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Building a core Frequent network

Started by #Metro, December 30, 2010, 11:45:57 AM

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O_128

Just to clarify, Im sure a lot of people are wondering why I am pushing for a bulimba BUZ so much. Bulimba is very similar to New Farm and teneriffe and is only slightly further from the CBD, It is beginning to get a lot of density along riding and hawthorne roads and the demographics are similar to new farm. The 230 and 235 are always standing room only by wooloongabba and are consistently full on weekends. With a high frequency implemented I can easily see patronage rise to 199 levels.
"Where else but Queensland?"

Golliwog

Do many people use the Citycat from there? Just a curiosity, but may be worth finding out as IIRC they're upgrading the Tenneriffe ferry terminal to be able to have 2 Citycats docked at once, plus space for the Cats to be stored out of peak, so one would expect when thats done for them to change which of Bulimba and Tenneriffe gets the Citycats.
There is no silver bullet... but there is silver buckshot.
Never argue with an idiot. They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

O_128

Quote from: Golliwog on August 03, 2011, 22:27:46 PM
Do many people use the Citycat from there? Just a curiosity, but may be worth finding out as IIRC they're upgrading the Tenneriffe ferry terminal to be able to have 2 Citycats docked at once, plus space for the Cats to be stored out of peak, so one would expect when thats done for them to change which of Bulimba and Tenneriffe gets the Citycats.


Most people use the city cat as a second option and tbh most of the ridership is along riding road, to far to walk to the cat.
"Where else but Queensland?"

achiruel

#83
Quote from: Bulimba30A on August 03, 2011, 08:39:00 AM
I think wynnum rd needs to be a frequent corridor rather than a buz, as you really need 4 full time services from tingalpa, being Belmont rd, wynnum rd, manly rd and wondall rd. That is, unless you can set up a good interchange at tingalpa. I think it needs a complete rethink, but must include sending the 215 and 220 (or equivalent) down wynnum rd/story bridge full time and having a full time 214. Offpeak services should use cannon hill interchange.

I agree, and continuing to stop at Cannon Hill interchange would be required but how about terminating at Cannon Hill Railway Station so transfers to trains are also enabled?  Is there facility to do that there?  I haven't visited Cannon Hill Station in quite a while.

I'm not sure about the idea of having an interchange at Tingalpa.  It's kind of in the middle of nowhere, and I realise the 4 routes you mentioned would converge there, but it Cannon Hill would be the local shopping centre for some of these people, also Cannon Hill gives greater options for interchange (e.g. to Carindale/DFO on the new Route 590).

Quote
At the risk of banging on about it, imho a buz down stanley rd should not be considered without also improving the services to the estates in and around the bus depot/meadowlands rd.

You're right, I should have considered that in my original suggestion. It's such a mess of a place to serve though with narrow windy streets and quite a few no-through roads, I wonder if it wouldn't be better done with a frequent feeder to Carindale.  Looking at the map, I'm not sure exactly where it could go.  Seriously, developments like that, that make them so public-transport inaccessible, should be banned!

EDIT: Fix Quote!

HappyTrainGuy

There's no room to put a bus stop anywhere near the station unless some of the land opposite the station is used. There's a drop off bay inside the car park station building side but it would be a very tight squeeze for a bus. However an ideal option would be to use the space just past the level crossing before Armstrong street? that usually has 3 parked cars there. It might not be right outside the stations door step but it would be the cheapest option as all it requires is a sign and some cement on the ground.

somebody

Quote from: HappyTrainGuy on August 04, 2011, 13:05:03 PM
There's no room to put a bus stop anywhere near the station unless some of the land opposite the station is used. There's a drop off bay inside the car park station building side but it would be a very tight squeeze for a bus. However an ideal option would be to use the space just past the level crossing before Armstrong street? that usually has 3 parked cars there. It might not be right outside the stations door step but it would be the cheapest option as all it requires is a sign and some cement on the ground.
Not sure where you are referring to here?

HappyTrainGuy

QuoteI agree, and continuing to stop at Cannon Hill interchange would be required but how about terminating at Cannon Hill Railway Station so transfers to trains are also enabled?  Is there facility to do that there?  I haven't visited Cannon Hill Station in quite a while.

