Ipswich - Rosewood Line draft 2011 timetable feedback thread

[justanotheruser]

Regarding comparable stations to Oxley, if anyone is interested:
Lidcombe: 16.61 km from Central
North Strathfield:    13.38 km from Central

Both of these stations have an all-express all day service (well, Lidcombe is about to lose its all stoppers anyway).  The latter doesn't even have multiple routes through it, not counting Central Coast trains which don't serve it.  Sydney's Central is more analogous to Roma St.

I'll admit there are other lines which see less express service.
Kingsgrove: 12.62 km from Central sees some express and some all stops.  All express all day starts at Panania (22.55km from Central)
Rockdale: 10.4km from Central sees some express and some all stops.  All express all day at Sutherland (24.64km from Central)

North side doesn't get much express action post the ECRL and driver shortage.

the difference between sydney and here as you have described them is massive. Between strathfield an central most trains go through with either very few stops or no stops till redfern. There are two lines which stop all stations between strathfield and central providing 4tph in off peak. To then have all the trains from
penrith
blacktown
richmond
hornsby (via main line)
campbeltown
stopping there as well would be incredibly good for those living there but certainly not needed. There is no brisbane equivalent to sydney for this stretch of track.

In short it is not so much that people from north strathfield were considered to need a express but rather it was decided that people from earlier stations in the trip should have an express. What you said is like saying indro have been given an express service because they deserve it rather than the express actually being for ipswich residents.

[somebody]

Soon to be only the Homebush terminators which provide the all stopping service, rather than the "2 lines".

North Strathfield is the first station after the junction.  Burwood is 2 stations inbound from that, and receives an express service.  You could argue that station is more comparable, I guess.

[justanotheruser]

Soon to be only the Homebush terminators which provide the all stopping service, rather than the "2 lines".

North Strathfield is the first station after the junction.  Burwood is 2 stations inbound from that, and receives an express service.  You could argue that station is more comparable, I guess.

I would say the same argument still applies. Rather than having every train stopping they only have some stopping there. Also worthy of note is they are considered to be on many seperate train lines eg penrith to city and liverpool to city via regents park plus others while you are comparing it to a station on the same train line eg oxley which is on the ipswich line only. That is why the comparison is not fair. There is no equivalent I can think of to compare it to.

It is a case of in sydney the bankstown and liverpool lines drew the short straw and got the all stops. I was not aware of the changes you mentioned however those changes reflect the idea that trains from further out should be able to go express past stations closer in and that services which don't travel as far should not have the express service. 

[Cam]

Burwood is 2 stations inbound from that, and receives an express service.  You could argue that station is more comparable, I guess.

Westfield Burwood, with a similar number of stores to Indooroopilly Shopping Centre, is a couple of minutes walk from Burwood Railway Station. I would argue that Burwood station is more comparable to Indooroopilly station.

[somebody]

It is a case of in sydney the bankstown and liverpool lines drew the short straw and got the all stops. I was not aware of the changes you mentioned however those changes reflect the idea that trains from further out should be able to go express past stations closer in and that services which don't travel as far should not have the express service. 

Basically, all the Liverpool via Villawood trains will go via Bankstown.  Trains via Regents Park will terminate at Lidcombe.  The first part has been happening on weekends for some time.  Not sure who will draw the short straw to serve Flemington.

[justanotheruser]

Burwood is 2 stations inbound from that, and receives an express service.  You could argue that station is more comparable, I guess.

Westfield Burwood, with a similar number of stores to Indooroopilly Shopping Centre, is a couple of minutes walk from Burwood Railway Station. I would argue that Burwood station is more comparable to Indooroopilly station.

Indro still has one train line going through it not multiple train lines like burwood does which has at least four train lines before changes somebody mentioned. So in the end still not comparable for the sake of determining why stations close to city with short travel time should get an express.

[somebody]

Technically two with the Richlands branch.

I suppose Liverpool via Regents Park, Bankstown via Regents Park, a Western Line trains (2tph) and Northern Line trains (2 or 4tph) all do serve Burwood.  Although the first two will be consolidated into one line all to Homebush soon.

