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Author Topic: Car parking - solutions?  (Read 150831 times)

Offline ozbob

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Car parking - solutions?
« on: February 21, 2008, 07:20:16 PM »
Car parking at railway stations is a major problem.  Below are some photos around Oxley.  The car park itself is inadequate, and cars are parked around the streets restricting access and in themselves becoming a hazard of sorts.  It is also very difficult for residents and local businesses too in many cases.

Some lines have more problems than others.  The Ferny Grove line has major car parking issues.

It is simply not possible to keep on building more and more car parks.  A better way must be found.  One solution is use local feeder buses. Similar in concept to the city loop buses. 

Any ideas?



Cars outside the main car park at Oxley

Photograph R Dow 21 Feb 2008


Overflow in side street



Photograph R Dow 21 Feb 2008


Main car park full to overflowing ...



Photograph R Dow 21 Feb 2008
« Last Edit: November 12, 2008, 12:01:58 PM by ozbob »
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Offline Derwan

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Re: Car parking - solutions?
« Reply #1 on: February 21, 2008, 08:02:42 PM »
Car parking is definitely an issue and is something I was going to raise in here - but figured there were more important things (i.e. more services) that the government needed to spend our tax dollars on first.

Northgate is another example of insufficient parking despite there being 3 separate car parks.  On weekdays, all the side streets are lined with cars on both sides.  I think this is exacerbated by the lack of services - particularly on the Shorncliffe line.  I know several people who drive to Northgate rather than catch a train from their local station so that they have a better choice of services.

I happened to drive past Carseldine on a weekday.  Cars there spill out of the surfaced car park onto "temporary" dirt and grass areas.

At Boondall, the Park'n'ride facility is not used because it is on the opposite side of the line to all the houses, which means taking a large detour to get to the overpass, going in the Entertainment Centre entrance and doubling back towards the station.  Even then people don't park in the actual facility as it's closer to park on the street.  Most just park along the street on the residential side.

I remember seeing a huge document somewhere on the TransLink site basically saying that providing park'n'ride facilities is a good idea.

What's the solution?  Multi-level car parks? 

Bob's suggestion of feeder buses is good, but it's another "wait" time.  Wait for the bus, go to the station, wait for a train.  Those who have to switch trains have to wait again.  Also, buses will probably zigzag the streets to service the greatest area possible.  This combined with the stop-start will result in significantly increased travel time just to get to the station.  People might prefer to stick with their cars.

I'm not dissing the idea, I'm just playing devil's advocate.

My housemate sometimes catches a bus between the end of our street and the station, but it only runs a couple of times a day and is a zone 4 service while the train is zone 3 to the city.  (He doesn't have a car and catches the bus out of laziness.)
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Offline Mozz

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Re: Car parking - solutions?
« Reply #2 on: February 22, 2008, 07:35:19 PM »
I can't say I am a public transport expert - more like a somewhat informed commuter looking to support initiatives which promote public transport as the method of choice to get from one place to another. But my take on the situation is that feeder type buses would work well if we had frequency of trains that didn't need consultation of a timetable during peak periods because they were running every 10 - 15mins regardless between 6am and 9am and then again between 3.30pm - 6.30pm.

Looking forward to input from those with more knowledge in the area - either life experience or public transport academics :)



Offline ozbob

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Re: Car parking - solutions?
« Reply #3 on: February 22, 2008, 08:09:51 PM »
Most people are possibly familiar with the free city loop buses
This is a good model for running similar services to feed railway stations IMHO.



Photograph R Dow 20 Feb 2008


Normally ticketing requirements would apply but say run regular local buses that run defined paths say between 5am to 9am and 4pm to 8pm daily.  In my own location a good plan would be between Darra and Oxley railway stations running route that picks up from residential areas.  With a bit of thought, the route could be within short walking distance from most houses.   These buses could be identified as for the City loop buses with distinctive colour schemes.  For people that couldn't use these timings they could do what they do now.

I don't think people would mind getting on a bus for a short run to the station. They would not have to worry about car parking and security of their car too.

One bus route that I am aware of that operates as a feeder is route 467.  It runs from Windermere to Oxley railway station, about a 10 minute journey. This has a restricted timetable but shows the basic concept.  I have been watching this bus closely and it seems that loadings are increasing.

Just some thoughts.

