My Go Card trial

[ozbob]

I received my Go Card Feb 8 via mail.  I posted the application two weeks ago exactly, so that's fine.  If you want it quicker direct purchase or online.

Came with the useful information and a card holder.

So I will be able to do my own little trial. 

I am very hopeful now that we will see some realistic fare structures on the card (see http://backontrack.org/mbs/index.php?topic=480.0 ) and until then I will continue to use weekly in the main.

[ozbob]

On the Go.

1.  First step obtain password, rang 131230  8.30am on Saturday 9 Feb. 

2.  Success   , work your way through menu to operator.

3.  Password obtained and then accessed 'My Go card account'.  No problems other than pound sign instead of $ sign*.  That might be a browser issue.

4. Then topped up card with $20 online.  All details from purchase present straightforward, although if you don't touch the card within one month of top up the amount is cancelled (makes note to self to ask TL why?).   Will see how long it takes to credit account with money.  It says may take up to 48 hours to add to card balance may not be available for travel immediately.



*Footnote:  I checked with IE shows $,  Firefox is showing 'pound' sign, so this a minor cross browser compatibility issue.  No other problems so far with Firefox or IE. 

Later Footnote: See this post I made on how to get FireFox to display $ click here!

[ozbob]

Just checked my Go card balance.

The $20 top up not yet added (< 24 hours still), credit card has been debited though   

[ozbob]

I have  weekly ticket which last day is Monday.

So I will use the Go card on Tuesday to Friday (4 days) of the coming week.  If all works to plan this will cost 3 x daily plus 1 x daily half fare.

I don't plan to do additional trips this week or weekend so cost will be OK. 

[Derwan]

2.  Success   , work your way through menu to operator.

Did you have any trouble with the machine recognising "Go Card"?

4. Then topped up card with $20 online.  All details from purchase present straightforward, although if you don't touch the card within one month of top up the amount is cancelled (makes note to self to ask TL why?).   Will see how long it takes to credit account with money.  It says may take up to 48 hours to add to card balance may not be available for travel immediately.

I'm at 40 hours and counting.  The weekend might have something to do with it though.

*Footnote:  I checked with IE shows $,  Firefox is showing 'pound' sign, so this a minor cross browser compatibility issue.  No other problems so far with Firefox or IE. 

I checked the source in both, and the source reveals the corresponding pound/dollar sign.  They are different characters in the character-set, so it cannot simply be a display issue.  It would appear to be a server-side issue, with the server sending the incorrect sign if the browser is Firefox.  (I have no idea why!)

This is a dollar:  $
This is a pound:  ?

[ozbob]

No problems with the voice menu, navigated ok. 

I think though that there could be a direct Go card number as it is tedious going though a hierarchy of menus, particularly when folks just want to do Go Card business.

[ozbob]

When I topped up this message:

Pending Top Up Amounts
The top up amounts listed have been processed and will be downloaded to your card within 48 hours. You must touch on within 28 days from the transaction date, or the top up amount will be cancelled.

Transaction Date    Action    Top up amount    Expires

09-Feb-2008            Add         ?20.00         08-Mar-2008


I have reviewed the documentation and can find no reference to this in any of the documentation.

Why would you have to touch on within 28 days?  It may not be suitable for some commuters.
Does the top up amount if cancelled result in a refund?

Submitted this query to Translink

Greetings,

When I topped up this message:

Pending Top Up Amounts
The top up amounts listed have been processed and will be downloaded to your card within 48 hours. You must touch on within 28 days from the transaction date, or the top up amount will be cancelled.

Transaction Date    Action    Top up amount    Expires

09-Feb-2008            Add         ?20.00         08-Mar-2008


I have reviewed the documentation and can find no reference to this in any of the documentation.

Why would you have to touch on within 28 days?  It may not be suitable for some commuters.
Does the top up amount if cancelled result in a refund?

Also a ? (pound) sign is shown instead of dollar sign if you use Firefox web browser on the registered Go Card online system.

Thanks.

Regards
Robert

[ozbob]

Also the Auto top up function does not appear to be in use.  There is the framework on the Go Card 'top up' page of 'my account' for an auto, but without any clear indication as to its function it is confusing.

(Auto top up is set at a trigger level (user specified) so that when your card hits or goes below this trigger level money is taken from your chosen cc/bank account and added to your card balance.)

Contacted Translink:

Greetings,

Re Go Card.  In the online top up facility is an 'auto top up' area but it appears to be non-functional.

