Car parking - solutions?

[ozbob]

The article at the Courier Mail has been updated:

From the Courier Mail click here!

Park 'n' Ride fee scare

Park 'n' Ride fee scare
Article from: MX

Alex Dickinson of MX

November 04, 2009 02:20pm

COMMUTERS may have escaped a plan to charge for parking at public transport hubs in the latest in a raft of extra costs facing commuters.

A leaked email between two senior Brisbane City Council bureaucrats seen by mX refers to TransLink plans to bring in paid parking to deal with overcrowded Park 'n' Ride facilities.

"(We) have had a small number of discussions with TransLink about the work they are undertaking on their network of existing and proposed P & R facilities," the email says.

"I understand they are looking at the supply and demand trends and looking at ways to manage demand (read 'introduce tariffs') at these locations."

But a spokesman for TransLink late today ruled out charging commuters for park and rides.

?TransLink has no plans to charge people to access park n ride facilities across the network,?? he said.

Earlier, a TransLink spokesman quizzed by mX did not rule out the measure but said there were no "active plans" for it.

Rail Back on Track spokesman Robert Dow said he had suspected charges at Park 'n' Ride facilities were on the cards.

"We've suspected it might be an option and we think if it is, that it should be integrated with the Go Card," Dow said.

"It's inevitable that charges would come in as parking spaces dry up and local residents and businesses are affected."

Dow said the measure should be coupled with suburban bus loops, similar to the inner city bus loop.

"The problem is there is currently no alternative for Park 'n' Ride users who are commuting from the outer suburbs," Dow said.

It comes after Transport Minister Rachel Nolan announced last month that commuters would be hit with higher ticket prices in the lead-up to a paper ticket phase-out later next year.

From January, paper ticket prices will increase by 40 per cent, meaning a two-zone trip will rise from $2.90 to $3.90.

At the same time, Go Card fares will be increased 20 per cent, with a two-zone trip costing 38c more, from $2.32 to $2.70.

Brisbane drivers commuting to the inner city will also be slugged with extra costs after the Brisbane City Council confirmed it would triple the number of metered car parks in the Central Traffic area from 2900 to 9100 by October 2010.

The move is to prevent drivers parking for free all day in unmetered inner city suburbs, such as Newstead and Bowen Hills, and impeding on the parking of local residents and businesses.
mX is free at outlets in the CBD, Fortitude Valley and South Brisbane.

[ozbob]

From the Brisbanetimes click here!

Paddington says no to parking meters

Paddington says no to parking meters
TONY MOORE
November 5, 2009 - 5:14AM

Be the first to comment

Paddington traders say council plans to introduce parking meters in the area is a revenue-grabbing exercise that will only hurt business.

None of the shop or restaurant owners brisbanetimes.com.au spoke to yesterday knew anything of the plans until media reports that morning.

Brisbane City Council is to introduce 2400, of a total of 9100, new parking meters in Toowong, Albion, Paddington and some "regional centres" by October 2010.

Other meters are already being introduced in Bowen Hills and Teneriffe.

The Labor opposition suggests "regional centres" could include Carindale and Indooroopilly, although the plan has not been fully considered by Council.

Retail Traders Association executive director Scott Driscoll suggested more meters would "heavily impact" convenience shoppers, forcing them into major shopping centres.

"This move stands to go completely against convenience shopping, threatening local retailers and corralling consumers into already-crowded shopping centre car parks on a special trip just for their bread and milk," he said.

Paddington Hardware manager Gary Dwyer shares an off-street parking area with a nearby bottleshop.

On Saturday's the two businesses share the cost of employing someone to "police" their car park to keep it clear for customers.

"I don't think (meters) will work," Mr Dwyer said.

" I think it is just revenue raising for the council," he said.

"It could keep people from the local businesses, like the restaurants, because they are governed by the time that they can stay there," he said.

Rebecca Hawkins, owner-manager of Baci Lounge said parking was already a "barrier" in Paddington's main street, but was unsure of the impact on her lounge bar and bookshop.

"It is either going to make more parking available, or people just won't come," she said.

"I don't know what will happen."

Montrachet restaurant owner Thierry Galichet said he would prefer Brisbane City Council controlled the speed of drivers, not the parking.

"That would be the number one thing for me, to make it 40kmh, rather than 60kmh or 70kmh," Mr Galichet said.

