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New Western Region Services

Started by STB, November 03, 2010, 14:40:49 PM

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ozbob

Heading out to Ipswich later today.  Have my little bag of gold coins ...    :bo
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ozbob

#201
Outbound EMU43,  might try to get to Moores Pocket/Tivoli on the flexi-link bus substitution, according to the Minister's statement cabs are running the bus timetable ...  next due 12.10pm.  Goodna, the 'brownfield' footbridge is looking great!   :P
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ozbob

Detailed report to follow.  Presently at Ippy rail heading home.

Arrived at Ippy and asked two TL reps at the go exit where do I catch the 505?  Correctly answered, 'Sir, see that sign over there the maxi taxi will collect you .. '

Pass

Move over to stop 1 Bell Street.  Nothing much there except a gent arrived, with a Christmas hat and wearing a Bus Queensland shirt and guided the lost souls.

Maxi taxi arrived and departed as per the 505 schedule.  Travelled all the way to Moore's Pocket with the driver and TL Staff rep and back again, no pax joined.

Took some pics. The cab was signed correctly, and according to the TL staff rep was going well.

My own observations was that yes, the flexi-link is working. But I think there is still room to move with perhaps some regular services in  the peaks.  The outer reaches of Ipswich are very nice places, houses grand and clean air!

The bus stops in Bell Street have been correctly signed (albeit with temporary signs) but the punters are starting to get with the changes.

Change is tough, but (Hey a down coalie is passing through .. Yee  haaa platform 4.. ) I am on platform one, SMU 249 has just arrived, chariot home ...
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ozbob

#203
Coalie waiting in platform 4 as we departed Ippy.   See, coalies are mixed up in the peaks.  The coalie will tail the train I am on ..  no issues will trail nicely this SMU ...

Some TOs have boarded at East Ipswich, checked tickets and cards ..

Late ed.  Between Booval and Bundamba just passed an UP coalie ....
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Stillwater


Hey Ozbob.  The traditional older suburbs of Ipswich are filled with lovely old Queenslanders and tree-lined streets.  Did the FlexiLink maxi-taxi in which you travelled to the 'burbs have any FlexiLink or TransLink livery, or was it a plain old maxi-taxi?

somebody

Makes a mockery of the excuses about it being too hard to run freight if we improve the pax service.

Perhaps it should be too hard to pay their salaries, if they think it's too hard to improve service levels.

Stillwater

Perhaps their salaries should be paid through the Health Department payroll system.  :D

mufreight

Quote from Queensland Times article Tuesday 14th December.

Despite some commuter unease, TransLink director of Strategy and Planning Sally Stannard said about 100 people had used the FlexiLink service up to yesterday afternoon.

On the basis of this result the Senior management from Translink and the intransegent Transport Minister Nolan should be writing their resignations and empting their desks.

The statement that about 100 people had used the Flexilink service up until the afternoon and attempting to spin this as a success is another attempt to manupilate the figures.

Assuming that the figure given by Ms Stannard related to the 505 route substitution up until 3pm in the afternoon the bus service that the Flexilink has replaced would have run some 10 inbound services and 9 outbound and based upon a physical count of passengers on the previous Monday on that route which averaged some 7+ per service would have carried some 133 passengers.

Based on these figures the Translink Flexilink service has effectively detered some 33 passengers from traveling, a drop of 25% in passenger numbers and Translink attempts to spin this as a success.

The only way that this could be construed as a success would be if it was the intent of Translink to deter public transport usage to justify their withdrawal of services.


#Metro

Mufreight, I really like the way you can cut through the spin so effortlessly.  :-t
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Golliwog

Quote
Assuming that the figure given by Ms Stannard related to the 505 route substitution up until 3pm in the afternoon the bus service that the Flexilink has replaced would have run some 10 inbound services and 9 outbound and based upon a physical count of passengers on the previous Monday on that route which averaged some 7+ per service would have carried some 133 passengers.

