My Go Card trial

[WTN]

I'm sure this has already been mentioned repeatedly - but personally, I think its a little silly that morning peak starts at 2 AM - it would be a great incentive to offer off peak rates to early morning commuters

And help fill up early services that have lots of seats.  Try travelling through Central at 5:30am.  You'd be surprised.

[Derwan]

Err - me?  One of the irritations of GO card is that there's only an hour to touch on for continuation from one trip to the next, unlike the 2 hours of the old paper ticket. 

Single paper tickets allowed for entire journeys (including transfers) of up to 2 hours.

Go Cards allow for a single journey to take up to 5 hours!  (Provided that you don't do more than 3 transfers, there isn't more than an hour between transfers and the final transfer commences no more than 3.5 hours after the initial touch on.)

[dwb]

It's not going home then going somewhere else, it is going home via the shops.... TL should be promoting its users to do this, bc it improves the usability of PT.... just like why there is zero intermodal cost.

[justanotheruser]

this is why it is also unreasonable that you MUST have a credit card to register a childs go card. Why should people who want to protect their childs credit be penalised if they don't have a credit card? Giving credit card details to register is not secure so even if you have a visa access then you are risking losing money. Some may say it is limited but if they are happy to cover the risk for every single person who has a card then I would be prepared to listen.
As much as we like to think bullying doesn't happen in schools the fact is it does. Should we reward bullying by allowing the bullies to steal another kids go card and use all the credit simply because translink do not allow it to be registered?

Can't you register a card without giving credit card details? I thought it was only if you want to top up on the internet that you first have to register and then have visa/mastercard access. I'm pretty sure I didn't give them my credit card details to register a concession card?

Bpay is just as liable to fraud and criminal behaviour, identify theft etc as a credit card or debit card with mastercard/visa support. Your liability for transactions are limited by the system eg your bank, visa/mastercard, bpay organisation and hence they do things to protect their liability such as using the police, charging criminals, protecting their electronic systems etc.

sorry if I didn't make it clear. I was talking about a CHILD card not a concession card. Under the current system to register a child card you must have a credit card. One member here suggested it was because of the debt ability of the card but when asked to explain they didn't reply. Go cards don't have debt capacity as far as I'm aware.

[ozbob]

In Melbourne this week just started a short trial using the myki card (equivalent of the go card).  Initial impressions very favourable, see --> here for details.

[ozbob]

Done a couple of interesting things with the go card on the way home from the airport today.

1. Firstly I did it as a single journey from Brisbane Airport, as expected I was debited with the ripoff fare.

Adult single journey from Brisbane Airport to Oxley is $20.40, concession $18.10.

So for the non air train leg adult is paying $5.90 for a fare which should cost $3.20
Concession is paying $3.60 for a fare which should cost $1.60.

Ripoff is well and truly in place, confirmed! Going to the airport last Tuesday I broke the journey into two trips and paid the correct fare for the non airtrain leg.

2.  With some planning I made sure when I touched off at the airport last Tuesday my go card balance was less than the expected fare on the return leg, but greater than $5, so the auto topup was not activated when I touched off at the airport on Tuesday.  I have a $40 auto topup activated on my card.  The reason for this is I wanted to see what would happen when I went negative with the touch at Oxley on the return leg.  My card balance is showing -$10.98 at the moment  

I expect that the next touch will see the auto top up add the top up amount, minus the negative balance at the moment.

This behaviour raises some interesting scenarios.  For example some one travelling to Gympie North with a go card with a balance of say $6 on the touch at the airport will have a negative balance of $30.60 ($36.60 - $6) on touch off at Gympie North.  Now if their auto topup is set for say $20, a single top up will not cover the negative balance.  Guess it will do a double top up, if the system can handle it (but I doubt if they considered this situation).  Worst case is that it won't allow a touch on at all because it is negative.  Interesting ...



Footnote:  I will be doing a touch on first thing tomorrow on my morning walk ....   I want to have a negative balance overnight ..  LOL

This is what it says in the Conditions of Use http://www.translink.com.au/go_conditions.php

# TransLink will transfer your auto top-up amount, whenever the card balance on the nominated go card falls below $5.00.
# When the card balance falls below $5.00, the nominated go card needs to be touched on before the auto top-up amount will be added to the card balance.