Can you please advise when this auto-top up will be available.

Thanks.

Regards
Robert

[ozbob]

It is now 48 hours 44 minutes since I topped up the card balance.
Still not added so still not available for travel.
This despite the documentation (web and hard copy) suggesting up to 48 hours.

[Derwan]

I think it being the weekend may something to do with it - although ideally it shouldn't.  People need to travel on the weekend too!

I fail to see why it can't be added to the card's balance immediately.  It comes off the credit card's available balance immediately, so it has been processed.  Perhaps we should be asking TransLink the question an pushing for a valid response.

I just checked and mine (processed Friday afternoon) has now gone through.  It may also have something to do with when the card is used.  It may sit in the pending area until the card is next used.  I used mine this morning but didn't take any notice of the balance on the card reader.

[ozbob]

Yes I intend to Derwan!  Just seeing how long it takes first    53 hours and still waiting ...

How could one use the card under such circumstances?  Someone would be hit for penalties because the Go Card processing is so slow?  They rip it out of your CC account straight away, it beggars belief we have to wait this long.  I plan to use the card tomorrow, so I will check tomorrow morning before and after 'touching'.



You might be right about having to touch it before it shows as the real balance on the system.  Seems rather odd though. 

The Go Card User Guide Section 1: 7 click here!

it may take up to 48 hours to process any amount you add to your card balance, so it will not be available for travel immediately.

Sent this to TL:

Greetings,

I topped up my Go Card with $20 at 8.31am on Saturday 9 Feb.  In the user guide and online where you top it up it says it may take up 48 hours for the money to be available.  It is now about 53 hours since I topped it up. (time 1.45pm on the 11th Feb) 

I think this it too long, particularly as my credit card was debited straight away. 

Thanks.

Robert

[ozbob]

60 hours since top up, still not showing online on the balance.

As Derwan suggested maybe it doesn't increment until the card is 'touched'.  This may explain the 28 day rule too (if you don't touch on within 28 days of a top up it is cancelled?)

I will check again tomorrow morning before I touch on. 

[ozbob]

Around 68 hours and still not showing on my online Go Card account balance, so it would seem that it waits until touched.  This will happen later this morning.

[ozbob]

On the Go with Go!

Travelled Oxley to Central. When I touched on at Oxley the top up was credited to the card.
So that explains that, spot on Derwan.

Went to Central, exited via one of the gates.  Took about 2 seconds to touch off and gate to open.  This appears Ok providing a lot of gates which is the normal situation at the gated (closed) stations.

I will exit from Roma St tomorrow, see how that goes.

Checked history online. Every thing in order.  Correct history and charges.
So off to good start!

As it was raining I got the loop bus (free) to Gardens Point.  I think you might have to be careful not too get to close to the card devices with your card (mine in shirt pocket so being aware is prudent I think) and inadvertently activate the touch device (10cm range). 

[Derwan]

When I touched on at Oxley the top up was credited to the card.

Checking the history, the top-up is recorded at the same time and location as the next touch-on.



Problem is, it takes up to 48 hours for the amount to become available, but you don't know whether it's available until you actually touch-on.  It should be available at next touch-on, whether it's 5 seconds, 5 hours or 5 days after topping up online.

[ozbob]

Yes, that appears to be the way it works Derwan, it doesn't load until you touch, and then one is not sure if it will load?   I guess if the auto-top up was enabled it would be fine providing you set your trigger high enough to cover travel for a couple of days or so.

12-Feb-2008 06:40 AM     Touch On        Oxley           
12-Feb-2008 06:40 AM    Top Up             Oxley    20.00    

Used the Go to get home, no problems all systems Go!

Checked card transactions - all correct.

So day 1 OK.  No transfers between trips though.

Tomorrow if I have time I will endeavour to do a couple of trips within transfer time (one hour) for a journey to see if it that works as intended.

[ozbob]

Travelled Oxley to Roma St this morning, no problems although the system touch on and touch off seemed a little slower today.  Transactions all correct!

Plan is (time permitting) on the way home travel Roma St to Oxley (zone 3 rail) then catch the 467 Windamere bus from Oxley Railway station up the hill to Canossa.  This will be interesting as Oxley is zone 3 for rail but the bus is zone 4 at Oxley.  As it is a transfer (another trip in Go Card language) and continuation of a journey within transfer time limit, and I plan to get off the bus in zone 4 it should cost the difference between a zone 3 and a zone 4 single (that is 40 cents for adult). 