Cheers
Ozbob
« Last Edit: February 22, 2008, 08:48:16 PM by ozbob »
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Offline ozbob

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Re: Car parking - solutions?
« Reply #4 on: February 23, 2008, 03:57:55 PM »
Interesting snippet from the West Australian Newspaper, Feb 22 considering the discussion in this thread:


WA, Mandurah rail users urged to use bus as carparks overflow
22nd February 2008, 6:45 WST
 
A $10,000 advertising campaign to convince Mandurah railway users to take the bus to the train station will begin in the next month as the State Government tries to combat overflowing carparks at some platforms. An expansion of the northern line?s Greenwood station carpark will be completed by September.


Isn't this a great photo?  Cars in gridlock next to the train!
Do the trains look familar??
Photograph from West Australian





« Last Edit: February 23, 2008, 04:22:56 PM by ozbob »
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Offline david

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Re: Car parking - solutions?
« Reply #5 on: February 23, 2008, 07:39:43 PM »
One bus route that I am aware of that operates as a feeder is route 467.  It runs from Windermere to Oxley railway station, about a 10 minute journey. This has a restricted timetable but shows the basic concept.  I have been watching this bus closely and it seems that loadings are increasing.

I regularly catch the 451 bus route to Darra which services Sinnamon Park. It is a great route as it only services one suburb which makes the journey to Darra station quick & efficient. This service is certainly very popular with Sinnamon Park residents with the 6:47, 7:08 and 7:32 services almost fully seated on most days. Pretty good considering it only services one suburb! Perhaps this is the solution... Feeder buses from ONE suburb to a nearby rail station. Only then will people be more encouraged to leave their cars at home.

Meanwhile, perhaps the 467 service could be extended to start at Mt Ommaney Shopping Centre, going through Jindalee and then make its way through Windermere before going to Oxley station. This would certainly attract more commuters to this service and give that area another choice of public transport.

Offline monkey

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Re: Car parking - solutions?
« Reply #6 on: February 24, 2008, 01:45:14 PM »
Northgate is another example of insufficient parking despite there being 3 separate car parks.  On weekdays, all the side streets are lined with cars on both sides.  I think this is exacerbated by the lack of services - particularly on the Shorncliffe line.  I know several people who drive to Northgate rather than catch a train from their local station so that they have a better choice of services.

Interestingly I've occasionally considered driving to Petrie so I can take advantage of the express trains that bypass my station, but stop at Petrie.  IIRC, the Nambour and Gympie trains stop at Petrie too (and for now, they stop at Brunswick St)...

Quote
I happened to drive past Carseldine on a weekday.  Cars there spill out of the surfaced car park onto "temporary" dirt and grass areas.
It's been like that a while now - I've been in Brisbane about 2 years and they've been parking on the grass out the front of the shopping centre for at least that long.

My local station (Bald Hills) is just as bad - the main car park is usually full by 7:30am in the morning.  On the other side of the station the grass area beyond the car park is also popular.

Quote
Bob's suggestion of feeder buses is good, but it's another "wait" time.  Wait for the bus, go to the station, wait for a train.  Those who have to switch trains have to wait again.  Also, buses will probably zigzag the streets to service the greatest area possible.  This combined with the stop-start will result in significantly increased travel time just to get to the station.  People might prefer to stick with their cars.

Depends how long it takes to get to the station I guess, and whether the bus actually connects with the train rather than arriving just as the train is pulling away :-(

Quote
My housemate sometimes catches a bus between the end of our street and the station, but it only runs a couple of times a day and is a zone 4 service while the train is zone 3 to the city.  (He doesn't have a car and catches the bus out of laziness.)

That's a good point - for me the bus is zone 5, but the train is zone 4.

I'll probably start riding my bike to the station again shortly - I stopped a few months back due to work commitments, rain, and heat.  As the weather settles down I expect to get back into it.

Offline ozbob

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Re: Car parking - solutions?
« Reply #7 on: March 07, 2008, 04:08:43 AM »
This thread will be of interest too --> http://backontrack.org/mbs/index.php?topic=487.msg2377#msg2377

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Offline ozbob

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Re: Car parking - solutions?
« Reply #8 on: June 20, 2008, 10:49:33 AM »
Spencer Howson of 612 ABC Brisbane has been mentioning the Indooroopilly Station Upgrade on the breakfast show.
Some discussion on parking or lack there of.

Spencer has kindly added my comments to his blog.

See --> http://blogs.abc.net.au/queensland/2008/06/opportunity-los.html

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Bob
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Offline Julian

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Re: Car parking - solutions?
« Reply #9 on: June 20, 2008, 10:53:00 PM »
Interestingly I've occasionally considered driving to Petrie so I can take advantage of the express trains that bypass my station, but stop at Petrie.  IIRC, the Nambour and Gympie trains stop at Petrie too (and for now, they stop at Brunswick St)...

ROTFL.

Parking at PETRIE?  :-w

You're kidding.