A dubious assumption I would think. I would think it would be across the board for flexilink. Also, taking an average across an entire day and applying it to all services until 3pm is kinda dodgey. No matter how you look at it buses record higher patronage during the peaks which raises the average. By 3pm you havn't yet had the evening peak which would drop your figure of 133 during the day a bit. Also you take a one week sample (you were taking the physical count done by the Ipswich citizen?) which would not be statistically significant in the scheme of things. The data TL released covers ~20 days (2 Nov - 21 Nov 2009) but they would also have that same data for all periods of the year. But I do think that it should be checked whether the bus drivers were using their terminals correctly to record patronage properly.
There is no silver bullet... but there is silver buckshot.
Never argue with an idiot. They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

ozbob

#210
Some photographs today ..





















Photographs R Dow 14th December 2010
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mufreight

#211
Quote from: Golliwog on December 14, 2010, 18:31:19 PM
Quote
Assuming that the figure given by Ms Stannard related to the 505 route substitution up until 3pm in the afternoon the bus service that the Flexilink has replaced would have run some 10 inbound services and 9 outbound and based upon a physical count of passengers on the previous Monday on that route which averaged some 7+ per service would have carried some 133 passengers.

A dubious assumption I would think. I would think it would be across the board for flexilink. Also, taking an average across an entire day and applying it to all services until 3pm is kinda dodgey. No matter how you look at it buses record higher patronage during the peaks which raises the average. By 3pm you havn't yet had the evening peak which would drop your figure of 133 during the day a bit. Also you take a one week sample (you were taking the physical count done by the Ipswich citizen?) which would not be statistically significant in the scheme of things. The data TL released covers ~20 days (2 Nov - 21 Nov 2009) but they would also have that same data for all periods of the year. But I do think that it should be checked whether the bus drivers were using their terminals correctly to record patronage properly.
Sorry Golliwog but the figures that I used came from not one but three different persons doing a count over three weeks and the average was taken from their figures to 3pm not their average for the full day which with the pm peak services rose to an average of 10+ without allowing for intermediate pickups and setdowns on some services which would have further inflated the figures.
I would think that the figures from these counts would hold more credibility than those figures that have been massarged by Translink number crunchers.
One glaring gap in their figures is the count of passengers using a paper ticket making a continuation of journey who are not included in the count for their continuation.

#Metro

#212
Can't they get a bigger magnetic sign with the TL logo and just stick it to the side of the big sliding door or put something big and obvious in the window!

You have to walk right up to it to know that its flexilink. Paint the kerb green and blue, put a big sign up on that pole!

Camouflaged services don't help patronage! Another reason why fixed stops should be retained.


A map stuck to the pole with each of the roam zones shown as a picture would help too. I went to Ipswich, how would I know where these suburbs are?
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Golliwog

Quote from: mufreight on December 14, 2010, 19:07:49 PM
Sorry Golliwog but the figures that I used came from not one but three different persons doing a count over three weeks and the average was taken from their figures to 3pm not their average for the full day which with the pm peak services rose to an average of 10+ without allowing for intermediate pickups and setdowns on some services which would have further inflated the figures.
I would think that the figures from these counts would hold more credibility than those figures that have been massarged by Translink number crunchers.
One glaring gap in their figures is the count of passengers using a paper ticket making a continuation of journey who are not included in the count for their continuation.

Ok, well I didn't know there were any figures other than either the TL ones and the ones from the guy mentioned in the paper.

As I understand the TL figures, there is not fault on their behalf, and they aren't "massarged" either. Its the data from the drivers box, which would include continuation of paper tickets, provided the driver has hit the count button to count them on. I don't see how the count button not being hit could be blamed on TL.
There is no silver bullet... but there is silver buckshot.
Never argue with an idiot. They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Stillwater


From Tramtrain: "Can't they get a bigger magnetic sign with the TL logo and just stick it to the side of the big sliding door or put something big and obvious in the window!  You have to walk right up to it to know that its flexilink. Paint the kerb green and blue, put a big sign up on that pole!

Camouflaged services don't help patronage! Another reason why fixed stops should be retained.  A map stuck to the pole with each of the roam zones shown as a picture would help too. I went to Ipswich, how would I know where these suburbs are?"

There are different logos used for Flexilink, depending on the region.  There should be one uniform logo across SEQ.  And yes, magnetic signs that can be removed when the FlexiLink taxi becomes a normal taxi again.

