My Go Card trial

[ozbob]

I noted gate 3 from the right Edward St array on at Central, had an 'out of order' notice on it this afternoon ...  I could not help but notice the colour of the notice - orange.

Not looking good for the 100% go is it?   Thousands trying to squeeze through a few dysfunctional gates ...

Soldier on!

[Mozz]

Main go card reader at western end of Oxley platform 3 out of service this morning, announcements over the intercom from station staff to use the ones located at eastern end of platform which were working.

[ozbob]

Was there a sign on the failed reader Mozz?

[Mozz]

Don't know the reader was 120m down the other end of the platform I could have asked the out of breath lady who was very obviously pregnant but I didn't want to push my luck

[dwb]

379 inbound from Windsor - Go card system down, covered in paper
waited at new busway at the Royal Brisbane, saw nurse unsuccessfully try to tag off, three reds
393 go card system down for entire journey
333 tagged on, tried to tag off at KGS, flashed red twice on one reader, did nothing on the other back reader, had to go to front to tag off.

Not a good morning for Go from my perspective!

[WTN]

Busted readers on the 174 this morning.  Tried touching on, reader went red and showed "seek assistance".  Driver told me just get on.  Paper ticketing still worked for those without cards.  I also noted a rear reader had the same problem when a few tried touching off. 

What surprised me was this bus was very full (standees down to the back at some time).  About a year ago it wasn't like that.  What's even more annoying was the 175 arriving at City Hall a few minutes later, and it was a bendy bus with free seats.  Grrr...

Come afternoon and a similar thing happened.  A 174 getting swamped by boarding passengers while a near empty 175 rigid pulled in.  I boarded the latter with about 10 others.  Lots of seats all the way home.  Maybe that other bus had a broken reader.

[Otto]

379 inbound from Windsor - Go card system down, covered in paper
waited at new busway at the Royal Brisbane, saw nurse unsuccessfully try to tag off, three reds
393 go card system down for entire journey
333 tagged on, tried to tag off at KGS, flashed red twice on one reader, did nothing on the other back reader, had to go to front to tag off.

Not a good morning for Go from my perspective!

That was a widespread problem on the buses today affecting many services... Cause unknown and TL was advised.

[ozbob]

Caught a 66 the other day.  Beeps not working on the go equipment, this was a new artic ....

[dwb]

Two red flashes then one successful tag on, then when I tagged off (successful lights once) it said I'd been charged the penalty fare. No idea why, not happy and where's my frequent user discount gone?

Once paper is forcibly removed (ie weekly and monthlies) the proverbial is going to hit the fan!

Ok so I finally registered my card and looked up the transaction history on this one and it says

02-Dec-09 08:16:21 AM     Touch off     Adelaide St f/s George St (Stop 17) [BT0017_1]      -penalty     *
02-Dec-09 08:16:21 AM    Touch on    Adelaide St f/s George St (Stop 17) [BT0017_1]        
02-Dec-09 08:03:49 AM    Cancel touch on    'Paddington' Given Terrace [BT000817]        
02-Dec-09 08:03:42 AM    Touch on    'Paddington' Given Terrace [BT000817]        

I rang up and spoke to a consultant on 131230 today and he said that the first tag on was "incomplete" meaning that the "card had only partially read, and due to a programming error it cancelled the journey, it happens with the readers on the bus if they don't get all the information they need".  If you look at the timestamps, the cancel is within 10 seconds of the tag on, and under the explanation of how to use the system is says to wait 10 seconds before cancelling. Therefore its not really a cancel, its an "incomplete" tag on, confirming my experience as a user was that it didn't cancel. Like I said previously, two red flashes then one successful flash.

The guy on the phone said it wasn't my fault from what he could see, spent ages typing and then read out the standard "I have sent this to .... for investigation". I asked him how often people rang up about this and he just said "far less than when I started back in July last year" and that they've "corrected most programming errors".

What I find interesting is that the call took 7mins and 43 secs.  Even if that guy is on a low wage of ~$20/hr, the call just cost them  Cubic/Translink $2.47... which is more than the fare itself!