[ozbob]

Saturday 27 November    10am to 12pm    Darra State School Hall, Winslow Street, Darra

http://www.translink.com.au/travel-information/service-updates/queensland-rail-timetable-changes

Community information sessions

During November and December, Queensland Rail and TransLink staff will be available at community information sessions to discuss the draft timetables for the Ipswich, Rosewood, Caboolture and Sunshine Coast lines, and answer any questions you have.

See you there!   

[ozbob]

From the Queensland Times click here!

Concerns mount over train schedule

Concerns mount over train schedule

Zane Jackson | 26th November 2010

CONCERNS are growing that draft changes to the rail timetable between Ipswich and Rosewood will see school students waiting unsupervised at stations for longer.

WestMAC students will have to wait longer to catch trains home from school on the Rosewood line if proposed schedule changes go ahead.
David Nielsen

CONCERNS are growing that draft changes to the rail timetable between Ipswich and Rosewood will see school students waiting unsupervised at stations for longer.

The changes are not permanent yet and are up for consultation, but Ipswich City councillor David Pahlke said Rosewood would be badly affected by the changes.

Cr Pahlke said students in particular would be worse off, with West Moreton Anglican College students having their normal 3.20pm service to Rosewood replaced with a 3.43pm service.

Other students who previously caught the 3.13pm service from Ipswich station to Rosewood could have that service replaced with a 3.35pm service.

"This is a real kick in the guts for rail commuters along the Rosewood line," Cr Pahlke said.

Robert Dow, from commuter advocacy group Rail Back on Track, said he had received feedback from Rosewood residents concerned about the afternoon changes.

Mr Dow said TransLink should hold an information session on potential changes in Rosewood for residents who missed out on an earlier session in Ipswich.

"Rosewood is different in some respects because it doesn't have frequent services – that means putting the services at the right times is essential," he said.

WestMAC principal Geoff McLay said the school informed parents of the possible timetable changes yesterday.

"If there is a requirement for additional supervision that will be provided for our students," Mr McLay said.

"We're committed to working with the parent community as well as local and state politicians to achieve the best outcome."

Member for Ipswich West Wayne Wendt stressed the proposed changes were not yet permanent, saying he would organise a TransLink meeting in Rosewood in the coming weeks.

"We'll be having consultation and I'm positive we can have a positive outcome," Mr Wendt said.

A TransLink spokesperson said they encouraged anyone with concerns to raise it with them so they could investigate it as part of the review process.

"Queensland Rail has approached local schools to provide detailed information about the draft timetable and schools have also been offered briefing sessions on the draft changes," they said.

To see the draft timetable for Ipswich to Rosewood trains, visit www.translink.com.au.

[ozbob]

Attended the session today at Darra.  As could be expected not a huge roll up, particularly with the timetable for Darra  

Was an excellent opportunity to discuss at length with the numerous QR personnel in attendance.  One TransLink representative with whom I discussed some bus issues, mainly feeder routes and the like.  I also highlighted the lack of weather protection for Darra bus stop B as well.

Issues raised included Toowong, timings for Rosewood.   The timetable is a major change and I was able to confirm that the structure is very deliberate to allow easy additions as loadings increase and trains become available and to allow for maximum capacity through the CBD.

They are taking note of feedback and we can expect some tweaks.  Looking forward to Nambour next weekend.

The Member for Mount Ommaney Mrs Attwood attended, as did the President of Darra Community Group Cathy Easte.  Some regular commuters and some RAIL BoT members spotted also 

Good effort by all!









Photographs R Dow 27th November 2010

[somebody]

Attended the session today at Darra.  As could be expected not a huge roll up, particularly with the timetable for Darra  

Issues raised included Toowong, timings for Rosewood.   The timetable is a major change and I was able to confirm that the structure is very deliberate to allow easy additions as loadings increase and trains become available and to allow for maximum capacity through the CBD.

Doh!  I was still in bed.  So, that is what is with that 12 minute/6 minute gap toggling rather than a consistent 9 minute gap.  Honestly, this is something that they need to stop doing.  Does anyone else in the world write timetables in this way?  Very mediocre.