"That would be my preference. I think somebody is going to get killed there very soon."

Mr Galichet, who opens Montrachet four nights a week for dinner, said he could only see value for meters if it discouraged people from parking in the suburb and walking to catch a bus.

"But that is not happening, and they try to do that in our car park anyway," he said.

He said while most of his customers came by taxi, or at night, parking meters would hurt other businesses.

"If they wanted to be genuine about the parking they can just police that two-hour zone and no-one will park there for more than two hours," he said.

Shopper Siobhan Ashton, from Clayfield, said she came to Paddington to meet friends, and parking meters could persuade her to come less frequently.

"I think meters are good for areas where people are working," she said.

"This is more suburban residential. I don't think it will be taken too well here.

"I think, fair enough they have a sign that says two hours, and if you stay longer you get a ticket.

"But I think if you're a resident and you have your parking permit, I think that works well.

"I don't like the idea of more meters in areas that are more for living, rather than working."

While the decision to introduce the new parking meters was taken by 26 councillors - both LNP and Labor on March 31 this year - the suggested locations for new meters in 2010 was leaked by the ALP this week.

[ozbob]

Park and ride facilities will need to be fitted with boom gates and ticketing accessed by the use of a go card IMHO.  I think the progressive roll out of parking meters will cause people to park in the park and ride areas who may not be commuters.  If a commuter uses public transport that day when they exit from the car park they don't pay.  If they have used the park and ride for local convenience only they are hit with a charge.  Entry to the car park would be contingent on having credit on your go card.

[Derwan]

Good idea Bob!   

[p858snake]

That would be unfair to the people that have to travel to the station and not walk (eg: a lot of the samford residents) And what about the ones that don't have enough credits on their go cards, means they will have to park, walk and top up then walk back and repark.

[Emmie]

Bob - have I got this right?  People DON'T pay, so long as they have used their GO card on PT that day - so it's a bit like showing a shopping docket at a shopping centre car park in return for a free park.

Sounds like a great idea.

[#Metro]

Park and ride facilities will need to be fitted with boom gates and ticketing accessed by the use of a go card IMHO.  I think the progressive roll out of parking meters will cause people to park in the park and ride areas who may not be commuters.  If a commuter uses public transport that day when they exit from the car park they don't pay.  If they have used the park and ride for local convenience only they are hit with a charge.  Entry to the car park would be contingent on having credit on your go card.

I don't think places like Samford should have park controls. There are so few people around.

There are a number of ways to do this:

- During the peak: No charge for carpark for a commuter (Go card simply opens the boom gates, no charge).
- During the off-peak: Boom gates open, anyone can park for free.

Doing this might be a pain and cost something, so a flat fee "carpark membership" if you like, could be paid to "activate" this functionality on the GoCard. Otherwise it should be free. I have deliberately propose to allow anyone to park during off peak. There is nothing to be gained from withholding empty park spaces from someone who might want one in the off peak, but might not be a commuter.

There should also be pick-up and ride bays for taxis and cars.

[mufreight]

Park and ride facilities will need to be fitted with boom gates and ticketing accessed by the use of a go card IMHO.  I think the progressive roll out of parking meters will cause people to park in the park and ride areas who may not be commuters.  If a commuter uses public transport that day when they exit from the car park they don't pay.  If they have used the park and ride for local convenience only they are hit with a charge.  Entry to the car park would be contingent on having credit on your go card.

Problem is how long before Translink and the current duplicit government would then make commuters pay for parking deducting the parking fee from the commuters GO card, a further disincentive for commuters to use the facility or indeed public transport.

[p858snake]

I don't think places like Samford should have park controls. There are so few people around.

Samford... few....

Also us samford people don't have public transport apart from a bus in the morning and another in the evening, we all have to travel to ferny grove by our own transport if the current bus situation doesn't suit us.

[ozbob]

Unless there is some system of access control public transport commuters will be forced out of the park and ride by others.

Nothing very different from what you suggest happens at a number of shopping centre car parks Emmie in the basic approach.  Customers of the shopping centre no problem, others using it for other reasons are penalised. 

Clearly, the present farce with respect to parking is just getting worse and worse.  With an epidemic of parking meters soon to be in place parking will be at a premium.  Public transport commuters using the park and ride should have free parking, clearly.  The go card provides a means of doing that.  Everyone will have go cards.