In order to get a carpark in the undercover area, you need to be there by 6am, and all the car parks are full by just before 7am. Occasionally, you may get a car park on the new eastern car park if you are there before 7.25am. It's also unsafe with all the illegal parking opportunities - you'll find cars blocked from both sides on the upstairs level of the deck, and there's a turn around road underneath that always has at least one car parked on the north side - which is exceedingly dangerous. I'm surprised that those cars aren't wiped out.

It's absolutely insane, especially since the first express of the day leaves at 7am (hence the crush before then - it's not even a true express, Strathpine to Northgate and then Eagle Junction to Bowen Hills). This is also the most unsafe service that I have EVER seen. On the Derwan scale, it's always a SIX! It is always speed limited due to overcrowding and too much weight on the bogies after departing Strathpine. I don't even know why it stops at Toombul and Nundah because it's rare that someone can actually fit in by then - it's amusing to watch everyone run up and down the platform so they can try to fit in.

Anyway, getting back to the quote. You'll find that Weekday services to and from Gympie North don't stop at Petrie (the weekend ones do though). Most of the afternoon peak services don't either: the 4pm is the last one that does until 6.06pm - but the later is usually overcrowded. In the morning, only the two early morning expresses do, but they are very early morning services (I don't know the times from Petrie but one leaves Nambour at around 4.30am and the other at around 5.30am).

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Matt-Julian
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Offline stephenk

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Re: Car parking - solutions?
« Reply #10 on: June 21, 2008, 09:06:15 AM »
More local feeder buses would be a good idea as long as they are frequent enough and connect with the trains. It would also help if the bus fare was included in the train fare (as is done in many cities).

However, larger car parks would also help considerably. As I have mentioned before, the old tender centre site next to Enoggera station is for sale. This would be a great opportunity for QR to expand Enoggera's car park for people driving from the South Pine Road corridor. But it looks like this opportunity will sadly be wasted.
Evening peak service to Enoggera* 2007 - 7tph
Evening peak service to Enoggera* 2010 - 4tph
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Offline ozbob

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Re: Car parking - solutions?
« Reply #11 on: June 21, 2008, 09:39:52 AM »
Media Release 21 June 2008

SEQ:  Car parking, congestion, chaos and calamity.  A solution!

RAIL Back On Track (http://backontrack.org) a web based community support group for rail and public transport and an advocate for public transport users has called for dedicated buses to be introduced in the suburbs as feeder services to transport commuters from places near their homes;  to and from key bus and rail stations.

Robert Dow, Spokesman for RAIL Back On Track said:

?RAIL Back On Track has highlighted the ongoing parking problems at railway stations for some time (1).?

?As more people are forced onto public transport to save fuel costs, parking pressures around stations (rail and bus) will only increase.  Rather than driving all the way commuters will park and ride.?

?It is not possible or sensible to keep building more and more car parks. Eventually we will just have stations surrounded by hectares of car parks.?

?Car parking is causing much disruption for local residents near stations. It is causing problems with local businesses as car parks are often taken up by commuters.?

?The overload parking on streets is restricting the access of motorists and causing chaos as people attempt to drive around their suburbs.?

?Rail and bus stations need bus interchange facilities. For example with the upgrade of Indooroopilly station it would have been logical to have incorporated a bus/rail interchange as part of the upgrade.  A lost opportunity.?

?Monday to Friday, from 6am to 10am, and 3pm to 7pm daily we call for local neighbourhood buses to be introduced to provide transport for commuters to and from their residences to stations.  These buses could be painted a bright TransLink orange and become part of the local neighbourhood facilities and culture.  Routes could be chosen such that residents only have short walks to stops to catch the Station bus.?

?By having these dedicated Station buses the pressure would be off the present parking facilities, and those commuters who need to travel outside the peak times would be able to park without the present problems.?

?The parking issue is raised constantly in the media, and feedback is constantly received by us as to the problems.  Nothing substantial is ever done except more of the same; the knee-jerk response of knocking down houses and building more car parks is silly. This is a non solution for the long term. Station buses are solution that is sustainable and sensible.?

?Let?s do it!?

Reference:

1.  http://backontrack.org/mbs/index.php?topic=532.0

Contact:

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Offline ozbob

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Re: Car parking - solutions?
« Reply #12 on: June 21, 2008, 10:12:38 AM »
Thanks for the comments re Petrie MJ.

It is chaos around the streets at Oxley too.  Blackheath road is parked out each day leaving a narrow line with cars each side. A car barely fits through. I went up and had a look the other day, motorists screaming at each other, cars all over the place, pity the poor residents!  As the population increases at local housing estates the problem just escalates and gets worse.