Did they say anything about Toowong, or the lack of Rosewood through services?

[ozbob]

Rosewood is still being looked at.  Toowong, we pointed out that bus from Toowong - UQ is probably a better option than Indooroopilly.  They have looked at data and seem to think that bypassing Toowong with the express pattern is justifiable on time savings and loading patterns.  Most are from east of Darra.  Toowong is still being looked at, but not a lot of public feedback on this though which surprised me a little.

[somebody]

Perhaps a lot of the students east of Darra use the Ipswich campus.

[mufreight]

Rosewood is still being looked at.  Toowong, we pointed out that bus from Toowong - UQ is probably a better option than Indooroopilly.  They have looked at data and seem to think that bypassing Toowong with the express pattern is justifiable on time savings and loading patterns.  Most are from east of Darra.  Toowong is still being looked at, but not a lot of public feedback on this though which surprised me a little.

One can assume from the response that they have no intention of any real change that is in the interests of the commuters and as has been proven to be the case with figures for the bus loadings in Ipswich they have again fudged the figures to justify their proposals, with the running times as set out in the draft proposed timetable there is sufficent time to include the stop at Toowoong without change to the rest of the timetable and the cost argument is without basis and is unsustainable as by increasing the convenience of the services for commuters will attract higher level of patronage and greater revenue, or is there in fact a concern by the beancounters that if they improve the levels of service and attract a higher level of usage that the increased patronage would then in turn require further services which they are unwilling to provide.

[BrizCommuter]

So, that is what is with that 12 minute/6 minute gap toggling rather than a consistent 9 minute gap. 

That would seem logical, but there may be issues with infrastructure between Darra and Corinda which prevent a consistent 9 minute gap.

[mufreight]

So, that is what is with that 12 minute/6 minute gap toggling rather than a consistent 9 minute gap.  

That would seem logical, but there may be issues with infrastructure between Darra and Corinda which prevent a consistent 9 minute gap.

There are infrastructure shortcomings, the obvious failures with the infrastructure between Darra and Corinda have been the failure to provide the fourth platform at Oxley, the failure to wire the fourth track from Corinda to Panhard Street and no provision for access from the Up Suburban line (platform 2) at Corinda to the presently unwired fourth track would then have been avaliable for the operation of both commuter and freight services as an Up Suburban line.  Couple this with the done on the cheap junction arangements at Bulock Head Creek (Darra West) which are effectively a single track junction which creates a number of train path conflicts for freight services moving from the Down Main to the Up Suburban (fourth track, nominaly the freight line).
When there is eventually either a triplication or quadruplation track amplification west towards Wacol the existing junction arrangements will require a complete reconfiguration, more track closures and expense that could well have been avoided by a little foresight rather than the beancounter approach that has been evident with all commuter based rail projects under the oversight of the current Government.

[justanotheruser]

Rosewood is still being looked at.  Toowong, we pointed out that bus from Toowong - UQ is probably a better option than Indooroopilly.  They have looked at data and seem to think that bypassing Toowong with the express pattern is justifiable on time savings and loading patterns.  Most are from east of Darra.  Toowong is still being looked at, but not a lot of public feedback on this though which surprised me a little.

One can assume from the response that they have no intention of any real change that is in the interests of the commuters and as has been proven to be the case with figures for the bus loadings in Ipswich they have again fudged the figures to justify their proposals, with the running times as set out in the draft proposed timetable there is sufficent time to include the stop at Toowoong without change to the rest of the timetable and the cost argument is without basis and is unsustainable as by increasing the convenience of the services for commuters will attract higher level of patronage and greater revenue, or is there in fact a concern by the beancounters that if they improve the levels of service and attract a higher level of usage that the increased patronage would then in turn require further services which they are unwilling to provide.

Well that is the way governments usually do things. They make a decision and go through the charade of community consultation so they can say with a straight face to the media and in parliament that they did consult.

