Car parking - solutions?

[ozbob]

Couriermail --> Pacific Fair to open boom gates on paid parking for staff and shoppers on Gold Coast

[#Metro]

FREE PARKING is really a psychological thing, like $2 ATM fees. It is very unusual that such a low fee would cause such upset, but it does.

Someone shopping at a large centre might only do so once or twice a week, and then spend hundreds of dollars.

The amount someone would spend on parking would be something like 1% or 2% of the weekly shopping bill.

They would actually pay more in GST taxation than parking.

:conf

[ozbob]

Couriermail --> What residents complaint about most

... Some of Queenslanders' biggest gripes to councils have been increasing across the board, with illegal parking dominating as a key concern.

Brisbane residents swamped council with 23,735 complaints about parking in the 2014-15 financial year, which was a 14 per cent increase from the previous year.

On the Gold Coast, council copped 6200 complaints on the issue – a figure that has been steadily increasing over the past few years.

In the Sunshine Coast and Redland council areas, missed wheelie bin collections were one of the primary concerns ...

[ozbob]

Couriermail --> Brisbane parking expensive off-street, affordable on-street

[BrizCommuter]

Locked out at Enoggera! More station parking woes.
http://brizcommuter.blogspot.com.au/2016/08/locked-out-at-enoggera.html

[ozbob]

^ 

BrizCommuter:
Locked Out at Enoggera!
> https://t.co/R5Ro6PpAzF#qldpol@StirlHinchliffe @Team_Quirk @TransLinkSEQ pic.twitter.com/9eG335tuXQ

— Robert Dow (@Robert_Dow) August 8, 2016

[#Metro]

Nobody is winning in that scenario.

Land owner has empty land
People who want parking cannot get it

The solution here is to have the land-owner charge a fee to park on that land.

[SurfRail]

The land owner does not want people parking there, clearly.

[#Metro]

The land owner does not want people parking there, clearly.

Must be expensive for fence rental, council rates on the land and so forth while it is empty and doing nothing, not earning anything.

Here is a solution!

Car parks that are often parked out should charge a nominal flat fee. Perth has it integrated with smart rider card, initially only new stations, this was changed to all station car parks.

[BrizCommuter]

The land owner does not want people parking there, clearly.

Precisely! This issue shows how much pressure there in on station parking, when empty lots of land are being (illegally) used for station parking.

[#Metro]

Who owns the land?

[ozbob]

The solution:

Proper feeder bus networks with improved active transport options.

Park n' ride at a nominal cost (should be slightly more than the average bus fare to the station) linked to go card (or future equivalent). 

Transperth is a shining light in terms of how to do it:  >  http://www.transperth.wa.gov.au/parking

Some locations it may not be appropriate to charge for park n' ride that lack other options eg. Rosewood.

[ozbob]

The solution:

Proper feeder bus networks with improved active transport options.

Park n' ride at a nominal cost (should be slightly more than the average bus fare to the station) linked to go card (or future equivalent). 

Transperth is a shining light in terms of how to do it:  >  http://www.transperth.wa.gov.au/parking

Some locations it may not be appropriate to charge for park n' ride that lack other options eg. Rosewood.

^ this is probably beyond the capabilities inherent within the public transport administration and governance in banana-land.

But you can live in hope I guess ...   

[SurfRail]

Must be expensive for fence rental, council rates on the land and so forth while it is empty and doing nothing, not earning anything.

There are any number of reasons why the site may be vacant and why the owner would not want randoms parking on it every day.  It is not for us to force them to do anything.

[#Metro]

There are any number of reasons why the site may be vacant and why the owner would not want randoms parking on it every day.  It is not for us to force them to do anything.

Disagree. Nobody has demonstrated permanent physical harm from parking vehicles on the site, it has been done before and it is entirely voluntary transaction if the owner is being paid.

[SurfRail]

^ You are very naive about property ownership and development and the associated risks.  I will leave it at that.

[James]

Disagree. Nobody has demonstrated permanent physical harm from parking vehicles on the site, it has been done before and it is entirely voluntary transaction if the owner is being paid.

Council zoning laws would make that illegal. There was an article somewhere a few years ago where council was considering fining people for renting out their unused garages in Spring Hill etc. because it meant their house was violating zoning laws.
Also, you'd probably have to comply with DDA & take out indemnity insurance in the case anybody manages to injure themselves on site. All too hard for the land owner, it is much easier for him to put up a fence. Red tape and Slater & Gordon save the day.

Back to the parking situation - you really can't blame people for driving to the station when feeder buses are so poor. It really is a sign of the times when >90% of the issues with transit in Brisbane come back to BCC's control of Brisbane Transport (and the flow on effects of that).