From achiruels post above.

#Metro

Network Philosophy

Suburbs ---------------------------------------------> CBD

Off-Peak

In the off-peak, feeder buses feed the BUZ route. This allow pax to be pooled
onto the trunk BUZ route and expel air parcels from the system. Feeders are sent
back to the suburbs to allow high frequency.

---|---|---|---|---|
---|---|---|---|---|
---|---|---|---|---|------|----|--------|------|-------|--> CBD BUZ
---|---|---|---|---|
---|---|---|---|---|


Peak

In the peak, demand increases such that feeder buses are full.
Interchange allows express and local
pax to be sorted into the right bus. Feeders are extended to the CBD as limited stop bullets/rockets.

---|---|---|---|---|--------------|------------------------|->
---|---|---|---|---|----------------------------------------->
---|---|---|---|---|------|----|--------|------|-------|--> CBD BUZ
---|---|---|---|---|----------------------------------------->
---|---|---|---|---|--------------|-----------------------|-->
Negative people... have a problem for every solution. Posts are commentary and are not necessarily endorsed by RAIL Back on Track or its members.

dwb

Quote from: tramtrain on November 13, 2011, 16:14:15 PM
Network Philosophy
...
In the peak, demand increases such that feeder buses are full.
Interchange allows express and local
pax to be sorted into the right bus. Feeders are extended to the CBD as limited stop bullets/rockets.

---|---|---|---|---|--------------|------------------------|->
---|---|---|---|---|----------------------------------------->
---|---|---|---|---|------|----|--------|------|-------|--> CBD BUZ
---|---|---|---|---|----------------------------------------->
---|---|---|---|---|--------------|-----------------------|-->

I understand this, but in reverse, ie afternoon peak not morning peak, this introduces a whole heap of complexity... all of a sudden it is not one route at high frequency you can get but 5 different routes, all slightly different.

#Metro

Quote
I understand this, but in reverse, ie afternoon peak not morning peak, this introduces a whole heap of complexity... all of a sudden it is not one route at high frequency you can get but 5 different routes, all slightly different.

This is a good point and you are correct.
This is actually a modification of the current rocket/pre-paid system, so its not much different to what we have now, its just faster because the
intermediate stops are axed.

The reason this comes about is because when you get a full feeder bus arrive at an interchange, there isn't air to expel like there is in the off-peak.
So it suddenly doesn't make sense to perform the interchange because you would have 65 people hop off bus 1 only to jump on BUZ and fill up a whole bus.
So you through route instead, to avoid this and also to avoid having to build a gigantic high capacity interchange to deal with 1000s of people transferring in peak.

For an example of how this works, Canberra's ACT action bus system (Jarret's design) operates this way (but on a weekend/weekday cycle rather than a peak/off-peak cycle that
I am suggesting). During weekdays buses run from the suburbs to main interchanges and then flow through the interchanges to the CBD and beyond (300 series). During the
weekends, when demand drops, doing this would be hugely inefficient and transport a lot of air. To expel the air, buses are terminated at the main interchanges, pax transfer
and a single bus (900) links the interchanges and the CBD.

Simpler network is one of the strengths of rail-bus and rail-rail interchange. If the BUZ 444 were a train, for instance, you would't have 'which rocket do I catch'
illegibility problems. Even now I don't know where all the rockets go and what their stopping patterns are. Its just a mess.
Negative people... have a problem for every solution. Posts are commentary and are not necessarily endorsed by RAIL Back on Track or its members.

#Metro

QuoteI understand this, but in reverse, ie afternoon peak not morning peak, this introduces a whole heap of complexity... all of a sudden it is not one route at high frequency you can get but 5 different routes, all slightly different.

There could be some simplifications done here. For example, BUZ 444 and BUZ Centenary could do the main trunk route.
4xx rockets could stop all stops until reaching Indooroopilly, where they would then run non-stop all the way to the CBD, (just like a busway without the actual busway)
stopping at Toowong and perhaps 1 stop at Milton.
Negative people... have a problem for every solution. Posts are commentary and are not necessarily endorsed by RAIL Back on Track or its members.

dwb

Quote from: tramtrain on November 13, 2011, 17:46:29 PM
QuoteI understand this, but in reverse, ie afternoon peak not morning peak, this introduces a whole heap of complexity... all of a sudden it is not one route at high frequency you can get but 5 different routes, all slightly different.