[skippy]

Doh!  I was still in bed.  So, that is what is with that 12 minute/6 minute gap toggling rather than a consistent 9 minute gap.  Honestly, this is something that they need to stop doing.  Does anyone else in the world write timetables in this way?  Very mediocre.

The Citytrain timetables have generally evolved by simply adding more trains and not re-writing the whole timetable. I suspect the 12 / 6 minute gap is a future-proofing measure. The SEQ population has been growing rapidly for more than 20 years and will continue to do so. Consequently there will be a need for additional peak services in the next 2 or 3 years. The 12 minute gap will be filled by adding an additional service, delaying the need for a whole timetable revision (including connecting buses) until the 6 minute services are overloaded.

[#Metro]

The Citytrain timetables have generally evolved by simply adding more trains and not re-writing the whole timetable. I suspect the 12 / 6 minute gap is a future-proofing measure. The SEQ population has been growing rapidly for more than 20 years and will continue to do so. Consequently there will be a need for additional peak services in the next 2 or 3 years. The 12 minute gap will be filled by adding an additional service, delaying the need for a whole timetable revision (including connecting buses) until the 6 minute services are overloaded.

I suspect this too. If one extra regular service were added, the pattern would be 6 minutes-6-minutes-6-minutes, which IS and even frequency. Will we see buses every 6 minutes though feeding rail?

[somebody]

is there in fact a concern by the beancounters that if they improve the levels of service and attract a higher level of usage that the increased patronage would then in turn require further services which they are unwilling to provide.

You aren't the only person to have wondered this!

That would seem logical, but there may be issues with infrastructure between Darra and Corinda which prevent a consistent 9 minute gap.

I would be fairly sure that there aren't.

When there is eventually either a triplication or quadruplation track amplification west towards Wacol the existing junction arrangements will require a complete reconfiguration, more track closures and expense that could well have been avoided by a little foresight rather than the beancounter approach that has been evident with all commuter based rail projects under the oversight of the current Government.

I don't follow what you are saying here.  That there should have been another flyover?

Well that is the way governments usually do things. They make a decision and go through the charade of community consultation so they can say with a straight face to the media and in parliament that they did consult.

WTF?  That is the QLD government does things.  Other governments do not do things in this way.

The Citytrain timetables have generally evolved by simply adding more trains and not re-writing the whole timetable. I suspect the 12 / 6 minute gap is a future-proofing measure.

I re-iterate: This approach needs to change.

[Golliwog]

I don't think it needs to change greatly. I think its smart planning in this case as they know exactly where new services can go, and once those are filled then they would once again look at a complete re-write, but a re-write is expensive and time consuming so the less that need to be done the better.

[somebody]

QR should not have as much difficulty with it as they seem to.

Some of the problem, of course, is the temerity of pax to whinge about their service coming at a different time.

[ozbob]

People generally don't like change.  They gear their lives to the 7.13am or whatever.  The reality is of course to recast a timetable many times will change.  I gained the impression yesterday that personnel involved with the preparation of the new timetables although sensitive of the impacts of time changes consider the actuality is that some changes are necessary and will articulate that view. 


I really would like to see some details of the bus plans etc.  This is very important IMHO.  There is nothing at the moment.

[ozbob]

Had a long discussion at the timetable information session concerning the car parking dynamics Richlands, Darra  and Oxley.

I walked up Progress Road at Richlands this morning (Wacol side).  There is no doubt that some of the Darra parkers will swing off the Ipswich Highway at Wacol and drive up Progress Road to Richlands (once they wake up to what is going on ... ).  I don't think there is going to be any change at Oxley, will remain a basket case despite no express services (different park and ride origin than Darra in the main). Darra may ease slightly, but this is also contingent on how serious feeder buses are done.  Darra has room in the adjacent streets which is not the case at Oxley.  A shift worker or late starter might be better off going to Darra than Oxley.

Richlands car park  is going to fill quickly I think which is why proper feeder buses need to happening from day one of rail from Richlands.  There are many many car dependent households out there from Inala to Springfield, and new housing going in a fast pace at Richlands already (did you know the fools are closing Richlands State Primary School ... beggars belief ...)  .. without even considering the folks coming up the highways.