Station buses would help.  Just part of the normal Translink network in terms of fares Stephen.
Go card could be just show and go, wouldn't be necessary to fit them with go devices initially, although that would be a longer term option.



Mythical Station Bus

Local business people who I have spoken too are having problems with commuters taking car parking spaces all days in their parks for customers.  People will park where they can I guess, they don't have much alternative at present.

Clearly, as a community we cannot continue with the problems just escalating. Something innovative needs to be done to break the cycle.

Car parks will always be needed, but if pressure can be reduced by the use of feeder buses the situation might be manageable.

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« Last Edit: June 21, 2008, 04:41:34 PM by ozbob »
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Offline ozbob

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Re: Car parking - solutions?
« Reply #13 on: June 21, 2008, 05:16:43 PM »
This a map of the Corinda - Oxley  - Darra area.

Some hypothetical 'Station Bus Routes' marked.  Similar exercises good be done for other areas.
Just ideas.  This links up Darra Oxley and Corinda railway stations through the suburbs. These runs wouldn't take much longer than 10 minutes I estimate.




Some of the main roads have regular bus services already.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2008, 12:03:10 PM by ozbob »
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Offline Mozz

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Re: Car parking - solutions?
« Reply #14 on: June 21, 2008, 06:22:21 PM »
I agree, solutions need to be found. I bought my current house which is only 300 metres from the Oxley train station as a conscious decision so that I can utilise the train and bus station. However I know the 15-20 or so train station commuter cars which park in my street (which is a culdesac) cause angst for the residents. Sometimes parking across driveways, parking against solid yellow lines thus blocking entry/exit views when trying to drive out of the street, making rubbish bin Wednesday morning a lottery for many residents as to whether the rubbish truck can access their bins due to commuter cars parked outside their properties and blocking access to bins. Commuter cars parked both up and down the street mean only one vehicle at any time can travel up or down the street, causing dangerous traffic situations on a daily if not hourly basis.

The odd commuter car or two wouldn't be a problem but 15-20 each and every week day is a pain in the A for everyone.

Then from time to time you get that special train commuter who drives a "turbo" vehicle of some time which has a turbo timer and loud exhaust which runs the vehicle for 2-5 minutes after they exit the vehicle and then takes 2-5 minutes of loud idle again before they can drive away.

A few months ago the Brisbane city council turned up and painted a solid yellow line outside my property and 3 of my neighbours houses. Not having been consulted about this event I decided to call the council and ask some questions. The council representative apologised for the lack of consultation and apparently this should have been done with affected residents, but regardless one of the primary reasons it was done was because of some complaints from train commuters who park in the street complaining about vehicles that myself or my neighbours may have parked outside of our houses.

 

Offline ozbob

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Re: Car parking - solutions?
« Reply #15 on: June 21, 2008, 06:38:23 PM »
Thanks for your comments Mozz.  It is very difficult for residents such as yourself.  This is happening all over Brisbane.

Consider this folks.

Quote
Common Urban Myths About Transport

Myth: Park-and-Ride facilities will encourage public transport use

Fact: Expecting people to drive to railway stations puts an artificial limit on the number of passengers the train system can support. Car parks are expensive to build and maintain, are space-intensive, lock up valuable real estate near stations, and require public transport users to own just as many cars as if public transport didn't exist. In well-patronised rail systems around the world, most train passengers arrive at the station by feeder bus or tram, not by car; it would simply be impossible to provide enough car parking to get all these passengers there by car instead.

More see http://www.ptua.org.au/myths/parkride.shtml

eg.

Quote
Bus to the Station: a public transport solution

The remaining alternative is feeder bus services. Part of what makes this so attractive compared with park-and-ride is that feeder buses have useful functions other than conveying train passengers to railway stations. Half of all our journeys are local trips, with the origin and destination within the same suburb, and when such journeys are made by car they also contribute disproportionately to pollution and congestion. A comprehensive bus network is essential to making public transport attractive for these local trips, as our Squaresville thought experiment shows. But as suburban activity centres and railway stations are often found in the same locations, the same buses that are useful for local travel are also useful as feeders to stations.
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Offline ozbob

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Re: Car parking - solutions?
« Reply #16 on: June 22, 2008, 03:29:10 AM »
The message below was sent as a follow up to this media release:

------------------------------------------

22 June 2008

Greetings,

Further to our media release below.

It is time to seriously consider doing something meaningful for our community.  The present approach of just building even more car parks is farcical.