[somebody]

Clearly, the present farce with respect to parking is just getting worse and worse.  With an epidemic of parking meters soon to be in place parking will be at a premium.  Public transport commuters using the park and ride should have free parking, clearly.  The go card provides a means of doing that.  Everyone will have go cards.

Are there any park and rides in the parts of Brisbane where the parking meters are going to be rolled out to?

[ozbob]

Yes, read the articles.  Nothing wrong in restricting the park and ride to genuine public transport commuters.

No doubt it will come.  Sure beats open slather paid parking as the situation in some other countries.   Parking is a critical issue.  The effect on many residents and businesses is terrible.  As more and more parking restrictions are put in local streets this forces more and more non commuters to use the park and rides.  Oxley is a good example of reduced street parking forcing folks to use the park and ride where they can.

Garden City is the another example.  They had major problems with public transport commuters taking up shoppers car parking.  The reverse situation, sorted by restricting parking to genuine shoppers.  For too long now the authorities have done not much at all to address the problem.

Feeder station buses need to trialled in some suburbs.  They will not be suitable for all locations but clearly will work well in medium density suburbs such as Oxley.  This will relieve some of the parking pressures.

Some of the effects of parking meters in the inner suburbs where many folk drive and park presently, then get PT into town eg. Albion, Kelvin Grove etc. will be to force them back out.  So there will be even more pressure on the existing park and ride facilities, hence I believe the need to ensure that they are kept for public transport commuters.

[ozbob]

Folks driving from Samford to FG, need some assurance that they will be able to park!   It is a fairly logical process ...

[ozbob]

From the Brisbane mX 5th November  2009 page 2

Park 'n' deride

[Jon Bryant]

Park and Rides  and all railway station car parks need to be replaced by TODs and local buses.  Park and Roides only encourage people to live further away from their work locoation.  These trips are unsustainable.

We also need to reduce car parking availability in our CBD and major centres. If people know parking is available irrespective of cost they will drive.

[ozbob]

From the Brisbanetimes click here!

Parallel parking: Chermside still wants to charge as Indro says no

Parallel parking: Chermside still wants to charge as Indro says no
TONY MOORE
November 6, 2009 - 12:08PM


Westfield still wants to introduce paid parking at Chermside Shopping Centre for anyone using the 6000 car spaces for more than three hours.

Chermside would be the first shopping centre in Queensland to introduce paid parking.

However, the centre owner Westfield is still waiting for development approval from Brisbane City Council, 12 months after announcing it had lodged an application with City Hall.

Westfield initially wanted to have the paid parking scheme in place before mid-2009.

Many bus commuters park at the centre and ride buses into town.

Westfield corporate affairs manger Julie Clarke yesterday said the complex's owner was still awaiting a green light from Council.

"Nothing has changed since then," Ms Clarke said.

"We have a development application in and we are awaiting approval."

The development application would allow the shopping centre to install boom gates, an electronic parking guidance system and to change the layout of the parking around the shopping centre.

"It would allow us to install some infrastructure - such as the boom gates - and that allows paid parking to become active," Ms Clarke said.

Westfield and Brisbane City Council lawyers are arguing why Westfield has lodged a "material change of use" application for their plan when the centre will still operate as a "shopping centre".

This week the suggested locations being considered by Council for the second and third stages of its roll-out of an extra 6200 parking meters by October 2010, were leaked by the Council Opposition.

Brisbane's suburban centres, around the busy Chermside, Garden City, Indooroopilly and Carindale shopping complexes, are possible locations for the additional parking meters.

Westfield also owns Carindale, Garden City, Strathpine, Helensvale and North Lakes shopping centres but only wants to introduce paid parking at Chermside.

Westfield has paid parking schemes in place in Sydney at its shopping centres at Chatswood and Bondi Junction, which are viewed as public transport hubs. It charges about $6 an hour after the first two hours.

"The priority is to provide parking for genuine shoppers," Ms Clarke said.

Indooroopilly Shopping Centre centre manager Ian McCosker said there was no immediate intention to introduce paid parking at the inner-west complex, which is very close to Indooroopilly train station.

"As far as Indooroopilly is concerned there are no plans at this time to introduce paid parking or boom gates," Mr McCosker said.