The TOD like townhouse development opposite Darra railway station (south side, where the petrol station was) is now occupied with residents.  Very handy to the station, plus nice views of the constant passing parade of trains! 

[somebody]

People generally don't like change. 

I've noticed how deviously they have introduced the changes to the western bus services with the Go Between Bridge and INB construction.  While I can obviously see the necessity to permanently close the Hale St (outbound) stop, I do not see why the closure of the Boomerang St (inbound) stop could not have been temporary, if it needed to close at all.  I can only conclude that they didn't think about the possibility of routing via Go Between and a stop on the slip lane.

I can also see that no one would complain about moving the 444 away from the other western expresses on the INB opening because that was far better than the via Grey St outbound routing.

[justanotheruser]

Well that is the way governments usually do things. They make a decision and go through the charade of community consultation so they can say with a straight face to the media and in parliament that they did consult.

WTF?  That is the QLD government does things.  Other governments do not do things in this way.

you're right there have been plenty of governments who haven't bothered with the charade of community consultation. They just went ahead and made a decision and stuck to it no matter how unpopular. They even won further terms of government!

[justanotheruser]

The Citytrain timetables have generally evolved by simply adding more trains and not re-writing the whole timetable. I suspect the 12 / 6 minute gap is a future-proofing measure. The SEQ population has been growing rapidly for more than 20 years and will continue to do so. Consequently there will be a need for additional peak services in the next 2 or 3 years. The 12 minute gap will be filled by adding an additional service, delaying the need for a whole timetable revision (including connecting buses) until the 6 minute services are overloaded.

I suspect this too. If one extra regular service were added, the pattern would be 6 minutes-6-minutes-6-minutes, which IS and even frequency. Will we see buses every 6 minutes though feeding rail?

will we need buses every six minutes though? I am all for having buses to get people to the train instead of using their cars

[justanotheruser]

People generally don't like change. 

I've noticed how deviously they have introduced the changes to the western bus services with the Go Between Bridge and INB construction.  While I can obviously see the necessity to permanently close the Hale St (outbound) stop, I do not see why the closure of the Boomerang St (inbound) stop could not have been temporary, if it needed to close at all.  I can only conclude that they didn't think about the possibility of routing via Go Between and a stop on the slip lane.

I can also see that no one would complain about moving the 444 away from the other western expresses on the INB opening because that was far better than the via Grey St outbound routing.

Part of the study conducted a couple of years ago to improve BCC bus services concluded that they should get rid of some stops. Sometimes such as is the case on milton rd they removed the stop outside BP servo. This was because the bus was geting stuck in traffic waiting to turn into hale st. Now once the bus reaches the stop at the brewery it can change lanes and fly past the line up of cars. So essentially a time saver. Could this be what they have done on coro drive?

[somebody]

you're right there have been plenty of governments who haven't bothered with the charade of community consultation. They just went ahead and made a decision and stuck to it no matter how unpopular. They even won further terms of government!

Now, now.  I started a thread some time ago (early this year I think) about the CityRail consultation process for the new Illawarra line timetable.  Many political parties go to elections with platforms which include the bulk of what they will do.  What is more annoying to me is when they go to the polls with a platform, but then water it down when it comes time to implement it.  KRudd's federalisation of health, and Howard's republic convention are examples of what I am thinking of.

Part of the study conducted a couple of years ago to improve BCC bus services concluded that they should get rid of some stops. Sometimes such as is the case on milton rd they removed the stop outside BP servo. This was because the bus was geting stuck in traffic waiting to turn into hale st. Now once the bus reaches the stop at the brewery it can change lanes and fly past the line up of cars. So essentially a time saver. Could this be what they have done on coro drive?

Are you sure you are referring to the last stop on Milton Rd I/B which isn't served in peak?  That's the only thing I can see which makes sense from what you are saying.