Please take the time to review this thread on our message board
-->  http://backontrack.org/mbs/index.php?topic=532.0

There is a crisis in the suburbs with respect to commuter parking.  A truly smart Government would be addressing this as a priority, particularly as citizens will be using a lot more public transport as fuel prices escalate.

I watched at Blackheath Road Oxley one afternoon a week or so ago.  Cars parked both sides of the road, barely enough room for a car to pass along.
Motorists yelling and screaming at each other, residents unable to access their properties; in short a mess. This situation is replicated through out the suburbs of Brisbane.  Local businesses are being impacted as well. My local physiotherapist has to leave notes on car windows on commuters cars who are using the nearby railway station, to try to reclaim spaces for her patients.

Why is it that Government (State and Local) and our Transport Planners are stuck in yesterdays mindset?
The smart state spin comes thick and fast, but it is fast becoming a sad joke for many.

Action is needed.  Constructive action and policies.
Community education is needed.  Residents deserve better.

Thank you.

Regards
Robert

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Offline Skeetbris

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Re: Car parking - solutions?
« Reply #17 on: June 27, 2008, 08:07:48 PM »
I thought this example of our local rail feeder buses might be of interest to you and the pictures that have been posted look very similar to the streets around my local rail stations. I've even noticed people are parking near bus stops and catching the bus to the city too.

We have local feeder buses that go on a clockwise/anticlockwise route around Wynnum/Manly.  BT bus routes 223 & 224, these buses run once hourly throughout the day from approx 7.30am til 6pm. The services even run on Saturdays, hourly from 8.50 am til 5 pm but they don't run on Sundays  >:(


Below is a link to the map of the service provided by BT buses to travel through the suburbs. Going to Manly, Wynnum Central, Wynnum North and Lindum rail stations. Pity it doesn't run to meet every train but if you catch the connecting one there is a short wait before the bus arrives.

PDF here!

Edited link Admin
« Last Edit: June 27, 2008, 08:27:30 PM by ozbob »
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Offline ozbob

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Re: Car parking - solutions?
« Reply #18 on: June 27, 2008, 09:01:32 PM »
Interesting routes Skeetbris.  Thanks for the information.

Certainly is a good basis for further improvements.  One hour frequency is possibly a disincentive though for peaks, and the hours of operation I think for feeder buses should be around 6am to 10am and 3pm to 7pm in a high frequency.  This is where 'Station Buses' could be useful.

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Offline ozbob

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Re: Car parking - solutions?
« Reply #19 on: June 28, 2008, 06:54:40 AM »
Letter of the day mX

Published mX June 27

Transport problem needs fresh ideas

Parking pressures around train and bus stations will only increase as more people are forced on to public transport to save on fuel.

But it's not possible or sensible to keep building more and more car parks.

We'll eventually just end up with stations surrounded by hectares of car parks.

Parking's causing problems for residents and local traffic near stations. It's also disrupting local businesses - car parks are often taken by commuters for the duration of the working day.

Stations need bus-interchange facilities.  It would've been logical to incorporate one in the upgrade of Indooroopilly station. It's a lost opportunity.

Monday to Friday, during peak times, neighbourhood buses should be introduced to provide transport for commuters to and from their homes and stations.

They could be painted bright TransLink orange and become part of the neighbourhood culture.

Routes could be chosen so that residents only have short walks to stops.

These buses would keep pressure off the present parking facilities.

And those commuters who need to travel outside peak times would be able to park without problems.
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Offline Skeetbris

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Re: Car parking - solutions?
« Reply #20 on: June 29, 2008, 11:45:57 PM »
Quote
Certainly is a good basis for further improvements.  One hour frequency is possibly a disincentive though for peaks, and the hours of operation I think for feeder buses should be around 6am to 10am and 3pm to 7pm in a high frequency.  This is where 'Station Buses' could be useful.

    Yea unfortunately the one hour frequency is a bit of a pain when the train you catch is the one not connecting with the bus!

    It's a great basis for getting more people to the train without the parking problems but first the people in charge of public transport in SEQ need to acknowledge that frequency of service is really lousy. This is an area that needs considerable work to entice commuters out of their cars. Really the ideal for frequency is a minimum of 20 minutes in off peak and 7.5 or less in peak. Whether the price of petrol goes a lot higher and it's a distinct possibility that it will then increasing services like these feeder buses will start to play a much bigger role in future Brisbane public transport improvements.

    Make services more attractive by making them run on a more frequent basis and more people will begin to use them and leave their cars at home. They just need the reassurance of knowing there will be a bus within ten minutes of the train arriving and that will definately attract more passengers!  ;D
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Offline ozbob

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Re: Car parking - solutions?
« Reply #21 on: July 01, 2008, 06:15:51 PM »
The Satellite  2 July 2008 page 3

This article highlights the importance at a community level of these parking issues.  Well done and thanks Satellite for continuing to highlight these problems.