[ozbob]

I touched my go card on at Oxley this morning.  Top up adjusted balance to $29.02  ($40 - $10.98) as expected.

[ozbob]

Here is the history

09-Jan-10 06:35:16 AM     Cancel touch on     Oxley         
09-Jan-10 06:34:02 AM    Touch on    Oxley        
09-Jan-10 06:34:02 AM    Auto top up    Oxley    40.00    

[justanotheruser]

was trying to figure out why the massive leap in price. I then realised I am on adult fares now instead of concession! oops silly me

[dwb]

@wtn & nightwriter

Quote from: Nightwriter on January 05, 2010, 06:35:05 PM
I'm sure this has already been mentioned repeatedly - but personally, I think its a little silly that morning peak starts at 2 AM - it would be a great incentive to offer off peak rates to early morning commuters
And help fill up early services that have lots of seats.  Try travelling through Central at 5:30am.  You'd be surprised.

The issue we have with offpeak at the moment seems to me that we have many commuters who travel long distances who effectively have to board a service "before peak" in order to arrive at work by 9am... what would be good is rather than giving these people offpeak prices, work out a way that the first touch off time is used to determine eligibility for morning peak.

Alternatively, an even better way to work it out is to have station/platform specific times... that means if you go to Robina station its peak on the Brisbane bound platform would be 6-8am only, and 5-7pm on the other platform... that means you would get directional peaks! This would require a heap more programming. Passengers would know their station peak hours however and could change their behaviours... I've seen it work like this in regards to cash fares on the metro in Santiago... was station/time dependant.

For buses, again, I think if you are travelling in non-peak direction during either the 7-9am or 4-6pm rush, then you should still get offpeak fare. They could simply publish a variation to the zonal map, that indicates which stops at which times of day are on/off peak.... or better still just have it on the sign at each local stop - afterall the punters whose behaviour you are trying to change are the regulars.... the occasional user shouldn't be so price sensitive and just cop the relevant fare for the time/location they travel.

[ozbob]

Mrs Ozbob was out on the GO yesterday, and noted a number of punters discussing the go card on board.  Seems much confusion, Mrs Ozbob was most adamant that punters have to make an effort as well.  Yes, indeed I said!  Off peak fares debited over the weekend.  Good!

[STB]

Touched off at Cleveland this morning and when doing so the reader gave me a yellow light, three beeps and a blank screen.  AVVM came in handy to check out if I had indeed touched off.

[STB]

An additional...

I overheard staff at Cleveland railway station on several occassions actually telling passengers not to buy the Go Card as the system didn't work.  I wonder if other stations have been doing the same? Hmmm....

[STB]

Wandered in to the city to see how much of a presence the TL staff were making for Go Card.  Spotted 1 on the inbound and 1 on the outbound platforms at Buranda Busway Station, 2 on the outbound platform at Buranda Railway Station (and one Cubic guy right next to them doing repairs to a reader lol...), none at Roma Street and 1 at Fortitude Valley railway station.  Also spotted the Station Officer putting up Buy Your Go Card Here flags next to the ticket office at Fortitude Valley station.

[ozbob]

... Spotted 1 on the inbound and 1 on the outbound platforms at Buranda Busway Station, 2 on the outbound platform at Buranda Railway Station (and one Cubic guy right next to them doing repairs to a reader lol...),

Now that would have been a great photo!   

[WTN]

There were 2 Translink staff at Adelaide St Stop 46 this afternoon on my way home.  I didn't see them approach anyone though.

[STB]

From the Bus Australia forums...

Installation of Go Card Machines at Busway Stations

Postby Volvo B12BLEA » Mon Jan 11, 2010 11:20 pm
TRANSLink have started installing the machines for Go Card top-ups & tickets on the Busway Stations.

Cultural Centre was being done this morning with a machine on the I/B platform & 1 on the bridge that joins the 2 platforms.
They were installed today but how long before the power is connected and they are working??

http://www.busaustralia.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=48530

[ozbob]

Good news the key bus stations and interchanges are finally getting sorted for go gear.