Nothing like this is the reason for what has happened on Coro.  The existing O/B stop had to go with the flyover, and that meant to have an I/B stop meant that it wouldn't have a counter part O/B stop, even that was the old situation for 425/430/435/444/450/453/454/460, although not for the 411/412/415/416/417/433/445.  I'm sure that they didn't want this unbalanced stop situation so they closed the inbound stop, without thinking about the possibility of a stop on the slip lane and an O/B routing via the Go Between Bridge.

[#Metro]

will we need buses every six minutes though? I am all for having buses to get people to the train instead of using their cars

To Darra and Richlands, yes.

To me, a connecting bus is just an extension of the railway rapid transit on the street.
A bus every 6 minutes to one rail station at peak hour allows ~ 650 people to access the rail station.
That is an effective 100% capacity increase on the carpark at Richlands station.

Clearly if car parks are full at peak hour, then the case for a Bus-Rapid Transit feeder bus to rail stations, at least during peak hour, can be made. Even off peak, feeding rail stations is worthwhile. The trick is to make the connection easy and quick, and the feeder route long enough and frequent enough to collect enough passengers.

Try it. The results might be surprising.

[somebody]

I would say that every 6 minutes, for every route, would be well over the top.

[#Metro]

I would say that every 6 minutes, for every route, would be well over the top.

Ahh. This is the thing. We are stuck in the mindset that "it can't be done" or "why would we do that". Maybe you have a point about "every route" but on reflection I don't recall specifying that it had to be every route. But maybe there is merit in that?

I always say that I am surprised that BUZ ever made it. Imagine knocking on the BCC's door telling them that you would like a few
million dollars to run buses, 6am-11 pm, all day every day of the week including OFF peak and on Sundays, every 15 minutes regardless of current demand.  , and at a time when bus patronage was at a low something like 40 million or so... I think that kind of a proposal would be laughed out of the room.

But it did go ahead, against all odds. And it has been a very unexpected and surprising success.
I suspect that many BUZ routes are breaking even or even making surpluses. Perhaps RailBOT could ask BT to confirm this.

There a lesson here. We should not be fatalistic or defeatist. Trialling things is something that can be done.

And to confirm, YES there are places in the world where they do have high frequency buses feeding rail stations.
Here is an example: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viva_Blue

Service Frequency As of September 8, 2009:

   * Newmarket Terminal to Bernard: every 8.5 minutes on peak periods
   * Bernard to Finch Station: every 4 minutes on peak periods

At rush hour from Richmond Hill Centre to Finch Station, Viva Blue interlines with Viva Pink, providing even higher frequencies

Service frequency on off-peak periods is every 15 minutes or less on all Viva corridors. These results will vary depending on the traffic volume, weather, and the period of the day.

Time to think outside the box...

[#Metro]

Extract from the timetable for this bus for tomorrow (Monday):
http://tripplanner.yrt.ca/

This station is approximately 15 km from the City Centre too-- comparable straight-line distance in Brisbane would be Wacol, Sunnybank Hills, Wynnum or Deagon.

Blue to Finch Station   7:00a
Blue to Finch Station   7:04a
Blue to Finch Station   7:08a
Blue to Finch Station   7:12a
Blue to Finch Station   7:19a
Blue to Finch Station   7:23a
Blue to Finch Station   7:27a
Blue to Finch Station   7:34a
Blue to Finch Station   7:38a
Blue to Finch Station   7:42a
Blue to Finch Station   7:49a
Blue to Finch Station   7:53a
Blue to Finch Station   7:57a

Blue to Finch Station   8:04a
Blue to Finch Station   8:08a
Blue to Finch Station   8:12a
Blue to Finch Station   8:19a
Blue to Finch Station   8:23a
Blue to Finch Station   8:27a
Blue to Finch Station   8:34a
Blue to Finch Station   8:38a
Blue to Finch Station   8:42a
Blue to Finch Station   8:49a
Blue to Finch Station   8:53a
Blue to Finch Station   8:57a

[somebody]

I wanted to clarify what you meant with the 6 minute frequency.

Re: BUZ, it took a pro bus political stance to make that happen.

