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Author Topic: Article: Revival of city tunnel concept  (Read 3516 times)

colinw

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Article: Revival of city tunnel concept
« on: December 14, 2010, 09:44:26 AM »
The Mercury: Revival of city tunnel concept

Quote
A TUNNEL under the city could be a viable solution to Hobart's traffic problems, says Lord Mayor Rob Valentine.

"The idea has come up and everyone says it will be too expensive but we have never seen actual costs," he said.

Alderman Damon Thomas last night revived the concept of retired local land surveyor Max Darcey for a tunnel from the Southern Outlet at Davey St to Brooker Ave under West Hobart and North Hobart, and a second stage through the Queen's Domain to the Tasman Bridge.

But fellow aldermen at the council meeting said the city needed traffic solutions that did not involve building costly tunnels and watered down his motion to seek a staff report to examine the proposal.

An amendment by Alderman Marti Zucco called on the council to gauge state and federal government support to work in conjunction with the council on the report.

The amendment was carried six votes to five.

Ald Thomas said the tunnel would complement the recommendations of Jan Gehl, whose report on public spaces included new treatment for Macquarie and Davey streets including bus lanes and widened footpaths.

Ald Thomas said the tunnel could be developed and operated as a private-public partnership and supported by a toll.

"People will not pay a toll," Ald Valentine said.

Offline #Metro

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Re: Article: Revival of city tunnel concept
« Reply #1 on: December 14, 2010, 10:24:28 AM »
Just get BRT. Hobart has THE WORST BUS SYSTEM I have ever ridden on!
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Offline #Metro

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Re: Article: Revival of city tunnel concept
« Reply #2 on: December 14, 2010, 10:31:45 AM »
Also in the news, water meters come to Tasmania --->  ;D  http://www.themercury.com.au/article/2010/12/14/192991_tasmania-news.html
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Posts are commentary and are not necessarily endorsed by RAIL Back on Track or its members. Not affiliated with, paid by or in conspiracy with MTR/Metro.

somebody

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Re: Article: Revival of city tunnel concept
« Reply #3 on: December 15, 2010, 12:52:08 PM »
I really don't see how Hobart could afford a cross city tunnel.  And traffic congestion isn't that awful there that I could understand such a project even being thought about.

colinw

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Re: Article: Revival of city tunnel concept
« Reply #4 on: May 12, 2011, 10:26:02 AM »
The Mercury -> click here

Quote
HOBART tunnel advocate Alderman Damon Thomas is still backing construction of a tunnel from the city end of the Southern Outlet to near the Hotel Grand Chancellor in Macquarie St -- despite negative reactions from state and federal government ministers.

Federal Infrastructure and Transport Minister Anthony Albanese said planning for development of the Hobart road network "is a matter for the Tasmanian Government and Hobart City Council".

And Tasmanian Infrastructure Minister David O'Byrne said recent analysis by the Department of Infrastructure, Energy and Resources showed most traffic using the Davey St-Macquarie St couplet was destined for the Hobart CBD with little through traffic.

Therefore the building of a tunnel to bypass the CBD would not solve traffic issues.

Mr O'Byrne said the preferred approach of DIER was to continue working with the council on improving traffic flows in Macquarie and Davey streets.

DIER staff have told the HCC a computerised model of the Hobart CBD this year will test various traffic scenarios, including a tunnel.

Ald Thomas said: "I think it is positive, I think we will get there."

He believed figures on through traffic were artificially low and numbers of vehicles were not the issue but the type, including log trucks.

He said the type of tunnel he envisaged would be cut-and-cover, which was built in a shallow trench.

This was a low-cost way to build a tunnel.

Dean Quick

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Re: Article: Revival of city tunnel concept
« Reply #5 on: May 12, 2011, 08:15:16 PM »
A tunnel in Hobart ???  Is this guy for real? Must be related to that other road tunnel advocate Campbell Newman??

