New Western Region Services

[haakon]

My current bus the 510 is being axed completely. However the portion that I use is being taken over by either the 502 or the 503. Can't remember which. Either way, the local bus driver has been keeping me in the loop.

[somebody]

You mean the 512 would run from Riverlink - Ipswich (Bell St) - Brisbane St - Burnett St - Albion St - Hunter St and then on to the current 504 terminus?  Doesn't make much sense to me.  If that is correct (and it looks like it might be) then north of the river is really getting screwed, and unnecessarily too because there is to be a different route to serve Woodend/Coalfalls.

[ozbob]

This obviously is an aspect that needs highlighting and correcting.  Plus the arrangements for flexi-link.  Bit of pressure coming locally as well.

TransLink are out on consultation this week.  I think the feedback will be direct.

[STB]

Just noticed that some of the HTML timetables are available.  I'm going through each one to find out which routes have been updated and which one's are yet to be updated.

[STB]

Okay.  From what I can gather...

The new Route 463 timetable is updated (Forest Lake to Goodna) http://jp.translink.com.au/travel-information/services-and-timetables/buses/view-bus-timetable/2373?timetableDate=2010-12-17&direction=Inbound&routeCode=463

Route 500 (Riverlink to Goodna) - http://jp.translink.com.au/travel-information/services-and-timetables/buses/view-bus-timetable/2372?timetableDate=2010-12-17&direction=Outbound&routeCode=500

Route 502 (Riverlink to Bundamaba TAFE) - http://jp.translink.com.au/travel-information/services-and-timetables/buses/view-bus-timetable/2379?timetableDate=2010-12-17&direction=Inbound&routeCode=502

Routes 504, 505 and 510 have now disappeared - the deleted routes.

Other routes yet to be updated.

[ozbob]

From the Queensland Times click here!

Bus changes discussed at meeting

Bus changes discussed at meeting

17th November 2010

A MEETING to discuss changes to Ipswich bus services will be held today at North Ipswich.

Transport Minister Rachel Nolan recently announced an overhaul of the public transport system would result in Ipswich people having access to more Sunday bus services and new connections to Springfield and Willowbank.

But the gains will come at the expense of several existing bus routes – the 505 covering the suburbs of Moores Pocket and Tivoli being one of them.

Ipswich Councillor Cheryl Bromage, whose division takes in Tivoli, said she had been contacted by numerous residents who were concerned about the transport restructure.

"The residents feel like they want someone to advocate on their behalf," Cr Bromage said.

The meeting will be held at Browns Park at 29 Downs Street, from 3pm.

[Sunbus610]

It looks like there are some brand new FlexiLink service being added to these Western Region services improvements too:-
http://timetables.translink.com.au/travel-information/services-and-timetables/buses/flexilink

[somebody]

A Flexilink service which doesn't run on Sundays and cuts out at 4pm on Sat, more importantly 6:30pm on weekdays is hardly attractive.

[STB]

Have just come from the Ipswich Western Region services launch and while I can see why they wanted to pull the Tivoli/Moores Pocket 505 with it having less than 7 passengers per trip, I can also see that there is a social justice issue with the retirement village needing a bus service. 

I suggested perhaps copying the 'Your Bus' service that Gold Coast City Council is funding for that area.  At least it would be a semi scheduled service on the way back to Moores Pocket/Tivoli than having to make a phone call each time you wanted to return on top of ringing up to book a taxi to head to Ipswich, which they will need to do by 3pm the previous day they want to use the Flexilink taxi service.

[somebody]

Have just come from the Ipswich Western Region services launch and while I can see why they wanted to pull the Tivoli/Moores Pocket 505 with it having less than 7 passengers per trip, I can also see that there is a social justice issue with the retirement village needing a bus service. 

I suggested perhaps copying the 'Your Bus' service that Gold Coast City Council is funding for that area.  At least it would be a semi scheduled service on the way back to Moores Pocket/Tivoli than having to make a phone call each time you wanted to return on top of ringing up to book a taxi to head to Ipswich, which they will need to do by 3pm the previous day they want to use the Flexilink taxi service.

Even so, I'm not sure why the 512 should run from Riverlink via Ipswich stn and Coalfalls to Brassal though.  Seems like it would make more sense to run from Ipswich stn via Riverlink and North Ipswich to Brassal.  Coalfalls has alternative services, although we are unsure of the routing.  May be best to reserve judgement, I guess.