There could be some simplifications done here. For example, BUZ 444 and BUZ Centenary could do the main trunk route.
4xx rockets could stop all stops until reaching Indooroopilly, where they would then run non-stop all the way to the CBD, (just like a busway without the actual busway)
stopping at Toowong and perhaps 1 stop at Milton.

I know you're going to say this dupes rail, but a stop in Toowong and Milton I still think are required, these are significant destinations.

#Metro

QuoteI know you're going to say this dupes rail, but a stop in Toowong and Milton I still think are required, these are significant destinations.

Oh I agree with you there. What I'm saying is that with these rockets, pretend that they are trains. Single express pattern, with consistent stops spaced far far apart. Use interchange with the all stopper (BUZ) as if it were an all-stops train. This makes a 2-tier bus system.

At the moment, heaven knows which rocket stops where and the stopping patterns are all different, there doesn't seem to be any logic whatsoever between a rocket stopping at a minor stop or a major stop or wherever. Spaghetti!
Negative people... have a problem for every solution. Posts are commentary and are not necessarily endorsed by RAIL Back on Track or its members.

dwb

Quote from: tramtrain on November 13, 2011, 17:55:43 PM
QuoteI know you're going to say this dupes rail, but a stop in Toowong and Milton I still think are required, these are significant destinations.

Oh I agree with you there. What I'm saying is that with these rockets, pretend that they are trains. Single express pattern, with consistent stops spaced far far apart. Use interchange with the all stopper (BUZ) as if it were an all-stops train. This makes a 2-tier bus system.

At the moment, heaven knows which rocket stops where and the stopping patterns are all different, there doesn't seem to be any logic whatsoever between a rocket stopping at a minor stop or a major stop or wherever. Spaghetti!

ah ok I generally agree.

somebody

Quote from: dwb on November 13, 2011, 17:52:28 PM
I know you're going to say this dupes rail, but a stop in Toowong and Milton I still think are required, these are significant destinations.
What are you referring to here?  443, rail service or something else?

One area that needs a bit of logic applied is the Mains Rd corridor.  Every rocket along there has a unique stopping pattern.  136 can serve all express stops as present, but why's the 129 serve Pinelands, Sunnybank South and Calam Rd while the 131 serves Altandi and Mains Rd Park 'n' Ride, and both serve Hellawell.  I think both should serve Altandi for rail connections.  Obviously, the 151 should go for more 153s.

#Metro

Quote
One area that needs a bit of logic applied is the Mains Rd corridor.  Every rocket along there has a unique stopping pattern.  136 can serve all express stops as present, but why's the 129 serve Pinelands, Sunnybank South and Calam Rd while the 131 serves Altandi and Mains Rd Park 'n' Ride, and both serve Hellawell.  I think both should serve Altandi for rail connections.  Obviously, the 151 should go for more 153s.

Same with the western suburbs. Utter mess!!!
Negative people... have a problem for every solution. Posts are commentary and are not necessarily endorsed by RAIL Back on Track or its members.

Golliwog

But if they're rockets then people are getting them to get to the city, not the rail services.
There is no silver bullet... but there is silver buckshot.
Never argue with an idiot. They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

#Metro


QuoteBut if they're rockets then people are getting them to get to the city, not the rail services.

I'm just pointing out that the same network philosophy as rail can be applied to buses- single express pattern stopping only at major stops with intermediate stops done by a BUZ.

Quote
Oh I agree with you there. What I'm saying is that with these rockets, pretend that they are trains. Single express pattern, with consistent stops spaced far far apart. Use interchange with the all stopper (BUZ) as if it were an all-stops train. This makes a 2-tier bus system.