« Last Edit: November 12, 2008, 12:03:00 PM by ozbob »
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Offline kw

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Re: Car parking - solutions?
« Reply #22 on: July 02, 2008, 12:27:47 PM »
This isn't a solution but I'm just reporting that signs have been up for a while at Sandgate station and haven't had a chance to take a photo till now. Passengers are now resorting to parking in Curlew Park due to carparks and surrounding streets in Sandgate being full.





Kent Wagner
kentwagner@optusnet.com.au
« Last Edit: November 12, 2008, 12:03:59 PM by ozbob »

Offline kw

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Re: Car parking - solutions?
« Reply #23 on: July 02, 2008, 01:21:01 PM »
I just picked up the local paper and read that Sandgate is to get a carpark upgrade. Talk about putting me in my place  ;D



Bayside Star
Wednesday July 2nd '08
http://www.baystar.com.au/currentweek/01.pdf

Kent Wagner
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Offline ozbob

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Re: Car parking - solutions?
« Reply #24 on: July 02, 2008, 03:32:17 PM »
Thanks Kent.  The problem is all over hey?

More car parks helps but we need to implement sustainable solutions.  We simply cannot as a community just keep building more and more car parks.  The new car parking spots will just take up some of the vehicles already spilling out into the neighbourhoods.

Other ways of getting to and from the main bus  and rail stations must be implemented.

I am afraid that the authorities will start charging fees for parking, which will probably just exacerbate the problem further unless alternatives that work are provided.

 ::)

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Re: Car parking - solutions?
« Reply #25 on: July 02, 2008, 03:43:24 PM »
This is what is starting to happen around Oxley.

Photograph of Mantle Street. One side of the street parking is now banned.
This improves traffic flow but obviously pushes the motorists out further into other streets.





Another local street Annand Street.  Parking both sides. One vehicle can pass through. 
Guess it is only a matter of time before a yellow line/no parking signs appear on one side here too.



Photographs R Dow 2 July 2008


« Last Edit: November 12, 2008, 12:04:27 PM by ozbob »
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Re: Car parking - solutions?
« Reply #26 on: July 23, 2008, 04:03:32 AM »
Interesting article:

Commuters who pay for parking may get tax back

Quote
Commuters who pay for parking may get tax back
The Irish Times
July 18, 2008
MARIE O'HALLORAN

COMMUTERS WHO will have to pay up to EUR 400 annually in new car-parking
charges at train stations may be able to claim tax back similar to rebates
on train tickets, according to Iarnr?d ?ireann.

The transport company yesterday confirmed and defended its decision to
impose a EUR 2 daily and EUR 8 weekly charge at its car parks in the
greater Dublin area.

The charges, which have been criticised by commuters and politicians, will
be rolled out during the autumn.

They will start at the beginning of September at 37 stations on the
northern line Dart services, Heuston commuter routes, the Maynooth/Longford
line and the Wicklow/Gorey line.

The chairman of the Oireachtas Committee on Climate Change and Energy
Security, Fine Gael TD Se?n Barrett, said the charges would result in a "25
per cent increase in the travelling costs of someone with an annual ticket
costing EUR 1,600".

Fine Gael Meath West TD Damien English described the charges as a "stealth
tax" on commuters who would have no option but to pay.

He called for the company's EUR 96 million subsidy to be cut by the amount
it would receive in car parking.

Labour's commuter-issues spokesman Senator Dominic Hannigan said:
"Commuters should be able to claim tax back on these parking charges, just
as they are able to do with their train fares."

Barry Kenny, Iarnr?d ?ireann's manager of corporate communications, said:
"We can explore the possibility of including car parking in the tax rebate"
along with train tickets.

"We'd be very positively disposed to go down that road," although it would
depend on the economic climate and whether legislation was necessary.

He said the charges were the lowest of "any paid public transport
park-and-ride facilities in the commuter area".

The spokesman said: "This nominal charge will allow us to continue the
development of our car park facilities" to include up to 13,000 new spaces.

The company expects about EUR 1 million from the charges, but insists that
fewer than 5 per cent of the 150,000 daily commuters would be affected.

He said experience at Leixlip Louisa Bridge, Gormanston, Tullamore and
Sallins, where the weekly EUR 5 is to rise to EUR 8, had shown that people
living within walking distance were leaving their cars at home because of
the charge and " freeing up spaces for people from a wider area to benefit
 from the parking facilities".