Does the midi bus or coaster idea have merit for routes in the Western Region?  Seems like it might.

I think the flexilink service should operate on Sunday and with better hours on a weekday though if that is their PT service.

[ozbob]

From the Queensland Times click here!

Bus overhaul upsetting residents

Bus overhaul upsetting residents

Andrew Korner | 19th November 2010

TRANSLINK is facing a growing backlash from Ipswich residents angered by a huge overhaul of the region's bus services.

Although new services have been promised in some areas, the decision to axe the 505, 510 and 523 routes from December 13 will leave parts of the city without buses.

There were angry scenes at a meeting called in North Ipswich to discuss the changes and bus users have also voiced their frustrations at TransLink information sessions held across the area.

But yesterday Transport Minister and Ipswich MP Rachel Nolan insisted the services did not offer value for money.

"The three services that are being removed cost $1.1 million a year to operate and average less than two people on every trip," Ms Nolan said.

"That's just not a waste of taxpayers' money that can be justified."

Some 40 residents confronted TransLink staff in a meeting at Browns Park called by city councillor Cheryl Bromage

North Ipswich resident Louise Fullarton told the meeting that even a limited bus service would have been preferable to no bus service at all.

"You have thought this out beforehand and not given any consideration to us, the people who have to live here," she told TransLink representatives Sally Stannard and Andrew Berkmann.

Areas which have lost bus services have been promised access to a Flexilink taxi service. This would allow residents to book a cab for $2 into central Ipswich.

But there are fears the city's cabs will not be able to cope with the increased demand and the cost of using the service would be greater than the fares now charged for bus journeys.

TransLink strategy director Ms Stannard said she understood the community's concerns, but the Flexilink arrangement would mean that Yellow Cabs would have to provide a reliable service or face losing the contract.

"As a taxi customer you would normally not have anyone to stand up for you, but in this situation you've got us," she said.

"We expect to deliver some good outcomes."

TransLink also held three meetings in Ipswich yesterday – at Orion Springfield, the Ipswich library and Redbank Plaza – where staff were met with more frustrated passengers.

Benjamin Thompson, 24, a regular bus user from Eastern Heights, was at the library meeting and said he could not understand why the changes were made without consultation.

"I don't know why they have changed it," Mr Thompson said.

Dorothy Weatherburn, of Karalee, said there were many people who felt TransLink had not done its homework before putting in the changes.

Southern Cross Transit managing director Frank Oliveri said that TransLink failed "to think outside the square" when it planned the changes.

Mr Oliveri, whose company is responsible for several school runs around Ipswich, said TransLink could have saved money by pooling school bus services.

"The only bus companies that are consulted are those that are contracted to TransLink," Mr Oliveri said.

"They choose to ignore the other resources available."

Councillor Cheryl Bromage said she had compiled a list of complaints from residents to pass on to TransLink.

"I myself have concerns about the taxis," she said. "Can they provide the level of service that TransLink claims?

"We all know how hard it can be to get a taxi in Ipswich."

TransLink will hold another information session from 9am-1pm today at Riverlink Shopping Centre.

KEY CHANGES

Buses will run daily on 12 additional routes providing Sunday and public holiday services to many areas for the first time.

There will be new connections to Springfield and Willowbank.

A whole new timetable for existing services as well as new bus stops for 82 locations.

Routes 505, 510 and 523 will be axed, with a $2 taxi service replacing buses.

[#Metro]

They should seek to introduce the taxi service ASAP. Even if this means putting it on top of the current bus system and having an overlap for a short period. If there are areas where buses will be removed and not replaced, they should be covered by flexilink.

[Stillwater]

Translink should do more to explain the availability of FlexiLink and how it works.  That would take some of the hysteria out of the debate.  And ALL FlexiLink services should be integrated with the Translink journey planner so that they become just another option for getting about.  Leaflets in letterboxes are good for informing people initially, but full integration with the journey planner would help lift patronage.  Who knows, if sufficient people use FlexiLink, their maxi-taxi could become a regular bus!

[#Metro]

Any existing street bus stops ( I doubt if there are any, but just in case) should also be FlexiLink taxi collection points rather than be removed.