FlexiLink logo on the poles at busstops.  I would even paint the road surface with a big FlexiLink name/logo.

justanotheruser

Quote from: mufreight on December 14, 2010, 19:07:49 PM
Quote from: Golliwog on December 14, 2010, 18:31:19 PM
Quote
Assuming that the figure given by Ms Stannard related to the 505 route substitution up until 3pm in the afternoon the bus service that the Flexilink has replaced would have run some 10 inbound services and 9 outbound and based upon a physical count of passengers on the previous Monday on that route which averaged some 7+ per service would have carried some 133 passengers.

A dubious assumption I would think. I would think it would be across the board for flexilink. Also, taking an average across an entire day and applying it to all services until 3pm is kinda dodgey. No matter how you look at it buses record higher patronage during the peaks which raises the average. By 3pm you havn't yet had the evening peak which would drop your figure of 133 during the day a bit. Also you take a one week sample (you were taking the physical count done by the Ipswich citizen?) which would not be statistically significant in the scheme of things. The data TL released covers ~20 days (2 Nov - 21 Nov 2009) but they would also have that same data for all periods of the year. But I do think that it should be checked whether the bus drivers were using their terminals correctly to record patronage properly.
Sorry Golliwog but the figures that I used came from not one but three different persons doing a count over three weeks and the average was taken from their figures to 3pm not their average for the full day which with the pm peak services rose to an average of 10+ without allowing for intermediate pickups and setdowns on some services which would have further inflated the figures.
I would think that the figures from these counts would hold more credibility than those figures that have been massarged by Translink number crunchers.
One glaring gap in their figures is the count of passengers using a paper ticket making a continuation of journey who are not included in the count for their continuation.
you still have not addressed the suggestion that the figures would most likely be acroos all flexilink services in ipswich not just one service

justanotheruser

Quote from: STB on December 13, 2010, 20:37:02 PM
In terms of the Flexilink services, it was hard to determine which taxi was just an ordinary taxi waiting for a fare and a Flexilink taxi.  The taxis that were there was one MaxiTaxi, and two standard taxies.
Well this should be easy to figure out as the flexilink taxis are marked flexilink. There is also a sign on the dashboard stating which area it is going to. Ok perhaps they could do more to show where it leaves from but if your looking for a maxi taxi then why wouldn't one go to a maxi taxi to check. If your waiting to be picked up you can easily flag the taxi and if it turns out to be the wrong one just say oops my mistake sorry



Quote from: STB on December 13, 2010, 20:37:02 PM
In terms of TL staff, there were two TL staff members (both appeared that they had come from the marketing group) and according to a few passengers had no idea on the Ipswich area.  They stuck around the railway station entrance instead of coming down to the bus stops which I thought was a little inappropriate.
I have noticed them at both the train station and at the bus stops. Seems like they are mixing it up a bit to try and get as many people as possible.

somebody

Quote from: mufreight on December 14, 2010, 18:13:01 PM
On the basis of this result the Senior management from Translink and the intransegent Transport Minister Nolan should be writing their resignations and empting their desks.
I think that's a bit of an over reaction.

mufreight

Quote from comment by justanotheruser.

you still have not addressed the suggestion that the figures would most likely be acroos all flexilink services in ipswich not just one service

Ok there are three Flexilink services operated in the Ipswich area.

The Flexilink service that has replaced the 505 route coverage has an extended coverage beyond that previously covered by the 505 bus route that it has replaced which should have given an increased usage from this additional area.

If the figure given was for all three Flexilink services, the other two of which were carrying observed loadings similar to the 505 route upon which my figures have been based then Flexilink has been an even more abmismal failure and the usage figure then shrinks to only 25% of the previous bus service patronage and thus makes the Translink assertion of 100 patrons using Flexilink as a success even more suspect as this would now mean that where with the buses operating there would have been some 400 persons carried there has now only been 100, this 300 people have been forced to either use alternative transport (cars) or in the case of many of the elderley have been isolated and their access to independent mobility has been destroyed, an exercise in social engineering by Translink.


For Translink to espouse this result as a success strengrthens argument that it is the intention of Translink and the Minister to deter the local public transport usage to justify their withdrawal of services.

