2011 Timetable changes

[STB]

Just a quick post about my thoughts of what I had expected re: off peak line pairings, in relation to this (although I haven't gone into a detailed look yet if it could be done).

Caboolture - Ipswich (Every 30mins)
Richlands/Springfield - Petrie (Every 30mins)
Combined frequency of every 15mins between Darra and Petrie

Cleveland - Shorncliffe (Every 30mins)
Manly - Doomben (Every 30mins)
Combined frequency of every 15mins between Manly and Buranda

Beenleigh - Ferny Grove (Every 30mins)
Kuraby - Mitchelton (Every 30mins)
Combined frequency of every 15mins between Kuraby and Mitchelton

Gold Coast - Airport (Every 30mins)

Sunshine Coast - Roma Street (At least every 2hrs).

[Cam]

It is good to see that Ipswich express services are scheduled to take 20 minutes between Darra & Central in both directions. However, 4 minutes of fat has been added to these services between Darra & Ipswich.  In fact 4 minutes of fat has been added to off peak services as well. Increasing the travel time between Ipswich & Central by 4 minutes to 58 minutes off peak whilst significantly increasing costs over the next few years is not encouraging people out of their cars.

The current 4.47pm from Darra arrives Ipswich at 5.13pm i.e. 26 minute trip time. The draft timetable has all services that I can see scheduled to take 30 minutes in peak & off peak in both directions between Darra & Ipswich.  

EDIT: Spelling

[Emmie]

If the Shorncliffe trains now terminate at Roma St, that will make my commute longer, not shorter, with no through trains to Toowong.

On the other hand, linking Shorncliffe to the Cleveland line would be brilliant, allowing a transfer at Park/Boggo Rd.

[STB]

If the Shorncliffe trains now terminate at Roma St, that will make my commute longer, not shorter, with no through trains to Toowong.

On the other hand, linking Shorncliffe to the Cleveland line would be brilliant, allowing a transfer at Park/Boggo Rd.

That was part of my thinking about the line pairings, about maintaining as much like to like as possible, in this case maintaining access for Shorncliffe passengers to UQ services.

[STB]

Hmm, what's caught my eye regarding peak (other than the drop in frequency at some stations) is the satuation of trains leaving Darra in morning peak hour.  This might actually attract an incredible amount of passengers to Darra who would've otherwise used Oxley, Corinda or Richlands.  Not sure what the parking is like at Darra, but with that sort of frequency I would expect quite a bit of pressure from the park n riders.

[Derwan]

Richlands
    * Trains will depart Richlands station every 12 minutes between 7am and 8am.
    * Trains will depart Central for Richlands every 12 minutes between 4.30pm and 5.30pm.

I certainly hope that these aren't the only periods during which additional services are scheduled - and that they're just quoting the most frequent periods.

[somebody]

A lot to be disappointed about here.  More on that later.

Eventually you will have Ipswich all stations Redbank, express to town with Darra, Indooroo only I predict. Redbank will be all stations to Darra and then express. 

That wouldn't work for my way of thinking.  Surely the logical would be to have the Redbank starters cover the all stopping service?  I still see a need for a greater and a lesser express from Ipswich.

Most annoying aspect is that the hourly Sunday am frequency is to remain.  And still an earlier finish on Sunday.

I'll post more later.

[ozbob]

A lot to be pleased about as well.  It is a start, constantly moaning gets nowhere.

Yes, we all want 15 minutes everywhere.  It simply is not going to happen overnight.  Accept the gains and look towards further improvements.

[mufreight]

Looking at the proposed changes the service frequency off peak appears to be being degraded for passengers to intermediate stations between Darra and the CBD as the express services bypass Oxley-Corinda-Sherwood-Graceville-Chelmer-Taringa-Toowong and Auchenflower which from the timetabling drop back to a 30 minute frequency as against the current 15 minute frequency and what is the overlap time for passengers to or from those stations for the "connecting?" services for instance at Darra for the continuation of their journey such as from Booval to Auchenflower or return.
If the timetable is as it appears to be it is a diminished level of service that will deter commuters from using rail not  encourage the uptake.

[STB]

FYI, I'm currently doing a rather detailed analysis of the draft timetable in comparsion with the current timetable.  Using key stations along the line, so far I've done Ipswich Station with the following notes:

Ipswich station (to City)
3 extra services departing Ipswich between first service and 9am.
Loss of 2 services departing Ipswich between first service and 9am. (like for like service could not be determined)
1 extra service departing as last inbound service
Minimum wait time: Current timetable 4mins, draft timetable 6mins
Average wait (peak): Current timetable 14mins, draft timetable (13mins)
Average wait (off peak): Current timetable 30mins, draft timetable (30mins)

Currently working on Darra station, will also do Indooroopilly.  Then will do the outbound Ipswich services and then Caboolture and Sunshine Coast.