[ozbob]

From the Queensland Times click here!

Commuters voice bus anger

Commuters voice bus anger

Zane Jackson | 20th November 2010

IPSWICH bus commuters who have had their services scrapped under a new timetable shake-up vented their frustrations at an information session yesterday.

Sally Stannard, from Translink, speaks with Bundamba resident Greg Thomas who is unhappy about changes to bus services. Ms Stannard says the changes will take time to get used to.
Sarah Harvey

IPSWICH bus commuters who have had their services scrapped under a new timetable shake-up vented their frustrations at an information session yesterday.

Despite the new timetable delivering more services, destinations and Sunday buses, some commuters are angry their buses have been taken away to be replaced with a taxi service.

Patrons of the axed 505, 510 and 523 routes raised their concerns at a TransLink community meeting at Riverlink yesterday, the fourth such meeting this week.

More people turned up for the session than originally anticipated, forcing it to be moved away from the shopping centre's bus area to the food court, where a security guard stood with TransLink staff.

Ingrid Kadir, 70, said she was wary of the taxi replacement plan, which would see commuters book 24 hours in advance and pay $2 for a taxi to take them to a range of selected stops.

"I used to catch the bus regularly. I want my bus back," the Bundamba resident said.

"There are more houses being built and more people moving to the area. I don't know why the buses are going."

East Ipswich resident Audrey Steele said she was willing to give the Flexilink taxi service a chance, but said it had to work efficiently.

"There are a lot of retired people in the area. If the new system doesn't work well, we won't be happy," she said.

Greg Thomas, of Bundamba, said he would miss the freedom of hopping on the bus when he felt like it, without booking in advance.

"I'm not very happy with what's happened," he said.

TransLink's Strategy and Planning director Sally Stannard, who was at the information sessions, said she knew people would be upset by the changes.

She said it was TransLink's job to give commuters the right information and to explain the benefits of the new timetables.

She also said a similar taxi service had worked in the Gold Coast, Sunshine Coast and Brisbane.

"That's what we're trying to tell people – that it does work in other places. They just need the right information," she said. "People need time to get used to it."

Earlier this week Transport Minister and Ipswich MP Rachel Nolan said the scrapped services did not offer value for money for taxpayers.

Under the changes, buses will run daily on 12 additional routes, providing Sunday and public holiday services to many areas for the first time.

There will be new connections to Springfield and Willowbank as well as 82 new bus stops.

The new timetable comes into effect on December 13 and will be trialled for 12 months.

[somebody]

I didn't know you had to book the taxi 24 hours in advance.  That's not cool.

[mufreight]

Add to the pre booking time the fact that based upon the present track record of the selected taxi operator of waits between a half and two hours for a taxi in this area there is no factor of reliability and an effective fare increase of 180% for a single zone journey.
Have a pensioner grandmother near neighbour who has 5 grandchildren who once a month stop with her for the weekend and who takes them on an outing such as to Southbank or the local Queens Park who is now faced with an additional impost of $24 for the kids outing in fares, that amounts to more than she has to spend for two days food, should she stop eating for two days a month to afford the outing with her grandchildren or should the grandchildren be denied their day out with Granny for some bureaucrats incompetent exercise in social engineering to save costs.
Governments are elected to provide services not to justify a pyramid scheme to increase the numbers of otherwise unemployable seat polishers by degrading the levels of services at increased cost.

[#Metro]

"That's what we're trying to tell people – that it does work in other places. They just need the right information," she said. "People need time to get used to it."

It needs to go into the Journey Planner automatically!!!

[somebody]

On demand services cannot be put into the journey planner as far as I can see.

Yes, the lack of a seniors discount seems to be a bit of a problem, if true.  I don't know that taxis can have go card readers installed.

[STB]

I didn't know you had to book the taxi 24 hours in advance.  That's not cool.

I thought I mentioned that in an earlier post?  Anyway, I overheard at the info session that they need to book the taxi by 3pm the day before to go to Ipswich, if they need to return they must give the time that they wish to return when they book the taxi the day before.

One major downside of that, plans can change suddenly, especially with elderly residents accessing the hospital.  The taxi will not go to the hospital, they must then change from the taxi to route 515 and vice versa on return, so $4 ($2 there, $2 back, plus the fare $1.04 there and $1.04 back by the sounds of it).