"It is not been considered," he said, "at this time."

Commuters park in Indooroopilly's residential streets - and the centre - and catch trains towards the city.

Indooroopilly Shopping Centre is owned by Lend Lease.

[p858snake]

Westfield still wants to introduce paid parking at Chermside Shopping Centre for anyone using the 6000 car spaces for more than three hours.
Chermside would be the first shopping centre in Queensland to introduce paid parking...

Isn't the one in the city, Queen Street Mall (I think it's called) already a paid parking one?

[ozbob]

Late start today, checked out the parking situation around Oxley at 9.30am.  Massive overload already in the parks and streets, and still not all folks back to work/school/university.   Clearly a need to find some solutions, the present policies are just a monumental failure.  Surprised?

[Jon Bryant]

Clearly car parks cannot ever cater for the passenger demand.  Have posted many times that a new approach is required involving TODs and feeder/local buses

[somebody]

Clearly car parks cannot ever cater for the passenger demand.  Have posted many times that a new approach is required involving TODs and feeder/local buses

They go pretty close to catering for the demand on the Gold Coast line.

[verbatim9]

Westfield still wants to introduce paid parking at Chermside Shopping Centre for anyone using the 6000 car spaces for more than three hours.
Chermside would be the first shopping centre in Queensland to introduce paid parking...

Isn't the one in the city, Queen Street Mall (I think it's called) already a paid parking one?

I agree with Westfields in this respect even though its a bit of a catch 22 situation. Its better to have the parking freed up during the busy periods. If people want to commute to work they should park on public land, side streets etc.....  or catch the bus from outside their house or down the street.

[Jon Bryant]

Clearly car parks cannot ever cater for the passenger demand.  Have posted many times that a new approach is required involving TODs and feeder/local buses

They go pretty close to catering for the demand on the Gold Coast line.

That would be mostly because there is a 4 lane freeway alng most of the route so if h]you have to jump in a car then you might as well drive the rest of the way.  In  most locations the car park is full by 7:30.

[#Metro]

If what it takes to make people use PT is a car park at the station, then give it to them.
Feeder buses might work, but if the station is far out of the city, it is likely that the density is lower and less favorable to run a shuttle service for peak use only.

[ozbob]

We simply cannot keep knocking houses down and building acres of car parks.  Certainly in the outer regions car parks are necessary, but in the higher density regions more use of local shuttles is needed.  A combination of park and ride and shuttles - also more support of active transport to and from major stations.

Oxley is a fascinating example. They knocked down houses to expand the car park at the railway station.  Rather than easing parking problems it is actually made everything worse. Streets are now more overloaded than ever.  The powers to be keep citing Richlands, with its 650 car parking spaces will ease the pressure around Oxley.  I don't think it will at all, just attract more cars to the honey pot ...

Park and ride car parks should be kept for public transport commuters.  This can be controlled easily by go card.  When exiting the car park touch the go card, no travel for that day parking fee.  Provide the local station buses as peak options.

Car parking around stations is a major issue.

[beauyboy]

I do like the Go card swipe idea very much.
I think a similar thing could be done for the Bike Lockers. I am not a fan of the Cages.
If people swiped in and out there could be a record of who is using there locker and who is not, then they would be used.

Donald

[Jon Bryant]

Further the larege expanse of car parking around our stations makes them unsafe at night as there is not a lot of activity and only a CCTV to protect you.  This further discourages PT use.   Translink need to call for Expressions of Interest to develop all existing car parks for a TOD and intoduce local buses. 

[#Metro]

Well by all means trial it. I just think that people would rather drive. Carparks can be placed in dugouts etc.
Also improve bicycle access with Go-card swipe access bicycle cages and not the box lockers that requires a storm of paperwork to do...

Closer to the city TL does not build car parks because excess commuters spill into the streets and that triggers a NIMBY response. Not suggesting that their claims are unfounded, but that is what happens.

People should get on their bicycles. QR should increase the frequency and designate a carriage for bikes. And not just fold up ones either. QR is supposed to give us what we want, not tell us what they won't do...


Metro does it: http://www.metrotrains.com.au/About-us/Frequently-Asked-Questions.html

Can I take my push bike on a train?

Of course.  We request customers with push bikes to use the very last carriage of the train and, if possible, to avoid the peak times when the largest number of customers are using the train service.  Motor bikes and motor scooters are not permitted on trains.

