2011 Timetable changes

[ozbob]

Picked up copies of the draft timetables at Central this morning.  Copies have been handed out on the network at selected stations as well.

Important to give targeted feedback at the various consultation sessions.  They are listening.

The Sunshine Coast line continues to be a major concern to us all.

[Fares_Fair]

2011 DRAFT TIMETABLE

They are proposing to put the current 5:14pm service back to leave Roma St at 5:02pm [earlier than current service]. No extra service at peak hour - in fact they have just spaced the services further apart!
QR staff working in the building overhead may get there in time for it, but not 5pm knock-off city commuters.
They also propose to reduce the express leg down to only 9 stations from the current 20, just so that sunshine coast commuters have an even longer day away from family.

This is utter madness - what clown came up with this approach - clearly someone who hates the sunshine coast commuter! What is Translink thinking when they created this disaster for the sunshine coast. How will this encourage us to take up public transport.

This governments approach is reprehensible in regard to it's ability to service the sunshine coast region.

5pm knock-off city commuters now have to wait until 5:47pm [later than the current service]
to catch an express service home.

I apologise for the strong language but this is truly astonishing .. I am appalled at the impact on our huge commuter day.

More to come ...

Regards,
Fares_Fair.

[Gazza]

Please don't hit me for asking this (I am just asking!) but why do people commute all the way to the CBD from the sunshine coast anyway?

[Fares_Fair]

I would never hit anyone Gazza ... and it is a fair question.
But have you tried to drive down lately?

That is where our work is and there are not enough jobs on the sunshine coast to accommodate us all.

Regards,
Fares_Fair.

[timbo]

Gazza....our jobs are in town. Maybe Translink are of the opinion that everyone lives 20 or 30 minutes away from where they work. Perhaps 10 years ago this was correct, but times have changed. This could also be the reason that most Sunshine Coast services don't have toilets!!!

[longboi]

But its still your choice to live in the Sunshine Coast and not within a reasonable distance to work.

[somebody]

But its still your choice to live in the Sunshine Coast and not within a reasonable distance to work.

That may be, but that would also apply to the Gold Coast, wouldn't it?  Why does one coast get a service much less in proportion to its population than the other?

[timbo]

Yes, Nikko, it is our choice to live on the Sunshine Coast, but why do of thousands of us deserve a second rate train service? Shouldn't everyone have access to reasonable public transport services?

[longboi]

I'm not saying the SC shouldn't have the same sort of rail service as the Gold Coast, it should. But I find it a bit ludacrious that a few people make the decision to live so far from their work and then whinge that the Government is ignoring them or treating them like second-class citizens.

Its akin to me getting a job in Redcliffe (I live in Mitchelton) and then wondering why there isn't a direct Brookside-Redcliffe bus route.

[timbo]

"A few people make the decision to live so far from their work". Nikko, perhaps you should take a trip or two on the peak hour Sunshine Coast trains to and from Central. You'll see more than a few people.
My questions remains.....Why do we deserve a second rate train service?

[#Metro]

"A few people make the decision to live so far from their work". Nikko, perhaps you should take a trip or two on the peak hour Sunshine Coast trains to and from Central. You'll see more than a few people.
My questions remains.....Why do we deserve a second rate train service?

We are all guilty of this to different degrees. Not everyone can live on top of Central Station. There isn't enough space, and there is the NIMBY factor too.

[STB]

Have just come from the Ipswich Western Region services launch and they said that it was highly unlikely that they will change any timetables despite the consultation.

[ozbob]

Who is 'they' STB?

[STB]

TransLink Planners/Service Delivery staff.

[mufreight]

Please don't hit me for asking this (I am just asking!) but why do people commute all the way to the CBD from the sunshine coast anyway?

Yes Gazza, the short answer is yes, many would find themselves in the situation where they moved there because they had employment in the region and established themselves there, own (or the banks) home kids in school there,
then the job is gone and for employment they have no choice other than the long commute which they undertake rather than lose everything they have accumulated as well as their lifestyle.
I would venture that they are every bit as much entitled to a decent level of decent service as the white shoe brigade silver tails from the Gold Coast.

[somebody]

Have just come from the Ipswich Western Region services launch and they said that it was highly unlikely that they will change any timetables despite the consultation.

Are we talking about the bus changes, rail changes or both here?

[STB]

Rail changes.  Simply because I asked them why there was bad bus/rail connections for the new Western Region timetables and they said it was due to the draft QR timetables is linked to the new Western Region services.  I then questioned what if QR/TL decides to change it (the 2011 rail timetable) and they said that they are not expecting any changes to the draft QR timetable.