[#Metro]

Council zoning laws would make that illegal

Have a link to the actual law? How ridiculous and sad!

It still doesn't stop the landowner leasing it and having a separate car park operator come in and do the work of management for it. But yes, more complicated.

[James]

Have a link to the actual law? How ridiculous and sad!

It still doesn't stop the landowner leasing it and having a separate car park operator come in and do the work of management for it. But yes, more complicated.

Article here: Brisbane City Council warns black market car park rentals are illegal

A permit (effectively a DA) needs to be filed to make the carpark legal. Given the land is probably vacant because the owner may be waiting for capital to fund a development/a DA for the development, there's no point.

[SurfRail]

Some years ago I documented a car parking licence over what was at the time a prominent vacant inner city development site.  The owner understood fully that they did not have a suitable DA for the use, that it wasn't DDA compliant and that BCC could stop them at any time.  So too did the licensees whose staff occupied nearby buildings.  The money was that good that they didn't mind, despite our advices.  They were in numerous senses of the term "big boys" and there is only so much we can do as lawyers.

Funnily enough, BCC got wind of their operation and shut it down rather promptly.

My arse was entirely protected, and they went into with both eyes open but ultimately came off second best.

There are a multitude of planning, legal, commercial and other considerations which affect any use of land.  Just because most people don't actually encounter them in their day-to-day lives does not mean they don't exist.

[#Metro]

Thanks for sharing.

How sad! Clearly just protecting its own revenue in the CBD it seems and the other car park operators.

Similar thing can be seen in other places with banning AirBnB and such.

[ozbob]

Quest South West News 17th August 2016 page 7

Carpark call for station

[#Metro]

Cost of duplicating Darra Car park. Assume 2x expansion.

206 spaces x 40K = $8.24 million dollars. Good luck Mr Butcher.

Doesn't even fill half of one train. About $40K per passenger.

Not surprised to see all the bad bus routes quoted by TransLink. 103, 451 and 452. These are shocking ' services '.

How about bus reform. OOPS!!

[ozbob]

The solution:

Proper feeder bus networks with improved active transport options.

Park n' ride at a nominal cost (should be slightly more than the average bus fare to the station) linked to go card (or future equivalent). 

Transperth is a shining light in terms of how to do it:  >  http://www.transperth.wa.gov.au/parking

Some locations it may not be appropriate to charge for park n' ride that lack other options eg. Rosewood.

Not rocket science is it?



In  Brisbane and SEQ generally we just have circular arguments about parking.

Other jurisdictions do things to sort it.  Whoa, not in banana-land, just circular arguments ..

[ozbob]

^^ My daughter commented to me this morning that " ... a lot of people are driving to Darra early to park ".

Yes they are.  Feeder buses are abysmal generally and more senseless spin from TransLink doesn't help. 

What will help is fixing up a proper feeder bus network.

This is causing a lot of local frustration around Darra, and I understand Brad's point of view (I know Brad).

[ozbob]

Sent to all outlets:

17th August 2016

The park and ride solution ...

Greetings,

More car parking angst in the local press today.

This time Darra.  South West News 17th August 2016 page 7 Carpark call for station  (see below).

Filling up trains, buses and ferries by park and ride spaces is a very very expensive non-solution in the end.

For example if we duplicated the present 206 spaces at Darra to say 412 at a conservative cost of $30,000 per space, it would cost $6.2 million.  406 spaces fills half a train!

The solution:

Proper feeder bus networks to key rail and bus stations and ferry terminals with improved active transport options.

Park n' ride at a nominal cost (should be slightly more than the average bus fare to the station) linked to go card (or future equivalent).

Transperth is a shining light in terms of how to do it:  >  http://www.transperth.wa.gov.au/parking

Some locations it may not be appropriate to charge for park n' ride that lack other options eg. Rosewood.

More meaningless spin from TransLink is not what is needed.  What is needed is action to fix up feeder bus networks, today.

Best wishes,
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

[ozbob]

Media: The park and ride solution ...
> https://t.co/fcWsHW2Cn5#qldpol@TransLinkSEQ @TMRQld @Team_Quirk pic.twitter.com/xHMYnkkLDI

— Robert Dow (@Robert_Dow) August 16, 2016

[James]

Fact is, the feeder buses are appalling. 103 is hourly and dies at 6pm. 451 and 452 are peak-only services which run roughly ever half an hour. Centenary suburbs surrounded by appalling levels of bus service. Very easy fix here - upgrade the feeders!