[ozbob]

All the labor MPs in the general Ipswich area will probably loose their seats at the next election, be it state or federal.  They are greatly under estimating the damage all this is doing IMHO.   Extraordinary for what was considered labor heartland.  It is not only the bus issue but this is the one that has broken the camel's back ...

[somebody]

All the labor MPs in the general Ipswich area will probably loose their seats at the next election, be it state or federal.  They are greatly under estimating the damage all this is doing IMHO.   Extraordinary for what was considered labor heartland.  It is not only the bus issue but this is the one that has broken the camel's back ...

Wow.  That would be surprising because the train timetable seems to be much improved for Ipswich, although not taking the opportunity to abolish the shuttles to Rosewood, at least largely, seems to be something of a missed opportunity.

[mufreight]

All the labor MPs in the general Ipswich area will probably loose their seats at the next election, be it state or federal.  They are greatly under estimating the damage all this is doing IMHO.   Extraordinary for what was considered labor heartland.  It is not only the bus issue but this is the one that has broken the camel's back ...

Wow.  That would be surprising because the train timetable seems to be much improved for Ipswich, although not taking the opportunity to abolish the shuttles to Rosewood, at least largely, seems to be something of a missed opportunity.

To abolish the Rosewood rail shuttles would be another nail in the coffin of the current incompetent transport Minister and one would have to question the mental capacity of any transport planner promoting such an idea.
Transport planners are by definition supposedly to plan for the transport needs of the future.
At the present time the numbers of commuters on these services is steadily growing, largely due to increasing area population and the numbers of local commuters into the Ipswich CBD, the point has been reached where the numbers of local commuters now exceeds the numbers of through passengers to or from destinations to the east of Ipswich.
Were the transport planners planing for transport needs both current and future rather than bean counting they would be advocating the immediate extension of the electrification to Grandchester and the extension of services to there as an interim measure until such time as a new alignment and tunnel is constructed through the Little Liverpool Range to enable the electrification and passenger services to be extended to Gatton or Helidon rather than the withdrawal of services, be they rail or bus.

[Stillwater]

Mufreight raises an interesting point that has been exercising my mind of late.

The current draft new timetable has been dumped out there without being placed in any context.  Imagine if a government decreed out of the blue that all shoes shall be sold as pairs of two left shoes and two right shoes, without explanation or reasoning.

We hear talk of the need for governments to have 'narratives'.  The transport minister needs to place this timetable change in some sort of context and against some sort of timeline.  She needs to say that the government's objective, is for train frequency of x on this line by such-and-such a date, y on that line and z on the other and that this timetable is an interim measure, to be reviewed in so many years time (months for lines other than Ips-Cab) in order to reach the ultimate objective.

The government needs to let us into its thinking a bit more.  (Before someone says doesn't Connecting SEQ 2031 do that, well, it doesn't.  It just says the government would like to see certain things happen by 2031.  None of the current pollies will be around then.  The government needs to work backwards .... if THIS is to happen in 2026, what needs to happen in 2013 or 2014 to ensure that 2026 target is met.  Costs need to be settled and a budget worked up.  Much of Connecting SEQ is unfunded.)

[somebody]

Sorry, I phrased that poorly.  I meant abolishing the Rosewood shuttles in favour of through services.  Why are there few (and soon to be fewer) through services?

[mufreight]

Sorry, I phrased that poorly.  I meant abolishing the Rosewood shuttles in favour of through services.  Why are there few (and soon to be fewer) through services?

The logistics of that one are simple, as the proportion of the numbers of commuters using these services for a commute to the Ipswich CBD increases in comparison to the numbers of commuters doing through journeys there is a lessening in the need for through services which are operated with six car trains.
Couple this with the safety factor created by all of the platforms being presently only able to accommodate a three car train set the cost effectiveness of operating a shuttle rather than a through service becomes apparent as it effectively releases a six car train set to operate other services in the peaks
Of note the lack of comment on the subject of the extension of rail commuter services further west.

[somebody]

Of note the lack of comment on the subject of the extension of rail commuter services further west.

I have no knowledge of that, so I would prefer not to comment.  Two buses/day/direction requiring two changes to get to the city seems a pretty lousy service though.

