Rail to the Locker Valley

[Stillwater]

Just think of the recent floods.  The flood through the Lockyer Valley was a 'tsunami', but if it had been a more conventional flood, rail may have played a part in helping evacuate people.  The railway line represents high ground in many towns through the valley.  Consideration should be given to how rail could play a part in any future evacuation strategy.  And maybe part of the rebuilding plan could be to reinstate passenger rail to Helidon, with limited daily runs operated as a shuttle to Rosewood or Ipswich.

[colinw]

(Split this off-topic discussion off the New Fare Strategy - articles and discussion thread and moved it to the general Queensland forum).

I'd love to see a return of the Helidon railcar, but don't like my chances.  I used to use it quite a bit when I first moved to Brisbane from Toowoomba - nothing was better than belting along the long double track straights with the windows open, far more enjoyable than a stuffy McCafferty's bus.  Sigh, great times!




(Gatton)

My recollection of it in the final years was that it was reasonably well used from Laidley inward, with a moderate number of passengers from Gatton and very few indeed from Helidon or Grantham.  Around 80% of all passengers came from the Rosewood to Ipswich section.

Ipswich to Gatton via train and route 539 is about 1 hour 22 according to TransLink.  Anyone got a 1993 or older timetable which shows the timing of the 'motor from Ipswich to Gatton?  I have a feeling it was about an hour, but can't remember.

[ozbob]

My elder daughter and I travelled on the last Saturday 'motor to Gatton in the early 1990s.  Was a great journey.

If this was Victoria, there would be regular VLocity units between Helidon and Brisbane.   But we are not in Victoria, we are Queensland.

Modern hybrid rail motors could be a very effective here!

[colinw]

We have shared a carriage then. I also rode the last Saturday service to Gatton in 1993, but then continued to Toowoomba via McCafferty's and returned the next day on the final Toowoomba to Ipswich service (the single car 2000 class run from Toowoomba to Ipswich that used to run on Sundays).

Even with the windy section between Grandchester & Laidley, a modern DMU capable of 120 km/h or better would easily beat road transport to Gatton & Helidon, and could be quite an attractive service.  Even the 2000 class railcars used to manage Helidon to Ipswich in a time competitive with McCafferty's.

I see no reason why Laidley, Forest Hill & Gatton could not support a rail service, or even Helidon with a decent feeder bus from Toowoomba via Withcott like the co-ordinated that used to run up until the 1980s.  There was even a station at Lawes for the ag college, now UQ Gatton.  A fair walk from the campus, but I believe they used to run a minibus down to meet the train.

[QGT]

Great photos would be good to see DMU's to Heildon or Toowoomba one day 

[Stillwater]

I don't think that Lawes is an official location anymore.  It would appear to have been subsumed into Greater Gatton.  Hybrid VLocity units would have a role to play not just from Helidon, but also on the North Coast Line.  Victoria has a higher concentration of population outside Melbourne than Queensland has outside Greater Brisbane/Ipswich/Gold Coast, partly due to good V-Line rail connections.  It is strange the Queensland Government has not investigated how effective rail could be in influencing housing affordability and viability of places such as Laidley, Forest Hill, Gatton, Helidon etc.

[Arnz]

Hybrid Vlocity units would also be better suited as something inbetween City commuter and Traveltrain.  Services could probably be co-branded as Qconnect/TransLink, with both bodies promoting the services in their respective coverage areas.  

Perhaps travelling beyond the TransLink zones could be considered as a QConnect zone and vice-versa (with machines taking both brands of their go-cards/single paper tickets).

Going into (fantasy file gunzel/foaming) mode, having the ICEs being transferred from City/TransLink to QConnect for services beyond Gympie would put the ICEs on the job they were originally intended for. (before the Tilt trains replaced them) (/end fantasy file/foaming).

[colinw]

I don't think that Lawes is an official location anymore.  It would appear to have been subsumed into Greater Gatton.  

Here is a link to the location of Lawes railmotor stop.  There is not much visible trackside any more, but you can see the access road from the uni campus, and the small bus turnaround.