Negative people... have a problem for every solution. Posts are commentary and are not necessarily endorsed by RAIL Back on Track or its members.

somebody

Quote from: tramtrain on November 13, 2011, 21:23:56 PM
Quote
One area that needs a bit of logic applied is the Mains Rd corridor.  Every rocket along there has a unique stopping pattern.  136 can serve all express stops as present, but why's the 129 serve Pinelands, Sunnybank South and Calam Rd while the 131 serves Altandi and Mains Rd Park 'n' Ride, and both serve Hellawell.  I think both should serve Altandi for rail connections.  Obviously, the 151 should go for more 153s.

Same with the western suburbs. Utter mess!!!
How do you mean?  The west has none of that poo, which has now been implemented on Old Cleveland Rd also, with some express services serving Kismet St but not others.

Golliwog

#99
Quote from: tramtrain on November 13, 2011, 21:41:09 PM

QuoteBut if they're rockets then people are getting them to get to the city, not the rail services.

I'm just pointing out that the same network philosophy as rail can be applied to buses- single express pattern stopping only at major stops with intermediate stops done by a BUZ.

Quote
Oh I agree with you there. What I'm saying is that with these rockets, pretend that they are trains. Single express pattern, with consistent stops spaced far far apart. Use interchange with the all stopper (BUZ) as if it were an all-stops train. This makes a 2-tier bus system.

Sorry, should have been clearer. My comment was to Simon about having the Mains Rd rockets serve Altandi station for interchange to rail.

Edit: Fixed quote
There is no silver bullet... but there is silver buckshot.
Never argue with an idiot. They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

ozbob



Media release 14 November 2011

SEQ: Completing the Core Frequent Network on buses

RAIL Back On Track (http://backontrack.org) a web based community support group for rail and public transport and an advocate for public transport commuters has welcomed the many 'BUZifications' this year.

Robert Dow, Spokesman for RAIL Back On Track said:

"We have long argued that the fastest, cheapest way to improve the bus public transport system in Brisbane is a targeted, selective boost of services on fast arterial roads to properly link the CBD with the suburbs, and the suburbs with each other (1)." 

"There has been major progress this year on the 'construction'* of this network, at least on buses, with BUZ 412, BUZ 196, BUZ 180, BUZ 100, and overhauls of Yeronga area services. This is a major achievement, and it brings Brisbane much closer to completion of this minimum basic network."

To complete the radial (i.e. city-suburbs) connections, RAIL Back On Track Members believe the following BUZ services are required:

* Centenary BUZ - Major gap in BUZ network. Needs to serve Indooroopilly and Mt Ommaney.
* BUZ 375 - Justified on the basis that it is in the '1 million' club of annual bus patronage.
* BUZ 359 Eatonvale/Albany Creek- Major gap in the network. North-Western arterial roads of Old Northern Rd/South Pine/Samford Rd.
* BUZ Manly / Wynnum Road. Straight down Wynnum road to cover areas not served by Cleveland line, Cannon Hill & Eastern/Bayside suburbs.
* Bulimba/Balmoral BUZ 230 and/or 235 - inner city, high density like West End, New Farm and Paddington.
* BUZ 330 - Already on TL's plans apparently, so included here.

"Once complete, the focus can shift to cross-town connections and the much needed rail frequency improvements. The Core Frequent Network will allow low frequency non-BUZ routes to be recast as high frequency suburban feeder buses without major expenditure (2). And by working in tandem with BUZ routes during peak hour shorter journey times are possible by extending these recast feeder bus routes to the CBD to run as bullet/rocket express services with significantly limited stops (3)."

"We congratulate TransLink, Brisbane City Council and the Queensland Government for the significant work done so far on this task and trust that completion of the core frequent network remains a commitment by all political candidates in upcoming elections."


* Core Frequent Network requires no new infrastructure, is rapid to do and comparatively cheap
compared to almost all heavy 'concrete' infrastructure projects.


Contact:

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org


References:

1. Building a Core Frequent Network
http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=5173.0

2. Terminating buses at shopping centre interchanges will allow the suburban route to be sent back
to the suburbs do another run (higher frequency, which will stimulate patronage). Pooling passengers
on to the main trunk BUZ route in the off-peak will also allow seats to be used efficiently.
Suburban non-BUZ frequency improvements can be funded simply from the savings of not having to run
lots of half-empty buses all the way to the CBD.