Regarding the Rosewood trains, what additional costs would a half hourly through service entail?  You can easily lock the back 3 cars west of Ipswich.  It requires the same number of crews, as a lot of crew's time is wasted in doing the turns.  Perhaps slightly simplistic as there are, no doubt, rules regarding limits to time at the controls.  You don't need any more sets if you use a 3 car shuttle at the critical point for rollingstock, whenever that is.  Other than that the only additional costs I see are additional electricity.

[Arnz]

"Zero Harm" requires 2 guards and 1 driver (3 crew) on 6-car services passing through short platforms (Tennyson and Rosewood).   The 2nd guard is required to lock up the back 3 cars and usher any passengers into the front 3 cars.

[somebody]

"Zero Harm" requires 2 guards and 1 driver (3 crew) on 6-car services passing through short platforms (Tennyson and Rosewood).   The 2nd guard is required to lock up the back 3 cars and usher any passengers into the front 3 cars.

Forgot about that.  It's union crap isn't it?

[Golliwog]

Couldn't you just have a crew member or two (depending on the frequency of the Rosewood run) who hop on at Ipswich to do the short platform section to Rosewood and return and hop off again at Ipswich to get the next on back out again?

[Gazza]

The transport minister needs to place this timetable change in some sort of context and against some sort of timeline.  She needs to say that the government's objective, is for train frequency of x on this line by such-and-such a date, y on that line and z on the other and that this timetable is an interim measure, to be reviewed in so many years time (months for lines other than Ips-Cab) in order to reach the ultimate objective.

EXACTLY!

If I go to one of these timetable consultations I'm going to ask one of the planners "I know we might not have sufficient trains to run a 15 minute service all day, but what is the exact number of trains that would be needed to do this at the fleet utilisation level wanted, and at what point does QR expect its fleet to reach the size required?"

Surely someone has sat down and worked this out hypothetically?

Re Rosewood, cant they just do some bare minimum platform extension?

Were the transport planners planing for transport needs both current and future rather than bean counting they would be advocating the immediate extension of the electrification to Grandchester and the extension of services to there as an interim measure

Look at the town though 
http://maps.google.com.au/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=grandchester&sll=-27.543537,152.952957&sspn=0.054413,0.132093&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Grandchester+Queensland&ll=-27.659555,152.466781&spn=0.006794,0.016512&t=h&z=17
Nobody would catch a train, not enough people! Plus they'd all own cars if they were living out there, so they can drive to Rosewood (And I'd say the energy expended by that car use would be a fraction of running a largely empty electric train out there)
Again, I'm all for better PT, but expending that sort of money to serve a small settlement saps money away from providing better services in places where people will use it.

Plus if you're looking to serve Toowoomba with electric passenger services in the long term you wouldn't want to slow them down by stopping in tiny settlements that just happen to be by the rail line.
Just looking at the line from Toowoomba to Ipswich it does look nice and straight, save for the Lt Liverpool Range and a silly looking bit near Grantham.....Could get up to some nice speeds if the kept stops to a minimum.

[cartoonbirdhaus]

Just looking at the line from Toowoomba to Ipswich it does look nice and straight, save for the Lt Liverpool Range and a silly looking bit near Grantham

And let's not forget the most obvious sticking point: the stretch between Helidon and Toowoomba! 40-odd km, compared to the Warrego Hwy being 21 km or so between the same.

[Gazza]

^Ah well, that's the obvious one isn't it.

Have actually wondered if Toowoomba were to get pax services if they should just build a big park and ride station at the bottom of the range in addition to the main station in Toowoomba. Could just short cut down there in the car, and then have a nice quick trip into the city without having to go through traversing the range by train.

[somebody]

^Ah well, that's the obvious one isn't it.

Have actually wondered if Toowoomba were to get pax services if they should just build a big park and ride station at the bottom of the range in addition to the main station in Toowoomba. Could just short cut down there in the car, and then have a nice quick trip into the city without having to go through traversing the range by train.

This has been done to death IMO.  Perhaps not here.

There is no way that a new Toowoomba range crossing is cost effective for pax services, and not for freight services either, without shoe-horning some extra trains onto the range.  The railway from Melbourne doesn't need to go via Toowoomba for any reason that any of us can see.  If the new Dawson Valley link goes in a substantial portion of the coalies will get off the range also.