More to come...

[paulg]

New timetable looks generally good to me. Still a bit disappointed that the best time for Ipswich-Central is 50 minutes and Caboolture-Central is 44 minutes, should be able to do better than that. I would like to see some services from Ipswich with limited stops (or no stops) to Darra. One of the Sunshine Coast services (leaving Nambour at 6:57am on weekdays) appears to have a large dwell time in the city - 8 mins from Fortitude Valley to Central??!

[Cam]

Still a bit disappointed that the best time for Ipswich-Central is 50 minutes

It would have only been 46 minutes but there is 4 minutes of fat added between Ipswich & Darra.

[Cam]

Looking at the proposed changes the service frequency off peak appears to be being degraded for passengers to intermediate stations between Darra and the CBD as the express services bypass Oxley-Corinda-Sherwood-Graceville-Chelmer-Taringa-Toowong and Auchenflower which from the timetabling drop back to a 30 minute frequency as against the current 15 minute frequency

No express services are timetabled outside of peak periods. Oxley gets a 15 minute off peak service compared to the current 30 minute service. Stations between Corinda & Milton gain a 15 minute service in the evenings & on weekends.

[ozbob]

Outside peak there are no express services on the Ipswich line.  Frequency off peak between Darra and CBD is markedly improved, 7 days a week.

Presently Corinda inbound does have 15 minutes only during the weekday off peak hours, that is between morning and pm peak.

All stations now from Darra to CBD will now have 15 minutes off peak essentially around the clock.

Check out the timetables here

[STB]

Darra station results...

Darra to City (inbound)
8 extra services departing Ipswich between first service and 9am.
All like for like services were able to be determined
25 extra off peak services
Minimum wait time: Current timetable 4mins, draft timetable 1min
Average wait (peak): Current timetable 10mins, draft timetable 7mins
Average wait (off peak): Current timetable 30mins, draft timetable 15mins

[O_128]

Why so much Fat? Does it really take 5 min from wacol to darra? The lack of 15 min to Ipswich is a huge dissapointment, let's hope the consultations have the same result

[Cam]

I would like to see some services from Ipswich with limited stops (or no stops) to Darra.

So would I. Most of those who who travel from Ipswich/Rosewood would too. I guess that when the stabling at Redbank is finished, services to/from Redbank will eventually be introduced which will allow some Ipswich & Rosewood services to skip Goodna, Gailes & Wacol.

[Cam]

Why so much Fat? Does it really take 5 min from wacol to darra?

An extra minute has been added inbound between Wacol & Darra even though the track has been shortened & the speed limit has been increased between Darra station & the Centenary Highway. 

[ozbob]

What is worthwhile is the rationalisation of the express patterns.  A die is cast for the future improvements.

You can give feedback as desired at the consultations.  There is clearly a longer term plan we are not privy too.  Hence the 'isolation' of the Shorncliffe line and Richlands.  I am sure there are longer term plans for further pairings and improvements.  This is just a beginning and preparation for major transitions leading up to CRR and other improvements, eg. final duplication to Ferny Grove, MBRL and Springfield.  

This is just an initial incremental step is the way I see it.

Some winners, some losers but overall gains.  The improvements on the Darra - CBD section will be interesting to observe in terms of patronage.  I think we should put our collective heads together on what bus improvements could be made to feed Indooroopilly and Darra, peak and outside peak to capitalise on the frequency.

Edit:

Bus improvement thread --> http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=4869.0

[Derwan]

Considering the Shorncliffe Line will no longer be tied to the Ipswich Line, you'd think they could do a minor adjustment of times without adding services:

• Shuffle some AM services a few minutes earlier to avoid one of the additional services arriving at Central at 9:01am, which is kind of pointless.
• Eliminate the 38-minute gap during peak in the afternoon.

I realise the Shorncliffe Line will be included in the update for the 2nd half of 2011, but these minor timetable changes could be made without adding services or affecting other lines.

I'm planning to go to the information session at Sandgate to suggest this.

[Cam]

I think we should put our collective heads together on what bus improvements could be made to feed Indooroopilly and Darra, peak and outside peak to capitalise on the frequency.

A frequent direct bus service between Indooroopilly & UQ is required during peak periods otherwise there will be many calling for the express services to stop at Toowong.