[longboi]

"A few people make the decision to live so far from their work". Nikko, perhaps you should take a trip or two on the peak hour Sunshine Coast trains to and from Central. You'll see more than a few people.
My questions remains.....Why do we deserve a second rate train service?

I never said you deserve it. I just find it a bit rich to expect Government to bend over backwards for a small segment of the population (in comparison to other areas such as Springfield) who make the choice to commute such a long distance.

These sorts of things take time and money. Add the fact that Sunshine Coast actually has a rail service and you can see why its not exactly high on the list of priorities.

[Stillwater]

Perhaps in considering a lifestyle choice to live on the Sunshine Coast many would have believed the state government's promises about delivery schedules for the Beerburrum-Landsborough duplication and the CAMCOS project, to Caloundra initially, but ultimately to Maroochydore.  The Beerburrum-Landsborough duplication, in particular, has the potential to allow for so much flexibility in delivering better train services to Nambour.

In any event, the Sunshine Coast is where the state government sees a 'spillover' population from Brisbane being housed.  The Coast's permanent population is 320,000 currently (plus another 50,000 if you average out the 2.7 million visitors who come every year.)

Now the state government wants to house another 50,000 people at Caloundra South and about 17,000 people at Palmview, between the Caloundra turn-off and Nambour.

The state government has to bring forward Beerburrum-Landsborough duplication, especially now that CAMCOS has been shelved for two decades.  The focus has to switch back to how the line to Nambour can be made to work harder.  Some extra-long crossing loops would help.  Remember, Gold Coast has dual tracks with no freight trains, the Sunshine Coast a single track beyond Beerburrum, with passenger and freight trains competing for travel slots.

[Stillwater]

Agree, that 5.02pm service from Central to Nambour is a real worry.  It has the potential to make the 5.47pm service a sardine tin.  I don't have an answer, but maybe the train schedule planners will.

Compromises could include having a train from Central to Caboolture being met at Caboolture by a Nambour train, with passengers proceeding beyond Caboolture having to change trains for the journey north.  That way, the train from Central could be turned back at Caboolture.

Spare a thought also for those who don't want to wait around until 5.47pm, but want to travel beyond Nambour before that train reaches Nambour.  They must catch a train about 2.30pm-3.00pm to meet a Noosa bound bus at Nambour.  Any later and connection missed, wait at Nambour for the 5.47pm service from Central to come through.

For those over 18, there's one or two good pubs around Nambour station.

[somebody]

When does the PM peak period start?  For stations beyond Petrie, there is still to be a 24 minute gap from 4:22pm to 4:46pm ex-Central, and also an 18 minute gap 4:52pm to 5:10pm.  And an 18 minute gap for stations Virginia-Lawnton 5:31pm-5:49pm.  And an 18 minute gap 6:19pm-6:37 for all stations north of Northgate.

Overall grade for the Caboolture line's PM peak: F

Better in the AM, main limitations are later in the peak, besides the all stopping from Northgate, with a 19 minute gap from Caboolture 7:24am-7:43am and an 18 minute gap after that.

Overall grade for the Caboolture line: C-

Sunshine Coast: F+ (at least they have sped up services)

[Gazza]

Right, so on the main page of the TL website it says, "Give feedback about timetable changes". You click it and it takes you to a page with links to PDFs of the new timetables, and times for community info sessions...But where can you actually give feedback? Or is going to sessions the only way?

[Stillwater]

This forum often compares the service passengers get on Queensland rail compared with other states.  Therefore, it is interesting to note that Lithgow and Bendigo are both roughly the same distance from Sydney and Melbourne, respectively, as Brisbane Central and Gympie North.

Lithgow-bound passengers have these travel by train choices after 5pm: 5.23pm, 5.37pm, 6.08pm, 8.09pm, 10.18pm and 12.18am (arriving at Lithgow at 3.09am).

For Southern Cross-Bendigo, the V-Line services after 5pm are: 5.00pm, 5.37pm, 6.18 pm, 7.15pm, 8.15pm, 9.15pm, 10.15pm and 11.45pm (arriving at Bendigo at 1.36am).

[#Metro]

Right, so on the main page of the TL website it says, "Give feedback about timetable changes". You click it and it takes you to a page with links to PDFs of the new timetables, and times for community info sessions...But where can you actually give feedback? Or is going to sessions the only way?

It is called 'demand management'. 

TransLink would be overwhelmed with complaints if they did it online.