[ozbob]

Sent to all outlets:

29 November 2010

Greetings,

On Saturday, the 27th November 2010 I attended the Community information session on the draft rail timetables held 10am to 12pm in the Darra State School Hall, Winslow Street, Darra.

It is was an excellent opportunity to have some in depth discussions with Queensland Rail timetable staff on the new rail timetables for 2011. Queensland Rail staff were knowledgeable, willing to listen and took the time to explain the rationale for the structures of the new timetables.

I also had the opportunity to discuss with a TransLink staff member particular concerns and issues for bus, particularly to take advantage of the increased frequency and capacity on rail between Darra and the CBD.

Thanks to Queensland Rail and TransLink for putting on these sessions.

We believe it is important from the public transport users perspective that the rationale for change be carefully explained.

Well done!

Best wishes
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org

[Gazza]

Visual representation of the new timetable versus old at Corinda:
http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/3653/corinda2.jpg

Looking at it that way, the only thing I'd change is to have an 8:04 and an 8:16 so there is a constant 6 min headway rather the jump between 6-12-6 at the moment.
If they published it with a clean headway of 6 minutes from 7:22 to 8:34 then the new timetable would be such an easy sell.

But man, what a mess the old timetables was! 3 trains in 4 minutes at 8:04....Plus two other instances of headways under 3 minutes for the sake of it at other times.

They still need to put Toowong in to the expresses though.

[justanotheruser]

you're right there have been plenty of governments who haven't bothered with the charade of community consultation. They just went ahead and made a decision and stuck to it no matter how unpopular. They even won further terms of government!

Now, now.  I started a thread some time ago (early this year I think) about the CityRail consultation process for the new Illawarra line timetable.  Many political parties go to elections with platforms which include the bulk of what they will do.  What is more annoying to me is when they go to the polls with a platform, but then water it down when it comes time to implement it.  KRudd's federalisation of health, and Howard's republic convention are examples of what I am thinking of.

Part of the study conducted a couple of years ago to improve BCC bus services concluded that they should get rid of some stops. Sometimes such as is the case on milton rd they removed the stop outside BP servo. This was because the bus was geting stuck in traffic waiting to turn into hale st. Now once the bus reaches the stop at the brewery it can change lanes and fly past the line up of cars. So essentially a time saver. Could this be what they have done on coro drive?

Are you sure you are referring to the last stop on Milton Rd I/B which isn't served in peak?  That's the only thing I can see which makes sense from what you are saying.

Nothing like this is the reason for what has happened on Coro.  The existing O/B stop had to go with the flyover, and that meant to have an I/B stop meant that it wouldn't have a counter part O/B stop, even that was the old situation for 425/430/435/444/450/453/454/460, although not for the 411/412/415/416/417/433/445.  I'm sure that they didn't want this unbalanced stop situation so they closed the inbound stop, without thinking about the possibility of a stop on the slip lane and an O/B routing via the Go Between Bridge.

No I am not talking about the last stop IB milton rd which is not serviced in peak. I am talking about further out outside the BP service station which is next door to Mcdonalds.  This stop was removed as it could take up to 10 minutes to get from the brewery which was called Milton Rail stop to what was called Stop 5 milton rd far side Cribb st outside BP. This was due to the line up of cars waiting to get onto hale st and the ICB.  If your still unsure a quick look in the street directory should show it.  In any case as you said that doesn't apply to Coro drive.

[somebody]

Ok, now I follow.

[mufreight]

Seems like the popular revolt in the western area over public transport has taken hold, methinks that the local LABOR politicians should perhaps take heed of the outcome of the Victorian election and the part fed up commuters paid in their defeat there over public transport issues, still our current Transport Minister could always go back to the University of Hard Knocks for some life education lessons after the election and still get her Parliamentary Pension.    the not so good ship "Bounty" is sinking, (late news) has sunk.

[ozbob]

Extra 'timetable information' session now for Rosewood ...

Wednesday 15 December    5pm to 7pm    Rosewood RSL, 1 Mill Street, Rosewood

http://www.translink.com.au/travel-information/service-updates/queensland-rail-timetable-changes