3. As a hypothetical example, during the off-peak buses 4XX could feed the core frequent routes
BUZ 444 and Centenary BUZ at Indooroopilly shopping centre and be turned back to do another run in
the suburbs. During peak hours when patronage increases to fill these suburban non-core buses, these
services, once done with their suburban run, could be extended directly as bullet or rocket express
buses into the CBD but with only two stops- Indooroopilly and Toowong. Passengers for intermediate
stops would interchange to a BUZ service. This is similar to 'two-tier' local/express rail operations.


General:

Brisbane Frequent Transit Network Map
http://transitmapsetc.blogspot.com/

BUZ- Frequency and reliability, the winning formula
http://ses.library.usyd.edu.au/bitstream/2123/6058/1/thredbo10-themeA-Warren.pdf

Weaving a total network: cross-town and orbital routes (Route 358)
http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=5018.0
Half baked projects, have long term consequences ...
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#Metro

Quote* Centenary BUZ - Major gap in BUZ network. Needs to serve Indooroopilly and Mt Ommaney.
* BUZ 375 - Justified on the basis that it is in the '1 million' club of annual bus patronage.
* BUZ 359 Eatonvale/Albany Creek- Major gap in the network. North-Western arterial roads of Old Northern Rd/South Pine/Samford Rd.
* BUZ Manly / Wynnum Road. Straight down Wynnum road to cover areas not served by Cleveland line, Cannon Hill & Eastern/Bayside suburbs.
* Bulimba/Balmoral BUZ 230 and/or 235 - inner city, high density like West End, New Farm and Paddington.
* BUZ 330 - Already on TL's plans apparently, so included here.

You know, given the amount of BUZification this year, BUZ 412/BUZ 222/BUZ 120/BUZ 180/BUZ 196/BUZ 100 it may be possible to complete the radial part of the Core Frequent Network by the end of 2012 or at the latest mid 2013 and have the full Core Frequent Network (for buses at least, incl. cross-town) Complete by the start of 2014.
Negative people... have a problem for every solution. Posts are commentary and are not necessarily endorsed by RAIL Back on Track or its members.

dwb

Quote from: tramtrain on November 15, 2011, 20:17:29 PM
Quote* Centenary BUZ - Major gap in BUZ network. Needs to serve Indooroopilly and Mt Ommaney.
* BUZ 375 - Justified on the basis that it is in the '1 million' club of annual bus patronage.
* BUZ 359 Eatonvale/Albany Creek- Major gap in the network. North-Western arterial roads of Old Northern Rd/South Pine/Samford Rd.
* BUZ Manly / Wynnum Road. Straight down Wynnum road to cover areas not served by Cleveland line, Cannon Hill & Eastern/Bayside suburbs.
* Bulimba/Balmoral BUZ 230 and/or 235 - inner city, high density like West End, New Farm and Paddington.
* BUZ 330 - Already on TL's plans apparently, so included here.

You know, given the amount of BUZification this year, BUZ 412/BUZ 222/BUZ 120/BUZ 180/BUZ 196/BUZ 100 it may be possible to complete the radial part of the Core Frequent Network by the end of 2012 or at the latest mid 2013 and have the full Core Frequent Network (for buses at least, incl. cross-town) Complete by the start of 2014.

What routes exist that are already 15min during the middle of the day and 10min in peak but not on weekends and nights? These are the routes we should be targeting!

somebody

Quote from: dwb on November 16, 2011, 07:35:47 AM
What routes exist that are already 15min during the middle of the day and 10min in peak but not on weekends and nights? These are the routes we should be targeting!
375 is the only one I can think of OTOH.  There are a couple of frequent corridors though - South Pine Rd/Old Northern Rd, Musgrave Rd/Waterworks Rd, Logan Rd.

dwb

Quote from: Simon on November 16, 2011, 07:59:30 AM
Quote from: dwb on November 16, 2011, 07:35:47 AM
What routes exist that are already 15min during the middle of the day and 10min in peak but not on weekends and nights? These are the routes we should be targeting!
375 is the only one I can think of OTOH.  There are a couple of frequent corridors though - South Pine Rd/Old Northern Rd, Musgrave Rd/Waterworks Rd, Logan Rd.