[somebody]

The constant addition of fat to timetables in Australia (or at least Sydney & Brisbane, I'm not that familiar with Mel/Adl/Per) is always a major disappointment.  Just as disappointing is that the users of the service seem to like it.

Looking at the proposed changes the service frequency off peak appears to be being degraded for passengers to intermediate stations between Darra and the CBD as the express services bypass Oxley-Corinda-Sherwood-Graceville-Chelmer-Taringa-Toowong and Auchenflower which from the timetabling drop back to a 30 minute frequency as against the current 15 minute frequency

How do you figure?  Only Sunday am as far as I can see.

Crew shortages just go to show that they should have had evening and weekend trains to Corinda.  I'm sure they weren't going to pay crews to sit on their bums, so it is little wonder that they had trouble retaining crews.

Why has it taken this long to get this more or less minimum change timetable?

-
(a) Sunday timetable comments above

(b) 15 minutes to run Milton-Darra (13.7km) at an average speed of just under 55km/h with one stop is mediocre at best.  5 minutes Milton-Central is also a bit poor.

(c) I'm also disappointed that they are keeping Rosewood as a shuttle rather than making it a through service operation, even if it was with a dwell at Ipswich it would be better to continue through.  Also, I believe there is a reduction in the number of through services to Rosewood, especially in the AM peak.

(d) Really don't know what they are thinking with providing no single seat connection between Wacol-Ipswich & Toowong in peak.  That just encourages people to jam on to the 428 bus which is less efficient than the 402/412 to Toowong.

(e) I wanted an 8 minute frequency counter peak at Milton & Toowong.  Shouldn't have been hard.

(f) I still want an express service from/to Oxley

(g) Still want a greater and lesser express from Ipswich

(h) Major disappointment with the reluctance to remove the weekend Shorncliffe trains from South Brisbane and South Bank.  Presumably that is what is behind the alleged detachment of the Shorncliffe trains.  IPS-CAB + RCH-SHC seems a good line pairing as far as I can see.  Kippa-Ring is a long way off, if it comes.

(i) Major disappointment with the removal of the express operation of the Caboolture line between Northgate and Bowen Hills.  Seems that the Caboolture line is getting shafted here.  And it will be hard to reverse this later.

[Golliwog]

I think we should put our collective heads together on what bus improvements could be made to feed Indooroopilly and Darra, peak and outside peak to capitalise on the frequency.

A frequent direct bus service between Indooroopilly & UQ is required during peak periods otherwise there will be many calling for the express services to stop at Toowong.

Given how short the 412 is, perhaps they could extend it to cover one of the 432/428/427 routes between Indro+beyond to UQ?

Does anyone know what is happening to the Tennyson services? I know they won't be going to Corinda anymore, but are they just going to now terminate them at Yeerongpilly?


Also, STB I greatly dislikes you pairing idea for the FG line. The FG line does not need a shorter set of services terminating at Mitchelton. IMO it's a waste of space to turn back services there when they could run all the way to FG and make good use of the soon (...ish) to be 3 platforms at FG. Even if it was 4tph to FG and back with 2tph going to Kuraby and 2tph to Beenleigh that would be better.

[Arnz]

My comments relate mostly to the Sunshine Coast proposed 2011 timetable.

Not a bad timetable, the "change train at Caboolture" for some weekend services has ALL BEEN ELIMINATED, which is a good thing.  I can understand some of the running pattern changes to Nambour trains during peak to spread out the loads, though I can't see why they would change off-peak/weekend running patterns.

There is a 42 minute gap between 5:04pm Nambour service and the 5:46pm Gympie North service.  I would think a Landsborough terminator inbetween would be useful (running express Bowen Hills to Petrie, stopping Northgate, then all Petrie to Landsborough).

I don't mind the service patterns changing, although I do object to a few stopping alterations.  For example, in the morning where the train stops all stations between Northgate and Roma Street.  People getting on after Northgate is very likely to get onto a already full train, not to mention there are already plenty of options at the inner suburb stations without adding ex-Nambour trains into the mix.

I would suggest the slight alterations to the Peak-hr to Nambour stopping patterns.
1. INBOUND Peak ex Nambour - (express Petrie to Bowen Hills, stopping Northgate)
- Inner City passengers won't jump on a already crowded train.
2. OUTBOUND Peak to Nambour (express Northgate to Caboolture, stopping Petrie)
- Longer distance passengers won't have to stand for long, yet provides inner city passengers with the extra services.