Might be interesting to request a report of "incomplete tags" under RTI?? Would present an interesting graph!!

[justanotheruser]

I got charged a penalty the other day by mistake. After calling they said they would look into it and process a refund. This happened after about six days. All done over the phone.

[ozbob]

Hey punters!

I have spent today riding buses with the go!  I am happy to report that I have not had a problem, beeps all fine, routes have been a variety ...

[ozbob]

Interesting, this morning I touched on at Darra, travelled to Wacol, touched off platform one.  Correct fare debited.

Moved over to platform 2 and touched back on - continuation of travel.  Correct.

Travelled back to Darra, touched off platform 3.  Correct touch, lights and zero charge on screen which is correct.

I just checked my go card history, has me as NOT touching off and balance already adjusted for a fixed fare penalty.

Rang the call centre, made a claim.  Seems the reader on three is a bit suspect ...  a lot of locals have reported issues with readers at Darra.  Little wonder, it is a major construction zone ...  this raises more issues with the programming, how on earth can you register a touch correctly at the reader  and the  system not register it?  Problem with the comm links?  Logic errors ... should be lots of fun 2010 ...

[STB]

Had a curious transaction this afternoon.  I had to go to Milton to drop off some documents which only took me about 15 minutes to do, and therefore touched back on at Milton to travel back home within the 60 minute transfer period.

Upon touching off at Central, it debited my card $0.52, although the trip to Milton was deducted correctly with $1.92 and $1.52 respectively (bus to train transfer).  Making my way back home via the bus instead of the train from Central to Capalaba, there was no fare deducted.

Is this correct?  Have TransLink done away with the "free" travel if you only do a short trip there and back?  Or have I been overcharged incorrectly?

Trip as follows:

21-Dec-09 03:05:44 PM Touch off Central -0.52  *  
21-Dec-09 02:44:24 PM Touch on transfer Milton    
21-Dec-09 02:25:59 PM Touch off Milton -1.52  *  
21-Dec-09 12:46:58 PM Touch on transfer Birkdale



Also an army of TOs (there were seriously at least 20 of them, no kidding!) boarded the train I was on (inbound to the City - at Coorparoo), and they questioned me of where I was heading after noticing that I touched on intially at 12:46pm, as it was then approximately 1:30pm.  It's as if they suspected I was attempting to travel on the trains with no intention to touch off. Hmm....

[ozbob]

There is a limit of three transfers, were there any before Birkdale?  Also what time did you first touch on in the sequence?  There is a time limit for the transfers as well I recall.

• your journey may consist of a total of three transfers
• the final trip of your journey must commence within
three and a half hours of the start of your first trip
• your whole journey must end within a five hour period
from start to fi nish to be considered a single journey

http://download.translink.com.au/go/080701_userguide.pdf  page 16

[ozbob]

hey questioned me of where I was heading after noticing that I touched on intially at 12:46pm, as it was then approximately 1:30pm

You are under no obligation to answer that  ... providing you are touched on and within 5 hours all legal.  None of their business if you like to sit on a station for an hour waiting for your train.  

[ozbob]

I just spoke with STB, he should have been charged zero for the last leg (Birkdale to Milton zone 5 to zone 1, Milton to Central zone 1 to zone 1).  Still within the three and a half hours.  Seems since auto topup, problems surfacing for STB.  My card has auto topup activated as well this may explain the system issue this morning at Darra.  

Be interested to hear of any more go cards with auto topup activated getting some strange fare outcomes ...

 

[STB]

Yes, there is definately some bug in the system.  I would be interested to see a card's journey history without the Auto Top up enabled on the card to run under similar circumstances and see if the same error occurs.

When speaking with the call centre, they basically shrugged and couldn't give me an answer for that $0.52, even if they did indeed alter the code to eliminate 'free' return trips within the hour of transfer time allowed, it should've not of been $0.52 anyway.