Ahh interesting, so perhaps 375 is not far off then?

Yes of course, I should have also said combined routes or corridors much like BUZification of the previous 196/7 combo into just 196 :)

Golliwog

There is no silver bullet... but there is silver buckshot.
Never argue with an idiot. They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

somebody

Quote from: Golliwog on November 16, 2011, 19:21:51 PM
UQ Lakes routes?
Indeed.  109, 169 and 209 would all be candidates on those criteria.  I'd push 209 down the priority list though.  169 would be my pick.

390 is also at 4/hour weekday daytimes.

124/125 if consolidated into a single route - I'd pick the 125's via Fairlie Tce and the 124's Sunnybank termination - add stops to the 120 for the loss of all stops on that corridor.  The combined route is at 3/hour weekday and 2/hour weekend, so close.

300 & 411 are at 3/hour weekday also.

Golliwog

428/427/432 as well. Not sure exactly the bph but IIRC they redid it for the new Ipswich line timetable so theres roughly 4bph? I think I looked at it recently though and it's not exactly an even frequency.
There is no silver bullet... but there is silver buckshot.
Never argue with an idiot. They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

SurfRail

204 and 370 patronage are reasonably high as well, although they would be a bit further down the list.

Services like the 109 are easy to do - only need to chuck on a few evening runs for them to be able to spruik it as another BUZ.  (Remember all those buses running around in August 2009 with 109 BUZ destos?  The 169 upgrade originally intended for August 2009 would almost have qualified too except the services only ran until around 9pm, although still at 15min headways.)
Ride the G:

dwb

Quote from: SurfRail on November 16, 2011, 22:24:05 PM
204 and 370 patronage are reasonably high as well, although they would be a bit further down the list.

Services like the 109 are easy to do - only need to chuck on a few evening runs for them to be able to spruik it as another BUZ.  (Remember all those buses running around in August 2009 with 109 BUZ destos?  The 169 upgrade originally intended for August 2009 would almost have qualified too except the services only ran until around 9pm, although still at 15min headways.)

Did the 109 have BUZ destos? Wow... well as someone who has studied languages at nights at UQ, it's always been insane how the 109 stops operating at 9pm!

Gazza

Any uni which has an Architecture school, by very definition, will have a 24 hour occupation of students from say 4 weeks into semester  :hg

dwb

Quote from: Gazza on November 17, 2011, 18:51:56 PM
Any uni which has an Architecture school, by very definition, will have a 24 hour occupation of students from say 4 weeks into semester  :hg

! ha, true

... and there are colleges too... do they think students are all at home in bed by 9pm!?

Mark L

 I work now down near Wynnum North station. The Bus service in only an hour service (220 ) Makes it hard to use public transport from  Oxley to Wynnum with these frequency and I think the last service is around 6 pm.

                                                                                  Mark

HappyTrainGuy

Sums up pretty much the entire seq bus network  ;D

achiruel

Quote from: dwb on November 17, 2011, 18:59:33 PM
... and there are colleges too... do they think students are all at home in bed by 9pm!?

I guess after 9pm you could go to the city and take a 412?  Not ideal if you're on the southside I guess but it serves a lot more destinations than the 109.  Plus isn't the Chancellor's Place stop a lot closer to most of the actual buildings on the UQ campus anyway?

Quote from: Mark L on March 25, 2012, 20:38:00 PM
I work now down near Wynnum North station. The Bus service in only an hour service (220 ) Makes it hard to use public transport from  Oxley to Wynnum with these frequency and I think the last service is around 6 pm.

If your work is near Wynnum North station, wouldn't you be better off taking the train?

somebody

Hmm, that is annoying though.  Last service UQ bound over the green bridge is just after 9pm?  I guess there is the city cat and the 412 but neither is particularly convenient from the south side.