[crouchg]

Did any one mention that the security certificate is signed by Cubic?

This is very poor practice you need an independent authority to sign, I would under normal circumstances say don't trust self signed "secure" websites as they may be crooks stealing your credit card details.

I mean they only had 4 years or something to get a certificate signed by a security company?

I have raised this with translink however the staff really didn't know what I was talking about.

[ozbob]

Yes, IE FF on medium security don't like it.

The thing that grates me too is the pound sign instead of a dollar if you use Firefox on the online card management.  For $134 million plus one would hope these minor glitches would be missing in action ...

Good point crouchg.  Thanks for reminding us of it.



Footnote: See this post I made on how to get FireFox to display $ click here!

[ozbob]

Continuing my trial ... Plan Citytrain Roma St to Toowong, break for 10 minutes in shopping centre (touch off then touch back on re-entry station), Toowong to Oxley.  Transfer to 467 bus for short trip.  Time between Oxley touch off and bus touch on should be about 5 minutes if all on time.

Actual:

Caught the 3.53pm from Roma St  to Toowong.  Touch on Roma St slow (about 5 seconds).  This seems slow for a busy station.

Toowong touch off time OK.

Went down to the shopping centre.  Back to catch the next up service.

Touched on, took about 11 seconds to register as 'continuation', which is correct.  This is far to slow for mass use.

Caught the next service to Oxley.  Touched off at Oxley, again slow about 6 seconds.

Then proceeded to the 467 bus.  Touched on, after some confusion with the driver.  Touched off again.  Then I touched on again.  Touched off at my stop.  Message said I was charged a zone 1 single fare.  This is incorrect as I was transferring and should just pay the continuation. Later edit:  Oxley railway station is designated as a zone 3 station (Darra is 3/4). So it appears that if you transfer to the Bus at Oxley it is in fact a new journey not a continuation    (Bus is zone 4).  This might get a few, got me initially. Not an encouragement for travel is it?  But on the plus side, one less trip to 50% discount time 



Checked transactions went I got home all rail travel OK.  Rail travel updates immediately on the system.  (Bus transaction history not yet available.)

Time will tell ...



Footnote:  So maybe another 'hidden' cost of travel with the Go Card revealed.  Say you travel from Central to Canossa Hospital (rail Central to Oxley, bus from Oxley to Canossa (3 stops), a 4 zone single paper adult costs $3.60.  Use the Go card the cost will be 3.20 + 2.30 = $5.50!  Crikey!!  After the 6 trip with the 50% discount it will be $2.75.  But to get there it has already cost you $5.50 x 6 = $33   ( a weekly 4 zone ticket costs $28.80 ).[/b]

Further Footnote:  On review of bus transactions it appears that the first  and second attempt to touch on
the bus were a transfer. But due to the malfunctions it may have reverted back to a single cost.  The TL guide specifically mentions dual zone stations re transfers.  So this is still not clear at this stage.

And I thought a little bus ride from Oxley station to Canossa would be simple!   

[Zoiks]

...about 5...6seconds...11 seconds to register...
What a load of rubbish. These things should be a second MAX
Considering all it is doing in sending a few bytes of data each way down a fibre optic cable it should be near instantaneous.

[ozbob]

Slow and clunky, there is no way with these times it will handle the batch processing of hundreds of Go Card enabled rail passengers.

I agree Zoiks,  seems most unsatisfactory ...

The bus response times touch off and touch on seemed fine, except for initial touch on.

[ozbob]

Might try to go on a CityCat tomorrow too, to see how that goes with Go!

[ozbob]

My bus transactions are now available. Just got off the phone to TL.  I was charged two additional amounts (penalties) when the card was touched on and off on the bus.  Seems a problem with the reader on the bus,  I can expect a refund within 10 days!   If you touch on and then touch off within 20 minutes correct operation is to cancel not charge.

To cancel a journey after you have touched on, wait 10 seconds and touch your card again at the same bus or ferry stop (on board the service) or rail station within 20 minutes. The card reader will display a message showing that no fare was deducted and the available balance remaining on your go card.