Offline Jonno

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Re: Article: Revival of city tunnel concept
« Reply #6 on: May 13, 2011, 12:34:25 AM »
Oh goody doody another financial distaster that can eat up some more Super Funds.  Time to take off the blind fold.

colinw

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Re: Article: Revival of city tunnel concept
« Reply #7 on: May 23, 2011, 09:44:11 AM »
This insanity rolls along unchecked ...

The Mercury -> click here

Quote
THE Hobart tunnel proposal is a great idea, says a university engineering expert.

University of Tasmania geomechanics lecturer Hongyuan Liu said a tunnel would counter traffic congestion in the city.

"With the expansion of the city we have the problems of modern-day traffic congestion, we have air pollution and there is limited space especially for the CBD," he said. "I think it would be a great idea."

Dr Liu, whose expertise is in the application of rock and soil mechanics, said university engineering students could work on a pre-feasibility study to resolve the best location and most suitable tunnel design.

Hobart City Council recently voted to establish a working party to evaluate the feasibility of a tunnel, with advocate Alderman Damon Thomas suggesting it be four lanes each way and follow an alignment under Macquarie St from where it connects with the Southern Outlet to the gasworks near the Hotel Grand Chancellor.

Dr Liu said the rock in this area was sandstone and dolerite, and building a tunnel through it would be feasible.

He conceded that underground construction was more expensive than building on the surface but, in the long term, with expansion of the city, the costs would not be prohibitively expensive especially when ensuing environmental benefits were considered.

The rock under Hobart was similar to that encountered in building other vehicle tunnels in Sydney and Brisbane.

"The technology at this moment would be no problem for the excavation. There should be no problem with the sandstone," Dr Liu said.

Extremely hard rock had been successfully excavated in Switzerland, he said.

Ald Thomas said the council's recent decision to establish a group to investigate the proposal was a triumph for common sense.

He said the tunnel would return Macquarie and Davey streets to the people, allowing more everyday pedestrian use.

Ald Thomas said he expected the Greens would argue that people would be riding bikes in the future and there would be rapid transport everywhere.

But he said the reality was that cars were here to stay, albeit powered differently.

He said the proposed tunnel would not just be for cars but also buses and heavy transport.

He expected trenching, a less costly method than tunnelling, could be used to build it.

Ald Thomas said it was far too early to consider whether the tunnel would be a toll road.

He said it was a trend across the world to use underground space in crowded cities.

Greens alderman Helen Burnet said the tunnel proposal for Hobart was nothing but "pie in the sky".

Ald Burnet said other solutions existed to reduce the traffic on Macquarie and Davey streets.

"We don't need a sledgehammer to crack a nut," she said.

"This is going to be like the cable car saga."

Offline Jonno

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Re: Article: Revival of city tunnel concept
« Reply #8 on: May 23, 2011, 06:44:05 PM »
Got to love when a geomechanical lecturer comments on traffic planning.  Bit like an accountant commenting on a medical procedure. Sure they know something about it but it is not who I am going to get to do it!!

Offline Stillwater

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Re: Article: Revival of city tunnel concept
« Reply #9 on: May 23, 2011, 08:41:04 PM »

I think the concept of having uni students work on a project that is within their technical field is s good one, putting to one side the Hobart tunnel issue.  How much more powerful could some of the concepts discussed here could be if Rail Back On Track then approached the engineering departments of our local universities with the possibility of having PhD students doing a Masters on a matter transport, or having it as a problem-solving exercise within their course of academic study.  The government would be less inclined to dismiss a concept that has such backing.

For example, I am aware of architectual students who came up with the concept of a cheap and functional 'box' that could be shipped as a flat pac and assembled to provide shelter for those affected by disaster.

I assume that train scheduling is a product of a mind trained in arithmatics.  Getting more trains through Brisbane's train network would be a challenging exercise for one or two uni students.

So while we might ridicule tunnels under the River Derwent, we should consider the broader possibilities for using the collective wisdom of uni students who will, in a few years time, be doing the very things we ask them to conceptualise about today.