I'll be contacting TransLink again to challenge that charge, as they intially thought I had been undercharged (under the assumption that the 'free' return trip under within the hour of transfer had been fixed and therefore should be charged $1.92), and thus evidently I have been overcharged by some strange amount - $0.52.  From my history, the errors have only happened on rail only, and like I said to Robert, has happened after my first auto top up was enabled.  Buses seem to be unaffected so far, but more testing needs to be done to confirm that.

For the record, the trip after arriving at Central is as follows (final transfer).

21-Dec-09 04:10:03 PM     Touch off     Capalaba Bus Station stop D [30185]         
21-Dec-09 03:12:38 PM    Touch on transfer    Ann Street Stop 7 [7736]

So no fare charged.

This is actually the second time it has happened, just noticed it now.  Looking back at a similar trip I did recently, an overcharge did occur.  And all after my card activated it's Auto Top Up function.   

Well, got some activites planned for my Christmas break so it seems now .

Will report back once I find out more.

[dwb]

I had an odd day's travel once where I'd made four trips (in my mind two journeys - one their one back). The system charged me for the first 3 trips as one journey and the last trip as another journey. Ie it was all within the time allowances for one journey but I exceeded the number of transfers. Is it possible something like this happened and the 52c is some sort of adjustment or an extra zone somewhere?

Go card journey transfer rules are separate to paper journey rules. It is therefore not so much of an "accident" or a "loop hole" that you can get a rapid return for "free" but the implication of an already very complicated multitransfer time rule based system. As far as I'm aware, Go does not at all recognise what service you are on, just when and where you get on and when where you get off and uses the time rules and zone charges to calculate your fare.

This has interesting implications for transport planners if the system cannot tell them that customers don't utilise two different services between the same two stops in different manners... for instance one service may be express the other not, and yet the system just looks at passengers from one place to another and not that one service may be over crowded significantly and the other underutilised!

[ozbob]

Just a further update.

STB has contacted TL again and TL has now confirmed the charge for the 52 cents is anomalous (incorrect) and adjustment will made, fare should have been zero cost for the Milton to Central.  It was only the second transfer and well within the time limit. 

[ozbob]

I just touched my go card on at Oxley and cancelled.  The balance is now showing the correct amount, adjustment back to correct balance.  The interesting thing is that my go card history does not show the touch off at Darra yesterday.  Shows the transfer on at Wacol, and then the touch and cancel at Oxley this morning.  

22-Dec-09 05:12:08 AM    Cancel touch on    Oxley        
22-Dec-09 05:10:37 AM    Touch on    Oxley        
21-Dec-09 05:41:20 AM    Touch on transfer    Wacol        
21-Dec-09 05:40:09 AM    Touch off    Wacol    
21-Dec-09 04:37:35 AM    Touch on    Darra

Fascinating ... appears the go card reader western platform 3 Darra has lost contact with the system ...  this might explain a lot of problems reported from Darra by users ...

[ozbob]

Go card reader screen eastern platform 3 Oxley.

Moisture effected, a few drops external but most is moisture build up on the interior of the screen, which then makes it impossible to read the detail.   Not good enough.





Photographs R Dow 22nd December 2009

[STB]

Hit with an overcharge again for the second day!

Journey details as follows.

From my home (Zone 5) to TAFE - Finucane Rd (Zone 5) - $1.92
Transfer
TAFE - Finucane Rd to Cleveland Rail (Zone 5 to 6) - $0.40
Transfer
Cleveland Rail to Fortitude Valley Rail (Zone 6 to Zone 1) - Charged $1.69

Total - $4.01

Correct fare should have been $3.84 (an extra $1.52)

Have contacted TransLink (20 min phone call to explain it!) and they said they would investigate and refund me.

Hmmm....

[ozbob]

Just checked my go card history, still shows no touch off at Darra.

Now over 36 hours.  Never seen this before on rail (normally all go transactions on rail are live on the system and show in history virtually immediately) 

[justanotheruser]

I just spoke with STB, he should have been charged zero for the last leg (Birkdale to Milton zone 5 to zone 1, Milton to Central zone 1 to zone 1).  Still within the three and a half hours.  Seems since auto topup, problems surfacing for STB.  My card has auto topup activated as well this may explain the system issue this morning at Darra. 