As for pax services, in what world would anything Translink provide be superior to the unsubsidised commercial bus service?  It's cheap and frequent.

[justanotheruser]

Thanks for posting this.  Otherwise occupied with a tour of Nambour at this time.



This is a good general move forwards. Delighted that these improvements have been announced.  It has been difficult out west for a while, mainly because timetables etc.  did not keep pace with the horrible road congestion etc.

This is only a small move forwards in my opinion and does not take into consideration road congestion. I currently catch a 503 two days a week and it can wait a total of 10 minutes between two intersections! There is no reflection of this in the new timetable therefore the problem of late running buses will continue. With the 503 service now taking on part of the cancelled 510 route this will affect even more people.

When picking up the timetables I did ask the translink staff if the new times were developed by travelling on the buses to find out about the local traffic conditions or was it just done by some person sitting in an airconditioned office with a computer that says a bus should travel a certain distance in a given time. Their silence was not reassuring.

One other problem with the timetables is why is it a bus that goes through three school zones meaning it reduces speed by 20kph and also gets plenty of school kids getting on and off meaning more stops have the same amount of time to do the run as the bus on the same route in the middle of the day with most people getting on and off at two stops and the bus travelling full speed? Logic tells you it simply is not possible.

I have also had bus drive tell me that at (or near) redbank plains some buses are being redirected up a hill that several westside buses do not have the power to go up. (I have noticed some of the buses have far less grunt than others) This too could be a problem.

In short if your holding your breath for these changes to make the buses run on time then you should book your funeral now.

And by the looks of things while reading through these changes, the Western Region to get it's first semi-BUZ route, route 515 upgraded from every 30mins currently to every 15mins all day everyday.

This is not as straight forward as it seems. It will now go from Brasell to Yamanto. Previously it operated betwen Riverlink and UQ on monday to Friday and between Ipswich Hospital and Rail museum on wekends. The new map is not clear on if it still stops at the museum and I did not grab one of those timetables.

[justanotheruser]

I'm amused to see the route I use hasn't been touched (510), it is great to see a large revamp of the bus network in the Ipswich region however.

um it has been touched in that they are getting rid of it and using two other bus routes and the taxi service to cover the run.

[ozbob]

Some good news.  The flexi-link fare for concession will now be one dollar.

Thanks!

===================

From the Queensland Times 23rd November 2010 page 7

Bus shake-up is fair



Now online click here!

[Sunbus610]

Nice http://www.translink.com.au/resources/travel-information/service-updates/101213-ipswich-guide.pdf

[ozbob]

Nice http://www.translink.com.au/resources/travel-information/service-updates/101213-ipswich-guide.pdf

Concession fare for flexilink is to be one dollar.  This doesn't seem to be in the guide ..

[justanotheruser]

Have just come from the Ipswich Western Region services launch and while I can see why they wanted to pull the Tivoli/Moores Pocket 505 with it having less than 7 passengers per trip, I can also see that there is a social justice issue with the retirement village needing a bus service. 

I suggested perhaps copying the 'Your Bus' service that Gold Coast City Council is funding for that area.  At least it would be a semi scheduled service on the way back to Moores Pocket/Tivoli than having to make a phone call each time you wanted to return on top of ringing up to book a taxi to head to Ipswich, which they will need to do by 3pm the previous day they want to use the Flexilink taxi service.

Even so, I'm not sure why the 512 should run from Riverlink via Ipswich stn and Coalfalls to Brassal though.  Seems like it would make more sense to run from Ipswich stn via Riverlink and North Ipswich to Brassal.  Coalfalls has alternative services, although we are unsure of the routing.  May be best to reserve judgement, I guess.

Does the midi bus or coaster idea have merit for routes in the Western Region?  Seems like it might.

I think the flexilink service should operate on Sunday and with better hours on a weekday though if that is their PT service.

Well there are two different services to brassall that terminate at different spots at brassall. In the new arrangements there will continue to be two services to brassall that terminate at different spots. So I'm not exactly sure what the problem is. They serve different areas of brassall. If they were going to the same place then it would make sense but the only common stops are Ipswich station, Riverlink shops and brassall shopping centre.