Golliwog

Quote from: Simon on March 27, 2012, 09:34:00 AM
Hmm, that is annoying though.  Last service UQ bound over the green bridge is just after 9pm?  I guess there is the city cat and the 412 but neither is particularly convenient from the south side.
If the 29 was easily accessible from the southside, it could be a relatively easyway to keep access going across to UQ Lakes with a low cost? Maybe after 7pm, it could serve Buranda before going onto the Gabba?I'm thinking PA Hospital, O'Keefe St, Inbound Buranda Platform, Gabba. It is a slight detour, but considering how few would be using it, may be acceptible?
There is no silver bullet... but there is silver buckshot.
Never argue with an idiot. They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

#Metro

They can just catch 412 to the city and change.
The alternative is to put some extra 209 services on late at night to facilitate interchange at Buranda. What this will do is allow people to (a) get to Park Road trains, (b) get to Buranda to go North (City-bound) or South (8 Mile Plains, Sunnybank) or East (Carindale).

209 is a really versatile route...
Negative people... have a problem for every solution. Posts are commentary and are not necessarily endorsed by RAIL Back on Track or its members.

Golliwog

Quote from: tramtrain on March 27, 2012, 12:05:54 PM
They can just catch 412 to the city and change.
The alternative is to put some extra 209 services on late at night to facilitate interchange at Buranda. What this will do is allow people to (a) get to Park Road trains, (b) get to Buranda to go North (City-bound) or South (8 Mile Plains, Sunnybank) or East (Carindale).

209 is a really versatile route...
But is the service needed all the way to Carindale? If you ran the 29, they could just change to 200 or 222. Catching 412 is doable, but painful when if you had left an hour or so earlier you could be at Buranda in 5 minutes rather than in 30 minutes (412 to City is 20 minutes, 10 minutes for interchange and travel assuming a good connection)
There is no silver bullet... but there is silver buckshot.
Never argue with an idiot. They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

#Metro

Core Frequent Network Discussion Model
For Discussion Purposes Only
NOT OFFICIAL RAILBOT VIEW/PROPOSAL


What is the Core Frequent Network?

The Core Frequent Network (CFN) are main high-frequency, high-capacity
bus, train and ferry lines that run at least every 15 minutes, from 6 am
to 11.30 pm, every day of the year. They're the public transport version
of the main and arterial roads. Services are intended to be direct, fast
and high speed, with priority treatments where necessary. Stop spacing may
be wider than usual to facilitate high speed. The CFN is mode neutral-
which means trains, ferries and buses are included, however, the train network
is not shown in the CFN model as it is assumed that all relevant lines will
be ultimately upgraded, and furthermore, the alignment of the lines are fixed.

Why do we need the CFN? Why do I care?

Brisbane runs approximately 220 bus routes, many of these have been designed
almost a decade ago when integrated planning was not practiced, and modes
competed against one another for patronage. The result - a complete mess and
relic of a system that requires the highest fares, highest government subsidies
and low frequency (the worst of all worlds).

When will the CFN be in operation?

No idea! This is a discussion proposal only.
The CFN is designed to be the minimum basic network for getting around Brisbane
without a car. The CFN is designed to improve public transport significantly
while being fast to roll out, cheap to fund (little or no new infrastructure
required).

How is this going to be funded?

- Remove 'deadwood' routes
- Alter existing routes
- The CFN consists of about 40 core routes. Brisbane Transport runs 220 routes
currently. That's 5 times more routes than the CFN. Much of the funding will come
from the recycling of current routes and re-allocation of that to new, CFN lines.

I don't see a line to suburb X? Why not?

Not all areas can get CFN grade services - CFN is meant to be the MINIMUM BASIC
network. It will allow feeder services (not shown - should be drawn in blue lines
with 5 width thickness) to feed into the CFN.

Where are the coverage routes/rockets and 30 minute routes?

The CFN shows THE CORE ONLY. It is up to you to draw them in!

City stop locations are not defined and some services end suddenly! What's
going on there?

This is a discussion model only. One of the key questions is how much service
needs to go via the Captain Cook Bridge, and how much via the Victoria Bridge
and Cultural Centre.

I don't like X (insert grieveance of choice)? Can you change it?

As this is a discussion model, the onus is on YOU to download the KMZ file
and propose changes and then upload images or suggestions of that so the
discussion can get going. Use google maps or google earth to make alterations.
Remember to keep a record of changes so you can discuss them.


Negative people... have a problem for every solution. Posts are commentary and are not necessarily endorsed by RAIL Back on Track or its members.

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