Thankyou, justanotheruser for rasing your valid point which if accurate further justifies the retention of the bus services, any system of public transport that undergoes a 75% drop in patronage when it is suposedly exists to encourage public transport usage is in big trouble having completely lost the plot.


ozbob

See feedback on the Queensland Times web site--> http://www.qt.com.au/story/2010/12/14/translink-bus-transport-at-bell-street-protest/

A lot of unhappy citizens.

I heard from a citizen today who at short notice attempted to book a flex-link service to attend a hospital appointment arranged late yesterday, only to be told that hours for booking are between 10am and 3pm.  He then thought well, according to the Minister's statement a cab will be doing the former 505 timetabled runs till Christmas (the service I travelled on yesterday) so he waited at the bus stop to make the connection for the train.  A cab didn't show up.  On further enquiry to TransLink he was informed a cab wasn't booked to do the run!

He did attempt to call a cab but it arrived after 35 minutes which meant he was unable to make the appointment.  Another appointment  has been scheduled for next year.  

I think the viewpoint of the affected citizens is a valid one.  
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#Metro

Quote
I heard from a citizen today who at short notice attempted to book a flex-link service to attend a hospital appointment arranged late yesterday, only to be told that hours for booking are between 10am and 3pm.  He then thought well, according to the Minister's statement a cab will be doing the former 505 timetabled runs till Christmas (the service I travelled on yesterday) so he waited at the bus stop to make the connection for the train.  A cab didn't show up.  On further enquiry to TransLink he was informed a cab wasn't booked to do the run!

FlexiLink must be flexible! This booking thing is not good! You should be able to ring up a taxi and have one come to you within 30 minutes.
You should be able to call the Translink 12 12 30 number, not a special number
You should be able to ring the call centre to book a seat at anytime of the day or night

The bus stops are useful, people will walk to them and they can be retained as secondary collection points.
The taxi doesn't need to stop at those points if nobody requests it of course.
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justanotheruser

Quote from: mufreight on December 15, 2010, 09:44:03 AM

Ok there are three Flexilink services operated in the Ipswich area.
Isn't it 4 services? I saw a map today and it had roam zones A-D on it? That would make your figures wrong but strngthen your argument ;)

Quote from: mufreight on December 15, 2010, 09:44:03 AM
The Flexilink service that has replaced the 505 route coverage has an extended coverage beyond that previously covered by the 505 bus route that it has replaced which should have given an increased usage from this additional area.

If the figure given was for all three Flexilink services, the other two of which were carrying observed loadings similar to the 505 route upon which my figures have been based then Flexilink has been an even more abmismal failure and the usage figure then shrinks to only 25% of the previous bus service patronage and thus makes the Translink assertion of 100 patrons using Flexilink as a success even more suspect as this would now mean that where with the buses operating there would have been some 400 persons carried there has now only been 100, this 300 people have been forced to either use alternative transport (cars) or in the case of many of the elderley have been isolated and their access to independent mobility has been destroyed, an exercise in social engineering by Translink.


For Translink to espouse this result as a success strengrthens argument that it is the intention of Translink and the Minister to deter the local public transport usage to justify their withdrawal of services.

Thankyou, justanotheruser for rasing your valid point which if accurate further justifies the retention of the bus services, any system of public transport that undergoes a 75% drop in patronage when it is suposedly exists to encourage public transport usage is in big trouble having completely lost the plot.


Thanks for addressing that.

Although I must say that I reckon alot of those people have not been forced to use cars. They have chosen to use cars. yes there may be people without a phone but have a car but generally more likely to be people without phone AND without car. Those who drive and have a phone have not been forced to do use their cars. They simply have not given flexilink a go. Remember we are talking about first day usage here. If they used flexilink the first day then used cars then that would be a indicator of failure.

justanotheruser

Came across a problem today.
Should bus drivers follow their run sheets or what the timetables say?   Translink have previously said it is impossible for the two to be different as they are created from the same database. However when travelling on the 503 today the driver decided to look at the run sheet (for the first time) and exclaimed I'm not supposed to stop at the hospital!  However the timetables and the signs at the bus stops (which are new signs) all say the 503 stops at the hospital. the driver showed good common sense and went via the hospital anyway.