As for weekend services, I would've kept the current Caboolture to Bowen Hills stopping Petrie & Northgate stopping pattern.  Also, I do hope they address the toilet issue.  Toilet-equipped trains should be a mandatory requirement on ALL Nambour/Gympie trains where possible.

[Derwan]

There's still that 2-hour gap after 7:34pm for the Sunny Coast.

[STB]

Corinda station results... Comparing current to draft timetables

Corinda to City (inbound)
1 extra service departing Corinda between first service and 9am.
5 less services departing Corinda
10 extra off peak services
Minimum wait time: Current timetable 1mins, draft timetable 6mins - an increased minimum wait time of 5mins
Average wait (peak): Current timetable 8mins, draft timetable 11mins - an increased average wait time of 3mins
Average wait (off peak): Current timetable 19mins, draft timetable 15mins

[somebody]

Given how short the 412 is, perhaps they could extend it to cover one of the 432/428/427 routes between Indro+beyond to UQ?

No.  The 412 shouldn't be extended, unless it is to cover the 411's service.  And they shouldn't encourage people to use a bus from UQ-Indro to get on a train.

Does anyone know what is happening to the Tennyson services? I know they won't be going to Corinda anymore, but are they just going to now terminate them at Yeerongpilly?

Probably they will extend to Kuraby.  I can't see Yeerongpilly terminators, that would make no sense at all.  The whole reason for abolishing these trains would be to free up paths for the south side lines.

Also, STB I greatly dislikes you pairing idea for the FG line. The FG line does not need a shorter set of services terminating at Mitchelton. IMO it's a waste of space to turn back services there when they could run all the way to FG and make good use of the soon (...ish) to be 3 platforms at FG. Even if it was 4tph to FG and back with 2tph going to Kuraby and 2tph to Beenleigh that would be better.

I would agree with this, in the off peak, which is what was being discussed.  FG is the busiest station outside of the core, so it must be served, I say.  I say that there has always been a case for peak patterns of 4tph Mitchelton and 4tph FG express, but that's probably not what they will do.  Otherwise they wouldn't need the duplication to FG.  Not sure why there is a need for 3 platforms at FG either.

I don't mind the service patterns changing, although I do object to a few stopping alterations.  For example, in the morning where the train stops all stations between Northgate and Roma Street.  

Haven't looked at it yet, but definitely support you here.  But there is a need for Eagle Junction to be added to the stopping patterns of the Sunshine Coast.  Stopping at Northgate and not Eagle Junction may have made sense in 1997 when the timetable was written, but doesn't make sense now that the Airport line is there.

STB, yes Corinda may be a loser here, but I can live with that.

[ozbob]

From ABC 612 Brisbane Breakfast click here!

Train timetables to be completely re-written

Train timetables to be completely re-written

17 November 2010 , 9:05 AM by Spencer Howson

The new Richlands rail line opens in January and of course that's given Translink the opportunity to revamp the timetable on the Ipswich line.

I understand that trains from Ipswich hop from Darra to Indooroopilly to Milton and then Roma Street, with trains from Richlands providing an all-stations service.

I'm also led to believe there will be a train every 15 minutes between Darra and the CBD and that a combined Seniors Card/Go Card is to be revealed tomorrow.

To be told by a little birdie is one thing. Let's find out from the horse's mouth. Sally Stannard is Translink's Director of Strategy of Planning:

[Arnz]

the "change train at Caboolture" for some weekend services has ALL BEEN ELIMINATED,

Looking at the timetable again, I take that back.  Appears there are still some weekend short-shuttles, just the weeekend expresses and weekend shuttle services appears to be shuffled around (eg the 8pm express becomes a 7pm shuttle and the 9pm shuttle becoming a 9pm express.)

[somebody]

Looks like only 2 minutes have been taken off most of the Caboolture-Beerburrum times too.  Actually, the 9 minute trip is fast enough, at 100km/h average.  Why are the other trips slower, mostly 11 minutes?

[Stillwater]

Posted earlier:  'One of the Sunshine Coast services (leaving Nambour at 6:57am on weekdays) appears to have a large dwell time in the city - 8 mins from Fortitude Valley to Central??!'

This is the ICE train originating from Gympie North, I believe.  It usually is crowded and the carriages do not have double doors -- just single ones.  This means a longer stay in station in order for disembarking passengers to detrain.

Toilet-equipped trains north of Caboolture please.