Presently at the main gates at Central.  Marked increase in the number of punters using the go card.  Estimate at least 75% so far are go carders.  

Report at Oxley this morning of a Senior (red card) being charged full fares.  Couldn't understand why money was GOing  faster than the Tilt Train ...  suggested ring up TL and have it fixed ..

[Nightwriter]

Just had to queue in order to touch off at Roma Street, a little past 7 am.  People are clearly starting to come back to work, and are getting on Go Card - and its going to be even clearer that the equipment provided is not going to cope with the influx.

Feel sorry for the poor people who alight from trains around 8 am!  Imagine the queues then!!!   

[STB]

Something I've just started to notice since more people are using Go Card is that it's becoming harder to touch off at the fare gates if you're arriving in the city in the afternoon peak, or to touch on heading out of the city in the morning peak.

[ozbob]

Yes will be a quite a challenge come the end of January ... 

[dwb]

Just a quick note, I´m in Buenos Aires at the moment and the subway/metro (subte) and buses can be paid for by smart card. It looks like there are two options on smart card, you can use Monedero which is a bit like the pay pass and can be used in stores and other places and then sube which is the one owned by the state for the metro. All services can be paid for, however it works like an electronic purse and does not calculate any fares. I think all the fares on the metro are flat fee 1.10arg pesos = 33c aud and the buses use a sort of distance based approach, the maximum fare in the city is 1.25 pesos = 38c aud. You pay when you enter the metro and do not need to tag off... flat fee and the same on the bus, you board tell the driver where you will get off or the amount of the fare then press your card.  All fares on bus can be paid for by coin in a machine, you simply tell the driver the fare you will purchase. Most buses have three doors, and are probably about 10m long... but in terms of capacity the same as Brisbane (the are not airconditioned and it is hot here!).  I haven´t used the trains so i´m not sure if they are integrated but metro can also be paid for by using a paper magnetic card purchased as a single or 10 trip. There is no discount for buying 10 trips.

[ozbob]

G'day DWB! 

Great to hear from you.  Sounds like a great trip, look forward to further reports!  Enjoy.

Regards
Bob

[ozbob]

The local news agency at Oxley has now finally received the pre-loaded go cards for sale.

Will be a lot more folks back at work this week and moving to the go card.  Always good to help new GOers ... LOL

I had a close look at the readers on platform 3 this morning, as you do, and I think the font is darker.  This is bit of a breakthrough in useability ... 

[Nightwriter]

Two of the readers that I looked at this morning at Dinmore are affected by water and are unreadable.  Beep audible on the machine I used so thats something!

Do the screen dry out?? Or is the moisture completely trapped?

[ozbob]

They tend to dry out during the day, depending on the ambient conditions. But that is not much good for folks trying to use them now ...
There are ventilation slits down towards the bottom of the readers.  

[Nightwriter]

Thanks for that, I'll check them out on my way through this afternoon.

I must admit, I've never noticed the ventilation slits...weird.

[STB]

Just brought my concession Go Card, and had no problems with the cancellation of my adult Go Card to the transfer of my details to register this new card.  Just awaiting the transfer of the remaining balance from my (now cancelled) adult Go Card to the concession Go Card.  Suggested on the phone that it would take 5 working days to do.  Will keep an eye out.

[Jon Bryant]

Jumped off at central this morning and exited down subway.  All gates appeared to be locked open as they were not even attempt to close irrespective of gap between card swipes.  Swipe beeps were a continual stream.

[O_128]

Started using Go Card last week. All seems well. Though the northen reader at manly station has a really faded scree the lights dont work and no beeps. And on another note after 18 months the PIDs at manly are finally operational

[STB]

What the...?

Count the 'Touch On Transfers' All SIX of them...