Offline Zoiks

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Re: Re: Article: Revival of city tunnel concept
« Reply #10 on: May 23, 2011, 09:01:49 PM »
Well I did my final year project on increasing efficiency in the SEQ network

But I'm just an undergrad... guess that's not good enough =P

Offline Golliwog

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Re: Article: Revival of city tunnel concept
« Reply #11 on: May 23, 2011, 09:09:20 PM »

I think the concept of having uni students work on a project that is within their technical field is s good one, putting to one side the Hobart tunnel issue.  How much more powerful could some of the concepts discussed here could be if Rail Back On Track then approached the engineering departments of our local universities with the possibility of having PhD students doing a Masters on a matter transport, or having it as a problem-solving exercise within their course of academic study.  The government would be less inclined to dismiss a concept that has such backing.

For example, I am aware of architectual students who came up with the concept of a cheap and functional 'box' that could be shipped as a flat pac and assembled to provide shelter for those affected by disaster.

I assume that train scheduling is a product of a mind trained in arithmatics.  Getting more trains through Brisbane's train network would be a challenging exercise for one or two uni students.

So while we might ridicule tunnels under the River Derwent, we should consider the broader possibilities for using the collective wisdom of uni students who will, in a few years time, be doing the very things we ask them to conceptualise about today.


They kind of do at UQ. Theres a 1st year class that (when I did it anyway) the coursework was a semester long assignment where you were given a project based on an Engineers without Borders problem. Of course, being only a first year class there was nothing to major about these, and they certainly weren't Brisbane based, but that said theres not a lot you can do within Brisbane. I have some friends doing 4th year Civil Design (a full year class) and something like what you mention here is probably worked into that though.
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Offline Fares_Fair

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Re: Re: Article: Revival of city tunnel concept
« Reply #12 on: May 23, 2011, 09:31:53 PM »
Well I did my final year project on increasing efficiency in the SEQ network

I guess you would have had plenty of material to work with Zoiks ...  ;D
No disrespect on your work.

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Offline Gazza

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Re: Article: Revival of city tunnel concept
« Reply #13 on: May 23, 2011, 10:11:32 PM »
Quote
For example, I am aware of architectual students who came up with the concept of a cheap and functional 'box' that could be shipped as a flat pac and assembled to provide shelter for those affected by disaster.
OMG, that was the very first project we did in 1st year Architecture...This was the one the group I was in did:


Offline Golliwog

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Re: Article: Revival of city tunnel concept
« Reply #14 on: May 23, 2011, 10:18:53 PM »
Quote
For example, I am aware of architectual students who came up with the concept of a cheap and functional 'box' that could be shipped as a flat pac and assembled to provide shelter for those affected by disaster.
OMG, that was the very first project we did in 1st year Architecture...This was the one the group I was in did:

Are you at UQ? Is that the one where you have to design and build it, then go live in it for a weekend on Stradbroke or something?
There is no silver bullet… but there is silver buckshot.
Never argue with an idiot. They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Offline Gazza

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Re: Article: Revival of city tunnel concept
« Reply #15 on: May 24, 2011, 12:25:51 AM »
^That was it, except its not at Stradbroke anymore because basically everyone in the cohort got drunk and made too much noise, so the campground wouldn't let us back, so they go somewhere else now, and presumably get less drunk.

Offline Golliwog

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Re: Article: Revival of city tunnel concept
« Reply #16 on: May 24, 2011, 11:25:45 AM »
^That was it, except its not at Stradbroke anymore because basically everyone in the cohort got drunk and made too much noise, so the campground wouldn't let us back, so they go somewhere else now, and presumably get less drunk.

Lol, yeah I saw the poster or somethign about it in Zelman Cowen a couple of years back. Its ok, the mining engineering trips take a breathalyser with them because you have to be 0.0 every morning to go on site and engineering students can't be trusted :P
There is no silver bullet… but there is silver buckshot.
Never argue with an idiot. They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Offline O_128

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Re: Re: Article: Revival of city tunnel concept
« Reply #17 on: May 24, 2011, 12:51:13 PM »
Well I did my final year project on increasing efficiency in the SEQ network

But I'm just an undergrad... guess that's not good enough =P

What degree do you do?, I would be interested in doing something like that.
"Where else but Queensland?"

 

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