Be interested to hear of any more go cards with auto topup activated getting some strange fare outcomes ...

   

I personally don't trust the security and would never use the top up feature untill I know for sure that it is secure. Standard secure payments systems are not secure.

[ozbob]

Checked my go card history, still 'touchless' at Darra ...  If I have time might do another trip or two through there and see if it registers on the history ..

RFID cards can be hacked but it is something beyond the capability of most, and why would a person try I suppose is the question. The auto - topup does not have CC information on the go card.  The CC info resides in the account database as normal, I don't have any concerns with the security of the auto topup.

[verbatim9]

Havent used my go card since April will be up in Brisbane on 25 Dec for a few days and going to top up over the internet this eve to use the card on Airtrain plus travel around Brisbane and Gold Coast.

[dwb]

I personally don't trust the security and would never use the top up feature untill I know for sure that it is secure. Standard secure payments systems are not secure.

Visa and your bank limit your liability - long story short if you act properly, and report misuse immediately, you're not liable.

[p858snake]

I personally don't trust the security and would never use the top up feature untill I know for sure that it is secure. Standard secure payments systems are not secure.

Visa and your bank limit your liability - long story short if you act properly, and report misuse immediately, you're not liable.

Yes, but the person doesn't want to put their personal CC/MC details into a postion where they are insecure due to lack of security security on the goCard web and backend systems.

[dwb]

It would likely be secure as any other payment system out there... you could be an agrophobe and never leave home, or you could weigh up the risks and mitigation measures. In this case, I'm sure most people would see handing over their details to Cubic no different to Telstra, Energex, Woolworhts or the like, esp given liability that is limited by Visa.

[ozbob]

Just checked my go card history.  I am still 'touchless' at Darra, but there is a little Christmas surprise waiting for me.

An adjustment for a fixed fare is pending in top ups!  Who says there is no Santa?   

[dwb]

Two red flashes then one successful tag on, then when I tagged off (successful lights once) it said I'd been charged the penalty fare. No idea why, not happy and where's my frequent user discount gone?

Once paper is forcibly removed (ie weekly and monthlies) the proverbial is going to hit the fan!

Ok so I finally registered my card and looked up the transaction history on this one and it says

02-Dec-09 08:16:21 AM     Touch off     Adelaide St f/s George St (Stop 17) [BT0017_1]      -penalty     *
02-Dec-09 08:16:21 AM    Touch on    Adelaide St f/s George St (Stop 17) [BT0017_1]        
02-Dec-09 08:03:49 AM    Cancel touch on    'Paddington' Given Terrace [BT000817]        
02-Dec-09 08:03:42 AM    Touch on    'Paddington' Given Terrace [BT000817]        

I rang up and spoke to a consultant on 131230 today and he said that the first tag on was "incomplete" meaning that the "card had only partially read, and due to a programming error it cancelled the journey, it happens with the readers on the bus if they don't get all the information they need".  If you look at the timestamps, the cancel is within 10 seconds of the tag on, and under the explanation of how to use the system is says to wait 10 seconds before cancelling. Therefore its not really a cancel, its an "incomplete" tag on, confirming my experience as a user was that it didn't cancel. Like I said previously, two red flashes then one successful flash.

The guy on the phone said it wasn't my fault from what he could see, spent ages typing and then read out the standard "I have sent this to .... for investigation". I asked him how often people rang up about this and he just said "far less than when I started back in July last year" and that they've "corrected most programming errors".

What I find interesting is that the call took 7mins and 43 secs.  Even if that guy is on a low wage of ~$20/hr, the call just cost them  Cubic/Translink $2.47... which is more than the fare itself!

Might be interesting to request a report of "incomplete tags" under RTI?? Would present an interesting graph!!

Just checked my transaction history and the adjustment is there on 17 Dec.

[ozbob]

I tested the reader at Oxley east platforms 2/1 this morning and in so doing received my fixed fare penalty adjustment. Must be Christmas!  

I touched on platform 3, walked over the bridge and attempted to touch off on platform 2/1.  No luck so toddled off to the other end of the platform and successfully touched.