[colinw]

Going into (fantasy file gunzel/foaming) mode, having the ICEs being transferred from City/TransLink to QConnect for services beyond Gympie would put the ICEs on the job they were originally intended for. (before the Tilt trains replaced them) (/end fantasy file/foaming).

My foaming gunzel fantasy for the ICEs has always been to electrify from Maryborough West into the beautiful old town centre Maryborough station, and run a decent 4 trains a day service to Maryborough to supplement the tilt services further up the coast.

Toowoomba I believe would be best served by a modern fast DMU to either Gatton or Helidon, and co-ordinated bus beyond.  At least until such time as new range crossings are built, but the funding for that will not be justified by passenger service alone.

[HappyTrainGuy]

Ipswich to Gatton via train and route 539 is about 1 hour 22 according to TransLink.  Anyone got a 1993 or older timetable which shows the timing of the 'motor from Ipswich to Gatton?  I have a feeling it was about an hour, but can't remember.

I've got one in a box somewhere. I'll have a look for it later. From the 1995 timetable if your interested.

Dep Ipswich 4.35
Arr Rosewood 4.53
Transfer to coach
Dep Rosewood 4.58
Arr Helidon 6.03

[colinw]

The Helidon Railcar timetable pre 2003 would be really interesting if its not too much trouble to dig out.

Hmmm..  Here's an interesting comparison.  Westlander to Helidon, vs. Cooroy interurban service:

Westlander:

0.0km	Roma St	19.15
	via exhibition ...
0.0 km	Roma St (again!)	19:31
11.58 km	Corinda	19:45
38.64 km	Ipswich	20:12
56.22 km	Rosewood	20:30
81.68 km	Laidley	21:01
96.41 km	Gatton	21:15
114.52 km	Helidon	21:32

So the Westlander can do Roma St to Helidon, 112km, in 91 minutes, vs. 88 minutes for the train+bus to Helidon from Ipswich.

For services covering equivalent distances to Rosewood, Gatton & Helidon on the NCL, we need to look at trains serving ELIMBAH 57.63km (similar to Rosewood), PALMWOODS 96.52 km (similar to Gatton),  and YANDINA 112 km (similar to Helidon).  

The COOROY service departing Central at 11:02AM fits the bill. I have omitted some stops.

0.0 km	Central	11:02
...
49.57 km	Caboolture	11:53
57.74 km	Elimbah	12:01
...
96.52 km	Palmwoods	12:40
...
104.1 km	Nambour	12:48 arr
104.1 km	Nambour	12:57 dep
112 km	Yandina	13:04
...
130.2 km	Cooroy	13:29

So, the Westlander manages 114.5km to Helidon (admittedly with fewer stops) in 91 minutes for an average speed of roughly 75.5 km/h, vs. an electric train doing 112 km to Yandina in 122 minutes for an average speed of 55 km/h.

Clearly the average speed of the Cooroy train is hurt by the additional stops between Caboolture and Nambour, and also the 9 minute dwell at Nambour, but still it appears that the Westlander (of all things) manages to outpace the North Coast Line interurban service quite handily, and in fact manages an average speed 9km/h higher than the much vaunted Gold Coast service (which manages the 89km to Varsity Lakes in 81 minutes for an average speed of roughly 66km/h).

Now imagine what a modern DMU with good acceleration and a top speed of 120km/h or faster could do.  Then imagine the slow and windy section between Grandchester & Laidley replaced with new tunnel alignment.

There you have it.  With modern rollingstock and a sensible timetable without too many stops, the main line as far as Gatton and Helidon could support the fastest interurban service out of Brisbane - one easily faster than either the Gold Coast or Sunshine Coast services, and in fact the Westlander manages to outpace both those lines.

Even more embarrassing is the fact that over the first 100km out of Brisbane the Westlander actually appears to be the fastest rail passenger service of any kind.  The Rocky tilt does the 112 km to Yandina in 99 minutes (Roma St, 11:00, passes Yandina without stopping: 12:39) for an average speed of 67.87 km/h, 8 minutes slower than the Westlander over the distance.