At Leixlip Louisa Bridge, there were now "large numbers of cars from areas
such as Clane, Straffan, and other towns in Co Kildare and Co Meath which
are not served by rail. These commuters would otherwise not be able to use
our services."

Labour transport spokesman Tommy Broughan condemned the charges, claiming
they would "greatly discourage people from using public transport". He said
that a clamping company would get EUR 2 million of the estimated EUR 3
million in revenue from the new charges.

He said the charges "will also cause even more problems for residents who
live in close proximity to rail and Dart stations".

"At present many such residential areas around stations are already
choc-a-bloc with cars parked in every available space up to a kilometre or
more from the station."

Mr Barrett said that as well as providing a major disincentive to the use
of public transport, "this will force commuters to revert to using their
cars, thus increasing traffic congestion on our already choking road
network and causing CO2 emissions to soar exponentially.

"Our national transport company, CI?, cannot shirk their massive
responsibility for controlling CO2 emissions, particularly as road
transport is the biggest single source and contributes some 93 per cent of
all greenhouse gas emissions in the transport area."

Also this has some relevance to this thread --> http://backontrack.org/mbs/index.php?topic=1170.0
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Re: Car parking - solutions?
« Reply #27 on: August 23, 2008, 03:35:04 PM »
There was a gathering this morning at Oxley for residents concerned with the parking problems in Oxley to sign a petition for some relief.  It is most unsatisfactory situation, many residents in Blackheath and Howard Streets cannot even access their properties at times.

Cr Matthew Bourke was in attendance.  We had a brief chat and covered the need for more local transport for people to get to key rail and bus stations.

The main commuter car park at Oxley is being expanded by 70 spaces, but as we commented this morning, we cannot just keep knocking down houses and making more and more car parks.  I suggested that we also need the capacity on rail to feed these commuters into as well.  So at least BCC is engaged with the problems and some local relief hopefully will be forthcoming for the residents badly affected.

Cheers
Bob
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Re: Car parking - solutions?
« Reply #28 on: August 27, 2008, 08:07:14 AM »
From The Satellite  27 August 2008 page 3 

Car parking woes frustrate owners




Thanks to The Satellite for highlighting this important issue!
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Re: Car parking - solutions?
« Reply #29 on: August 29, 2008, 08:17:11 PM »
From Brisbane mX 29 August 2008 page 5

Chaos surrounds stations

Quote
Car parking at bus and rail stations is in crisis, lobby group RAIL Back On Track says.

Spokesman Robert Dow said residents and businesses near stations were sick of commuters' cars blocked their streets all day because car parks were full.

Dow said "station buses" should be introduced to shuttle commuters from car parks and their homes to key stations.

TransLink spokesman Adam Nicholson said there was already a focus on improving the integration bus and rail services.

Also, $241 million was being spent over five years on bus and rail station upgrades, including park-and-ride locations.

Thanks mX for highlighting this important issue!
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Re: Car parking - solutions?
« Reply #30 on: August 29, 2008, 08:17:41 PM »
The park-and-ride facilities will be swamped as further oil price rises bite.  It is isn't working now, and won't in the future.

What will it take for a change in the paradigm?  Riots in the streets?  Meltdown??

 ::)
« Last Edit: August 29, 2008, 08:20:12 PM by ozbob »
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Re: Car parking - solutions?
« Reply #31 on: September 01, 2008, 08:19:46 PM »
I feel sorry for the people at lindum the carpark is full by 7:20 so everyone els has to park on the other side in  the "temporary carpark" though i think this is a permanent solution as i cant see a new carpark getting built for an old staiton it would be done in one go and i highky doubt that lindum is getting planned upgrade anytime soon
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Offline Arnz

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Re: Car parking - solutions?
« Reply #32 on: September 09, 2008, 01:28:52 AM »
I cant understand why there isnt more feeder buses from the outer suburb stations as there is now.  IIRC, the old TrainLink service (pre-TransLink) covered the Sunshine Coast and Gold Coast by co-ordinating with the train (if one node is late, the other waits), and travelling under the one ticket.  The Brisbane (Pre-TransLink) equivalent of TrainLink was CityTrans, which iirc covered the Sinnamon Park area, Bracken Ridge to Carseldine Station.

The feeder buses does alleviate Car Parking spots at the major stations IMO.  The patronage may start off small, but if the service provided was frequent, it could do a lot to help.  It's gotta start off somewhere.
Rgds,
Arnz

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Re: Car parking - solutions?
« Reply #33 on: November 12, 2008, 11:51:12 AM »
Some feedback received, thanks!