[somebody]

Checking the Caboolture line, it seems that the majority of the PM peak Petrie trains access the middle road by using the "Up Main" through Northgate.  I guess this is the best trade off on the current infrastructure, but the 5:11pm Caboolture train cannot pass the 5:08pm Petrie train (times ex-Northgate) in any way I can see.  Oops!  Perhaps I am missing something here.  Similarly for the 5:38pm Petrie train vs the 5:41pm Caboolture train.

[BrizCommuter]

When does the PM peak period start?  For stations beyond Petrie, there is still to be a 24 minute gap from 4:22pm to 4:46pm ex-Central, and also an 18 minute gap 4:52pm to 5:10pm.

These gaps are filled by Sunshine Coast services which serve all stations beyond Petrie. However in a prime example of TransLink reverse logic they are not shown on the Caboolture Line timetable.

[Arnz]

The 42 min gap between the 5:04 Nambour and 5:46pm Gympie service, surely a Landsborough terminator can be squeezed inbetween, extending one of the Caboolture expresses to Landsborough.  

How to get the train back from Landsborough is another question, form a service back to Brisbane, or run empty to the Caboolture/Petrie yards, assuming a gap train is likely to be another EMU  

Either way, I still got concerns with some of the timetables (which include 2 services that continue to Ipswich/Rosewood), especially if they're going to take away all the current IMUs up here and replace them with EMUs, only to breach the OH&S and Zero Harm policies in regards to Nambour runs.

[somebody]

These gaps are filled by Sunshine Coast services which serve all stations beyond Petrie. However in a prime example of TransLink reverse logic they are not shown on the Caboolture Line timetable.

Oh dear.  Even CityRail has this one sorted.

Presumably these trains won't have toilets.

[Arnz]

Probably their excuse to take away the toilet equipped IMUs from the Sunshine Coast Line and give them all to every line but up here   , make the (2 oddball services in the morning, 2 oddball return services in the afternoon) Nambour services run most stations (express only between Northgate and Petrie) during peak  .  

The 3 other Nambour peak services runs express Northgate to Caboolture stopping Petrie, and the Gympie North service runs express from Bowen Hills to Caboolturre.

That's a poor excuse to address the toilet issue, especially with their insistence of "Zero Harm" during the short platform days, yet not provide most trains with toilets.  Seems "Zero Harm" is applied when it suits them/whoever has planned the draft TTs and/or Yardmasters.

[Arnz]

Update: Local News outlets (7 News Regional Qld and local papers) are already trumpeting on how the proposed "draft timetable" is bad for current Sunshine Coast commuters.  It highlights the "slow-down" of the peak expresses, plus the toilet issue.  Fiona Simpson is on record as opposing the proposed changes to the Sunshine Coast timetable.

[Stillwater]

Those full 'water bottles' left occassionally behind on some Sunshine Coast services sans toilets are not pineapple juice flavoured.  Shall we say, they contain water that's 'passed' its use-by date.

[#Metro]

Those full 'water bottles' left occassionally behind on some Sunshine Coast services sans toilets are not pineapple juice flavoured.  Shall we say, they contain water that's 'passed' its use-by date.

Gross!

[Derwan]

But where can you actually give feedback? Or is going to sessions the only way?

They now have a link on the timetable changes page:  http://www.zoomerang.com/Survey/WEB22BHJGZ2XRL/

[STB]

Bit disappointing that you can only choose one railway line.  I've got feedback for all three lines!

[ozbob]

http://www.fionasimpson.com.au/Media/LocalNews/tabid/69/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/559/Rail-fares-to-soar-under-long-term-Labor.aspx

Opposition Statement

Rail fares to soar under long-term Labor

Wednesday, 17 November 2010

The Bligh Government are quick to ramp up fares while slow to improve public transport services, the State Opposition said today.

Commuter rail service changes would offer more trains at busy stations, less at others, but the sting in the tail was the doubling of fares in five years.

LNP Shadow Minister for Main Roads and Transport Fiona Simpson said the upgraded services were welcome, but really only a drop in the bucket.

"You have to ask is it fair for fares to jump for all commuters while only a handful see improved services.

"The big whack for commuters is that rail fares will double in five years through Labor's annual 15 per cent increases with the cost of two zones on a gocard jumping from $2.32 in 2009 to $4.74 in 2014," Ms Simpson said.

"The next 15 per cent hike will happen in January ...all part of Anna Bligh's focus on cost-of-living increases ...about the only thing she's delivered on regularly and with great impact."

Ms Simpson said today's rail revamp announcement showed some areas may be worse off – either no new services or lost services as trains were pinched to fill holes in the timetable.