So to experience the fastest rail departure from Brisbane possible, you have to ride the Westlander, not the tilt!  

Of course the Westlander dies once it hits the range, and is rather sedate the rest of the way to Charleville, but I'm interested in the potential for a decent interurban service to the Lockyer Valley, and the answer seems to be that even in non-upgraded form and with archaic rollingstock, the line can actually support the fastest possible timings out of Brisbane of any of the available routes.

[#Metro]

I think this is a "nice to have" rather than a must have.
My support would be much stronger if Toowoomba was connected and brought into TransLink's area.

The problem is, near the Toowoomba end, the road looks more direct, the rail line isn't

[colinw]

The problem is, near the Toowoomba end, the road looks more direct, the rail line isn't

Hence the reason why even in the 1940s the main passenger service from Toowoomba was a co-ordinated bus to Helidon, then train to Brisbane via the fast part of the main line.

McCafferty's actually got their start as the road transport contractor for QR providing this service.

If Toowoomba was part of the TransLink area, and a decent co-ordinated service ran beyond an interurban terminus at Helidon, I think it would be quite a popular service.  The main reason it died out is because after electrification of the Ipswich line, the Helidon Co-ordinated got turned into the Metro-Link, connecting with all stations trains at Ipswich.  That made the Toowoomba co-ordinated a very slow all stations grind that was significantly slower than the previous Helidon focused service. 

When I was a kid growing up in Toowoomba, the Helidon railcars were very well loaded with Toowoomba passengers.  Once the bus started feeding Ipswich instead the whole service just died out over a decade or so. With the loss of the Toowoomba passengers, the railcar service became very quiet indeed beyond Gatton, and was effectively doomed at that point.

[ozbob]

If there were still enough 2000 class rail motors a regular service from Helidon to Rosewood would be immensely popular and well supported, let alone some modern DMUs.   The square in Queensland is a tiny one ...

[Stillwater]

A trip down memory lane for you, Ozbob.



Gympie people loved their 'Silver Bullet' during the food crisis.

[colinw]

If there where still enough 2000 class rail motors a regular service from Helidon to Rosewood would be immensely popular and well supported, let alone some modern DMUs.   The square in Queensland is a tiny one ...

Exactly Bob.  I can't think of another comparable region close to a capital city and on a high standard rail mainline that does not have a service.

When I moved to Brisbane in 1989, the only rail services out of Brisbane that I'd been on were the Helidon railcars, and the Brisbane Limited on the standard gauge.

The first time I took a train to Nambour I was shocked by how slow it was, and how windy the line was.  3rd rate compared to the rapid sprint across the Lockyer valley "race track", and the equally fast running between Rosewood and Grandchester.  It still irks me that the best mainline in Queensland goes unused, except for the endless procession of coal trains that has taken over in recent years.

[ozbob]

--> http://maps.bonzle.com/c/a?a=pic&fn=f852lv5l&s=3

Rail motor at Helidon

[colinw]

Reminds me of trips to Brisbane when I was a kid.  I have seen Helidon station that crowded in regular service - sometimes McCafferty's had to put on more than one bus.  There is a reason why Helidon station has such a generous platform, awning & waiting room - the Toowoomba Co-Ordinated use to be very well patronised.

The next photo - showing the flood - is utterly horrifying.

[HappyTrainGuy]

Nothing yet, though I have found my '93 ticket collection. Ah the cardboard years 

The main thing that hurts the Cooroy train/North Coast line in terms of speed and time is just the track itself. Its too windy with slower speeds and long dwell times to wait for freight/TT's to pass (Reversing at Nambour/Waiting before Cooroy etc). One trip on it last year it was close to 20mins behind schedule because of a late running freight but between Nambour and Bowen Hills it only arrived 5 minutes late. Was amazed when it did Petrie to Bowen Hills with 1 stop in 21-22 mins dead. I always find it amusing how late running express trains can do trips faster than scheduled times because of clear track and less dwell times