From: http://www.translink.com.au/qt/TransLin.nsf/index/go_travelling#q4

The transaction history is interesting:

13-Feb-2008 04:43 PM     Touch Off     Pannard Street - 71 [BT010836]         
13-Feb-2008 04:36 PM    Touch On    Oxley Station A [BT005371]         
13-Feb-2008 04:35 PM    Touch Off    Oxley Station A [BT005371]       
13-Feb-2008 04:35 PM    Touch On    Oxley Station A [BT005371]         
13-Feb-2008 04:33 PM    Touch Off    Oxley Station A [BT005371]        
13-Feb-2008 04:33 PM    Touch On Transfer    Oxley Station A [BT005371]         
13-Feb-2008 04:33 PM    Cancel Touch On    Oxley Station A [BT005371]         
13-Feb-2008 04:32 PM    Touch On Transfer    Oxley Station A [BT005371]         
13-Feb-2008 04:29 PM    Touch Off    Oxley    
13-Feb-2008 04:08 PM    Touch On Transfer    Toowong         
13-Feb-2008 04:02 PM    Touch Off    Toowong    
13-Feb-2008 03:47 PM    Touch On    Roma Street

Go with Go!   

I was charged for the pleasure of sitting in the bus at Oxley railway station.

Hope this is not a sign for the future ...

[Mozz]

Bob I wish you the best of british with your quest, you have much more patience with this process than I would have

[haakon]

Checked transactions went I got home all rail travel OK.  Rail travel updates immediately on the system.  (Bus transaction history not yet available.)

I wonder if the Cubic Bus Card reader being autonomous is the reason for the "up to 48hr to top up" issue. If you have someone who only takes buses their credit update would have to be downloaded to all the autonomous readers at the start of the day and then transaction record fed back to the central system at the end of the day/shift.

[ozbob]

Yes, based on experiences so far this system would appear not to be ready for mass roll out.

[ozbob]

Touched on the eastern end of Oxley platform this morning.  At 11 seconds I moved the card slightly and the light came on at about 15 seconds.  Maybe there is an optimal card position? 

The device at the eastern end of the platform is very exposed and the plastic on the touch area is very faded.  This should not be a problem though.  The other two touch devices at Oxley are under shelter at the western end of the platform (one near stairs, one adjacent to lift).

Touching off at gate at Roma St was < 1 second.  So that was good!

Checked transactions all OK this morning trip.

[ozbob]

I have now done six trips on the card since Monday, and confirmed on transaction history.
All trips now should be 50% of the single cost.

Looking forward to my CityCat voyage this afternoon !

[Derwan]

Touched on the eastern end of Oxley platform this morning.  At 11 seconds I moved the card slightly and the light came on at about 15 seconds.  Maybe there is an optimal card position?

At first I moved the card around like I was using a barcode scanner.  As I've become used to it, I can now reach forward and have touched on/off by the time I get level with the reader, so I don't need to stop (unless I want to check the fare or balance).

I have my card in the back section of my wallet and just hold my wallet above the reader.

Perhaps there is a problem with the reader at Oxley.

[ozbob]

Thanks Derwan, I think if you hold it flat it might work better than at an angle.  I will try that.

Advice received from Translink re pound sign

With regard to the ? (pound) symbol display on the Smart Card Web Site,
this is a known issues that only occurs when using Firefox browser. The
issue lies with web browser regional settings.  Customers needs to change
their web browser settings to resole the problem.

See this post I made on how to get FireFox to display $ click here!

Also advice received from Translink re 28 day:

Customers are required to touch on within 28 days after a (web) directed
autoload as after this time, the autoload expires in the system and the
funds are returned to the card (ie. customers credit card). This is a
financial policy decision that was made to ensure that if a customer fails
to collect their autolaod their funds are returned.

Further 48-hour and auto load advice from Translink:

When adding value to your go card on-line it can take up to 48 hours, but
on average 24 hours, for the funds to register on your card. Rail services
are in constant communication with the system and top-ups (add values) can
be applied on rail to cards within 24 hours of the customer topping up
funds. Buses are not in constant communication with the system and must
return to depot to upload information, including top-ups (add values) from
the depot computer. Not all buses return to depot each day and therefore
TransLink advises customers to allow for UP TO 48-hours to receive bus
top-up amounts.

Furthermore top-ups may take up to 48-hours because money cannot be applied
to the card until the funds have been cleared at the bank. This is a third
party (bank) time-frame for funds clearing and system processing. If you
require instant top-up you can add-value to your go card at a new TransLink
Fare Machine or at a Queensland Rail ticket office.  Shortly, you will also
be able to establish auto top-up on your card.  Much like direct debit,
once your card balance reaches $0.00 a nominated amount is taken from a
preselected account and your card balance is automatically topped up, you
simply set and forget!