Quote
We have a local bus service that started a few months ago as part of the TTA public transport push.
 
Still a long way to go:
 
First bus starts about 6.25 am and arrives at Burpengary train station at 6.35 - 3 minutes after a train departs but 13 minutes wait to the next train.
By 6.30 in the morning, there are already 100 hundred cars at least in the car park (some parked over 200 metres from the station entrance)
Next bus arrives at 7.05 - if it is late, it just misses the 7.07 from Burpengary (one of the popular express peak services)
 
The last service is at 7.30 pm from the station, but some of the evening services are timed so that as passengers are getting off the train and walking over the footbridge, the bus is leaving the station and so people have to wait for the next bus (about 15 - 20 minutes).  I know the official timetable shows connections, but you know what happens to afternoon trains and there are more trains arriving than buses departing.
 
The whole result is that there are very few people using the service and the bus company could then say that they are not getting enough patronage to warrant the services.
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Re: Car parking - solutions?
« Reply #34 on: November 12, 2008, 04:00:07 PM »
Where i live [5 min walk from manly station] many people in my surrounding streets drive to the station.Even though a new bus station was built last year.the reason? terrible timetabling.half hour frequency's and the fact that it takes longer to bus than drive.At least at manly there is future room for what i would estimate to be around 100 parks.Also wynnum north and lindum desperatly need there country fair parking areas made into real carparks.
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Re: Car parking - solutions?
« Reply #35 on: November 13, 2008, 07:51:41 AM »
From the Brisbanetimes click here!

Residents angry as commuters clog suburban streets

Quote
Residents angry as commuters clog suburban streets
Tony Moore | November 12, 2008

The problem of rail commuters clogging up inner-Brisbane streets by parking their cars close to train stations has sparked a wider debate over the future of dedicated "park-and-ride" locations.

At a Brisbane City Council meeting on Tuesday, the Liberal National Party administration voted down a strong push by the Labor Opposition to introduce a residential parking permit system to give local residents and businesses some relief from commuters who drive to inner-city train stations, park their cars and then catch the train to work.

Councillors cited the case of Windsor train station, in the city's inner-north, where free parking was attracting hundreds of rail commuters.

Translink confirmed yesterday it would continue its policy of building park-and-ride facilities in the outer suburbs, but would not increase facilities at inner-city locations.

"While park-and-ride facilities are a necessary component of the network, they often require significant land and may increase local road capacity," Translink said.

Rail patronage in South East Queensland has jumped 40 per cent in the past four years, according to Translink figures.


Opposition Leader Cr Shayne Sutton said residential parking permits would give those living and working around rail hubs some breathing space.

"What I am asking is for you to support local residents who more and more have to find themselves parked out from their local street because people are driving in to park around public transport nodes, like the Windsor rail station," Cr Sutton told Tuesday's meeting.

Labor colleague councillor David Hinchliffe presented two petitions from householders on either side of Windsor rail station calling for changes to parking controls in the suburb.

He said people from as far away as Caboolture and Pine Rivers were driving to suburbs such as Windsor - just outside the central city parking area - in order to complete the final leg of their journey to work by train.

"In this community there is serious concern about the amenity of their streets, the ability to park in their streets and they think has been as a result of the increasing popularity of public transport, in particular train travel," Cr Hinchliffe said.

After lengthy debate, the council resolved to introduce two-hour parking limits during business hours and closer checks on people parking close to intersections.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2008, 05:24:55 PM by ozbob »
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Re: Car parking - solutions?
« Reply #36 on: November 13, 2008, 05:23:14 PM »
From Brisbane mX 13th November 2008 page 4

Streets away from good parking idea

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Offline mufreight

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Re: Car parking - solutions?
« Reply #37 on: November 13, 2008, 05:33:35 PM »
At Windsor and Indoorpilly parking could be buily over the tracks and station, the opportunity should have been taken when rebuilding Indoorpilly to build a bus and rail interchange and parking over the station platforms and parking on the eastern side of the Westminister St road overbridge.
The bus interchange would reduce the numbers of cars and the parking facility would increase the numbers of rail commuters.

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Re: Car parking - solutions?
« Reply #38 on: November 13, 2008, 05:37:54 PM »
The failure to build a bus interchange on top of Indooroopilly station as part of the upgrade must rank as one of the great transport failures of recent times in Brisbane, and there have been a few hey mu?

LOL
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Re: Car parking - solutions?
« Reply #39 on: November 13, 2008, 08:53:26 PM »
What! I thought the busiest station outside of the CBD would have a bus interchange! Now in 2 years more disruptions will be caused due to them wanting to build a interchange!
"Where else but Queensland?"

 

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