Another problem which can be solved by... bus network reform! The current bus network is the "root of all evil" - fix it up, and parking problems will simply vanish at train stations, shopping centres etc.

[SurfRail]

I don't understand why TransLink is perfectly happy to pay for near empty trains every half-hour to midnight but can't even fund much, much cheaper to run feeder buses hourly past 6pm.

[ozbob]

Sent to all outlets:

17th August 2016

Re: The park and ride solution ...

Greetings,

Re the comments from the TransLink spokesman in the article, viz:

" .. commuters could catch several bus routes to connect with the station, including 103, 451 and 452. "

Really?  103 is hourly and dies at 6pm. 451 and 452 are peak-only services which run roughly every half an hour. Centenary suburbs are surrounded by appalling levels of bus service.

It is little wonder that commuters in most cases have no option other than to drive and clog up Darra with parked cars!

No one can take TransLink seriously anymore when they offer just spin, rather than moving to establish proper feeder bus networks.

Best wishes
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

[ Attached: http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=532.msg178120#msg178120 ]

[ozbob]

Latest: ' Re: The park and ride solution ... '
> https://t.co/zneMTuBZCj#qldpol@StirlHinchliffe @TransLinkSEQ pic.twitter.com/pbs0NZJLUg

— Robert Dow (@Robert_Dow) August 17, 2016

[ozbob]

^

Darra is a car parking basket case Premier @AnnastaciaMP basically because of poor feeder buses ..#qldpol
>> https://t.co/Jf483RPvoI

— Robert Dow (@Robert_Dow) August 17, 2016

The Premier is the local MP by the way.  In fact before the electorate office moved to Richlands it used to be opposite Darra railway station.

[ozbob]

There's anger among Pacific Fair employees, after management suggested they catch public transport to work #7News https://t.co/YFNTQAAm75

— 7 News Queensland (@7NewsQueensland) August 20, 2016

[#Metro]

Old habits die hard! The fact that it made it on to the news bulletin shows this.

Parking isn't free. Neither to provide or maintain.

There is an opportunity cost for having the car park occupied by a staff car all day, when customers are looking (and paying) for parking.

Management should offer car park space for staff - for an appropriate fee, of course.

Australia Fair has had paid parking for ages, and most road parking is metered also.

[SurfRail]

Boo freaking hoo.

Pacific Fair is trading its tits off.  Management is not going to remove paid parking, and nor should they.

The main issue with the public transport system is the idiotic operating hours (eg last service on Rotue 743 is before 4:30pm).

[techblitz]

if it takes more cars off the rd around pac fair and gets more onto surfside buses then I'm all for the paid parking.

[ozbob]

Sent to all outlets:

17th August 2016

The park and ride solution ...

Greetings,

More car parking angst in the local press today.

This time Darra.  South West News 17th August 2016 page 7 Carpark call for station  (see below).

Filling up trains, buses and ferries by park and ride spaces is a very very expensive non-solution in the end.

For example if we duplicated the present 206 spaces at Darra to say 412 at a conservative cost of $30,000 per space, it would cost $6.2 million.  406 spaces fills half a train!

The solution:

Proper feeder bus networks to key rail and bus stations and ferry terminals with improved active transport options.

Park n' ride at a nominal cost (should be slightly more than the average bus fare to the station) linked to go card (or future equivalent).

Transperth is a shining light in terms of how to do it:  >  http://www.transperth.wa.gov.au/parking

Some locations it may not be appropriate to charge for park n' ride that lack other options eg. Rosewood.

More meaningless spin from TransLink is not what is needed.  What is needed is action to fix up feeder bus networks, today.

Best wishes,
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

From the Quest South West News 31st August 2016 page 3

Lobbyist deems more station parking $6.2M waste

[tazzer9]

6.2 million is nothing to people anymore.  They will see 6.2 million and scream "what a bargain".  Tell them it would be cheaper for the government to pay taxi's to drop everyone from the station right to their house.  However, any new station that is built with a large park and ride should be multistory.  Still amazed how springfield central, ferny grove, varsity lakes and many MBRL stations were built without multistory car parks.

The ferny grove line solution of having most customers walk to the station is the best option.

[techblitz]

darra is horrendous....one of the worst imo.......some commuters are parking a good 500+m from the station just to get a park.

[ozbob]

As it gets worse TB, more street parking restrictions are put in place, and the cycle repeats. 

As a community we cannot keep on doing what we have done.  Park and ride will have to be paid for but only when decent feeder bus networks are in place.  As was pointed out previously, Perth does this right.

" Transperth is a shining light in terms of how to do it:  >  http://www.transperth.wa.gov.au/parking "