Thanks for getting back to me Translink 

I think the autoload will be a very useful feature, hope though that you can set a trigger limit higher than zero if the balance is not immediately updated.

[ozbob]

I have topped up balance again on line  - time of top up 10.53 am 14 Feb.

See how long this one takes as during the week.

[Derwan]

I have topped up balance again on line  - time of top up 10.53 am 14 Feb.

See how long this one takes as during the week.

I have a feeling that it won't be when you catch the Citycat, but will be when you catch a train.

[ozbob]

Yes, may well be Derwan.  Not having caught a Citycat for a while I am not sure if the touch devices are on the catamaran or on dock side.

This afternoon, plan is to get the CityCat from QUT Gardens Point, around to Riverside.  Then walk to Central Station, and then rail  to Oxley.   I will be within the 1 hour transfer time limit between touch off on the cat and touch on at Central.

As this will be my 7th journey looking forward to a 50% fare reduction 

[ozbob]

Caught the CityCat as planned.

The external (forward) touch  device not working, I tried when I boarded. Crew said they are all pretty much the same due to the wet conditions they undergo from time to time.  Guess they are designed more for buses.  Internal devices fine in the cabin , touched on there.   Nice little trip down the river Gardens Point QUT to Riverside.

Touched off  correct fare charged - 50% of zone 1 single.

Walked to Central, touched on - continuation.

Caught the Citytrain to Oxley touched off and correct fare charged  - difference between 50 % zone 3 single and amount already paid.

Used the card flat on all readers, this seem to give quick responses, both on the catamaran and railway station.

The other interesting thing was that the top up I made earlier today was credited at touch on on the CityCat.  Good!

14-Feb-2008 04:04 PM    Touch Off     Oxley   
14-Feb-2008 03:29 PM    Touch On Transfer    Central         
14-Feb-2008 03:03 PM    Touch Off    Riverside [6673]    
14-Feb-2008 02:55 PM    Touch On    QUT (Gardens Point) [6679]         
14-Feb-2008 02:55 PM    Top Up    QUT (Gardens Point) [6679]    

So a successful day out and about with Go.





Photograph: R Dow 14 Feb 2008

And a coalie happened on by as I walked down the street after arrival at Oxley 




Photograph: R Dow 14 Feb 2008

The grassy area on the left of the photo is where the third line will be going (Corinda to Darra triplication  project --> http://backontrack.org/mbs/index.php?topic=225.0 )

[ozbob]

Summary so far:

Fare structure to one side, the card does offer a lot of potential.

1.  Of concern is the apparent programming problems with incorrect penalties being debited to card as happened to me on the 467 bus earlier this week.  This has been reported elsewhere as well.  People using unregistered cards particularly, may not be aware that incorrect debits have been made.  For those who actively monitor their registered cards online they will pick it up if they miss it at touch.  Others I am not so sure ...

2.  Reimbursement of incorrect debits can take up to 10 days.  This is a long time for someone who may not have ready financial resources.

3.  Some touch on and touch off actions have taken up to 15 seconds. Clearly this would present problems at busy locations. There appears to be a benefit of quicker action at touch of presenting cards flat to readers?  Still playing with this.

4.  Better explanations are required of how the online top up and auto load (when activated) operate.  See the responses from TL above, these could be incorporated into the online FAQ for the card.

5.  The resolution of the incorrect display of the $ sign with FireFox (now very widely used too) at online Go Card management should be added to the FAQ.

6.  It appears that some of the card equipment on the river transport is not fit for purpose (not designed for outdoor/marine use).  Unless this addressed, as Go Card uptake increases it could present problems on the vessels for Go Card users.

If the FU fare was made more equitable with respect to integrated paper ticketing it would be a great benefit to our public transport. I intend to keep using the card as an extended trial.  Overall I have enjoyed using the card so far, fare structure not withstanding!

[ozbob]

Travelled Citytrain Oxley to Central this morning.

Touch on at Oxley < 1 second (card flat)

Touch off at Central < 1 second (card flat).

Looking good!

[T.H. Fro]

On the topic of the SSL certificate used by the Cubic web site (denotes the HTTPS part of the address https://www.seqits.com.au/webtix/), this certificate expires on the 9th March 2008.

If they reissue a self signed certificate, they will save themselves about $200 AUD.

[ozbob]

Thanks T H Fro!

Welcome 

[ozbob]

Journey home, touch on Central < 1 second (card flat)

Touch off Oxley < 1 second (card flat).

Seems the rail Go Card system is rocking along very well!