18-Jan-10 02:31:19 PM Touch on transfer Capalaba Bus Station stop A [30182]     6th transfer
18-Jan-10 01:54:15 PM Touch off Capalaba Bus Station stop D [30185] -0.81  *  
18-Jan-10 01:08:32 PM Touch on transfer Cultural Centre Bus Station (Lead Stop A) [8220]     5th transfer
18-Jan-10 01:05:53 PM Touch off 'Cultural Centre' Busway Station OB [BT010801]    
18-Jan-10 12:53:52 PM Touch on transfer Adelaide St app Wharf St (Stop 33) [BT000033]     4th transfer
18-Jan-10 12:35:09 PM Touch off Adelaide St app Wharf St (Stop 33) [BT000033]    
18-Jan-10 12:27:02 PM Touch on transfer Adelaide St opp City Hall (Stop 44) [BT000044]     3rd transfer
18-Jan-10 12:10:11 PM Touch off King George Square Station 2D [BT010786]    
18-Jan-10 12:08:57 PM Touch on transfer Roma St Bus Station Platform 2 [BT010792]  2nd transfer   
18-Jan-10 12:05:17 PM Touch off Roma Street    
18-Jan-10 11:54:23 AM Touch on transfer Milton   1st transfer 
18-Jan-10 11:41:26 AM Touch off Milton -1.04  *  
18-Jan-10 11:23:05 AM Touch on Fortitude Valley

Is this right?  From my brand spankin new Concession Go Card, brought yesterday.

[ozbob]

Well within 3 and half hours.  There is more than  the odd bug or three ....  must be the bugging software upgrade.  

Impressive.

Might be time to have a contest, who can get the most consecutive transfers.  STB, you are in front with six. Yes, we know we are only meant to get three, but that must just a guideline ... LOLOL

[ozbob]

I noted a large go card gate at Roma St this morning was stuck on open intermittently.

I always choose the ones that are working properly as that way I know I have touched ..  

Approaching another auto topup ...

[ozbob]

Media Release 19 January 2010

SEQ:  Go card is buggy

RAIL Back On Track (http://backontrack.org) a web based community support group for rail and public transport and an advocate for public transport commuters has suggested all go card users should monitor their transaction history on the go card daily.  There are still regular reports of incorrect fares and other issues with the go card system.  Registering your go card and following the transactions on line is easy, alternatively the last ten transactions can be read on the ticket machines.  Incorrect charges can be claimed back from TransLink.

Robert Dow, Spokesman for RAIL Back On Track said:

"According to the go card user guide it is possible to transfer up three times (1) in a single journey. A member has today achieved six consecutive transfers using the go card (2).  Clearly more than a few issues remaining with the go card software."

"We have also documented other incorrect fare charges (3)."

"Clearly, consumers should not assume the go card is infallible, it is not.  Check your transactions regularly."

References:

1.  http://download.translink.com.au/go/091223_userguide.pdf  page 16

2.  http://backontrack.org/mbs/index.php?topic=486.msg19748#msg19748

3.  http://backontrack.org/mbs/index.php?topic=486.msg18133#msg18133

Contact:

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org

[ozbob]

Some reports of some odd events on a ferry today with charges, the amount of $64.64 was mentioned.  That looks like a string number or something ...

I did a couple of streams today at Central for fun.  A stream is a legitimate touch behind another user but quickly so that the gates don't close (in fact they just stay open).  At peak some commuters are becoming very practised at this and a number will stream through, the gate remaining open the whole time.

[justanotheruser]

sorry if I didn't make it clear. I was talking about a CHILD card not a concession card. Under the current system to register a child card you must have a credit card. One member here suggested it was because of the debt ability of the card but when asked to explain they didn't reply. Go cards don't have debt capacity as far as I'm aware.

was informed the other day over the phone (when calling to arrange refunds) that despite it clearly saying on translink website you do NOT actually need a credit card to register a childs go card. I suggested they fix the phrasing as it was very misleading so hopefully they will

[justanotheruser]

I have an idea for another competition (as well as most transfers). See who has the most incorrect penalty fares in the shortest time.
I'll start. Three penalty fares over five trips done in two days. Who can beat that.
Sat 16th 10:14am. Bundamba to Ipswich via bus.
Sat 16th 12:50pm Ipswich (bell st) to Bundamba. This is the interesting bit. Even though I got on at ipswich the transaction history shows that I got on at stubbin st Bundamba!!! This is about 3 kms past my stop. how does this happen. The bus takes 25 min to drive from one spot tothe other. How ould the GPS get it so wrong?
was charged penalty fare when I got off this bus as the stop I got off at is 3 kms before the stop it says I got on at.
Mon 18th 7:24am penalty fare for not touching off.  When I looked at history it said I touched on at the exact same time as I touched off on saturday.