"It's not just the fare hikes that will hurt ...a lot of people will be left on empty platforms wondering what their options are with services cut back or chopped out altogether."

[#Metro]

Someone needs to pay for improved services.
There have been a lot of improvements, lots of work still to be done.
The money has to come from somewhere. Network efficiencies will be one, increased fares will be the other.

[ozbob]

Media release 19 November 2010

SEQ: Rail timetable change consultation cosmetic?

RAIL Back On Track (http://backontrack.org) a web based community support group for rail and public transport and an advocate for public transport commuters seeks urgent clarification on the bona fides of the extensive consultation process being undertaken in response to the release of the draft rail timetable changes for the Caboolture, Sunshine Coast and Ipswich - Rosewood railway lines.

"Yesterday, one of our members was told by TransLink staff during the Western region launch  ' .. that it was highly unlikely that they will change any (rail) timetables despite the consultation.'" (1)

"This is NOT what we have been previously informed.  We were under the impression that the consultation was genuine and where there were major impacts some consideration would be given to the public's view point."

"RAIL Back On Track is generally supportive of the rail timetable changes (2). Not withstanding that there are some aspects that need closer attention. For example the failure to plug some gaps on the Sunshine Coast line and the alteration of running patterns to further extend journey time on the long haul from Nambour is causing some concern to those commuters.  The failure to guarantee trains with toilets on the long haul runs is also a major issue. Why are all trains on the Caboolture line running all stations Northgate to Bowen Hills?"

"Other commuters are concerned with the decision to by pass Toowong with the express pattern on the Ipswich line.  Others are concerned with the reduction in terminating services at Redbank for example."

"It is essential that the public have faith in the consultation process and we seek assurances that this consultation is not a sham.  It is important that all TransLink and QR staff are truly reading from the same timetable!"

"The rationale for the changes in the new rail timetables also needs to be clearly spelt out.  The public is not a railway timetable mind reader.  This might help in the public gaining an appreciation of why certain aspects have been changed and what the longer term positive impacts of the changes actually are."

References:

1. http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=4867.msg39775#msg39775

2. 17 Nov 2010: SEQ: Timetable consultations commence http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=4868.0

Contact:

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org

Footnote:

We have been contacted by a TransLink representative who has confirmed that the rail timetable consultation is  important and that is why a date for implementation has not yet been set.

As we said, we were happy that consultation was to be properly considered and were somewhat taken back with the comments made to the member yesterday.  

We welcome the assurances again this morning that the advice given yesterday was in error.  

Thanks for the prompt response.

[chelmerpatrol]

For some stations the train frequency is reduced.  Currently Chelmer has ten trains inbound to the city between 6.45 adn 7.45 with an average wait time of approx 7 min.  With the proposed 'draft' schedule the number of services is reduced to six and average wait time between each train is increased to 15 min.  Seems like the frequencty of the 'hubs' is at the expense of the other stations.  I have provided feedback to TL...any other suggestions?

[ozbob]

Welcome ChelmerPatrol.

If you can attend one of the consultation sessions and give direct feedback as well that would be valuable I think.



See --> http://www.translink.com.au/travel-information/service-updates/queensland-rail-timetable-changes

There is a degradation of frequency at certain times but the gain is around the clock 15 minute frequency.  I guess a balance has to be found.

[ozbob]

From the Sunshine Coast Daily click here!

Changes to train service blasted

Changes to train service blasted

19th November 2010

REGULAR commuters have lambasted draft changes to Queensland Rail's Sunshine Coast timetable which they say will only lengthen their time away from home.

Transport Minister Rachel Nolan this week announced the biggest timetable shake-up in South-East Queensland for a decade, which would include increased services to Caboolture.

But commuter Jeffrey Addison said the changes seemed to make using the trains more difficult for Sunshine Coast-based workers travelling to and from Brisbane.

In one of the most significant changes, the 5.16pm service from Central to Nambour would depart earlier at 5.02pm, which Mr Addison said left little time for office workers to get to the station.

He said the 5.47pm service from Central to Gympie would consequently become more crowded and commuters would get home later.

Their journey would also be lengthier because the service would be express for only nine stations, rather than the current 20.

The 6.27am service from Nambour has also been pushed back to 6.37am on the draft timetable, arriving at Central at 8.28am rather than 8.16am, which Mr Addison said was too late for many to get to work on time.

Those aiming for an 8.30am start in the city would be forced to catch a 6.08am service from Nambour, arriving at Central at 8.02am.

"You'd either have to run late every morning or get the early service," Mr Addison said.

A Translink representative said the timetable had been released in draft form so commuters could provide feedback.