Also with the 503 on the outboud (Riverlink to bremer tafe) the buses are unable to display that they go to the tafe or bundamba. So they still show Booval 503. The only way the y can get bundamba on the sign is to have the wrong run number. Now many people (especially clients I work with) will look at the run number so I think it is important to have correct run number but surely they could have fixed the destination.

mufreight

There is unnecessary confushion being created with the destinations displayed on the 515 route services all are carrying the same destination into the Bell Street stop, (Ipswich CBD)
It would be less confusing were they to carry an end point destination from the terminus they depart from for their full journey.
A 515 service departing Yamanto that was running through to Brassall would carry a Brassall destination as would a Brassall service originating from the University, likewise services departing Brassall that ran through to Yamanto would carry a Yamanto destination for their full journey and University services would carry a University destination.
All services are routed through Riverlink so there is no need for the via Riverlink included in the destination, this would eliminate the confusion created by 515 route services all carrying the via Riverlink when in fact only the 515 services to Brassall run through Riverlink after departing Bell Street, the 515 services to the University and to Yamanto having already run through Riverlink en route to Bell Street.
A minor point but one that will reduce confusion, extra work for the drivers they will have to change the destination at the terminus before they turn back, like press two or three buttons.

ozbob

#224
From the Queensland Times click here!

Pisasale to host bus meeting

QuotePisasale to host bus meeting

Zane Jackson | 16th December 2010

IPSWICH Mayor Paul Pisasale will host a seniors forum for residents in the newly-established FlexiLink zones at Ipswich Civic Centre at 10am this Friday.

Transport Minister and Ipswich MP Rachel Nolan will also be at the meeting to hear feedback on the new service direct from its users.

FlexiLink is a taxi service that started this week to replace three scrapped Ipswich bus routes - the 505, 510 and 523.

Note:  at this time this article is significantly different from the print version.

Herewith print version:

From Queensland Times 17th December 2010 page 13

Mayor will meet with disgruntled passengers



There are lot of letters in the QT as well, highlighting the general concerns with the bus and flexi-link arrangements.
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ozbob

From the Queensland Times click here!

Passengers complain about delays

QuotePassengers complain about delays

Zane Jackson | 18th December 2010

MORE changes could be on the cards for the new FlexiLink taxi service after Ipswich seniors voiced their frustrations at the system at a meeting yesterday.

A large crowd turned out to a seniors forum to give their opinion to Mayor Paul Pisasale and Federal member for transport Rachel Nolan regarding the local bus service changes.

MORE changes could be on the cards for the new FlexiLink taxi service after Ipswich seniors voiced their frustrations at the system at a meeting yesterday.

Facilitated by Mayor Paul Pisasale, the meeting saw about 30 pensioners give Ipswich MP and Transport Minister Rachel Nolan their feedback on the service.

No positive feedback was given during the two hour meeting with the group at the Ipswich Civic Centre tearing into FlexiLink with plenty of complaints.

Ms Nolan listened to the criticisms, including the long delays on the booking phone number, the coverage of the taxi zones and the costs of making repeated calls to the service.

She then told the group she would look to make changes to the system as a result, but said the decision to scrap the three bus routes FlexiLink replaces was still the right one.

"I'm really worried to hear that you ring up and wait a long time and the place that your calls are going too isn't working very well – that's not how it's intended to work," she said.

"I will do two things in response – the first is I will meet with Yellow Cabs again... I will ensure the number you are ringing is better staffed so that people get a proper service.

"I intend to provide a free call number because people have complained about the costs, particularly from mobile phones."

Cr Pisasale, who helped run the meeting, said it was important that Ipswich's residents should not be disadvantaged by any changes to public transport.

He said Ipswich's pensioners should not be left behind.

Michelle Radunz, whose husband Ray Radunz conducted a week long count of one axed bus route that revealed higher patron numbers than TransLink suggested, said they were disappointed with the meeting.

"We feel like it was PR stunt for the Minister," Mrs Radunz said.

Other residents said that they had chosen houses or retirement homes to live in specifically because at the time of purchase they were near one of the three axed bus routes.

FlexiLink and a raft of changes to Ipswich's bus timetables came into effect on Monday.

I was not at this meeting, but it would appear to be an excellent summary of the meeting.

