bus transferring at the Cultural Centre.  Not only have you got good feeder buses, but you have frequent cross-town routes like the 501 between there and Fremantle ie frequent routes that don't go anywhere near the city.
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ozbob

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ozbob

Letter to the Editor Queensland Times 7th August 2018 page 17

Park 'n' ride paradigm is broken



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ozbob

Sent to all outlets:

7th August 2018

Park ' n' ride failure is just a sign of the public transport rot!

Good Morning,

Strong response to our Facebook post on park 'n' ride > https://www.facebook.com/RAILBackOnTrack/posts/2169261399754702

It seems these days that most aspects of public transport in SEQ are dysfunctional.  Park 'n' ride, paradigm is broken.  We have a disconnected low frequency public transport network prone to increasing mechanical and rollingstock issues for bus and rail ( https://twitter.com/TransLinkSEQ ).  Non functional Passenger Information Displays (PIDs) all over the place.  Non DDA DSAPT compliant new trains!  Aged EMUs battling on way past their effective service life.  And a most disappointing low frequency, confusing rail timetable. Grade separations (level crossing removals) in stagnation.  DDA station compliance years and years behind, with the Minister for Transport admitting in Estimates that they will not make the compliance deadlines!

Doing the same blunder is only making matters a lot worse.  Time for a proper public transport authority to arrest the rot and start the process of sorting out our public transport!

Letter to the Editor Queensland Times 7th August 2018 page 17
( https://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=532.msg212180#msg212180 )

Park 'n' ride paradigm is broken





Crikey, what a mess!

Best wishes,
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track https://backontrack.org

[ Attached: https://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=532.msg212105#msg212105 ]
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ozbob

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#Metro

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ozbob

Quote from: #Metro on September 11, 2018, 07:03:11 AM
Charge $2. Like Perth.

Perth has decent feeder bus networks.  Until that is achieved in SEQ paid park 'n' ride is not going to happen.
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#Metro

The other option is to remove some car parks and put homes there.

Instead of taking your car, take your house.
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ozbob

#1390
Couriermail Quest --> Park 'n' ride upgrade to add 650 new car spaces

QuoteTRANSPORT and Main Roads Minister Mark Bailey has announced the final go-ahead for the multistorey Springfield Central Park 'n' Ride, with the Government finally securing the land for the upgrade.

State ALP MP for Jordan Charis Mullen and Mr Bailey today announced the $44 million carpark would create an additional 650 spaces, bringing the total available to 1100.

The parking upgrade was an election promise made by Ms Mullen during the 2017 State election campaign.

"We hope to have the detailed design completed by the end of this year, which will also include local and state road arrangements, pedestrian movements and vehicle access," Ms Mullen said.

She said the access would take into account the proximity of the station to the roundabout at Springfield Greenbank Arterial and the Centenary Highway off-ramp.

In relation to a recent spate of warning tickets issued by the Ipswich City Council to commuters parking near the station, Ms Mullen said she had spoken with new Ipswich City Council Administrator Greg Chemello and would be meeting with him this week to discuss options to assist commuters during the construction of the new carpark.

"Time frames for the construction will be known once the detailed design has been finalised, but I have been assured by the Minister that we will work to construct the new facility as quickly as possible," Ms Mullen said.

https://twitter.com/MarkBaileyMP/status/1039695627460857857

https://twitter.com/Robert_Dow/status/1039699176928378880
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ozbob

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ozbob

Queensland Times --> WARNING: Train commuters fined for parking illegally

QuoteRIPLEY commuter Lisa Vaaulu says she shouldn't be punished for a lack of car parks at Springfield Central Train Station.

She has written to the Ipswich City Council asking for them to sort out an alternative parking solution and started a petition.

This comes as Orion Springfield Central management say commuters are not welcome in their car park after the council confirmed they had issued warnings to more than 100 motorists parked on grassed areas around the station.

"Sort alternative car parking out for an issue that is beyond our control instead of fining us for an issue that is not ours," Ms Vaaulu wrote to the council.