[ozbob]

What a shocker justanotheruser.  That is making hard for everyone is it not?  It is very disappointing that these constant errors are still rearing up, particularly location errors.   

Hence our advice to all users to check their transactions regularly.

[ozbob]

Sent to all outlets:

20th January 2010

Greetings,

Unless something is done to sort out the support environment for go card users and sort out the constant errors on the go card system, including the lack of equipment at key rail stations it is highly likely there will massive discontent come late January as full public transport loads resume.

Here are are couple of recent feedbacks to RAIL Back On Track.  TransLink and I would suggest operators and Government are receiving a lot of similar feedback.  Rather than pretend all is GOing so well, how about actually doing something positive for a change, rather than stupid spin statements congratulating each other on how well the go card uptake is going as people are forced from paper to go card simply because of the huge price penalty for paper?

I have an idea for another competition (as well as most transfers). See who has the most incorrect penalty fares in the shortest time.
I'll start. Three penalty fares over five trips done in two days. Who can beat that.
Sat 16th 10:14am. Bundamba to Ipswich via bus.
Sat 16th 12:50pm Ipswich (bell st) to Bundamba. This is the interesting bit. Even though I got on at ipswich the transaction history shows that I got on at stubbin st Bundamba!!! This is about 3 kms past my stop. how does this happen. The bus takes 25 min to drive from one spot tothe other. How could the GPS get it so wrong?
was charged penalty fare when I got off this bus as the stop I got off at is 3 kms before the stop it says I got on at.
Mon 18th 7:24am penalty fare for not touching off.  When I looked at history it said I touched on at the exact same time as I touched off on saturday.

And ...

Besides incorrect charging I believe there is still a long way to go in customer care for go card users.
I had a problem checking off at a station where the go card machines were not working. I phoned go card and it took 15minutes to log my problem and then I was told it would be "up to 10 working days to get a rebate" meanwhile my account was charged the penalty.

In this day and age 10 days seems excessive and 15 minutes to capture details when they already have my details on the system having registered my card also seems a bit over the top.

Given the 10 days I had to record the card number and then check daily on line to check that the rebate eventually went through.

I understand that the Customer Support staff are on separate systems to the payment processing team. If the web system at least could provide details not only of transaction history but also calls I have logged and there status this would be a vast improvement in customer care (i.e. I wouldn't have to carry a piece of paper around for 10 days with a call reference number on it)

Hence our advice to all users to check their transactions regularly.

Best wishes
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
RAIL Back On Track


RAIL Back On Track Admin wrote:

Media Release 19 January 2010

SEQ:  Go card is buggy

RAIL Back On Track (http://backontrack.org) a web based community support group for rail and public transport and an advocate for public transport commuters has suggested all go card users should monitor their transaction history on the go card daily.  There are still regular reports of incorrect fares and other issues with the go card system.  Registering your go card and following the transactions on line is easy, alternatively the last ten transactions can be read on the ticket machines.  Incorrect charges can be claimed back from TransLink.

Robert Dow, Spokesman for RAIL Back On Track said:

"According to the go card user guide it is possible to transfer up three times (1) in a single journey. A member has today achieved six consecutive transfers using the go card (2).  Clearly more than a few issues remaining with the go card software."

"We have also documented other incorrect fare charges (3)."

"Clearly, consumers should not assume the go card is infallible, it is not.  Check your transactions regularly."

References:

1.  http://download.translink.com.au/go/091223_userguide.pdf  page 16

2.  http://backontrack.org/mbs/index.php?topic=486.msg19748#msg19748

3.  http://backontrack.org/mbs/index.php?topic=486.msg18133#msg18133

Contact:

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org

[Mozz]

Maybe each train platform and each bus station should have phones with a direct connection back to the translink call centre so that commuters are more easily able to contact them and register their issues or report faults.