The concerns that people have, particularly the fact that they choose certain locations to live based on the public transport availability is an very important consideration.  I am very disappointed Ipswich Council has not seen fit to come up with a subsidy to reintroduce a bus to Tivoli and Moores Pocket.  Flexi-Link is not that satisfactory for many.  Fascinating that a free call number might be put in place, remember our calls for the same for go card users forced to use mobiles was ignored.
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ozbob

Correspondence sent to all Ipswich City Councillors:

18th December 2010

Dear Councillors,

I am writing to you as a concerned rate payer of Ipswich City.

The situation with the withdrawal of the buses, namely the  505, 510 and 523 routes  is causing me a lot of concern.

I think there is a solution.  As is the practice in south east Queensland by a number of councils, the Ipswich City Council should in part subsidise the the return of the axed bus services on a 'lose or use it' basis for a 6 to 9 month trial.

I think this would be in the community's best interests and would allow for proper patronage levels to stabilise with a properly reconstructed bus timetable.

It would also allow Flexi-Link to be properly sorted out should that become necessary again in the longer term.

Best wishes

Robert

Robert Dow
Darra Qld 4076

(I own residential property in Goodna).

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#Metro

QuoteFederal member for transport Rachel Nolan regarding the local bus service changes.

I see Ms Nolan has moved up in the world! Federal member for Transport!  :D
Would be nice to see more of a PT focus up at the top level... :is-
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justanotheruser

Quote from: ozbob on December 18, 2010, 03:04:52 AM


"I intend to provide a free call number because people have complained about the costs, particularly from mobile phones."
Should someone mention to the minister that free call numbers are not actually free when calling from a mobile phone!  It might be different if you own a telstra mobile as telstra own 1800 numbers and may want to make their mobiles look more attractive.

other networks call costs for 1800 numbers
Virgin mobile 16.5 cents per 30 seconds plus 25 cents call connection
vodafone/3   90 cents per minute plus 35 cents flagfall
Optus   could not easily find but as optus owns virgin mobile I assume it would be similar cost to virgin mobile
AAPT   11 cents per 30 seconds no flagfall
Telstra could not find

justanotheruser

Quote from: justanotheruser on December 15, 2010, 17:42:50 PM
Also with the 503 on the outboud (Riverlink to bremer tafe) the buses are unable to display that they go to the tafe or bundamba. So they still show Booval 503. The only way the y can get bundamba on the sign is to have the wrong run number. Now many people (especially clients I work with) will look at the run number so I think it is important to have correct run number but surely they could have fixed the destination.
This seems to have been fixed now

STB

I've just noticed that there haven't been any more patronage reports for the Western Region service change to justify the removal of routes 505, 510 and 523.  Perhaps TransLink needs a nudge?

somebody

Quote from: STB on December 20, 2010, 10:53:33 AM
I've just noticed that there haven't been any more patronage reports for the Western Region service change to justify the removal of routes 505, 510 and 523.  Perhaps TransLink needs a nudge?
What else could they say that they haven't already?  Do you mean patronage of the Flexilink service?

STB

No, the patronage reports for routes 505, 510 and 523 before they were canned.  They have posted up the patronage report for November 2009 and have stated that more are coming soon on the service change page.  Yet, no more has been uploaded.

mufreight

The figures from Translink have more holes in them than a flyscreen and hold as much credibility as a sive holds water.
There are limits as to how far one can fudge the figures to support an argument and Translink has exceeded both that limit anf the Translink use by date.

STB

I don't think the figures are 'fudged'.  They are simply what the ticketing data, which is dependant on the drivers doing the right thing and hitting the count button when there are already ticketed passengers and not letting passengers on for free, for whatever reason.

The Nov 2009 figures look quite reasonable to me at least in the pattern of the patronage throughout the day.  Although I would like to know what happens to those AM peak passenger spike, where you would expect a PM passenger spike, where everyone is coming home, making their return trip.

mufreight

If the commuter is using a paper ticket with a continuation of journey the Translink methodology does not count that leg of their journey, also with the lack of reliability of the onboard readers from when the Go Card was first introduced up until about mid 2010 when their reliability improved although there is still a relatively high card reader failure rate, figures collected up until mid 2010 would therefore be less than accurate and no basis for a restructure of services.
Technology is great (when it works with a 100% reliability) but is no substitute for a physical count, estimated rail commuter figures were proven to be out by an unaceptable percentage as has been proven by the differences in the passenger counts at the gated city stations.