The reader east platforms 1/2 has been down for a few days now.  

See --> http://backontrack.org/mbs/index.php?topic=3187.0

[STB]

Tried out the Auto Top Up on the bus the other day and worked fine.

Have also just noticed that I have a pending top up of $2.04.  I'm presuming that it's comes from the fare adjustment from my previous overcharges?  If so, that was quick!

[justanotheruser]

Checked my go card history, still 'touchless' at Darra ...  If I have time might do another trip or two through there and see if it registers on the history ..

RFID cards can be hacked but it is something beyond the capability of most, and why would a person try I suppose is the question. The auto - topup does not have CC information on the go card.  The CC info resides in the account database as normal, I don't have any concerns with the security of the auto topup.

but how is that database accessed? If you enter your details through the website then it is not secure. simple as that. Sure not everyone has the skills but those who do are the ones likely to do damage. I have been shown how to do it although I don't remember how. I don't even work in IT so if I've been shown it isn't that hard. 

[justanotheruser]

It would likely be secure as any other payment system out there... you could be an agrophobe and never leave home, or you could weigh up the risks and mitigation measures. In this case, I'm sure most people would see handing over their details to Cubic no different to Telstra, Energex, Woolworhts or the like, esp given liability that is limited by Visa.

I guess thats why I'm hesitant. I don't hand over my credit card details to them. The only company I have given my details to do not store it on a database that can be hacked through the net.

[STB]

Can confirm that they have adjusted my previous overcharges, within only a few days too.  Amazing!

26-Dec-09 12:28:15 PM     Top up/Adjustment     Birkdale      2.04

[STB]

Gave the Go Card a good go today out Bribie Island way and noticed I got not only an adjustment but also got 5 transfers, 4 if you minus the rail 'transfer', where I had to duck out to grab something at Central before changing trains.

30-Dec-09 01:39:42 PM     Touch off     Second Avenue [22898]         
30-Dec-09 01:24:06 PM    Touch on transfer    Bribie Island Shopping Centre [22572]        
30-Dec-09 01:18:44 PM    Touch off    Bribie Island Shopping Centre [22572]        
30-Dec-09 01:05:42 PM    Touch on transfer    The Village Sandstone Point [51134]        
30-Dec-09 01:05:14 PM    Touch off    Pebble Beach Retirement Community [50911]        
30-Dec-09 12:47:31 PM    Touch on transfer    Bribie Island Shopping Centre [22572]        
30-Dec-09 12:46:38 PM    Touch off    Bribie Island Shopping Centre [22572]    -0.72    *
30-Dec-09 12:00:28 PM    Touch on transfer    Caboolture Train Station B [22503]        
30-Dec-09 11:53:00 AM    Touch off    Caboolture        *
30-Dec-09 10:57:52 AM    Touch on transfer    Central        
30-Dec-09 10:56:51 AM    Touch off    Central
30-Dec-09 09:58:09 AM     Touch on     Birkdale         
30-Dec-09 09:58:09 AM    Top up/Adjustment    Birkdale

   

[ozbob]

I am impressed STB! Within the 3 hour 30 min limit for the 5th transfer (3 h 26 min)   

Now, that shouldn't happen should it?   LOL

[STB]

Ha ha!  I don't think it's meant to happen but I was loving it when it kept saying 'Continuation' on the reader.    All that travel for $5.28.

Heck, I even saved money - Total travel $5.28 ($3.44 + $1.12 + $0.72) going by my history.  Where the actual fare should've been $5.60 http://www.translink.com.au/fares.php

Including the previously mentioned Top Up/Adjustment of $0.57.

I wonder if I should go and buy a lotto ticket?



EDIT: I hope TransLink doesn't find out about this...hehehehehe

[Nightwriter]

Well I received my GoCard from Bob yesterday (thanks heaps!) and have just registered my card.

I find it really annoying that I can't top up my card over the internet....unless I haven't found a way yet?  I want to BPay/direct debit because I do not have a credit card.  This is a real limitation (for me), not everyone has a credit card.