[Nightwriter]

Its interesting to read this - I've been noticing for the past few months that some people at my local train station are using the car park as a car pool meeting place.  They park the car, then hop into the car pool car and take off.

I just think that people would rather drive.

I know that this is against the reason why we are all here, but I must admit, I would rather drive to the station than take a bus.  I already spend two hours travelling to and from work, I don't want to tack on more time by taking a bus from station to home!  I know its selfish of me, but its the truth....and its probably what you'll find in a lot of cases.

[ozbob]

No one is suggesting seriously that we don't need car parks, a combination and variation depending on density location.

As you get closer to the inner city the problems are much more acute.  There is no space for parking, overflows into streets is just causing disruption for everyone.  Regular station buses would work fine.  There are some early variations of this already eg 467, City Loopers.

Your comment about the car poolers is interesting. 

[Jon Bryant]

No one is suggesting seriously that we don't need car parks, a combination and variation depending on density location.

As you get closer to the inner city the problems are much more acute.  There is no space for parking, overflows into streets is just causing disruption for everyone.  Regular station buses would work fine.  There are some early variations of this already eg 467, City Loopers.

Your comment about the car poolers is interesting.  

But I am suggesting we develop an urban landscape that is focused around our/a transit system so that walking is our first choice of getting around locally and to the train or bus or tram

[longboi]

No one is suggesting seriously that we don't need car parks, a combination and variation depending on density location.

As you get closer to the inner city the problems are much more acute.  There is no space for parking, overflows into streets is just causing disruption for everyone.  Regular station buses would work fine.  There are some early variations of this already eg 467, City Loopers.

Your comment about the car poolers is interesting.  

But I am suggesting we develop an urban landscape that is focused around our/a transit system so that walking is our first choice of getting around locally and to the train or bus or tram

Exactly. The option should be there so people who are happy to travel with PT can live close to PT hubs and nodes.

At present, the fully-detached home and sprawl mentality forces most of us to live a lot further from PT than we would like to.

[ozbob]

Enoggera Reservoir park 'n' ride

http://www.translink.com.au/enoggeraparknride.php

Project background

The Queensland Government, through TransLink will make public transport easier and safer to catch with planning underway for a new park 'n' ride facility near the Enoggera Reservoir.

The new park 'n' ride will allow people to park their cars and transfer to a bus to complete their journey.

The park 'n' ride facility, to be located on Waterworks Road, The Gap, will improve and formalise access to public transport for residents.

http://www.translink.com.au/resources/projects/enoggeraparknride-small.jpg

[somebody]

It never ceases to amaze me how expensive these things are to provide.  $38 000 per space isn't cheap.

I wonder if just improving the bus services would be better?

[#Metro]

I agree with the idea of the carpark.
I don't agree with the cost of the thing though.

It seems that everyone knows that the government has lots of money, and so they jack up the price to ridiculous levels.
$3.8 million!

You could run a bus for the next 76 years assuming the driver + costs amounted to $50 000/year.

Alternatively, if the land cost some ridiculous amount and needs to be resumed, then this would begin to make more sense.

[johnnigh]

The land looks like publicly owned, but whether state or local I've no idea. Already there seems to be some messing about on the proposed parking station. The current bus turning circle is barely adequate but the proposed one would accommodate lots of buses. Where will the parkers come from? Mts Nebo and Glorious only? All of The Gap? More than that?

The cost seems a lot but how long will it be used? Given location, I doubt further density will be put in that corner of Brissie, nor will too many locals swap their car for a bike, due to the hills. So it might have a long life without pressures to extend it.

It should make it easier for my cycle club to start its Mt Nebo Challenge, with a few warm-up circuits of the turning circle before setting off up the hill.  :bi and more significant, will the bus driver's dunny be extended to a public facility when the extended turning circle is completed? 

[cartel_brisbane]

I wonder if just improving the bus services would be better?

Yes, but its actually getting to/from the bus and other modes of public transport that is an important issue.

[somebody]

I wonder if just improving the bus services would be better?

Yes, but its actually getting to/from the bus and other modes of public transport that is an important issue.

Well, what if the bus did a better job of giving a walk up service with a good frequency to more pax?