"Oh and maybe to make life easier for your ratepayers you could arrange for QLD Rail to put express trains on during peak hour!"

Parking at the station has long been an issue, at first only 100 parks were included at the station, that was later increased to 500 and now a Park n Ride facility with 650 new parks set to be built by 2022 can't come soon enough.

Ipswich City Council say the parking crackdown is in the interest of child safety and motorists have two weeks to find alternative parking before fines will be issued.

Ms Vaaulu said her Change.org petition for a temporary parking solution was now open. Sign the petition here.

"The growth in South Ripley and Springfield Lakes is huge. Something needs to be done.

"It's only going to get worse."

Ms Vaaulu said she felt for the mums and dads who dropped their kids at school or day care then tried to get a park around 8am.

"A lot of the travellers who need a car park are working mums and dads who do not need the added stress of worrying about trying to get a car park so they can commute to work or to worry if they will have a $90 ticket to deal with.

"The least the council can do is organise a temporary measure. People literally have no other choice. There's no side streets, it's surrounded by freeways and bike lanes. I care about the mums and dads stressing about getting a car park."

Ms Vaaulu and her partner recently purchased a house in South Ripley, where there is no bus service, they both work in the city and their son, 2 attends day care.

"We used to drive into the city everyday, leaving home at 6.30am in the morning with our son, sit in horrific traffic for at least an hour sometimes longer each way and drop our son at a city daycare, we then would get home at 6.40pm every night. 

"We then decided we would change our sons daycare to a Springfield daycare and catch the train in to the city to support our community with jobs and take one less car off the roads, but if the constant battle for a carpark at 7.15am each morning continues at Springfield Central we will no longer be able to support our community and we will have to add our car back to the already horrific traffic into the city."

Ms Vaaulu has asked the council if they think anyone wants to park on the nature strip and "potentially damage our cars"?

"Do you think we have other options? Do you think we should arrive at the station at 6am to secure a park? Do you have another location of where we should all park?

"Should we catch the bus? South Ripley doesn't have a bus service yet and there are 2000 plus people in the area."

More outrage over parking...

Springfield commuter Susana Qleibo said she had been parking at the station for more than three years and parking hadn't been a problem until about 15 months ago.

"I along with many other commuters had to resort to parking down from the station on the grass to make our way to work by train," Mrs Qleibo said.

"Yesterday I get to my car to drive home and there is an Ipswich City Council parking warning. Next time its a ticket.

"I dare say you've had quite a few cranky commuters. Its unfair. We have no other choice. No parking, no bus stop at Springfield Station as an alternative and then we have to worry about a fine!!! That is crazy.

"We need to put the pressure on State Government for a solution and more parking."

A man who wished to remain anonymous said the limited parking spaces were filled by 7.10am each morning when the rest of the commuters were "left to fight over any available section of dirt surrounding the station".

"Travellers used to park alongside the fences contained within the carpark, however, were forced to relocate due to $45 fines being issued to those illegally parked.

"Now commuters are forced to park on grass areas, muddy dirt tracks, footpaths and side of the road if they wish to travel by train."

The man said $45-$50 fines for more than 100 vehicles was revenue raising.

"Translink has just introduced brand new trains which would have cost millions and will become empty due to the fact no one can park at the station to travel by train. Money better spent upgrading urgent parking issues at most stations, like this one.

"I along with many feel an injustice is being imposed on them issuing fines when the underlying problem is due to the lack of planning and management of the parking facilities.

"Sure I want to be safe, sure I want my vehicle to be safe, I don't want obstructions to other drivers, but as this is becoming out of control more exposure and investigation needs to be voiced."
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ozbob

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ozbob

I noted two articles in Queensland Times 11 Sep 2018

The first ' Parking headache worse '.  The second ' Maha: We're not done '.

The first article highlighted the lack of parking that is available at Springfield Central railway station and the fact that ICC is starting to clamp down on the consequential  overflow parking.  The second article detailed broadly the plans for further development in the Springfield area with population to grow to 138,000 from the present 41,000.