Golliwog

mufreight, on a bus, the paper ticket continuation thing would be counted, the driver has a count button to press everytime a paper ticket holder boards the bus with a valid ticket. I would concede the card reader failure point however.

From my understanding, the difference in rail commuter figures which changed when stations became gated was IMO more to do with the fact that passengers were evading their fares. I know people who would just flash any old ticket/reciept at the guy standing next to the gate and would 99% of the time get through.
There is no silver bullet... but there is silver buckshot.
Never argue with an idiot. They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

mufreight

 That might be the theory but from personal observation around Ipswich in practice nine times out of ten the driver who is otherwise occupied selling a ticket to another passenger or answering questions as to bus route, timetable, discussing the cricket results or the failures of Translink or the Local Minister for Transport to provide services does not bother to count the passengers boarding with paper tickets.
Facts beat spin and b/s every time

STB

Whether it's reliable or not, that data that TL posted IS from the ticketing data that has come in.  It is not spin!  It's raw data from the various ticketing systems, reliable or not.  Whether you accept it as the actual data is up to you though.  How do I recognise it's actual data? I spent years looking at this sort of data.

Rather than arguing on whether the ticketing data is spin or not, what we really should be pushing is more ticketing data to be released as has been promised on the TL website.

justanotheruser

#239
Quote from: mufreight on December 14, 2010, 19:07:49 PM
Quote from: Golliwog on December 14, 2010, 18:31:19 PM
Quote
Assuming that the figure given by Ms Stannard related to the 505 route substitution up until 3pm in the afternoon the bus service that the Flexilink has replaced would have run some 10 inbound services and 9 outbound and based upon a physical count of passengers on the previous Monday on that route which averaged some 7+ per service would have carried some 133 passengers.

A dubious assumption I would think. I would think it would be across the board for flexilink. Also, taking an average across an entire day and applying it to all services until 3pm is kinda dodgey. No matter how you look at it buses record higher patronage during the peaks which raises the average. By 3pm you havn't yet had the evening peak which would drop your figure of 133 during the day a bit. Also you take a one week sample (you were taking the physical count done by the Ipswich citizen?) which would not be statistically significant in the scheme of things. The data TL released covers ~20 days (2 Nov - 21 Nov 2009) but they would also have that same data for all periods of the year. But I do think that it should be checked whether the bus drivers were using their terminals correctly to record patronage properly.
Sorry Golliwog but the figures that I used came from not one but three different persons doing a count over three weeks and the average was taken from their figures to 3pm not their average for the full day which with the pm peak services rose to an average of 10+ without allowing for intermediate pickups and setdowns on some services which would have further inflated the figures.
I would think that the figures from these counts would hold more credibility than those figures that have been massarged by Translink number crunchers.
One glaring gap in their figures is the count of passengers using a paper ticket making a continuation of journey who are not included in the count for their continuation.
Just had a thought. You claim translink fudge the figures to suit themselves. So what guarantees can you give that these three people did not fudge the figures. It wouldn't be hard to coordinate fudging the figures amongst a group. And just in case I will not accept a I know them personally argument as I don't know them or you and therefore am not prepared to take your word for it. After all they do have something to gain by fudging the figures after all.


Quote from: mufreight on December 21, 2010, 07:43:12 AM
That might be the theory but from personal observation around Ipswich in practice nine times out of ten the driver who is otherwise occupied selling a ticket to another passenger or answering questions as to bus route, timetable, discussing the cricket results or the failures of Translink or the Local Minister for Transport to provide services does not bother to count the passengers boarding with paper tickets.
Facts beat spin and b/s every time
you don't seem to get it though. That is not a failure of translink that is a failure of the bus drivers. I have seen drivers talking to someone and when finished called an individual to the front and asked why they did not present their ticket. I have seen that often enough on buses in QLD and NSW to say it is posible to do. So it is the drivers who are at fault. I also know from personal experience that drivers have refused to activate the card reader therefore making it imposible to touch on. So blame the appropiate people rather than accusing translink of fudging the figures with no proof.

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