EDIT: In particular, Upper Kedron, Ferny Hills, Arana Hills and Everton Hills are all poorly served.  Not to mention the 359 corridor.  I'd wonder about getting a direct service for Upper Kedron in particular.  Also no weekend or evening service is a bit of a shocker.

Not that the above would have an effect on Waterworks Rd parking, but some changes I suggested here might make some difference: http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=3659.new#new

[#Metro]

Do the locals have bicycles?

[cartel_brisbane]

Do the locals have bicycles?

They need to be stored somewhere, rather than chained up like forgotten monoliths in a haphazard fashion to railway and bus station fences.

[dwb]

$3.8m for 100 car spaces... roughly $38,000/space as identified by another writer.

Let's look at this another way...

Let's assume TL borrows money and pays the loan off over 15yrs at current home loan rates. Monthly repayments would be $33964.56 (according to ANZ home loan calculator at 6.91%).

If the monthly repayment needs to be covered by the 100 people who park, and they can park a maximum of 4wks x 5days x100 spaces, then $34k needs to be spread over 2000 'uses'. That means each 'use', which equates to a day's parking cost, would be $16.98.

Does it really make sense to spend all the money on this especially when the 385 is already on of the cities most 10 overcrowded routes?? Wouldn't it be better to increase frequency? After all, the 100 people who park (if new customers) will fill up 1.5 buses in peak time, when its already full, and yet no service changes are planned.

This is why parking should not be free, for PT uses or otherwise, all they're doing is soaking up funds that could be better spent.

Now assuming half the cost is for the turnaround and drivers' facilities and the loan is paid off over 25 years, that still equates to a monthly repayment of $13,320 (or $6.66/'use'). I think it is fair to charge at least half of this to the user. That means there should be boom gates and you get charged $3 on top of your fair to park). This means the fare would go from $3.20 to $6.20 (zone 1-3 peak is $3.20).

If the government is serious about reducing subsidy then it should do so intelligently - and that means looking at the least economically efficient parts of its business. Carparking has got to be the most inefficient.

What is the Enoggera Reservoir park 'n' ride?

Project name:   Enoggera Reservoir park 'n' ride
Location:   Waterworks Road, The Gap
Funding:   $3.8 million (funded by TransLink)
Construction timing:   Early 2011 - mid 2011
Project background

The Queensland Government, through TransLink will make public transport easier and safer to catch with planning underway for a new park 'n' ride facility near the Enoggera Reservoir.

The new park 'n' ride will allow people to park their cars and transfer to a bus to complete their journey.

The park 'n' ride facility, to be located on Waterworks Road, The Gap, will improve and formalise access to public transport for residents.


Proposed Enoggera Reservoir park 'n' ride design, click to enlarge.
Benefits of the park 'n' ride

The park 'n' ride will:

assist in encouraging more people to use public transport for most of their journey
help reduce negative environmental impacts caused from private vehicle use by encouraging the use of public transport
assist in reducing parking demand on local streets near bus stops.
Proposed key features of the park 'n' ride project

parking for approximately 100 vehicles
direct pedestrian and bicycle access
a kiss 'n' ride area for dropping off and picking up bus passengers
a secure bicycle storage facility
a comfortable and secure bus stop waiting environment with sheltered areas, seating, and lighting
landscaping using drought resistant plants.
What about the bus stop?

A new bus stop will be built at the Enoggera Reservoir park 'n' ride and will include sheltered waiting areas, comfortable seating, security cameras and lighting.

The placement and design of the bus stop will ensure a safe traffic environment, including high visibility for buses entering Waterworks Road.

Will the bus services change?

At this stage, there are no planned changes to bus services already operating in the local area.

If changes are necessary, passengers will be informed before the facility is opened.

Traffic conditions

During construction, signage and traffic controllers will direct road users around works and every effort will be made to keep disruptions to a minimum.

Pedestrian access will be maintained at all times.

We thank you for your patience and cooperation during these important construction works.

What's next

TransLink will hold community information sessions once a concept design has been finalised in mid 2010. The dates and times for these sessions will be posted on this website and advertised in the local paper.

Contact us

For further information please contact the project team:

Phone 1800 192 112* (freecall)

Email enoggera@tmr.qld.gov.au

* Higher call rates apply from mobile phones and pay phones. STD rates will apply if calling outside of Queensland.