Unfortunately public transport services have lagged in the Springfield area, particularly a convenient local feeder bus network to allow people to conveniently travel to and from their residences and the railway station. TransLink has not upgraded the bus network that was put in place in 2013 when the railway opened to Springfield. The parking clamp down will force more residents onto the already congested roads.  An increase of 650 park 'n' ride spaces is planned but is 4 years away.  But that will nowhere be enough with the expected population growth.  We need to provide better support for active transport and local buses.

Springfield needs a system of local bus services that provide connections to and from transport hubs and to locations such as health facilities, education services, shopping centres and the like.  Springfield could be a leader by establishing a fleet of medium size electric buses that could easily navigate through local streets.  Time to change the car dependency paradigm.
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techblitz

QuoteThis is the end result of neglecting proper bus feeder networks and support for active transport @TransLinkSEQ et al! Terrible, they will now add to the congestion.

just did a quick 522 check at 3.14pm


Route 522 Inbound

Springfield, Camira, Gailes, Goodna
522 Bus Inbound, 1 min, scheduled for 3:04 PM. To Springfield, Camira, Gailes, Goodna.   3:04 pm    1 min

= 12 mins late when it arrives at the stop

ozbob

River 94.9 FM --> Ripley woman begins petition over Springfield station parking

QuoteA Ripley woman has started a Change Org petition after commuters were fined for parking their cars illegally at Springfield Central Train Station.

Lisa Vaaulu says the Ipswich City Council are fining people who have no other alternative but to park on the grassed area near the station.
She says the council needs to make more parks available:

"I think that added stress on having to find a car park inside an already busting at the seams car park is ridiculous.
We've been emailing the Ipswich City Council and they've been passing the buck to Queensland Rail and the State government that looks after the parking, but in the meantime, we need a temporary measure."

In a statement, the Ipswich City Council says they have now agreed to extend the warning period for park and ride travellers after concerns were raised about the safety of Springfield Anglican College students walking through the area.

The petition can be found at the following link: https://www.change.org/p/qld-rail-temporary-parking-solution-springfield-central-station?recruiter=899539068
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ozbob

Sent to all outlets:

14th September 2018

The High Cost of FREE Parking: $68,000 for a car parking space

Greetings,

RAIL Back on Track welcomes the announcement by Transport Minister Mark Bailey to add another 650 car parking spaces at a cost of $44.5 million to Springfield Central Station.

Unfortunately, this works out to be an extraordinary $68,000 per parking space, more than the cost of most family cars. Park and ride costs are astronomical and contribute little to patronage. The simple fact is that although welcome, 650 spaces doesn't even fill one Queensland Rail train. Park and ride is quickly saturated, where as feeder buses and active transport by comparison to park and ride, are essentially without limit.

$68,000 per parking space is an enormous subsidy to car users. We have never heard of that kind of money spent on cyclist parking, for example.

It's about time that feeder and route buses in the area were improved. Perth (Transperth) has a great feeder bus network and that has allowed transport authorities to charge $2 for park and ride car parking at all Transperth train stations, which helps to balance park and ride usage. Paid parking for park and ride is only appropriate when there is a proper alternative in terms of proper feeder bus networks - lacking generally in SEQ.

Springfield Land Corporation has plans for high density dwellings immediately next to Springfield Central Station. If people can live next to the station, then they don't need to bring their car!

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track https://backontrack.org

References:

Park 'n' ride upgrade to add 650 new car spaces https://www.couriermail.com.au/questnews/southwest/land-decision-made-on-springfield-central-multistorey-park-n-ride/news-story/0c12b6bdb25e2c923334920ac78dfc25

Parking https://www.transperth.wa.gov.au/parking
Half baked projects, have long term consequences ...
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ozbob

Half baked projects, have long term consequences ...
Ozbob's Gallery Forum   Facebook  X   Mastodon  BlueSky

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