[SteelPan]

The enhanced peak time services - and extra services at other non-peak times - are obviously welcome and many would say well overdue.  I still however, think we're all dancing 'round the fire abit - EVERY rail line in SE Qld could do with extra - NOT fewer services - the Tennyson line will grow in popularity in pretty quick time with higher density living - Brisbane sadly has few "cross city" lines and should protect and grow their worth to the network. Simply put, this is a bit of a shuffle dance, albeit with a few positive steps - but a much more seductive waltz is still required!      Ps. re bus timetables - I do know my local bus has probably more than doubled passenger numbers in the last decade or so - with no additional services added!  

[BrizCommuter]

BrizCommuter is impressed with the new Ipswich Line timetables, and slightly confused by the new Caboolture Line timetables.
http://brizcommuter.blogspot.com/2010/11/2011-timetable-consultation.html

[david]

This is an excellent step forward in thinking! Just a couple of concerns...

1) I think that it should be MANDATORY to have a stop at Toowong. It is a very busy business precinct, as well as the being a major connector to UQ. If the timetablers were concerned about having too many stops in the express pattern, why not get rid of the Milton stop? People could easily backtrack from Roma St with the 15 minute counter-peak services (which all seem to magically connect to the express services from Ipswich  )

2) Why not extend the Richlands services to Petrie off-peak?

3) Some services originate from Darra. Maybe these should be extended to Richlands too?

I understand that this sounds very negative, but I'm all for change and this change is good change! Just trying to give my two cents worth 

Let the services begin!

[Cam]

Some of the feedback suggests that people were expecting a 15 minute off peak service to Ipswich & Caboolture. Before this is addressed, I think that there are more urgent gaps to fill e.g. the 18 minute gaps between services past Darra  before the 4.16pm ex Central. Between 3.30pm & the 4.16pm, commuters travelling past Darra are paying peak period price for an off peak frequency without any express services.

[#Metro]

) I think that it should be MANDATORY to have a stop at Toowong. It is a very busy business precinct, as well as the being a major connector to UQ. If the timetablers were concerned about having too many stops in the express pattern, why not get rid of the Milton stop? People could easily backtrack from Roma St with the 15 minute counter-peak services (which all seem to magically connect to the express services from Ipswich  Roll Eyes)

Agree. Swap Milton for Toowong if need be.

Some services originate from Darra. Maybe these should be extended to Richlands too?

Agree. 30 mins off peak to  Maybe there is no stabling on that line yet?

Let the services begin!

 

[david]

Just took a look at the Ipswich PM peak proposed timetable.
- The spacing out of services needs to be much better after 2:30pm (what's with the every 18 minutes after 2:30pm)
- Also, Auchenflower to Taringa and Chelmer to Oxley only get a slightly improved service from off-peak frequencies (every 12 minutes). Perhaps every 6 minutes as per AM peak? (Do people only catch the train to work?). I suppose they have left this gap for future City-Redbank services?

Looks like Rosewood-Ipswich will be a big winner.

Weekend timetable is terribly confusing. Why not have Saturday services run on Sundays as well?

[Cam]

The new express services should stop at either Milton or Toowong - whichever has the greater demand to disembark at inbound during peak periods. Does anyone have the figures?

[Derwan]

Why not have Saturday services run on Sundays as well?

Remember when the drivers were going to strike because they were being asked to work the same number of Sundays as Saturdays?  If I remember correctly, QR backed down on this, which means we have to put up with different timetables and less frequent services for Sunday compared to Saturday.

[ozbob]

The interim Richlands timetable doesn't seem to be available yet.  The interim Richlands timetable will be in operation from January until the new IPS - CAB timetable is commenced.

Due to the difficulty with the present timetable and paths, I would expect some shuttles on that line in January when the interim Richlands timetable starts.  I suppose the annoying thing for me is that the whole lot is not being done from day one of Richlands.  

We have a vague commitment, sometime in the first half of next year for the main event.  Ok, consultation will go ahead.  I think the only really contentious issue is Toowong. Just add it in, leave Milton.  Milton is a surprising heavy loading station in peaks, and heavy counter peak as well.  Obviously there must be load data to support this initial draft timetable.   I would like to think that the new timetable could be started no later than March.

Another consideration is that the decision to bypass Toowong may be a deliberate strategy to load balance between expresses and the all stoppers?

My observations concerning Toowong, honed from many years on the daily commute was that Toowong inbound in the morning was a moderate loader, few pax got off, and outbound, moderate numbers of pax got off, with a smaller but significant number boarding outbound at Toowong.  The fact that it does service UQ must be a consideration.

And the lack of information re what is proposed for bus also constrains consultation opportunities to be fully explored.